From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #67 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, March 6 2003 Volume 03 : Number 067 Today's Subjects: ----------------- (Fwd) Re: [loud-fans] LN Side 3, or is that filler in your poc ["Paul Kin] Re:Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" [dana-boy@juno.com] RE: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" ["Keegstra, Russell" ] [loud-fans] Old Folks Music Magazine ["Brendan Curry" ] eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") [Dave Walke] Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a CD?" [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Old Folks Music Magazine [JRT456@aol.com] Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") [John C] RE: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" [Stef ] Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") [Aaron] Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" ["Roger Winston" ] Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") [Aaron ] Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" [dana-boy@juno.com] Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a CD?" ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] This Week's "Ask Scott" [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 05:54:19 -0500 From: "Paul King" Subject: (Fwd) Re: [loud-fans] LN Side 3, or is that filler in your poc I didn't really think of most of this side as filler... There as still plenty of strong tracks that I though were very worthwhile. These tracks are closest to being filler, but they are short, so it doesn't get annoying. > Mammoth Gardens - Lots of people hated this one, but > aside from the "we can dance dance dance" stuff, I > think it's a pretty cool rocker. Nuff said. I wasn't one of them. I actually thought it was one of their stronger tracks, though I admit it is not the strongest. I quite liked the song. If this were released as a single, I could see this getting worn from too much airplay, and maybe then I would imagine getting tired of hearing "we can dance and dance and dance and dance and dance". > Little Ivory - Remember back on side 2 that I said I can't imagine Little Ivory being filler either. > One More For Saint Michael - Lots of percussion > Choose Between Two Sons - To pay us back for not Two more reasons I can't think of this side as filler. ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:47:11 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" I too see the conversation spiraling off into an abstract moral conversation, which is a shame. I'm glad, though, to see that Jeff is no longer relying on the "evil record companies" argument, which was the point I was trying to get at anyway. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:43:52 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" Ms. Grover: >Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >>Hey, here's a novel idea: I could actually *read* the agreement I >>agreed to. Honestly, those agreements when you install software that >>you have to click I AGREE in order install? How many of us actually >>read them beyond the lines visible on the screen? > >I almost always do, and I have found some creepy enough that I elected >not to install the software. My favorite is this bit in Microsoft EULAs: NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT. THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT CONTAINS SUPPORT FOR PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE. ...which always makes me think what they are really saying is "You know, if it weren't for that Java shit this software would be reliable enough to control power plants." I also like the way this paragraph is all in upper case to draw specific attention to it. But then, I've turned down jobs because I refused to sign their information release. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:21:47 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" At Tuesday 3/4/2003 09:35 PM -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >All I did - in addition to publicizing that that >particular title is available at eMusic - is save someone the trouble of >burning their own CD, which of course they could do themselves, w/o spending >pennies that would go to eMusic, Cog Sinister, MES's publishers, or MES >himself. Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. You just don't get it, do you? Time for a little Tough Love, my friend. Jeff, you are a monster. All your pathetic excuses and rationalizations don't negate the fact that you screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money. In order to regain your moral footing, I feel it is imperative you make restitution to the above entities *immediately*. Also, you should send some money to Limp Bizkit and their record company for every time you've slagged them to others orally or in writing. Who knows how many record sales you may've cost the group? Same with Celine Dion and anyone else you've made negative comments about. And you know those episodes of Buffy that you time-shifted and watched later while fast forwarding through the commercials? You must go back and watch the commercials. Make note of the sponsors and buy their products. They are paying to put your favorite show on the air, so you should reimburse them. BTW, I have it on good authority that you once slandered my band's music to a fellow LoudFan who was considering purchasing our CD. Send me $11.97. I accept PayPal. Jeff, you are my friend, and I hate to see you sliding to the dark side. You, and only you, have the power to reverse your moral decay. Do so without delay. We'll wait. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 15:01:28 +0000 From: "Brendan Curry" Subject: [loud-fans] Old Folks Music Magazine Short version: Two ex-Spin and Vibe execs are launching a new magazine amined at the 30+ demographic. They say: "This generation wants to maintain a contemporary relationship with pop culture, including music. And they need a guide," said Mr. Rollins, who is 39. "The things we'll most stay away from,' said Mr. Light, the company's editor in chief, "is the bubble-gum stuff," such as Britney Spears and 'N Sync, and "the new metal" bands such as Limp Bizkit. http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=37277 - -Brendan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:38:03 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a CD?" On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > tracks destined solely for mix tapes sent to others. But I'll admit...that's > a grey area. Hey, here's a novel idea: I could actually *read* the agreement > I agreed to. Honestly, those agreements when you install software that you > have to click I AGREE in order install? How many of us actually read them > beyond the lines visible on the screen? For all I know, the last software I i think it's almost inevitable that someone will eventually file a suit to the effect that an entity wilfully attempted to conceal injurious information by burying it deep in an impenetrable licensing agreement, but to the best of my knowledge it hasn't happened yet. i read 'em. as others have said, i've found doing so worthwhile to date. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ i'm not joining in the general dogpile by any means, but i would like to point out and support one almost incontrovertible fact, and advance a hypothesis suggested by the pint: almost incontrovertible point: A CDR burned from downloaded mp3s is not the same as CD of the same music in the form released by the original manufacturer. support: 1. the bits aren't the same: mp3 compression is lossy; .wav files re-converted from mp3 files do NOT contain the same data as the original 16bit 44.1 Khz audio 2. the physical media isn't the same; depending on storage conditions and dye layer type, CDR lifetime will typically be from 5-25 years (my best guess based on prior research); CD lifetime will typically be 50+ years (based on research of accelerated stress testing) 3. although high-quality home color printers are becoming more common, the facsimiles of booklest, traycards etc., which may accompany CDRs generally do not meet the typical industry standards applied to document production. further, any ability to reproduce packaging which deviates from standard jewel cases is extremely limited. in addition, if direct-on-disc printing is used, it is likely to substantially reduce the CDR lifetime. Finally, many CDRs (personal research) are distributed compeletely without the artwork, lyrics, etc. which often accompany commercial releases. Hypothesis: A CDR of downloaded music should not be regarded as equal in value to a commercially produced cd. - -- d. charlambides "naked in the water of our death skins" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:52:27 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") >> (Super extra eMusic gripe: one of the tracks has been misripped and is >> only 8 seconds long. I have the real CD of this -- bought it months >> ago, >> not knowing it was on eMusic -- and that track is not really 8 seconds >> long. I don't know what happened there, but it's afflicted records by >> Shriekback and Mark E. Smith on eMusic before.) >> > This is my big gripe with eMusic right now. I've run into several > tracks already that are corrupted in some way or another. Since I am > paying for this service, I'm not pleased about that. I also wish they > would include release dates with the titles. I don't expect full > credits, but at least a release date would be helpful. from the help pages: "Yes. While EMusic makes every effort to make sure our recordings are of the highest quality, some errors do occur in the encoding process. Please let us know by clicking here ( http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi ) and selecting "Defective Track" from the drop-down menu. After receiving your submitted web form, we will attempt to locate the defects and republish the track if necessary." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:01:38 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a CD?" On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, dmw wrote: > advance a > hypothesis suggested by the pint: oh hell, now Rog is going to sue me for infringement..... sun ra "retrospect" (e) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:01:10 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" Oh lord. Well, if Roger's going to take the "Jeff, you're a monster" tack, I suppose I get to defend Jeff's ethics. Luckily, I've managed to break them down to ten simple commandments: 1. Thou shalt not read the contract if it's inconvenient to do so. All those big words! Do they think thou art an English teacher or something?? 2. Thou shalt not be bound by any contract that thou hath not read. 3. Thou shalt follow the laws of the land. 4. Unless the laws are inconvenient, requiring you, for example, to throw away a small plastic disc. 5. Thou shalt not steal. 6. Unless thou art able to conceive of some complicated chain of events by which the theft might possibly result in some good. 7. Like, for example, if a little old lady drops a dollar on the sidewalk and thou keepeth it instead of giving it back, hey, she might have been planning to give the money to Saddam Hussein. Did you think of that, smartypants? 8. I didn't think so. And besides, what's the big deal about a dollar? Those little old ladies are loaded. 9. Thou shalt respond "What's the big deal" whenever thou art accused of malfeasance that doesn't involve death or dismemberment. 10. Thou shalt feign ignorance to the fact that "Live in Reykjavik" might not be the best album to use to attract new fans to the Fall. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:06:48 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Old Folks Music Magazine In a message dated 3/5/03 7:02:19 AM, anateus620@hotmail.com writes: << "The things we'll most stay away from,' said Mr. Light, the company's editor in chief, "is the bubble-gum stuff," such as Britney Spears and 'N Sync, and "the new metal" bands such as Limp Bizkit. >> While I certainly wish them luck, let's keep in mind that very similar sentiments were expressed by the folks at Revolver, which managed exactly one issue before discovering a love for nu-metal. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:18:59 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") One thing I've found about MP3 files is that, unlike JPEGs, they will open if incomplete. They just cut off at the point of interruption. So before writing to complain about that eight-second file, I'd try downloading it again. I've been on eMusic for about fourteen months, and the only problem I've had with a track involved just such an incomplete download. > From: Dave Walker > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:52:27 -0500 > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Subject: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") > >>> (Super extra eMusic gripe: one of the tracks has been misripped and is >>> only 8 seconds long. I have the real CD of this -- bought it months >>> ago, >>> not knowing it was on eMusic -- and that track is not really 8 seconds >>> long. I don't know what happened there, but it's afflicted records by >>> Shriekback and Mark E. Smith on eMusic before.) >>> >> This is my big gripe with eMusic right now. I've run into several >> tracks already that are corrupted in some way or another. Since I am >> paying for this service, I'm not pleased about that. I also wish they >> would include release dates with the titles. I don't expect full >> credits, but at least a release date would be helpful. > > from the help pages: > > "Yes. While EMusic makes every effort to make sure our > recordings are of the highest quality, some errors do occur > in the encoding process. Please let us know by clicking > here ( http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi ) > and selecting "Defective Track" from the drop-down > menu. > > After receiving your submitted web form, we will attempt to > locate the defects and republish the track if necessary." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:20:02 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Subject: RE: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" "Keegstra, Russell" wrote: > ...which always makes me think what they are really > saying is "You know, if it weren't for that Java > shit this software would be reliable enough to > control power plants." Nuclear power plants run on Microsoft software would render Al-Qaeda obsolete. Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:52:47 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, John Cooper wrote: > One thing I've found about MP3 files is that, unlike JPEGs, they will > open if incomplete. They just cut off at the point of interruption. So > before writing to complain about that eight-second file, I'd try > downloading it again. Their web page also reports it as being 8 seconds long. I am lucky enough to have a net connection that doesn't suddenly drop out in the middle of downloading huge files, let alone a 200K one. So, not to be snippy, but that's not the problem. (The times I've run into it in the past that clearly wasn't it either; while eMusic's response was unhelpful, it was basically "no, those songs are supposed to be ten seconds long; some artists are very eccentric and publish songs that short" which is true in general but was not what was going on with the tracks I mailed them about...) aaron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:31:39 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" dana-boy@juno.com on 3/5/2003 9:01:10 AM wrote: > 3. Thou shalt follow the laws of the land. > > 4. Unless the laws are inconvenient, requiring you, for example, > to throw away a small plastic disc. Just out of curiousity, do you drive? And if so, do you ever violate the speed limit? Can't remember if anyone's asked you that before... What about jaywalking (esp. while listening to iPod)? Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: eMusic bad encodes (was Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?") On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Dave Walker wrote: > "Yes. While EMusic makes every effort to make sure our > recordings are of the highest quality, some errors do occur > in the encoding process. Please let us know by clicking > here ( http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi ) > and selecting "Defective Track" from the drop-down > menu. And this time, they fixed it! (Not due to me -- I hadn't yet reported it went I rechecked the file just now.) Thanks, eMusic! They also just added Tempted, the Jenny Toomey/Franklin Bruno album from last year. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:25:23 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" > 3. Thou shalt follow the laws of the land. > > 4. Unless the laws are inconvenient, requiring you, for example, > to throw away a small plastic disc. Just out of curiousity, do you drive? And if so, do you ever violate the speed limit? Can't remember if anyone's asked you that before... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This came up once before. No, I don't drive. Used to, but it's too much of a pain in the city, and not really necessary. The way we deal with cars in this world is insane, but I'm not about to waste any effort on that subject, since it's too tied in to economics for arguments to really matter. But, as with the last time we went down this path, the point isn't whether people obey the law all the time. It's whether they post short novels to loud-fans trying to justify it when they don't, rather than just saying, "I broke the law because it was convenient at the time." If we could just get to that point, maybe we could stop demonizing record companies for having trouble dealing with a nation full of people who often find it convenient to break the law. And honestly, wouldn't it be kind of classy to *not* give away eMusic stuff? They are the good guys, right? As Aaron said, there's going to be an *awful* lot of misburned CDRs, at least until I convince Jeff to get an iPod (though he'll probably end up stealing it from a nun). - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:51:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a CD?" On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, dmw wrote: > Hypothesis: > > A CDR of downloaded music should not be regarded as equal in value to a > commercially produced cd. Agreed. Now if someone would just explain that to frightened major-label record companies, so they don't think the future of music distribution should be low-fidelity artworkless bandwidth-intensive burner/portable listening device-necessary systems. The future of radio/promotions? Sure, it works fine for that. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:52:49 -0800 (PST) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: [loud-fans] "What's a Care Bear?" > I'll let you know which Care Bear just as soon as I find out what a Care > Bear is. I am somehow more shocked by this than by discovering *three* people onlist who'd never heard of Dan Savage. http://wishbear.net/ Could it be...convenient...that Dana never actually admits to speeding... Andy Group Protests N.Y. Peace T-Shirt Arrest By DAMITA CHAMBERS, Associated Press Writer GUILDERLAND, N.Y. - About 100 anti-war demonstrators marched through a mall Wednesday to protest the arrest of a shopper who wore a T-shirt that read "Peace on Earth" and "Give Peace a Chance." "We just want to know what the policy is and why it's being randomly enforced," said Erin O'Brien, an organizer of the noontime rally at the Crossgates Mall. Protest leaders were scheduled to meet with the mall's manager after the rally. Calls to mall officials were not immediately returned. On Monday, Stephen Downs, 61, and his son were asked by mall security guards to remove their peace-slogan shirts or leave. Downs' 31-year-old son, Roger, took off his shirt. But Downs refused. The guards called police, and he was charged with trespassing and pleaded innocent. Police Chief James Murley said: "We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property." The men had had the T-shirts made at a mall store and wore them while they shopped. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:00:58 -0500 From: Chris Murtland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" 3/5/2003 12:31 PM, you wrote: > dana-boy@juno.com on 3/5/2003 9:01:10 AM wrote: >> 3. Thou shalt follow the laws of the land. > Just out of curiousity, do you drive? And if so, do you ever > violate the speed limit? Rog, you typed the words right out of my head. And Jeff's "offense" seems to be the equivalent of going 60 in a 55 one day a week on a deserted country road rather than consistently driving 80 in a 25 school zone. I advocate listening only to music that's in the public domain while staying out of motor vehicles, thereby avoiding any legal entanglements. Murt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:54:41 -0500 From: "David Seldin" Subject: [loud-fans] This Week's "Ask Scott" If you haven't read this already, I suggest you do so ASAP: http://www.loudfamily.com/askscott.html First of all, bravo to glenn for putting his pissed off eloquence to work. I'm glad he had the nerve, and grace, to challenge Scott's mopey self-denigration. Scott seemed grateful, too. The exchange was revealing, and one of Scott's statements struck a very profound chord for me. He's talking about his increasing frustration or disillusionment with the act of producing records, and he writes: "You want people to ask -- and you begin to understand it's not going to happen -- 'what is he bringing to us that we don't expect, in advance, to want to hear?'" I don't know about any of you, but (now that I've heard Scott articulate it) that's exactly what I'm asking for as a consumer of "pop" music - To be profoundly surprised and satisfied by something new. I don't want to hear the same thing rehashed for the 14th time. Over the last two years, I've grown increasingly bored with new music. With few exceptions, all I'm hearing is an imitation of what's already been done. I'm waiting for Rock's next savior. I don't necessarily mean the next Beatles or Nirvana. The Next Great Band doesn't have to do anything more than save *me* - by doing exactly what Scott hoped to do, by delivering something profoundly new, and very good. Scott played that role twice for me, with Lolita Nation and then with Interbabe Concern. Outkast did it for me most recently, back in 2000, with Stankonia. The best records I've heard over the last couple years have been (again, in Scott's words), "stealthily imitat[ing] another work which has recently been taken as innovative", like Yo La Tengo (mining their groove) or the White Stripes. I need someone with Scott's goals to get me excited about music again. While I wish that someone was Scott, I'll take anyone. Back to lurking, David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:16:43 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] "What's a contract?" dana-boy@juno.com wrote: > As Aaron said, there's going to be an *awful* lot of > misburned CDRs, at least until I convince Jeff to > get an iPod (though he'll probably end up stealing > it from a nun). Nah, nuns only use IPopes. Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:56:15 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] This Week's "Ask Scott" Quoting David Seldin : > I don't necessarily mean the next Beatles or Nirvana. The Next Great > Band > doesn't have to do anything more than save *me* - by doing exactly what > Scott > hoped to do, by delivering something profoundly new, and very good. > > Scott played that role twice for me, with Lolita Nation and then with > Interbabe Concern. So you're saying - he entertained you twice? ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:47:46 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] sssshhhhh! + turpitude unturned I have here in my hands a copy of a CD, a sampler from Absolutely Kosher Records entitled _Mitzvoth_. It says here on the packaging, "This CD is free. If your friend wants one, just tell her/him to write to us and ask for one," "us" in this instance being macher@absolutelykosher.com. You could do that. Did I mention that this is the second copy of this CD that AK has sent me? And that I have no need for two copies? Anyway. In unrelated news, it is my sad duty to inform you of a four-foot restriction...no, wait, that's something else. Continuing: it is my sad duty to inform you that I'm going back on my word. That's right: I will *not* be giving away that controversial Fall CD-R, having had a change of heart. But I found myself thinking: promotional copies of CDs often bear a disclaimer stating that they are technically property of the issuing record company, and that they must be surrendered upon demand. In other words, the record company is lending me the CD. There must be some legal reason, some legal advantage, to arranging things this way, rather than giving me the promo CD outright. So instead of giving away that Fall CD-R (hereinafter "CD"), I am lending it to the person who earlier claimed it (hereinafter "D"), for an indefinite period of time, during any moment of which I am entitled to ask for it back, upon which demand D will promptly return it to me via Pony Express, a round-the-world travelling balloonist, psychic powers, or any other means including the United States Postal Service. More specifically, "D," by accepting these terms, agrees to construe the situation essentially as D saying, "hey, can I hear that Fall CD?" to which I reply, "Sure!"; such exchange in no way constituting any ownership of said CD upon D's part, nor in any way constituting "distribution" of the CD or its contents on my part. Know all men by these presents that they can bite me. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "am I being self-referential?" ps: Jim Yoshii Pile-Up, Xiu Xiu, Summer at Shatter Creek, the Wrens, Franklin Bruno, Pinback, The Mountain Goats...what's not to like about that Absolutely Kosher sampler, eh? So you know, write the guy. Me, I'll be burying its pieces in my backyard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Hey, iPod users I've written a program that creates a list of the contents of the iPod, and am looking for testers. It is a completely non-invasive program which works on a *copy* of the iTunesDB database. I'd like at least one person who uses a Mac iPod and one who uses an iPod with Linux. Please contact me offlist for more details. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #67 ******************************