From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #75 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, March 14 2003 Volume 03 : Number 075 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Re: Rock Writing [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing ["Aaron Milenski" ] [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories [Robert Toren ] Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories [Stewart Mason ] Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories [Stewart Mason ] Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] EC on DL [Gil Ray ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:07:34 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Rock Writing Segal is a bit off in talking about Christgau abusing "vocabulary" - Christgau's main problem is he completely and utterly tortures syntax and structure. I rather suspect that part of his deanness is that no one dare edit him: someone needs to say, "look, it actually is possible and desirable sometimes to say something simply and directly." >>>>>>>>>>>> Amen. Too bad Segal was so busy trying to take Christgau down that he didn't write/speak the above paragraph. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:53:00 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing >Segal is a bit off in talking about Christgau abusing "vocabulary" - >Christgau's main problem is he completely and utterly tortures syntax and >structure. Actually, the toef****r's main problem is that he completely dismisses a lot of music unfairly and, even worse, dismisses the taste of those who like it. That said, I did discover a lot of really great stuff because of him, though I suspect that if anyone else had written books as comprehensive as his, those books would have helped me discovere equally as many cool records. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 07:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Toren Subject: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories From: Gil Ray - - --- Roger Winston wrote: > Jenny Grover on 3/12/2003 1:12:11 PM wrote: > > > And what would be wrong with having one's life > changed by a Dead Kennedy's concert? > I wish I could give away a life changing memory of a > DK show I saw that Jello had all of his clothes torn off, I wish that, at my one and only Dead Kennedy's concert, I hadn't been clinging to front center stage; at the climax of the last song, Jello stagedove over me and his boot smacked my head so hard I nearly passed out in the resulting moshing pile-on_ Wouldn't have been a problem if he'd been naked. RT ===== "Monotheistic religion has always brought out the best in us humans; thank you so much for the idea of a vengeful supernatural entity who rewards people in the afterlife! That shit makes a lot of sense!" http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war17.html http://www.angrylambie.com Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:06:41 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robert Toren wrote: > From: Gil Ray > - --- Roger Winston wrote: > > Jenny Grover on 3/12/2003 1:12:11 PM wrote: > > > > > And what would be wrong with having one's life > > changed by a Dead Kennedy's concert? > > > I wish I could give away a life changing memory of a > > DK show I saw that Jello had all of his clothes torn > off, > > I wish that, at my one and only Dead Kennedy's > concert, I hadn't been clinging to front center stage; > at the climax of the last song, Jello stagedove over > me and his boot smacked my head so hard I nearly > passed out in the resulting moshing pile-on_ > Wouldn't have been a problem if he'd been naked. > RT that's it -- i think i have to name my next band Naked Jello Head Kick. first ep to be titled "really not so bad" and follow-up album "essentially harmless." recording of "thank god, there are no combat boots on the feet" runs over-budget; stillborn at label; band braeks up in acrimony. well, that's the next three and a half years of my life planned out! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:56:42 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories I never actually saw the DKs live, but since Jello (like me) grew up in Boulder, I've run into him a couple of times: once as a junior high student hanging out on Pearl Street shortly after FRESH FRUIT FOR ROTTING VEGETABLES came out (I think we was mostly just surprised that my friend Doug and I were fans, but he was perfectly nice to us) and once about a dozen years later when I was living in New Mexico and dating a woman who lived in Boulder. She and I were in CU's Norlin Library talking to her boss there about a new internet project that they were implementing, and one of the secretaries popped in to say "Oh, Mary, your son Eric is here to take you to lunch." And there's Mr. Biafra! So he's nice to people who like his music and he takes his mom to lunch. How bad can the guy be? S NP: THIS IS ALL WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT LIVING -- Glossary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:46:35 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories BTW, my comment about having your life changed at a DK's concert shouldn't be taken to mean that I have any great dislike for Mr. B. I actually feel sorry for him: didn't he get his ankle intentionally broken by some ass at a concert a few years ago? I never found out all the details, but it sounded creepy. - --dana - ---------- Stewart Mason writes: I never actually saw the DKs live, but since Jello (like me) grew up in Boulder, I've run into him a couple of times: once as a junior high student hanging out on Pearl Street shortly after FRESH FRUIT FOR ROTTING VEGETABLES came out (I think we was mostly just surprised that my friend Doug and I were fans, but he was perfectly nice to us) and once about a dozen years later when I was living in New Mexico and dating a woman who lived in Boulder. She and I were in CU's Norlin Library talking to her boss there about a new internet project that they were implementing, and one of the secretaries popped in to say "Oh, Mary, your son Eric is here to take you to lunch." And there's Mr. Biafra! So he's nice to people who like his music and he takes his mom to lunch. How bad can the guy be? S NP: THIS IS ALL WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT LIVING -- Glossary ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:55:56 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories At 07:46 PM 3/13/03 +0000, dana-boy@juno.com wrote: >BTW, my comment about having your life changed at a DK's concert shouldn't >be taken to mean that I have any great dislike for Mr. B. I actually feel >sorry for him: didn't he get his ankle intentionally broken by some ass >at a concert a few years ago? I never found out all the details, but it >sounded creepy. He was beaten up by a group of self-righteous punk rock types at Gilman St. here in Berkeley in 1994, on the pretext that he was a "sell-out" and a "rich rock star." This low-rent Jacobin mentality has pretty much soured me on punk rock as anything but Puritanism with a more lenient dress code. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 38, verse 11 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:14:02 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories In a message dated 3/13/03 11:56:59 AM, mweber@library.berkeley.edu writes: << He was beaten up by a group of self-righteous punk rock types at Gilman St. here in Berkeley in 1994, on the pretext that he was a "sell-out" and a "rich rock star." This low-rent Jacobin mentality has pretty much soured me on punk rock as anything but Puritanism with a more lenient dress code. >> If it helps, Biafra's old bandmates seemed to have held the same opinion of Biafra. But then, so did a stuffy old court of law. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:19:44 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories At 03:14 PM 3/13/03 -0500, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 3/13/03 11:56:59 AM, mweber@library.berkeley.edu writes: > ><< He was beaten up by a group of self-righteous punk rock types at Gilman >St. >here in Berkeley in 1994, on the pretext that he was a "sell-out" and a >"rich rock star." This low-rent Jacobin mentality has pretty much soured >me on punk rock as anything but Puritanism with a more lenient dress code. >> > >If it helps, Biafra's old bandmates seemed to have held the same opinion of >Biafra. But then, so did a stuffy old court of law. My understanding of the case is that the other DKs wanted to license their music for commercial use and that Biafra wouldn't permit it, so they took him to court to try & prove that he didn't really write any of the music (just the lyrics). Of course, that's been 4 or 5 years now, so my memory might be playing tricks on me... Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 38, verse 11 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:23:41 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] joyless zipper (ns) Don't know if anyone will care, but as far as I can tell, something is up with the new Joy Zipper album "American Whip" which was supposed to come out in January. It never did, though it's gotten numerous great reviews. A promo copy is currently up to $36 on eBay. The David Holmes message board (he owns their UK record company) makes vague allusions to "problems." I.e. if you see a cheap promo, you might want to snatch it up. I'm feeling kind of dumb for not getting one when they were plentiful a few weeks ago. I do have a single from the album, "Ron," which contains one of the cutest videos ever. IMHO. Basically home movies of Vinnie and Tabitha having a day at the beach, which perfectly fits the vibe of their music. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:37:49 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories Quoting Matthew Weber : > He was beaten up by a group of self-righteous punk rock types at Gilman > St. > here in Berkeley in 1994, on the pretext that he was a "sell-out" and a > "rich rock star." This low-rent Jacobin mentality has pretty much soured > me on punk rock as anything but Puritanism with a more lenient dress > code. Hey, you're hurtin' my vocabularies' butt! Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:59:01 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories In a message dated 3/13/03 12:20:03 PM, mweber@library.berkeley.edu writes: << My understanding of the case is that the other DKs wanted to license their music for commercial use and that Biafra wouldn't permit it, so they took him to court to try & prove that he didn't really write any of the music (just the lyrics). Of course, that's been 4 or 5 years now, so my memory might be playing tricks on me... >> Promoting the back catalogue was one matter before the court. The jury also decided that Biafra owned his former bandmates over $200,000 in damages that included failing to pay royalties. Of course, Biafra needed the money to pay for his big house from which he could write about how there should be a cap on how much income people are allowed to learn...beginning, apparently, with other former members of the Dead Kennedys. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:04:14 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] how not to promote your band (ns) Oh, I meant to post this: http://www.13amp.tv/ This is Joy Zipper's label's website. IMHO, the worst label website ever. Designers take note. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:20:43 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Matthew Weber wrote: > He was beaten up by a group of self-righteous punk rock types at Gilman St. > here in Berkeley in 1994, on the pretext that he was a "sell-out" and a > "rich rock star." This low-rent Jacobin mentality has pretty much soured > me on punk rock as anything but Puritanism with a more lenient dress code. the thing with punk is, like anything else, it attracts a certain asshole quotient. i'm sure if i took up fencing, or animal husbandry, or macrame, that i'd still find a certain asshole quotient. punk's may be larger than many because of the whole loud aggressive music thang and (sometimes) physicality of performances for musicans and/or attendees... but i hate it when people conclude that there is no validity to anything in an entire movement because of the asshole actions of a few. when i move to boston i'm still gonna be a dc punk. - -- d. np some pianer stuff by ravel or some punk like that ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:27:00 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories At 04:20 PM 3/13/2003 -0500, dmw wrote: >the thing with punk is, like anything else, it attracts a certain asshole >quotient. i'm sure if i took up fencing, or animal husbandry, or macrame, >that i'd still find a certain asshole quotient. punk's may be larger than >many because of the whole loud aggressive music thang and (sometimes) >physicality of performances for musicans and/or attendees... > >but i hate it when people conclude that there is no validity to anything >in an entire movement because of the asshole actions of a few. > >when i move to boston i'm still gonna be a dc punk. Boston punks are a reasonably cheerful, if boozy, lot. They may well puke on your shoes, but they'll apologize profusely afterwards, and then write a song celebrating the incident. S NP: ALL ROADS ARE MADE OF THE SAME FLESH -- Kip Hanrahan (v. punky indeed) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:06:52 -0800 (PST) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] how not to promote your band (ns) > Oh, I meant to post this: > > http://www.13amp.tv/ > > This is Joy Zipper's label's website. IMHO, the worst label website ever. Designers take note. I'm certainly having fun with it, even without speakers. Frankly, the website-as-art-project bestows many interesting vistas: http://www.whitney.org/artport/ http://www.whitney.org/exhibition/2kb/internet.html http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jbryson/ArtLinks0401.html http://www.pillowfightbloodbath.com/ http://orbita.starmedia.com/~messageinabottle/ and still my favorite after all these years (note: the AOL address for it no longer works)-- http://www.yleg.com/aldie/yleg/ Have a favorite of your own? Share it with everyone! Wondering if Ben Benjamin's related to Benny, Andy George Latsios, who started revered video business, dies at 44 By Ian Ith Seattle Times staff reporter Movies were to George Latsios what oxygen is to everyone else. Maybe even more so. When he founded Scarecrow Video as a hole-in-the-wall shop in Seattle's Latona neighborhood in 1988, he never hoped to get rich, friends said. He merely wanted to share his all-consuming passion for films. And make enough money to buy more. And more. Mr. Latsios' tireless pursuit of the eclectic, obscure, classic and downright bad movies of the world grew his shop into one of the largest and best-known independent video stores in the country. And it also led to him losing it. Mr. Latsios died Wednesday in his hometown of Kozani, Greece, after a long battle with brain cancer. He was 44. "If you took his movies away, it would have been like depriving him of the essential elements of life," said his ex-wife, Rebecca Soriano of Seattle. "It was all about the movies, and people watching movies, connecting people with the movies. I'll remember him getting such great enjoyment out of people watching movies." Mr. Latsios moved to Greece in 1999, shortly after he was forced to sell his store, now on Roosevelt Way Northeast in the University District, because of tax trouble. "I think he was someone who was really driven by his love of films, and the store is really a reflection of it," said Norm Hill, a longtime friend and store manager. Mr. Latsios was born Sept. 8, 1958, in Kozani and moved to Pennsylvania with his family when he was 10. His boyhood dream was to own a movie theater. When he was 19, he paid $1,200 for a clunky videocassette recorder, and he started collecting movies. He earned a computer-science degree from Penn State. But he and his wife moved to Seattle on a whim in 1983 and Mr. Latsios managed restaurants while building his movie collection to more than 500 titles. He started renting his collection on consignment to customers of a small video store in the University District. Then he quit his job and rented a tiny space in the Latona neighborhood. "We only had like 500 movies, and we slept in the store and worked there day and night," Soriano said. But the store soon filled up with 18,000 titles. Film buffs often came from out of town just to get their hands on Mr. Latsios' hard-to-find flicks. "I think he just became a junkie," Hill said. "I think the video store became an opportunity for him not only to have a business but to be a customer." He and his wife moved the store to its current location, an 8,300-square-foot building at 5030 Roosevelt Way N.E., in 1993. The store stayed just as eclectic as it became famous. Movie stars and directors and film critic Roger Ebert put it on their lists of must-visit sites in Seattle. The store boasted more than 30,000 titles, and Mr. Latsios had watched all of them. His all-time favorite, his ex-wife said, was "Blade Runner," the theatrical version, not the director's cut. In 1995, Mr. Latsios was diagnosed with a brain tumor that doctors estimated had been growing for 10 years. As he became more ill, he started buying more and more movies. Despite annual sales sometimes topping $1 million, Mr. Latsios was broke all the time. "He was given six months to live, so he wasn't thinking about 20 years from now," Soriano said. "He didn't figure he'd be around to pay the tax man." But the tax man came calling. In 1997, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, the Latsioses declared bankruptcy. The store was finally sold in 1999 to John Dauphiny and Carl Tostevin, who promised to keep Mr. Latsios around as long as he wanted. "I love movies," Mr. Latsios told a Seattle Times reporter at the time. "It's still my candy store and I'm the biggest kid in it." In addition to his ex-wife, Mr. Latsios is survived by his mother, Katina, in Greece. A memorial event is planned for 8 p.m. March 30 at Scarecrow Video. Mr. Latsios' friends are also looking to start an endowment fund in his name for a film-studies program at the University of Washington. - --from the Seattle Times, March 8, 2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Subject: Re: [loud-fans] joyless zipper (ns) > I do have a single from the album, "Ron," which > contains one of the cutest videos ever. IMHO. > Basically home movies of Vinnie and Tabitha having a > day at the beach, Dana, stop looking at those boobs! Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:06:44 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] (BJBM) Bad Jello Biafra Memories Welcome to Boston, man!! But, please remember this: punk = good! asshole = bad! We've got enough assholes here already. Anyone back me up on this?! Aaron? glenn? Dan S.? Stewart? Brian? > the thing with punk is, like anything else, it > attracts a certain asshole > quotient. i'm sure if i took up fencing, or animal > husbandry, or macrame, > that i'd still find a certain asshole quotient. > punk's may be larger than > many because of the whole loud aggressive music > thang and (sometimes) > physicality of performances for musicans and/or > attendees... > > but i hate it when people conclude that there is no > validity to anything > in an entire movement because of the asshole actions > of a few. > > when i move to boston i'm still gonna be a dc punk. > > -- d. > > np some pianer stuff by ravel or some punk like that Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:34:03 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] EC on DL So, did anyone catch Elvis Costello guest-hosting Letterman's show last night (okay, by now it's two nights ago)? I taped it and watched it earlier this evening - thought it was pretty good, although a bit surreal at first. When Paul Shaffer's band was blasting away at "Alison" before the commercial break, I found myself thinking, "and what would the Elvis who recorded _This Year's Model_ think of that?" It felt a bit rough when he began interviewing (Kim Cattrall) but he seemed to get into more of a groove later. And the version of "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace Love & Understanding" rocked pretty hard - at least, as far as I could tell on my tinny TV speakers. Uh, anyone have an mp3 of it? ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "am I being self-referential?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] EC on DL - --- Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > And the version of "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace > Love & Understanding" > rocked pretty hard - at least, as far as I could > tell on my tinny TV > speakers. Uh, anyone have an mp3 of it? Sorry, no mp3, but I did see it and you are right. It rocked real hard. I couldn't help but notice that at the beginning of the song, Steve Nieve's keyboard was not hooked up. The exact same thing happened on the infamous Sat. Night Live show. Nerves? (Nieve also looked like Tim Burton). Gil Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #75 ******************************