From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #58 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, February 26 2003 Volume 03 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) ["Larry] Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) ["J] Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) [El] [loud-fans] Re: non-pricey food and lodging in SF [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Spelling question [Matthew Weber ] Re:Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X 2)) [dana-boy@juno.] Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory cover scans? [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) So what's this about anyone? Sue? Joe? Steve? And Miles, this is for you. Done by a friend of mine. http://indyweek.com/durham/2003-02-19/music3.html - -Larry -----Original Message----- From: PaulRock [mailto:Gorky15@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:29 AM To: paisley-pop@yahoogroups.com Subject: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3 March 20, Highland Grounds, Hollywood Scott Miller-(Loud Family) Mike Randle(Baby Lemonade/Love) David Ponak-(Mello Cads) Tony Low [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To Post a message, send it to: paisley-pop@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: paisley-pop-unsubscribe@eGroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Larry Tucker wrote: > So what's this about anyone? Sue? Joe? Steve? Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:45:51 -0500 (EST) To: loud-news@smoe.org Subject: Loud Family news: more gig news! JUST ANNOUNCED! Hey, southern Californians: Scott Miller will be performing solo at Highland Grounds in L.A. on Thursday, March 20. Music starts at 8, Scott's on at 10. And northern Californians, don't forget Scott & Alison Faith Levy's gig at Rock Soup in San Francisco on Saturday, March 29. Ask Scott was updated on Feb. 17. http://www.loudfamily.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:11:18 -0800 From: Elizabeth Brion Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 10:11 AM, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > > And northern Californians, don't forget Scott & Alison Faith Levy's > gig at > Rock Soup in San Francisco on Saturday, March 29. > > Hmm. This is intriguing - Randy and I have been planning to take a first-anniversary trip, and this is the week we were looking at taking it, and we thought of but ruled out San Francisco, but it might be a reversible decision. And maybe you - yes, you! - can help. The sole basis for our rejection was that, on our day trips to SF, we have been sadly unable to feed ourselves for a price that fits into anyone's definition of reasonable. We have no problem with the occasional pricey-but-great meal, but three a day for four or five days isn't feasible. Our attempts to just walk out of our hotel and find something have resulted in pricey-but-really-bad, which wasn't the change we were angling for (I once paid $23 for the single worst plate of spaghetti with tomato sauce in the history of the universe). So - what are we missing? There's gotta be a part of town with good cheap Chinese/Thai/Indian/etc. food, doesn't there? If there were in fact such a neighborhood, and it was somewhere in the vicinity of a decent hotel (backpackers we are not), maybe we could make this whole crazy scheme come together. I haven't had much time to post lately, but I must say - it's awfully nice to be on a list where both Pet Sounds and Fountains of Wayne are criticized and nobody cries or anything. E ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:36:33 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] Re: non-pricey food and lodging in SF At 12:11 PM 2/25/2003 -0800, Elizabeth Brion wrote: >Hmm. This is intriguing - Randy and I have been planning to take a >first-anniversary trip, and this is the week we were looking at taking >it, and we thought of but ruled out San Francisco, but it might be a >reversible decision. And maybe you - yes, you! - can help. > >The sole basis for our rejection was that, on our day trips to SF, we >have been sadly unable to feed ourselves for a price that fits into >anyone's definition of reasonable. We have no problem with the >occasional pricey-but-great meal, but three a day for four or five days >isn't feasible. Our attempts to just walk out of our hotel and find >something have resulted in pricey-but-really-bad, which wasn't the >change we were angling for (I once paid $23 for the single worst plate >of spaghetti with tomato sauce in the history of the universe). So - >what are we missing? There's gotta be a part of town with good cheap >Chinese/Thai/Indian/etc. food, doesn't there? If there were in fact >such a neighborhood, and it was somewhere in the vicinity of a decent >hotel (backpackers we are not), maybe we could make this whole crazy >scheme come together. 1. The Golden Gate Hotel at 775 Bush Street (between Powell and Mason) will give you a really nice room for $115 a night, insanely inexpensive for lodging in the city. If you're really feeling cheap, you can get a room without a private bath for $85 a night, but the big-ass clawfoot tubs (I'm 6'6" and I could actually fit in the tub comfortably enough to take a bath instead of a shower, a rare and wondrous experience) are worth the extra 30 bucks. 2. Said hotel is walking distance from Chinatown, which given your dietary restrictions is probably the best place in town for you to eat. Sam Lok at 655 Jackson Street is a fairly kick-ass Sichaun place with an exceptional king pao tofu dish. A rather huge dinner for two there will run you about 20-25 bucks. Total. There's undoubtedly a ton of crappy restaurants in Chinatown, but if you're relatively skilled at sniffing out the good places, you'll find enough to make it worth your while. 3. There's also a really good Thai noodle shop at 1418 Haight Street called Best of Thai Noodle that's similarly inexpensive and has vegan items galore. However, there's the problem that to eat there, you have to be in the Haight, which means that after you see the sixth Trustafarian in a Bob Marley t-shirt, you'll wanna tap him on the shoulder and go, "Um, y'know, there's OTHER dead reggae singers too," but at least it's not that far from Amoeba. 4. I'm not much on SF myself, but Charity and I just got back from a few days there for the Chinese New Year parade, and while I stand by my previous criticisms of the city, I'm willing to admit that it's not entirely useless, especially if you don't have to drive. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:46:01 -0500 From: "jer fairall" Subject: [loud-fans] Spelling question Is "octopi" a word (as in more than one octopus)? I always thought it was, but WordPerfect insists otherwise. Sorry. Jer Find out who's green and who's not! Use Care2's Green Thumbs-up! http://www.care2.com/go/z/4029 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:50:32 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Spelling question At 03:46 PM 2/25/03 -0500, jer fairall wrote: >Is "octopi" a word (as in more than one >octopus)? I always thought it was, but >WordPerfect insists otherwise. > >Sorry. > >Jer > >Find out who's green and who's not! Use Care2's Green Thumbs-up! According to my desk copy of Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (Springfield, Massachusetts : G. & C. Merriam Co., 1973) either "octopuses" or "octopi" is an acceptable plural for "octopus". Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 30, verse 23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:17:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Elizabeth Brion wrote: > The sole basis for our rejection was that, on our day trips to SF, we > have been sadly unable to feed ourselves for a price that fits into > anyone's definition of reasonable. Burritos in the Mission district run $4-$6, and you won't need much more for the day. The East Bay is also full of dining opportunities, but those require BART travel, which exacerbates the price of the meal. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:38:16 -0500 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X2)) I stayed in the Mission district about a year ago and had a wonderful time there. There is a very good Vietnamese restaurant called Saigon Saigon on on Valencia in the Mission district between 22nd and 23rd streets I think. And you can get some terrific breakfasts in the Mission, too. I stayed at a lovely B&B called Delores Place and it was about 115 a night. I walked over to Aquarius records from there which was fun. Carolyn on 2/25/03 3:11 PM, Elizabeth Brion at elizabeth@fringehead.com wrote: > > change we were angling for (I once paid $23 for the single worst plate > of spaghetti with tomato sauce in the history of the universe). So - > what are we missing? There's gotta be a part of town with good cheap > Chinese/Thai/Indian/etc. food, doesn't there? If there were in fact ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:31:05 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Hurts Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: non-pricey food and lodging in SF Stewart Mason wrote: > 1. The Golden Gate Hotel at 775 Bush Street (between > Powell and Mason) will give you a really nice room > for $115 a night, $115 a night?? Wow, now I know why most Americans have only 20 days or so off work per year... Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:53:22 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: non-pricey food and lodging in SF Everybody's got SF fever, it seems. Just booked two nights at the Britton Hotel, and a few more at the Phoenix in the Tenderloin, both recommended and at $70-$100 a night. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:03:53 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More about aging rockers On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > too many boil down to there being an excellent 40-minute album to > be drawn from the bloated, double 75-minute set in question. Not to gainsay you, exactly, but I'm curious juuuuuust how many of those you have. There was a period where several high-profile acts released albums like that -- it was enough of a trend for Graham Smith to think he was being cute by releasing his own bloated two-disc album two years ago - -- but I don't think it left a permanent scar on hip-hop. Maybe I'm just buying the right things now. > (So those of us who do know hip-hop might do a public service to those > who are interested but put off by this phenomenon: what are some good, > solid, tightly constructed hip-hop albums that aren't excessively > indebted to thuggishness as a sales technique?) I mentioned Blackalicious's Blazing Arrow and Anti-Pop Consortium's Arrhythmia in my year-end list, so there's those. (I don't love what either of them did before those records, myself.) Anything by Aesop Rock is worthwhile; you might want to start with Float, as Labor Days was so tightly wound that even expecting to like it, I had trouble finding the patience to listen carefully, even though once I did I was rewarded. Aes Rock's labelmates Cannibal Ox aren't bad, but they're kind of the Wilco of indie rap: hard to find a description of them that doesn't overstate the importance of their deliciously produced but lightweight hit album. (Uh, that's just my opinion there.) Indie crew Anticon might be a good place to look if you really want to get away from "normal" hip-hop sounds. They've got a chip on their shoulder sometimes but they've certainly made some good stuff. First best, I think, is the cLOUDDEAD album, which is waaaay downtempo but has lots of voices drifting in and out amongst the beats. For something back in the 'song' mode, the self-titled album by Them (featuring occasional Bradley collaborator Dose One) is pretty excellent, less so their new album as Themselves. I also just dug out something by Buck 65 that I picked up when I was buying Anticon records too fast to actually give them all a fair chance, and you know, he sounds like a friendly Eminem. This one's called Vertex, and I don't know it as well as this other stuff I'm recommending, but I'm liking it. Anyway, anticon.com has mp3s if you want an idea of the label sound. Filler can be a problem when you get farther into the Anticon library, though less in a "look how much I can rap" way than in a sort of Robert Pollard "this whole album's okay but it's making me forget what I liked about the last one" way. Then there's Big Dada. Pick up the label sampler Sound01 and see what you think... I like Gamma and New Flesh in a very similar way to Anti-Pop Consortium. Roots Manuva made a great (but slightly elongated) record in 2001 called Run Come Save Me with a clubby / reggae sound system / hip-hop sound to it. Roots Manuva (Rodney Smith) isn't a great MC, but his voice sounds nice and his rhymes lean more to the prosaic than the banal. It looks like www.ninjatune.net/bigdada has some RealAudio stuff to listen to. What else? Dilated Peoples are still further toward the mainstream but I found both of their records to be a lot of fun. I don't *think* they'd trip your 'thug' sensors, but it's a possibility. And I love some of the stuff on the Saul Williams album, but you specifically asked for albums that were more consistent, and I can't in good conscience claim he is. You can hear two minutes of his amazing "Twice The First Time" at http://www.ninjatune.net/bigdada/release.php?id=7 though if you not only dislike thugginess (which I do) but want to hear pointed critiques of it, Williams may be the way to go. He clearly wants to speak to the larger hip-hop audience but isn't dissing "keeping it real" just to position himself as alternative or something... I think that's probably enough from me. If anyone follows up one of these recs and finds a pleasant surprise, do let me know. I'll be curious. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:08:38 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: non-pricey food and lodging in SF At 05:31 PM 2/25/2003 -0800, Stef Hurts wrote: >Stewart Mason wrote: >> 1. The Golden Gate Hotel at 775 Bush Street (between >> Powell and Mason) will give you a really nice room >> for $115 a night, > >$115 a night?? Wow, now I know why most Americans have >only 20 days or so off work per year... Bear in mind that this is San Francisco, an absurdly overpriced city, and it's a rather nice, cozy B&B-type place with lots of amenities. (This is the first hotel I've ever stayed in that not only has wireless Internet access in all the rooms, but will loan you their spare iBook if you need it.) Hotel costs in more reasonable parts of the country usually run anywhere from $20-$25 for a rather dubious mom-and-pop of the type that most of your low-end amateur porn is shot in, to $35-$55 for a comfy and quite nice but rather anonymous room in a chain motel (this is where we usually end up), to $70-100 for a fairly luxe room. S NP: RINGS -- Absinthe Blind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:26:32 -0500 From: ldv81 Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory cover scans? Hello, I'm new to the list and was wondering if anyone has cover scans for the oop Game Theory stuff. I am looking for "Lolita Nation" in particular. Thanks, and I look forward to reading your posts regarding Scott Miller, LF and GT. Thanks, Danny H. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:25:56 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] FW: [paisley-pop] Wild Honey Night #3... ((Scott X 2)) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:45:51 -0500 (EST) To: loud-news@smoe.org Subject: Loud Family news: more gig news! JUST ANNOUNCED! Hey, southern Californians: Scott Miller will be performing solo at Highland Grounds in L.A. on Thursday, March 20. Music starts at 8, Scott's on at 10. And northern Californians, don't forget Scott & Alison Faith Levy's gig at Rock Soup in San Francisco on Saturday, March 29. Ask Scott was updated on Feb. 17. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You'll all have to excuse Joe for being a bit out of the loop: I'm afraid that the Paisly Pop list hasn't sent out the email about the new Ask Scott yet. Be reassured, though, that Ask Scott was most recently updated on Feb. 24. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:34:32 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory cover scans? Quoting ldv81 : > I'm new to the list and was wondering if anyone has cover scans for the > oop > Game Theory stuff. I am looking for "Lolita Nation" in particular. I could do this for you if no one has any to hand more readily... > and I look forward to reading your posts regarding Scott Miller, LF and > GT. Ha! That's the best laugh I've had all day! Should we tell him? (hint: do a search in the list archives - http://www.escribe.com/music/loudfans/index.html - and you'll probably discover that most of them are from Miles and refer to the guy from Knoxville...) ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:18:24 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Keeping the world safe for folded laundry Yes, it's that time when we hear at the Loudfans Channel return to one of rarest yet most fondly regarded topics: online psychoanalysis of one Scott Miller of San Mateo, CA. In this week's "Ask Scott" (and I'm surprised _The Onion_ hasn't used this in one of their "advice" columns...Ask a Semi-Retired Obscure Cult-Act Pop Figure), OS reveals that nowadays, when the sinful urge to write a song strikes him - you know, that little stirring of the vocal muscles, the flushing of the fretting hand, thoughts of just what you'd do if you ever got that cute little blonde Gibson alone in a practice room - he'll "count to ten and go do something useful, like my laundry." He does admit that occasionally he'll give in and stroke his pen enough to "jot down a lyric" - but the implication seems to be that this is a weakness that, with more practice at separating his whites and colors, his hang-dries from his dryer items, he'll be able to cease entirely. His reasoning? "Let's say for the moment that despite popular consensus I'm a worthwhile artist, and despite even minority consensus my later material is exciting and worth following. I sort of have to hope that enough people miraculously arrive at that conclusion to even pretend that the pop music deployment mechanism is worth my cranking it up again on what will be *even later material*." Ooh, it gives me chills - after a line like that, *I'd* go home with him. Wouldn't you? It sure cranks up my pop music deployment mechanism, anyway. I dunno - I'd be a lot happier (as if I have some sort of sovereignty over someone else's thoughts) if he'd said, "hey, I've got a baby girl now - there's more important things to do," or something like that - but no, now it's all "someone please make them stop! these songs and useless outmoded hooks keeping coming into my head!" The weird thing is, the reason he keeps claiming no one likes his music anymore is that people keep writing him to ask if he's going to write music anymore. Presumably, they're all doing so because they've run out of music to hate, and are asking Scott to create more of it. It's too bad: I almost think if Scott were more of an elitist, as opposed to someone who genuinely wants his stuff to be popular, he'd be happier in terms of his music. "So only five people on the planet besides myself get this? Cool!" I mean, I'm kind of guessing that, unless he burned them ritualistically and ran through the house chanting and waving about burning sage, he still has a bunch of guitars, some synths and drum machines, and some decent recording equipment about - even if he can't get the Studio Luxo sound, nowadays you can get decent enough results. So an e-mail comes out every few months noting the existence of another three-minute .wav file? If he already has the equipment, what's the cost of doing it that way? Interesting that the understandable unwillingness to trundle a band all around the country to play smoky clubs filled with a phone-booth's full of people has translated into a fear (or so it would seem) of even doing what remains as eminently practical, low-cost, and (I would imagine - but for the "I can't crank up the pop music deployment mechanism anymore" fears) pleasurable home-recording -type dealies. - --Jeff, stroking his beard (*not* his PMDM) and displaying inkblots J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: Empire is incompatible with democracy. Democracy is founded on the :: rule of law, empire on the rule of force. Democracy is a system of :: self-determination, empire a system of military conquest. :: --Jonathan Schell ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #58 ******************************