From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #74 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, March 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] Re: Let's Active ["Larry Tucker" ] [loud-fans] ALRN ["RichardBlatherwick" ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing ["jer fairall" ] Re:[loud-fans] Rock writing [dana-boy@juno.com] [loud-fans] FW: the reputation update! [Overall_Julianne@emc.com] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Chris Murtland ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing ["Roger Winston" ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Chris Murtland ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Gil Ray ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Michael Bowen ] Re:Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [dana-boy@juno.com] [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday [Overall_Julianne@emc.co] Re: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday ["Roger Winston" ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday [Jeffrey with 2 Fs J] [loud-fans] Cedric The Entertainer ["Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: Let's Active |-----Original Message----- |From: dc [mailto:dc@bainbridge.net] |Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:16 PM |To: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Let's Active | | |on 3/7/03 1:45 PM, Jeff Downing at jddown@yahoo.com wrote: | |> Unless I'm missing something, it appears you can order your copy of |> Cypress/Afoot today: http://www.ccmusic.com/item.cfm?itemid=CCM03762 |> | |speaking of, here's an excellent recent feature story on The |Talented Mr. Easter. even name-checks a certain Bay Area band |that's mentioned in these parts from time to time. | |http://www.newsobserver.com/features/story/2161918p-2049703c.html | |dc |vicinity of seattle Make sure to read Part 2. I'll also add that writer David Menconi wrote a pretty cool rock novel a couple of years ago. www.offtherecordbook.com Planning on driving over to Winston-Salem to catch Mitch and Shalini's show Friday night. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:05:39 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: [loud-fans] Rock writing Robert Christgau's amusing essay on why the Pazz & Jop poll is so bad <> spurs an even more entertaining rant from Washington Post music critic David Segal <>: > The point of Christgau9s essay, of course, isn9t to edify or entertain or sum > up or sift. It9s to prove two things: A) Dude knows waaaaay more about pop > than you, and B) His vocabulary can kick your vocabularies9 butt... If Christgau is the dean of rock criticism, Segal goes on to say, we're going to have to burn down the college. The transcript (from a phone-in show) is worth reading in its entirety, as is Christgau's complaining essay, if you can wade through it. Who's right? Both and neither, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks to Jim Romanesko's MediaNews for leading me to these, by the way. <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:36:10 -0000 From: "RichardBlatherwick" Subject: [loud-fans] ALRN Copy currently going on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2514881270&category=2262 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:36:06 -0500 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing Thanks for posting this. Segal was worth reading (as opposed to Christgau, who never is) if only for the news that Elvis Costello is filling in for Letterman on tonights LATE SHOW! Jer np: Sorry About Dresden, LET IT REST Find out who's green and who's not! Use Care2's Green Thumbs-up! http://www.care2.com/go/z/4029 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:42:06 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:[loud-fans] Rock writing Segal and others who can't afford a dictionary on their rock critic salary may want to brace themselves, as Christgau uses "anodyne" again in the first paragraph of this week's column on Norah Jones. Memo to Dave: "hoary" means "very old" and there's a good chance that it'll be on the SAT, and "anodynes" is the noun from "anodyne." You remember "anodyne," right, since you used it in your own review of Mazzy Star. I only skimmed Christgau's article, since I'm not interested in the Jazz & Pop results, but I counted about three difficult words. And I don't have the best vocabulary in the world myself. I do, unlike the person who transcribed Mr. Segal's comments, know how to form the possessive of "vocabulary" but that's neither here nor there. More to the point, Christgau may get carried away sometimes, but at least he had the good taste not to let his life be changed by a Dead Kennedys concert. One wonders why Dave's career has taken him from writing on books to writing on business to writing on rock. Could it be that he had trouble with big words and complicated ideas? - --dana Find out who's green and who's not! Use Care2's Green Thumbs-up! http://www.care2.com/go/z/4029 ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:45:30 -0500 From: Overall_Julianne@emc.com Subject: [loud-fans] FW: the reputation update! Finally Elizabeth & Co. are coming to the west coast! I thought some of you might be interested in the tour dates.... -julianne - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Elmore [mailto:elizabeth@reputationmusic.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:00 PM To: reputation@reputationmusic.com Subject: the reputation update! Hey - Final tour update! Some things have been added so check below - an El Paso show, an LA instore, and SF (?), Bellingham and Portland shows. Also, some Midwest and Canada dates in April/May. Come out, say hi, replace that Rep sticker that washed off your car w/ a new vinyl one, check out the three new comps we have (Kill Rock Stars, Vietnam Veterans Benefit, and Thick Oil - - all excellent), bring me a tape of Alias or Buffy or perhaps a Federal Jurisdiction outline, take us out drinking and dancing afterwards.... whatever you want. Some cool (tho' weird) news - we got #2 record of 2002 in the Los Angeles Times and 6 different Top 10 of 2002 picks in the Village Voice. Can't complain. Also, see below for the new note Sean just wrote for the News Page of our website www.reputationmusic.com ! Shows w/ *** still need someone to flyer! Mar. 12 St. Louis, MO Hi-Pointe w/ Brandston all-ages Mar. 13 Little Rock, AR Vino's w/ Philmore all-ages Mar. 14 Houston, TX the Axiom w/ 90 Day Men, We Ragazzi all-ages Mar. 15 Austin, TX (SXSW) Friend's - Polyvinyl Recs/Initial Recs showcase w/ Ultimate Fakebook, Paris TX, Red Hot Valentines, Solea (ex-Samiam, Texas is the Reason, Knapsack) and Troubled Hubble. The Rep plays at 9:45 sharp! 21+ (sorry). Mar. 16 Lubbock, TX Space Eleven Ten all-ages Mar. 17 El Paso, TX Bridge Center all-ages *** Mar. 18 Tucson, AZ Club Congress w/ the Jons 21+ *** Mar. 19 San Diego CA the Casbah w/ Parklife and the Transit War 21+ Mar. 20 Anaheim CA Chain Reaction w/ Rocking Horse Winner all ages *** Mar. 21 (early) Los Angeles, CA Sea Level Records instore (stripped down versionsof songs, maybe some covers, should be fun....) 5:30ish Mar. 21 (late) Los Angeles, CA Spaceland w/ Anna Waronker and Virgil Shaw 21+ (maybe ***) Mar. 22 Berkeley, CA Gilman St all-ages *** Mar. 23 I'm still working for it. I'll let people know - look for a San Fran bar show and/or a Rasputin's instore Mar. 24 Portland, OR the Blackbird w/ VI Foot Sloth and Andalusia 21+ Mar. 25 Bellingham, WA 20th Century Bowl w/ the Pale all-ages Mar. 26 Seattle, WA the Crocodile w/ Visqueen (Kim from the Fastbacks), New Candidate (Ruthie from Magnapop) + more, all-ages *** Mar. 27 Missoula, MT Jay's Upstairs 18+*** Mar. 28 Fargo, ND Ralph's 21+ *** Mar. 29 St. Paul, MN Big V's w/ The Tide, Mondo Film 21+ *** May 1 Kalamazoo MI probably May 2 Toronto ON Toronto Indiepop Fest at the Rivoli (featured prominently in Margaret Atwood's the Robber Bride! I'm so excited!) w/ the Meligrove Band, +/-, the Bicycles May 3 London ON Call the Office probably Hey, this is Sean from The Reputation here, getting you up to speed on what's going on with the band. "Busy" is a simple, yet effective word that would describe our current collective life. While Elizabeth plugs away at Law School, a full time job in and of itself, we're still playing all over the place and chipping away at new material. Recent Midwest shows and a couple of quick and snowy trips to the East coast have been a party, hanging with friends new and old, and playing some new songs, too. Spring break brings The Rep to the west coast for a spell, with a SXSW show in Austin among the highlights. Come to a show and say hello, have a drink with us and let the good times roll! Please let Elizabeth study if she's got a book in her face. She'll have her drink-on later in the evening, rest assured! With our self-titled debut approaching it's first birthday, we've been slowly (but surely) writing songs for our next release. "Some Senseless Day", our first post-CD song, can be found on THICK OIL, a compilation of Chicago bands released by Thick Records. The whirlwind single-day recording session was challenging but fun, and the rawness and energy of recording in an oil factory (!) can be heard and felt on all the tracks on the CD. Alkaline Trio, Local H, Detachment Kit, Lawrence Arms, Bob Nanna (from Braid and Hey Mercedes) and Duvall (Smoking Popes kids) all contribute. While on the compilation tip, check out "Don't Know When I'll Be Back Again", a compilation benefiting American Veterans of the Vietnam War, on Exotic Fever Records, a cool upstart label straight outta DC. Go to www.exoticfever.com or www.dischord.com . The comp features some great indie bands doing unique covers of Vietnam-era songs like Q and Not U, Ted Leo, J. Robbins from Jawbox and Burning Airlines, Enon and Death Cab for Cutie. We do "For What it's Worth" - one of my all time favorite songs. You know, the "stop, hey, what's that sound everybody look what's going down" song. Very appropriate in these times of impending war. Finally, pick up the Kill Rock Stars 2xCD comp "Field and Streams" at any Rep show. It features a wide range of artists, including Quasi, Neko Case, Yeah yeah yeahs, Mooney Suzuki, Mary Timony, Stereo Total and of course, The Reputation - it's the previously unreleased original demo version of "For the Win". Over 40 songs in all. Take it all in and expand your ear drums. Finally, we're working on a Norwegian 7" that should be out on our friend Petter's label in the next few months.... As always, we'd love to see you on tour, so keep checking-in. Elizabeth is always booking shows, so you never know when we'll be in your town next, but it's probably sooner than you think. We've got mad t-shirts, buttons and stickers for sale, as well as releases from Sarge, Menthol, Ultimate Fakebook and many others, including the above-mentioned comps. Spread the word. Want to get in on some fun? Go to our listserve groups.yahoo.com/group/thereputation. The conversation is never dull, with well-educated and funny people waxing on a great variety of topics, from actual band stuff to politics, TV shows, beer, sports and anything else you could talk about at length. Good times, good times. See you soon! ex-oh, Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:12:11 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing dana-boy@juno.com wrote: >More to the point, Christgau may get carried away sometimes, but at least he had the good taste not to let his life be changed by a Dead Kennedys concert. > > And what would be wrong with having one's life changed by a Dead Kennedy's concert? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:35:05 -0500 From: Chris Murtland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing I'd say it's far better than having one's life changed by a Celine Dion concert. > dana-boy@juno.com wrote: >>More to the point, Christgau may get carried away sometimes, but >>at least he had the good taste not to let his life be changed by a >>Dead Kennedys concert. >> >> > And what would be wrong with having one's life changed by a Dead > Kennedy's concert? > Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:39:01 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing Jenny Grover on 3/12/2003 1:12:11 PM wrote: > And what would be wrong with having one's life changed by a Dead > Kennedy's concert? Allow me to intrepret for dana. It would only be wrong if you recorded the life-changing concert, burned some bootleg CD-Rs of it, and gave them away. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:39:27 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing > From: Jenny Grover > > dana-boy@juno.com wrote: > >> More to the point, Christgau may get carried away sometimes, but at least he >> had the good taste not to let his life be changed by a Dead Kennedys concert. >> > And what would be wrong with having one's life changed by a Dead > Kennedy's concert? Nothing, of course. This is just another example of ad hominem debate--responding to an argument by personal attack rather than reasoned opposition. Other examples: > Segal and others who can't afford a dictionary I.e., he's poor and lazy. > You remember "anodyne," right, since you used it in your own review of > Mazzy Star. I.e., he's a hypocrite. > I do, unlike the person who transcribed Mr. > Segal's comments, know how to form the possessive of "vocabulary" I.e., he's at the mercy of a bad transcriptionist (oooh!). > Could it be that he had trouble with big > words and complicated ideas? I.e., he's stupid. Segal's arguments that Christgau's writing is unnecessarily (and off-puttingly) complicated and convoluted aren't touched. The attacks don't even all hold up--I have a dictionary, and "rebop" isn't in it. I'd like to read an argument that defends Christgau's style by responding to Segal's points, with extended quotes in context. Particularly these: > Where a simple stride would do, [Christgau] always leaps for the > triple sowcow, or just pirouettes into a 100 mph, grammar-hashing blur. > Pop writing should be distracting and illuminating and a little provocative > and if possible it should make you laugh and maybe run out and buy an album. > That9s about it. Hell, I could write a passionate argument against the second point myself, without even resorting to sarcasm. But defend Christgau's writing as in the Pazz & Jop roundup? No way. - --John, being "jolted upward pollwise" into "keyb-enhanced rectitude" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:00:57 -0500 From: Chris Murtland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing I burned all my records. Does anyone want the ashes and melted plastic? Or does this violate the license agreement I entered into with Nature? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:27:25 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing - --- Roger Winston wrote: > Jenny Grover on 3/12/2003 1:12:11 PM wrote: > > > And what would be wrong with having one's life > changed by a Dead > > Kennedy's concert? > > Allow me to intrepret for dana. It would only be > wrong if you recorded the life-changing concert, > burned some bootleg CD-Rs of it, and gave them away. > > Latre. --Rog I wish I could give away a life changing memory of a DK show I saw that Jello had all of his clothes torn off, yet continued to sing, slam and dive into a very armored crowd.Ouch. Gil Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:29:50 -0500 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing At 03:12 PM 3/12/2003 -0500, Jenny Grover wrote: >And what would be wrong with having one's life changed by a Dead Kennedy's >concert? > >Jen It may have something to do with Jello Biafra's amazing topological properties: zero depth, infinite thickness. MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:52:50 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing I.e.'s are a dangerous tool, and while I appreciate attempts to annotate my work: > Segal and others who can't afford a dictionary I.e., this piece isn't *that* hard to read, and there's no shame in having to look up a word or two, so why not do so rather than complaining that Christgau is showing off. I can parse the supposedly difficult sentence containing "rebop" that Segal uses as an example. It's hardly *easy* to read, but it makes sense. And I would not swear that it was missing a word. I counted about three difficult words in the piece as I scanned it, and I'm really not being falsly modest when I say that my vocab isn't the best. > You remember "anodyne," right, since you used it in your own review of > Mazzy Star. I.e., it's odd to complain about vocabulary that you yourself use. The hard part of "hoary anodynes" is "anodynes" which is fine to mention, unless you've already shown that you know the word. Or is Segal assuming that his readers won't know the word? I.e. there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the guy is being lazy and hypocritical. He attacks Christgau for showing off, when in fact, Segal's just being condescending to his own listeners with the age old "I can't undertand all these big words" routine that he should have dropped when he left his old vaudeville act "Clarity and Chuckles." Are parts of Christgaus's piece lame? Of course. Does it merit an attack that basically accuses him of trying to prove he has the biggest dick? Your call. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:14:43 -0500 From: Overall_Julianne@emc.com Subject: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday Vote for what songs she performs... http://www.oxygen.com/specials/features/toriamos/ -julianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:23:40 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday Overall_Julianne@emc.com on 3/12/2003 4:14:43 PM wrote: > Vote for what songs she performs... > > http://www.oxygen.com/specials/features/toriamos/ Too late - looks to me like voting is closed. And what do you want to bet that Inverness and Last Day That We're Young weren't even on the list anyway... Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:58:19 -0500 From: Overall_Julianne@emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday Drats. I didn't know the voting was closed. I shoulda sent the reminder yesterday. Alas... > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Winston [mailto:rwinston@tde.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:24 PM > To: the sound of the collective grumbling > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday > > > Overall_Julianne@emc.com on 3/12/2003 4:14:43 PM wrote: > > > Vote for what songs she performs... > > > > http://www.oxygen.com/specials/features/toriamos/ > > Too late - looks to me like voting is closed. > > And what do you want to bet that Inverness and Last Day That > We're Young weren't even on the list anyway... > > Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:02:22 -0600 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing >I.e.'s are a dangerous tool Heh heh, "dangerous tool..." Heh heh, b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:03:21 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing John Cooper wrote: >>Where a simple stride would do, [Christgau] always leaps for the >>triple sowcow, or just pirouettes into a 100 mph, grammar-hashing blur. >> >> Sowcow?? Is that some new cloned farm animal? I assume he means "salchow", the skating move. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:05:12 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing Chris Murtland wrote: >I burned all my records. Does anyone want the ashes and melted >plastic? Or does this violate the license agreement I entered into >with Nature? > > You evil person! By burning that vinyl you released toxic fumes into the atmosphere that could kill small children and animals and cook the livers of adults! And those ashes- I hope you're getting rid of them at an approved hazardous waste site in a safe manner. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:14:12 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing Bill Silvers wrote: >> I.e.'s are a dangerous tool > > > Heh heh, "dangerous tool..." > > Heh heh, > b.s. IE is a dangerous tool. It's very open to attack by viruses and Trojans. ... tool...Trojans... heh...heh-heh..... Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:35:06 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Rock writing Quoting John Cooper : > Robert Christgau's amusing essay on why the Pazz & Jop poll is so bad > <> spurs an > even > more entertaining rant from Washington Post music critic David Segal > < 1203.htm>> I'm not sure "amusing" is the first adjective that would leap to mind for me. Segal is a bit off in talking about Christgau abusing "vocabulary" - Christgau's main problem is he completely and utterly tortures syntax and structure. I rather suspect that part of his deanness is that no one dare edit him: someone needs to say, "look, it actually is possible and desirable sometimes to say something simply and directly." Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:37:26 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tori Amos custom concert this Sunday > Overall_Julianne@emc.com on 3/12/2003 4:14:43 PM wrote: > > > Vote for what songs she performs... > > > > http://www.oxygen.com/specials/features/toriamos/ Damn - they didn't list the two-hour remix of John Cage's _4'33"_... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Cedric The Entertainer Did anyone tape this last night? Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #74 ******************************