From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #54 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, February 22 2003 Volume 03 : Number 054 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] This Saturday at Freddy's: George Harrison Tribute Benefit Concert [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] This Saturday at Freddy's: George Harrison Tribute Benefit Concert HARR-A-THON 2: SECOND ANNUAL BROOKLYN GEORGE HARRISON TRIBUTE CONCERT TO BENEFIT THE ARTHUR ASHE INSTITUTE FOR URBAN HEALTH Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:00pm sharp to 1:00am Freddy's Back Room 485 Dean Street btw Flatbush and 6th Aves Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, NY 11215 718-622-7035 http://www.freddysbackroom.com/ This concert features diverse, original, and talented performers interpreting the songs of the late George Harrison, The Coolest Beatle, in their own inimitable styles. There is no cover but donations will be accepted on behalf of the Arthur Ashe Institute for Urban Health. All money collected goes to the AAIUH - no administrative or other costs are deducted. These times are very general and subject to change: 9:00pm Here Comes The Sun - Andrew Wynne w/ Sharples If I Needed Someone, All Things Must Pass - The Pattyboyds Something - Dave Foster Give Me Love (Give Me Peace on Earth) - Philip Shelley All Those Years Ago, Cheer Down - Matt Dolingo Love You To - Matt Keating 10:00pm (these times are of course a general guideline) Here Comes The Moon - Skeeter Long, Long, Long, - Sharples & Skeeter Soft Hearted Hana - The Fatty Acids Not Guilty - Adam Cooper Only a Northern Song - Brian Stevens & Avram Gleitsman Old Brown Shoe, Isn't It a Pity - The Great Outdoors I'd Have You Anytime - Hilary Spiegelman 11:00pm Savoy Truffle, Don't Bother Me - Pleasure Mechanics I Need You, It's All Too Much - The Larch Taxman - Livia Hoffman w/The Larch While My Guitar Gently Weeps - Liza & The Wonder Wheels Any Road - Plastic Beef I Me Mine - Robin Aigner 12:00am If You Belonged To Me - Sharples My Sweet Lord, Blue Jay Way, Flying  Close to the Bone This is Love - Michael Culhane I Want to Tell You, Piggies - Spunk Lads Here Comes The Sun (Reprise) - The Krishna Kast of Thousands 1:00am http://www.arthurasheinstitute.org/ The Institute is a national tax-exempt charity headquartered in Brooklyn, NY. Its innovative community health education and research initiatives serve as models for replication in urban communities throughout the nation. To reduce morbidity and mortality from disease among the most vulnerable populations in our urban areas through improved access to care and increased health knowledge by:  Preventing illness & disease through health education in traditional and non- traditional settings;  Assuring availability of care through training in urban medicine and allied health disciplines;  Breaking down institutional and cultural barriers in urban health education and health care through conferences and seminars;  Seeking solutions through research; and,  Building bridges between the public, private and non-profit sectors through collaborations. For more Harr-a-Thon info call 718-336-8384 - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:20:39 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] Nick Heyward (ns) A few years ago I was going through a major obsession w/him brought on by "The Apple Bed" which is aptly described as the album that Paul McCartney should have made. I started buying stuff on eBay, but found that it was very hit and miss. Then, I pretty much forgot about him until I recently downloaded the Ivy "Guestroom" album on eMusic (Ivy is the band with that great guy Adam Schlesinger and some French chick) and realized, after a few days of ignorance, that that great New Order song that Ivy was covering ("Kite") was actually by Nick. It turns out that I even own the album that it was on, but had forgotten. So, I've decided to finish the job of collecting what needs to be collected by him. The "Hard Days Nick" ep seems like a no brainer. Is there anything else that's important to have? What about that mysterious OOP "Tangled" CD that gets 4 1/2 stars (but no actual review) on allmusic? And where is Stewart? - --dana np: John Kongos/Kongos (and any info on *his* other stuff would be greatly appreciated) ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:27:29 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Andy's Midtempoitis Pinnacles On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Miles Goosens wrote: > A friend of mine put off listening to Sonic Youth for years because he > kept associating them with Musical Youth. I still have this problem with Madder Rose and Mazzy Star. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:48:57 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Nick Heyward (ns) In a message dated 2/21/03 8:23:06 AM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << So, I've decided to finish the job of collecting what needs to be collected by him. The "Hard Days Nick" ep seems like a no brainer. Is there anything else that's important to have? What about that mysterious OOP "Tangled" CD that gets 4 1/2 stars (but no actual review) on allmusic? >> My best find at the last WFMU Record Fair was a $1 copy of the 3-track "He Doesn't Love You Like I Do" CD single, which includes a gorgeous acoustic version of "Kite." Otherwise, I get along just fine with "From Monday To Sunday" and "North Of A Miracle"...although the 9 bonus tracks don't really make the latter worth buying as a Japanese import. The "Tangled" album, like most other Heyward product, has one good song...."Carry On Loving," if I recall correctly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:28:20 -0000 From: "RichardBlatherwick" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Nick Heyward (ns) > A few years ago I was going through a major obsession w/him brought on by "The Apple Bed" which is aptly described as the album that Paul McCartney should have made. I started buying stuff on eBay, but found that it was very hit and miss. Then, I pretty much forgot about him until I recently downloaded the Ivy "Guestroom" album on eMusic (Ivy is the band with that great guy Adam Schlesinger and some French chick) and realized, after a few days of ignorance, that that great New Order song that Ivy was covering ("Kite") was actually by Nick. It turns out that I even own the album that it was on, but had forgotten. > > So, I've decided to finish the job of collecting what needs to be collected by him. The "Hard Days Nick" ep seems like a no brainer. Is there anything else that's important to have? What about that mysterious OOP "Tangled" CD that gets 4 1/2 stars (but no actual review) on allmusic? > > And where is Stewart? > > --dana I had a bit of a blitz on his stuff a couple of years ago. I can't decide which of his 90s solo albums I like best as all of them are a bit inconsistent, but well capable of turning up some gems. Tangled was by far the hardest to track down, even on eBay and it has a similar feel to The Apple Bed, if perhaps not as fully realised.. It does contain the wonderful Rollerblade though for some this is the one good track of the album. From Monday to Sunday has a rather lighter poppy feel and benefits from having the fabulous He doesn't love you like I do to kick it off. I have a harder time with his 80s solo stuff when his labels were still trying to produce mega-hits with him, so I tend to leave I Love You Avenue on the shelf and never got round to getting North of A Miracle, despite the multitude of extra tracks. Pelican West by his previous band Haircut 100 has some entertaining stuff on it, but also a fair amount of filler, imo. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:37:52 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume I came across an interesting sound sample that is a puzzle, and I wonder if folks with better ears and technical knowledge might know what's going on. Basically, this is an mp3 sample at a constant pitch, but the pitch seems to vary based on volume. That is, I can change the pitch (less than a half-step) just by fiddling with my volume control. It's an MP3 link, but is a very small download for those on dial-up: http://ff123.net/export/freq1.mp3 Any ideas? - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:11:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume Michael Mitton wrote: > I came across an interesting sound sample that is a puzzle, and I wonder > if folks with better ears and technical knowledge might know what's > going on. Basically, this is an mp3 sample at a constant pitch, but the > pitch seems to vary based on volume. That is, I can change the pitch > (less than a half-step) just by fiddling with my volume control. How loud are you playing it? Volume affects perceived pitch (louder = flatter), although the effect isn't very strong except at high volume. The mp3 in question doesn't sound steady in pitch to my ear; there are several wobbles and a distinct dip at the end. Could it be that your volume change just happened to coincide with that? What's the context? - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:34:13 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume > How loud are you playing it? Volume affects perceived pitch (louder = > flatter), although the effect isn't very strong except at high volume. Yes, that's what I'm hearing--louder is flatter. And, I'm not playing it very loudly. I'm only using the JBL speakers that came with my Compaq. There's no real context to the question. It came up on another message board and it seemed strange to me since, with my understanding of sound, pitch is independent of volume. So, why does volume affect perceived pitch? What's going on in either my ear or brain? > The mp3 in question doesn't sound steady in pitch to my ear; there are > several wobbles and a distinct dip at the end. Could it be that your > volume change just happened to coincide with that? This is amazing to me. I've listened to this sample 30 times now, and *I* can't here any wobbling or dipping. I'm not doubting your assessment at all. I'm amazed that anyone's ears could be so finely tuned. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:56:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume Michael Mitton wrote: >So, why does volume affect perceived > pitch? What's going on in either my ear or brain? I don't know if the effect has ever been explained, but it's definitely been measured. It can cause problems for musicians, especially those who play loud instruments such as trumpets; they hear the tone as being flatter than the audience does, and have to compensate. What's more, some keen-eared individuals can actually hear reverberation tails get sharper as they get softer! There are other ways in which the brain's idea of pitch can be decorrelated from the frequency of sound, the most well-known being phantom fundamentals, where the impression of a low fundamental is created by careful tuning of its first and second harmonics. Organ builders have been using this technique for centuries, and audio plug-ins like "Maxxbass" continue the tradition. >> The mp3 in question doesn't sound steady in pitch to my ear; there are >> several wobbles and a distinct dip at the end. Could it be that your >> volume change just happened to coincide with that? > > This is amazing to me. I've listened to this sample 30 times now, and > *I* can't here any wobbling or dipping. I'm not doubting your > assessment at all. I'm amazed that anyone's ears could be so finely > tuned. I could just as easily be wrong. Maybe we can get a third opinion. - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:51:27 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Tim Walters wrote: > >> The mp3 in question doesn't sound steady in pitch to my ear; there are > > > > This is amazing to me. I've listened to this sample 30 times now, and > > *I* can't here any wobbling or dipping. I'm not doubting your > > assessment at all. I'm amazed that anyone's ears could be so finely > > tuned. > > I could just as easily be wrong. Maybe we can get a third opinion. i haven't listened -- i've been doing audio stuff most of the day and anyway, as anyone who's heard my vocals will attest, my pitch sense isn't outstanding at the best of times -- but i'll offer an alternate hypothesis for discrepancies in mp3 playback aside from psychoacoustic effects: there's no guarantee that two different mp3 players on two different platforms will reproduce a given file exactly the same way, is there? what i know of mp3 compression principles leads me to think that something of (near) constant pitch would "game" the system to a certain extent (because a lot of the compression is based on the nature of changes in pitch and (for stereo) spatial information. (i read a great article recently that explained in some detail why cymbals in rock music, in particular, turn into such undifferentiated mush.) in addition you're going from the mp3 player through signal chains which may include coloration from computer speakers, etc. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:29:45 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume Quoting Michael Mitton : > > The mp3 in question doesn't sound steady in pitch to my ear; there are > > several wobbles and a distinct dip at the end. Could it be that your > > volume change just happened to coincide with that? > > This is amazing to me. I've listened to this sample 30 times now, and > *I* > can't here any wobbling or dipping. I'm not doubting your assessment at > all. I'm amazed that anyone's ears could be so finely tuned. I'm not sure: on the one hand, after reading Tim's post, I listened to it again, several times...and I did hear its unsteadiness and a dip near the end. However, the fact that I was *listening* for that makes me suspicious. Does anyone have equipment that can test whether, in fact, the pitch is steady? I don't know why louder tends flatter - but I too was able to perceive it flattening as I fiddled with my volume (although it tended to distort with my cheapo speakers before it flattened). I wonder if something to it might be that naturally occuring pitches *aren't* ever as steady as artificially generated ones...and that we therefore somehow generate apparent variances, or that the steadiness, being a difference from the usual variance, doesn't read as actual variation in pitch. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "am I being self-referential?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:32:26 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pitch and Volume Quoting Tim Walters : > There are other ways in which the brain's idea of pitch can be > decorrelated from the frequency of sound, the most well-known being > phantom fundamentals, where the impression of a low fundamental is > created > by careful tuning of its first and second harmonics. Organ builders have > been using this technique for centuries, and audio plug-ins like > "Maxxbass" continue the tradition. I once read an explanation of the power of the "power chord" along these lines: that the resonance of the root and open fifth creates an artificial pitch one octave lower than the root (i.e., on the E and A strings of a guitar, playing open E and a B creates the impression - with volume turned up - of the low E that normally would be the lowest bass guitar string). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #54 ******************************