From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #173 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, June 17 2003 Volume 03 : Number 173 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] now we know... ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] now we know... ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] iPod questions [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] iPod questions [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Check's in the Mail ["Aaron Milenski" ] [loud-fans] Black Lipstick? (ns) [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Black Lipstick? (ns) [Jenny Grover ] [loud-fans] iPod questions (actually cd database questions) [Steve Holteb] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:21:10 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] now we know... oh for crying out loud, get the boy a tricycle. and some pants, while you're at it. brianna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" To: "such a stem" Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:03 AM Subject: [loud-fans] now we know... > ..what kind of idiot uses a Segway: . > > Didn't the manufacturers claim it was like a giant Weeble - would wobble, > wouldn't fall down? Guess not. > > ..Jeff > > J e f f r e y N o r m a n > The Architectural Dance Society > www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html > :: When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat > :: everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum > :: temporo-spatial anomaly. > :: --Crow T. Maslow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:21:31 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] now we know... or maybe a Sparrow. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" To: "such a stem" Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:03 AM Subject: [loud-fans] now we know... > ..what kind of idiot uses a Segway: . > > Didn't the manufacturers claim it was like a giant Weeble - would wobble, > wouldn't fall down? Guess not. > > ..Jeff > > J e f f r e y N o r m a n > The Architectural Dance Society > www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html > :: When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat > :: everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum > :: temporo-spatial anomaly. > :: --Crow T. Maslow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:51:38 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] iPod questions Quoting dmw : > On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Jenny Grover wrote: > > discs that count down backwards on my computer don't do so on the > > stereo. I've never heard of that one. As someone said, yes, you can set most players to display either time elapsed or time remaining - but discs that tell the player which to prefer? I'm clueless... I was thinking there might be some readable info on the disc > > itself that my computer CD player just can't read right. Is this a > > possible explanation? > > nope, and the reason why is the same as the answer to the (very > reasonable) question of why album & title info can't be included on the > disc itself -- there's nothing to do that defined in the compact disc > standard. (there is a compact disc + text standard, but few, if any > consumer devices have been made that support it, and most mastering > software isn't set up to include it) I guess I should have been more specific in my "why don't they...?" query: I did know that including text isn't part of the CD standard. But then again, neither is copy "protection," or hiding music in the pregap before track 1... A better way to have put the question is this: given that people have been using computers to play CDs for several years now, and that for many of those people, the computer's their primary or sole CD player, I was surprised the industry hadn't developed a standard (dmw says they have, apparently) for including such info on CDs, and that more home CD players don't incorporate that feature. I would think the industry would have to go first - but unless there's some technical reason not to (aside from changing the standard - which I gather is part of the copyright held by Philips (?) on the descriptor "compact disc"?), you'd think people would welcome the ability to have a home CD player whose display tells you the song title and artist as well as just the usual time display. > the player that's built into recent versions of windows uses some other > database than freedb or cddb; i'm not sure what it is (ms proprietary?) > but it was very unaware of anything i listened to, even things i thought > were pretty mainstream. it told me "this album was not found on the > internet" almost one hundred percent of the time until i disabled its > query function. Hopefully it will remain as dysfunctional - and prevent MS from establishing yet another monopolistic thralldom. Media Jukebox (got the name right this time!) refers to something called "YADB"; I've never investigated to see what that is. One cool thing about freedb: you can go to the site and look up info about a CD. This is especially convenient if you're putting together a mix CD and want a relatively quick way to check, say, track lengths (other than feeding all the discs into your player consecutively). Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] iPod questions > Media Jukebox (got the name right this time!) refers to something called > "YADB"; I've never investigated to see what that is. One cool thing about You probably have the version of Jukebox that allows you to use both CDDB and YADB. If you update your version, or upgrade to media center (which I haven't done), then you can only YADB. They removed support for CDDB. And no, Dana, Macs don't have it better. You just need to switch to Jukebox, which I definitely like better than iTunes. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:47:17 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] iPod questions At 04:50 PM 6/15/2003 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >And Miles may be interested in knowing - if Love and Rockets' _Express_ was >among the titles lost in that Great CD Theft some years back - that it's now >available at eMusic. Although I don't think it's out of print or anything... It wasn't one of the ones stolen, or else I replaced it pretty quickly, as I can't remember being without it. Plus the first four L&R albums have all been remastered and reissued over the last year or so. Regardless, thanks for the heads-up! On the other hand, anyone got a way to ID the remastered EARTH SUN MOON? There's no sticker saying "now remastered!" and there's no bonus tracks, so I have no idea how I'm supposed to make sure I'd be purchasing the new one. Interesting to read in David J's liner notes to SORTED! (the new L&R best-of -- fans should get the DVD too, if not just for the videos, for the Bubblemen tracks they've tacked on to it!) how the band apparently thought of their songs in terms of colors. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Toren Subject: [loud-fans] Was: iPod questions Now: Tick-Infested Deer - - --- Gil Ray wrote: > I'm a tick-infested deer caught in the headlights. seeing is believing http://www.angrylambie.com/tick%20infested%20deer.htm :-) RT ===== "Monotheistic religion has always brought out the best in us humans; thank you so much for the idea of a vengeful supernatural entity who rewards people in the afterlife! That shit makes a lot of sense!" http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war17.html http://www.angrylambie.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:40:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was: iPod questions Now: Tick-Infested Deer That's it! Amazing!!!! Gil - --- Robert Toren wrote: > - --- Gil Ray wrote: > > I'm a tick-infested deer caught in the headlights. > > seeing is believing > > http://www.angrylambie.com/tick%20infested%20deer.htm > :-) > RT > > ===== > > "Monotheistic religion has always brought out the > best in us humans; thank you so much for the idea of > a vengeful supernatural entity who rewards people in > the afterlife! That shit makes a lot of sense!" > http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war17.html > > http://www.angrylambie.com > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:28:05 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was: iPod questions Now: Tick-Infested Deer man, that's the funniest thing i've seen all week. oh wait, it's monday ... but it will still be the funniest thing i've seen all week on firday, i bet, or else it's gonna be a hellafunny week. On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Gil Ray wrote: > That's it! Amazing!!!! > Gil > --- Robert Toren wrote: > > - --- Gil Ray wrote: > > > I'm a tick-infested deer caught in the headlights. > > > > seeing is believing > > > > > http://www.angrylambie.com/tick%20infested%20deer.htm > > :-) > > RT > > > > ===== > > > > "Monotheistic religion has always brought out the > > best in us humans; thank you so much for the idea of > > a vengeful supernatural entity who rewards people in > > the afterlife! That shit makes a lot of sense!" > > http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war17.html > > > > http://www.angrylambie.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:26:52 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was: iPod questions Now: Tick-Infested Deer Robert Toren on 6/16/2003 3:22:53 AM wrote: > - --- Gil Ray wrote: > > I'm a tick-infested deer caught in the headlights. > > seeing is believing > http://www.angrylambie.com/tick%20infested%20deer.htm Man, I'm sorry, but they sure grow them deer ugly out there in California (ticks or no). What are y'all feeding 'em? Or maybe I'm just used to Colorado deer... Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:36:35 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: [loud-fans] Check's in the Mail If you were one of the people who took part in the class action lawsuit against the record industry for price gouging -- you may have a check coming in the mail. Looks like the total amount of the settlement is less than a slap in the wrist, though. http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/06/16/us.cdsettle.ap/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:41:08 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Check's in the Mail >If you were one of the people who took part in the class action lawsuit >against the record industry for price gouging -- you may have a check >coming in the mail. > >Looks like the total amount of the settlement is less than a slap in the >wrist, though. I say we all start a pool (each of us contribute the $13) as to how long this will take for us to get the checks... No, not really. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:09:38 -0700 From: "Michael Zwirn" Subject: [loud-fans] CD settlement My favorite part is, "Of the total settlement, $75.7 million would be distributed in the form of 5.6 million music CDs sent to libraries and schools throughout the nation." Can you see the millions of cut-out Boyz II Men and Manilow and Alabama CDs that will be inflicted on the libraries and schools throughout the nation? By the way, this allows them to estimate the value of each of these junked CDs as $13.51 -- almost the exact amount that they'd otherwise have to mail to Joe and Jane Consumer. - ------ Michael Zwirn, michael@zwirn.com http://zwirn.com (t) 503-232-8919 (c) 503-887-9800 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:00:13 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] Black Lipstick? (ns) I've been listening to their ep "The Four Kingdoms of Black Lipstick" (from eMusic) today and liking it a lot. Went to look for more info and realized that I had just read a slightly-better-than-lukewarm pitchforkmedia review of their new album "Converted Thieves." A lot of the review makes sense, but the description of the lead vocalist doesn't jibe with what I'm hearing, which sounds just about exactly like Tom Verlaine trying to sing like Steve Malkmus. Wondering if anyone has heard both the album and the ep, and if they're of a piece. Doug??? Despite being an official lyric-ignorer, I'm finding some great lines on the ep. - --dana np: Jennifer Gentle live on WFMU http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/7822 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:23:50 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Black Lipstick? (ns) dana-boy@juno.com wrote: >I've been listening to their ep "The Four Kingdoms of Black Lipstick" >(from eMusic) today and liking it a lot. > Hmm... anyone else finding the eMusic search engine totally non-functional right now? Everything I put in it (even stuff I know is there is abundance) comes up "no results found." Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:29:15 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Black Lipstick? (ns) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 dana-boy@juno.com wrote: > I've been listening to their ep "The Four Kingdoms of Black Lipstick" > (from eMusic) today and liking it a lot. Went to look for more info and > realized that I had just read a slightly-better-than-lukewarm > pitchforkmedia review of their new album "Converted Thieves." A lot of > the review makes sense, but the description of the lead vocalist doesn't > jibe with what I'm hearing, which sounds just about exactly like Tom > Verlaine trying to sing like Steve Malkmus. Wondering if anyone has > heard both the album and the ep, and if they're of a piece. Doug??? there are two guys who trade lead vox, i think, and those aren't the words i'd've chosen, but yeah, pretty much. i think the new record is better than "four kingdoms of..." if i were making a best of 2003 list so far (oh wait, i just did...) it'd be on there. > Despite being an official lyric-ignorer, I'm finding some great lines on > the ep. i'd agree with that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:57:11 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] iPod questions (actually cd database questions) > > discs that count down backwards on my computer don't do so on the > > stereo. > I've never heard of that one. As someone said, yes, you can set most > players to display either time elapsed or time remaining - but discs > that tell the player which to prefer? I'm clueless... cddb (and freedb, they're essentially commercial and free versions of the same database) is based entirely on user contributions, so I suspect if the person who submitted the information was using "time remaining", that's the way the track data is submitted to the database. The xmcd files at freedb.org are stored with offsets instead of track times, but some of the databases store track times which are dependent on the settings of the submitting program. Some discs at cddb are stored with total remaining time, so the first track has a time of 43:25, the second track has a time of 39:17, etc.. > I would think the industry would have to go first - but unless there's > some technical reason not to (aside from changing the standard - which > I gather is part of the copyright held by Philips (?) on the descriptor > "compact disc"?), you'd think people would welcome the ability to have > a home CD player whose display tells you the song title and > artist as well as just the usual time display. I think the best way to do this isn't by encoding the data on the CD itself, but by allowing the home CD player to the same database lookup that the computer player uses (cddb, freedb, whatever). An http-enabled CD player (I don't know if there is such a thing yet) could show the track and artist data for all CDs, not just the CDs that have the text specially encoded. Why don't they just do it that way? dmw: > > the player that's built into recent versions of windows uses some other > > database than freedb or cddb; i'm not sure what it is (ms proprietary?) > > but it was very unaware of anything i listened to, even things i thought > > were pretty mainstream. it told me "this album was not found on the > > internet" almost one hundred percent of the time until i disabled its > > query function. > Hopefully it will remain as dysfunctional - and prevent MS from > establishing yet another monopolistic thralldom I think Microsoft's Windows Media Player (is that the player in question?) uses a special CD database provided by AMG, so it isn't MS-proprietary, but there are still tons of CDs that aren't on AMG. One benefit of having a database that's "owned" by one company, is that the data should be more valid, but I've found nearly as many errors at allmusic.com as I've found at freedb.org. I think the "best" CD database, content-wise is musicbrainz (formerly cdindex). They're another open alternative to cddb where all submissions are validated and verified by a team of moderators, so there's a lot less junk in their database than there is on freedb. Steve ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #173 *******************************