From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #429 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, December 14 2002 Volume 02 : Number 429 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] A brief review of _Punch-Drunk Love_ [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffr] Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Jeffrey wit] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Dan Sallitt] Re:Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [dana-boy] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Two singers for the price of one [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) [A] Re: [loud-fans] Cheep Segway Back to LOTR [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] McGuinn/Petty [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) [] Re: [loud-fans] McGuinn/Petty ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) [] Re: [loud-fans] The "The" [zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu] Re: [loud-fans] The "The" [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] The "The" ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] The "The" [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] Re: McGuinn/Petty [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: McGuinn/Petty [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring ["John Swartzentruber" ] [loud-fans] Media Jukebox [Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] A brief review of _Punch-Drunk Love_ http://tinyurl.com/3i20 ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: crumple zones:::harmful or fatal if swallowed:::small-craft warning :: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:33:13 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring Quoting Matthew Weber : > At 10:55 PM -0600 12/12/02, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > >Surely, a film called _The Two Towers_ is more easily referred to as > 2T? Or > >to clarify, LOTR:2T? > But wouldn't that be "LR:2T", since we also leave out short > prepositions in abbreviations? Well there I was typing away when I felt an unpleasant hoisting feeling. "Oh," I said, turning around, "it's my petard again." "LOTR" would be another example, of course - I didn't even think of it, since I've seen it so often. In that case, though, I think it's because "LR" is insufficiently distinct w/o context. WPMAOASAFII! > See the happy moron, > He doesn't give a damn. > I wish I were a moron. > My God! Perhaps I am! > Eugenics Review, July 1929, 86/2 ! ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:57:54 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting dmw : > my hypothesis: > > the percentage of assholes in the population is consistent, and does > not > vary according to the chosen mode of transportation*. since the > driver > population is larger than either the pedestrian or bicycle population, > the > number of asshole drivers is larger. slower traffic will be exposed > to > more samples of faster traffic than traffic of its own speed, i.e., > cyclists will tend to encounter more cars than other bikes; > pedestrians > will encounter a greater percentage of the bikes travelling along a > given > route than percentage of the pedestrians. A corollary is that the larger and/or faster the vehicle, the more readily assholery may be expressed by its means: thus, more assholes qua assholes in cars; fewer a/q/a on bikes; fewer yet as peds...since it's difficult, really, to be an asshole ped. Second corollary: asshole pedestrianism generally expresses itself in actions prone to reduce the numbers of asshole pedestrians. (The classic example is my favorite ad from the very first round of "got milk?" ads, in which the arrogant businessjerk (from a time when yakking on a cell phone could still convey arrogant businessjerkness) steps in mid-yak into a roadway...whence he and the front end of a truck become close, nay inseparable (except via Jaws of Life) companions. ABj awakens in a white pillowy room, with billowy harp music et cet. "I must be in heaven," muses the (rather naive) ex-ABj, spotting a plateful of delicious, homemade chocolate chip cookies. Stuffing his face, he's in the midst of adjusting to his career change when he realizes...no milk in the fridge to wash down the cookies? Uh-oh...a miscalculation of postlife geography!) Consequence of first and second corollaries: the number of automotive assholes remains steady, while the number of bicycle-based and ped assholes is subject to reduction at the behest of the auto-assholes - thereby increasing the relative prominence of auto-oriented assholery. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "am I being self-referential?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:31:24 -0500 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) > A corollary is that the larger and/or faster the vehicle, the more readily > assholery may be expressed by its means: thus, more assholes qua assholes > in cars; fewer a/q/a on bikes; fewer yet as peds...since it's difficult, > really, to be an asshole ped. Interestingly, in Manhattan, where pedestrianism is rampant, it sometimes seems to pedestrians as if the bicycle is more threatening than the car. I think this is a result of custom: the unwritten laws of Manhattan traffic state that cars must obey a few minimum rules (like stopping at red lights), whereas pedestrians and bikes obey none at all. Which is probably one too many licenses granted, though I don't know if I favor a change in law enforcement. Giuliani tried to stop jaywalking, and frankly I resented him for it. Here, it's not only possible to be an asshole pedestrian, it's de rigueur. But it's always done in large groups, so it looks less like a transgressive act and more like a force of nature. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:29:30 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Interestingly, in Manhattan, where pedestrianism is rampant, it sometimes seems to pedestrians as if the bicycle is more threatening than the car. >>>>>>>>>>> I don't have exact statistics on hand, but I'll be willing to place a pretty large bet that a whole lot more pedestrians were killed/injured by cars/trucks than by bicycles in any given year. Not that this contradicts the above statement, since seeming is believing, but I think that any reasonable pedestrian should fear cars more. Aside from tourists who jump unexpectedly into the bike lane on the Brooklyn Bridge (and I can't hold that against them too much), I've had very few problems w/pedestrians since, like Dan says, they usually misbehave in large, slow moving packs that are easy to avoid. The #1 enemy is basically people getting out of cars. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:11:40 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Two singers for the price of one At 04:39 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, Steve Holtebeck wrote: >All four members of Sloan (Chris, Andrew, Dave, the other guy) write and >sing, but since everything is credited collectively to "Sloan" and their >styles are quite similar, it's hard to tell who does what unless you see >them live. Which you should, because they rock, loudly and tunefully! I'd like to -- they keep coming to Nashville on "school nights," and I keep missing them. Thanks for the info! FWIW, I really enjoy everything I've ever bought by them and haven't detected tunelessness at all, so I'm really not sure why I haven't taken the plunge into knowing more about them and snatching up the albums I'm missing. >Besides other ones already mentioned (Go-Betweens, Posies), I also >wasn't sure which of the three singers sang lead on which Teenage >Fanclub song until I saw them live. Terry Adams and Joey Sampinato of >NRBQ are also really hard for me to tell apart. I'll agree on all of those hard-to-distinguish-from-bandmates singers. I continue to be amazed that I must have been the only Loud-Fan who could tell Ric Ocasek from Ben Orr. I mean, I'm hardly a person who claims he can hear the grass grow... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:14:12 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) In a message dated 12/12/02 2:45:09 PM, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: << Wow, I guess JRT wins this one. I would have thought that when Orr died in October 2000, you might have seen an obit saying "Orr sang many of the Cars' biggest hits" ("Drive," "Just What I Needed," "Let's Go," "Candy-O"). >> Still here actually, although only checking infrequently from touring the States. (Laptop required to hack out the obligatory year-end stuff.) And, for the record, I've always thought it apparent that Orr was the crooner and Ocasek the rock guy. Still, I wouldn't goof on anybody who couldn't tell the difference...especially coming off the new-waveness of my favorite album of this year being from a member of Wall of Voodoo. (And, no, not Stan, who at least hinted of Americana.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:28:09 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Now here's some real news http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/12/13/offbeat.australia.mooning.reut/index.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:31:18 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] emusic alert (ns) On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 09:51 PM, Dana Paoli wrote: > Ok, I won't make a habit of this, but an absolute *ton* of neat stuff > just turned up on emusic. Artists include Harry Partch, some really > great Fall stuff, a lot of Branca, Soft Machine, Brendan Benson > (Lapalco), Mars, etc. I'm not kidding -- there's enough to keep my 56k > modem busy for the next week. Yikes!!! Speaking of Branca, can anyone recommend any of them as a starting place over the others? I have Symphony No. 6, which I like but don't find myself playing terribly often. Are there any that explore approaches beyond, say, pummeling? -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:38:24 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one At 06:57 PM 12/12/2002 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >For a change of pace: the opposite situation, where one singer seems to >change his or her vocal approach dramatically over time? The clearest >example I can think of is Julian Cope post-_Nation Underground_: the first >time I heard _Skellington_, I thought what the hell? Other examples: early >Joni Mitchell vs. later (I blame cigarettes), and Dylan doing his Dudley >Do-Right impersonation on _Nashville Skyline_. My example is Paul Weller, who sounded like Paul Weller in the Jam and even in jazzbo wannabe guise in the Style Council, but who seems to think he's a soul singer since his solo career began. Sam Cooke he ain't -- heck, I'm not even sure if he's Rick Astley. I mean, even when the Jam tackled R&B and Motown ("Heatwave," "Town Called Malice"), Weller still sang like himself. The songwriting on what I've heard of his solo stuff seems to be a nice recovery from the nadir of the Style Council, but I find his singing so laughable and/or unbearable now that I can't force myself to listen. setup spotted but posting anyway, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:38:08 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) http://tinyurl.com/3i7a -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:48:05 -0600 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] emusic alert (ns) Apart from what I'm downloading at Emusic as we speak, I have Symphony 6 and the Ascension. the Ascension is quite good, with an equal mix of pummeling and twisted melodicism, one particular piece where one gives way to the other quite nicely. I pull that out a lot more than Devil Choirs. In related news, I read in Allmusic that the "John Gavanti" release attributed to Mars/DNA is considered to be one of the most unlistenable albums ever recorded. Anybody agree or disagree? Chris On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 10:31 AM, Dave Walker wrote: > On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 09:51 PM, Dana Paoli wrote: > >> Ok, I won't make a habit of this, but an absolute *ton* of neat stuff >> just turned up on emusic. Artists include Harry Partch, some really >> great Fall stuff, a lot of Branca, Soft Machine, Brendan Benson >> (Lapalco), Mars, etc. I'm not kidding -- there's enough to keep my >> 56k >> modem busy for the next week. Yikes!!! > > Speaking of Branca, can anyone recommend any of them as > a starting place over the others? I have Symphony No. 6, > which I like but don't find myself playing terribly > often. Are there any that explore approaches beyond, > say, pummeling? > > -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Dave Walker wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/3i7a The more I read his online journal, the more I like Moby. Wish I could stand his music. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:01:01 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheep Segway Back to LOTR At 05:51 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, Matthew Weber wrote: >At 5:16 PM -0800 12/12/02, Tim Walters wrote: >>dmw wrote: >> > i'd estimate bombadil's plot importance as different from his >> > thematic/ontological presence. he provided some level of grounding for >> > me that made the whole mythos more effective in a way i'm having trouble >> > articulating. he seems quite explicitly celtic to me. but it's (gah!!) >> > two decades since i read the thing and i never did see the flick. so >> > mebbe i should shut up. >> >>No, you're absolutely right (except I'm not sure about the "explicitly >>celtic" part). But I guess I didn't expect the film, or any possible film >>of LOTR, to do more than scratch the surface in that regard. > >Celtic to the extent that any West Midlands nature spirit might be, I >guess. I always saw Bombadil as the embodiment of that part of >Middle-Earth; a sort of genius loci. Exactly (especially to the first part of what doug says, and what Matt just said). And the wholly omitted segment (the Old Forest/Old Man Willow, Bombadil, the Barrow Downs) between the Shire and Bree touches on so much that I find essential to the feel of the world, about nature, the land, the weather, ponies with names, Very Old Things... Like doug, I'm not sure I can articulate it, but I really did miss it in the film. The other part I really missed in the film of FELLOWSHIP was the business of getting Frodo away from Bag End -- I mean, they do this in the film, but in greatly elided fashion, since they leave out all the clever and bold things Merry and Pippen did in figuring out the things Frodo hadn't told them, planning his removal to his "new house" in Buckland, and in actually getting him there. Instead, Merry and Pippen come off in the movie as little more than bumbling goof-offs, there only for comic relief. However, Merry and Pippen have ample opportunities to display more qualities in their adventures from the next two books, and some of the nature/trees stuff we lost by the omission of Bombadil will get covered by the *definite* inclusion of Treebeard and the Ents (yay!), so maybe those omissions and emendations were OK choices when looking at the three films as a whole... And all of this is being said in the context of FELLOWSHIP being an incredible, delightful, wonderful movie, probably the best fantasy movie ever made. It's just that seeing so many of the wonders I had always pictured in my head come so vividly and splendidly to life makes me wish that the parts they left out had gotten the same chance. I guess I'll have to settle for naming some future cats "Wise-Nose" and "Swish-Tail." later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:04:00 -0500 From: mbowen@frontiernet.net Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Two singers for the price of one Miles Goosens writes: > I'll agree on all of those hard-to-distinguish-from-bandmates singers. I > continue to be amazed that I must have been the only Loud-Fan who could > tell Ric Ocasek from Ben Orr I haven't listened to the Cars for years, but if you play any given track I can tell you who's singing lead. The Roy Thomas Baker choir backing vocals, though, are a different story. MB, posting from MBUSA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:16:09 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring At 10:55 PM 12/12/2002 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Quoting Matthew Weber : > >> True indeed. I'm fidgeting impatiently waiting for TTT to open. > >Okay, someone mentioned this awhile ago, but...what is up with people >including articles in abbreviations? Conventionally, they're left out: I >blame _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ and the folks who started referring >to it as ST:TNG instead of ST:NG. That was me who mentioned it. As I said, the first "article in abbreviation" I remember going into wide use was THE SPORTING NEWS after its sale to the Times Mirror Company (TTMC?). Without warning, one issue started making all these "TSN" references and I think it took me a few minutes to realize that they were referring to themselves instead of something else ("Track Sluts Night"? "Topeka Slow Newts?"). The next prominent example I remember was the Nashville Network starting to call itself TNN. Now it's rebranded with a new name ("The National Network") to fit the same acronym, and it airs lots of ST:TNG. :-) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:35:43 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: [loud-fans] McGuinn/Petty > From: > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:52:16 +0000 > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) > > Slightly OT (off *this* topic, that is, 'cause OT is pretty well a given for > most posts to loud-fans), a track which has always freaked me out in this > regard is the Tom Petty / Roger McGuinn duet 'King of the Hill'. When they > sing alternate lines during the second verse and then go into harmony it's > like the aural equivalent of that 'Star Trek' episode where a transporter > accident splits Kirk into two people (which, incidentally, I saw again > recently, and I noticed it had been directed by Michael Penn's dad!). Long ago I heard an interview with Roger McGuinn, who said that the first time he heard Tom Petty's version of "American Girl," he spent several minutes wondering why he couldn't remember the recording session. John, who had no idea McGuinn and Petty did the theme song for "King of the Hill" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:20:59 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) At 11:50 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, Aaron Mandel wrote: >On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Dave Walker wrote: > >> http://tinyurl.com/3i7a > >The more I read his online journal, the more I like Moby. Wish I could >stand his music. > My sentiments exactly. I'm guessing this was a group of pissed-off Eminem fans, although in a story in today's Globe, the bouncer said he recognized at least one of them, so I dunno. Still, you really don't like to hear of assaults happening about six blocks from your house, at a club you frequent. Speaking of, if any of the Boston contingent are going to the Los Straitjackets show tomorrow night, come say hi. S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:29:30 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] McGuinn/Petty >Long ago I heard an interview with Roger McGuinn, who said that the first >time he heard Tom Petty's version of "American Girl," he spent several >minutes wondering why he couldn't remember the recording session. I for one have no problem telling McGuinn from Petty vocalwise, though in fairness I don't think I've heard "King Of The Hill." I do recall reading Petty telling one interviewer that "American Girl" features no 12-string guitar at all. "That's two six-strings dubbed one on top of the other," he said, approximately. "And that record must have moved more 12-string Rickenbackers out of shops than anything since 'Mr. Tambourine Man.'" I further recall Petty slagging disco somewhere else. And had to chuckle, remembering the breakdown in "American Girl"'s frickin' middle... Not a soul's mentioned Leonard "throat implosion" Cohen?!? Andy "7:07 a.m. Grey dawn. The silhouettes of bare trees slowly take shape against a sky several degrees darker than the porridge that I have just eaten. The branches, and the twigs that grow from them, wave in the freezing air. From my window I can see the shapes of people scuttling along the path in the nearby park, followed by the brake lights of the Civil Defence trucks. It has been several hours since the last Iraqi air raid. We are lucky, I suppose, here in West London, that the majority of collateral damage has been at Heathrow Airport, 15 miles away and now, obviously, uninhabited. Furthermore, the immense improvements in the homing devices in unmanned missiles since the V2 rockets that hit us at the end of W2 (the last time Britain suffered air raids) have meant that, barring the odd stray bomb pulverizing a mall or side street, the devastation has been confined to the former airport. At this stage, the bombing is largely for show. Britain is taking it on the chin; it is only the older people who remember the last time we were attacked who seem extremely upset. When the first Iraqi missiles struck, before the reintroduction here of petrol rationing, many families would actually drive out to Heathrow to watch the gradual demolition of this once-flourishing metropolis. When I say families, I mean mostly the men. Security, too, has been blasi by World War II standards. Today's smart missile can find you whether you are there or not: This time around, there's no black-out. Getting into my office this morning and switching on the light hasn't provoked any hassle from the wardens. Uh-oheither the tube-trains have woken up, or that was a stray coming down. I felt the house flicker just a moment in shock, then go back exactly the way it was. Hopefully it won't wake Michhle upstairs. I can hear Figgy jump off the chair outside my door, where I saw her sleeping on my crushed velvet trousers when I came in here with my tea. What amazes me is that I'm not more terrified. As Michhle said, it's scary what you can adjust to. Why, oh why, did the Iraqis refuse to believe us when we showed them, beyond doubt, that we do not have weapons of mass destruction? Every cupboard and cellar door was opened wide for their inspectors. To date, less than a thousand people have been killed here, according to the Daily Expressbut what happens when the sites are set on Central London? The rumor is that Britain does possess some kind of nuclear or biological bomb, but that Downing Street will not deploy it until (or preferably unless) Saddam Hussein orders an attack on Buckingham Palace." - --Robyn Hitchcock, from his diary entry for Monday, December 9, at http://slate.msn.com/?id=2075161&entry=2075197 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:53:14 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Moby, what's the frequency? (elliptical Scott content) On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 01:20 PM, Stewart Mason wrote: > I'm guessing this was a group of pissed-off Eminem > fans, although in a story in today's Globe, the bouncer said he > recognized > at least one of them, so I dunno. Not necessarily. Though he's mellowed it a bit as he's gotten older, Moby used to talk a lot of smack about people in the electronic music community, and earned himself quite a few enemies years before he was on Eminem's radar. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:57:15 -0600 From: zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The "The" Quoting Miles Goosens : > That was me who mentioned it. As I said, the first "article in abbreviation" I remember going into wide use was THE SPORTING NEWS after its sale to the Times Mirror Company (TTMC?). Without warning, one issue started making all these "TSN" references and I think it took me a few minutes to realize that they were referring to themselves instead of something else ("Track Sluts Night"? "Topeka Slow Newts?"). The next prominent example I remember was the Nashville Network starting to call itself TNN. Now it's rebranded with a new name ("The National Network") to > fit the same acronym, and it airs lots of ST:TNG. :-) > later, > > Miles > I would say this all started with band names - were The Beatles ever just - Beatles? The Who as another early examples - so I would say that the rule is if the "The" is considered to be the 1st word in the actual name, then using the "the" in the acronym is acceptable, so TSN & TNN both follow that rule. The Rolling Stones are one weird one. On some of their albums (cover at least), they are only Rolling Stones -- Let it Bleed as an example, but are The Rolling Stones on Beggars' Banquet. Of course, you could never use TB as an acroynm for the beatles -- it wouldn't be very clear why you were gushing about the musical stylings of tuberculosis. On singers, what are some Go-Betweens songs that Forrester/McClennan sound the same? I think of Forrester as the one with the more clumsy rhymes & flatter voice, like on Lee Remick as an example, and McClennan as more smooth, with usually less clumsy rhymes, like on 2 Steps Step Out. Streets of Your Town perhaps, though that "battered wives" line has to be Forrester. The Cars on the other hand, I never knew that other guy sang any of their songs except Drive until I saw a VH1 Classic video about a month ago with other guy singing. I thought the video was a joke at first. Another question: Is the pronounciation of "the" a regional thing? theeee (like wheee!) vs. thuh (like duh)? Andrew who wishes his bands' singer sounded more like him, instead of like a crappier version of a cross between the guy from Tool & the guy from Alice in Chains. np: INXS - The Deluxe Years Disk 2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:22:31 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The "The" Quoting zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu: > I would say this all started with band names - were > The Beatles ever just - Beatles? The Who as another > early examples - so I would say that the rule is if > the "The" is considered to be the 1st word in the > actual name, then using the "the" in the acronym is > acceptable, so TSN & TNN both follow that rule. No, putting "the" before plural nouns rather predates the Beatles. Names along the lines of "the Who" are a bit different - although you could hear that name as a response to not quite hearing the band's name the first time: "The mmbmbmmle-mbmmel has a new record out." "The who?" > The Rolling Stones are one weird one. On some of > their albums (cover at least), they are only Rolling > Stones -- Let it Bleed as an example, but are The > Rolling Stones on Beggars' Banquet. You're assuming either that typographers proofread more thoroughly on pop albums than is likely, or that graphic design dictates what the band's name is (a particularly annoying trend to those of us dwelling in the Geek Hotel - - just because your designer decides to lowercase your name, that doesn't mean every dumbass music magazine editor in the country has to follow suit. This is particularly true if you're, say, "matchbox twenty," to whom there's no good reason to refer anyway.) > Another question: Is the pronounciation of "the" a > regional thing? > theeee (like wheee!) vs. thuh (like duh)? It might be...although more often it's a matter of whether "the" is followed by a consonant (short vowel) or another vowel sound (long), or for emphasis: "You mean you saw *the* William Shatner at the urinal?" ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. :: That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! :: --Thomas Pynchon, _Vineland_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:28:20 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The "The" On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:22:31 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >> Another question: Is the pronounciation of "the" a >> regional thing? >> theeee (like wheee!) vs. thuh (like duh)? > >It might be...although more often it's a matter of whether "the" is >followed by a consonant (short vowel) or another vowel sound (long), or for >emphasis: "You mean you saw *the* William Shatner at the urinal?" I explained this to someone once (it is especially true in choral singing). The first response was "So is that also the difference between 'a' ["ay"] and 'a' ["uh"]?" And in case I'm making this person sound stupid, I'll say I had to stop and think before I answered. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:38:18 -0500 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The "The" on 12/13/02 2:57 PM, zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu at zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu wrote: > > Another question: Is the pronounciation of "the" a > regional thing? > theeee vs. thuh? I always thought you say theee (like wheee!) before a word that begins with vowel and the (like duh) for everything else. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:06:41 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The "The" At 01:57 PM 12/13/2002 -0600, zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu wrote: > I would say this all started with band names - were >The Beatles ever just - Beatles? The Who as another >early examples - so I would say that the rule is if >the "The" is considered to be the 1st word in the >actual name, then using the "the" in the acronym is >acceptable, so TSN & TNN both follow that rule. I just don't buy that rule. You omit articles in alphabetical filing (unless you're the radio station here that was doing a "Led Zeppelin A-Z" marathon, and responded to phone calls saying "you left out 'The Crunge'" by claiming that they were being "strictly correct" and playing it as a "T" title. Argh!). I don't think they should be part of acronyms either. But acronyms are now all-inclusive, not only incorporating leading articles but including any "a," "an," or "the" that ends up in the middle of the name. Every word gets its first letter kept, even if the word is "a." >Another question: Is the pronounciation of "the" a >regional thing? >theeee (like wheee!) vs. thuh (like duh)? As folks have been saying, I'd think "theeeee" before a vowel or for emphasis, but "thuh" (I'd put a schwa there, but smoe.org's demime would just make it into something else) all the rest of the time. Not regional to my knowledge. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:17:07 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] Re: McGuinn/Petty John Cooper wrote: > Long ago I heard an interview with Roger McGuinn, who said that the > first time he heard Tom Petty's version of "American Girl," he spent > several minutes wondering why he couldn't remember the recording > session. To further confuse things, McGuinn also recorded "American Girl", and his version came out around the same time as Petty's. In fact, I think Tom wrote the song for Roger to sing. It's like the Records and Searchers near-identical versions of "Hearts in Her Eyes", released a few years later. I've often suspected that Tom Petty decided to cover "Needles and Pins" and "So You Want To Be A Rock and Roll Star" on his live album to alleviate his guilt about borrowing those two songs early in his career, and retitling them "Listen To Her Heart" and "American Girl". > John, who had no idea McGuinn and Petty did the theme song > for "King of the Hill". The Petty/McGuinn "King of the Hill" song is from Roger Mc Guinn's BACK FROM RIO album, a good few years before Hank Hill's TV show. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:26:01 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: McGuinn/Petty At 01:17 PM 12/13/2002 -0800, Steve Holtebeck wrote: >John Cooper wrote: >> John, who had no idea McGuinn and Petty did the theme song >> for "King of the Hill". > >The Petty/McGuinn "King of the Hill" song is from Roger Mc Guinn's >BACK FROM RIO album, a good few years before Hank Hill's TV show. I think our JDC was making a joke here. later, Miles, who wonders if Bif Naked exists outside of TV shows on the WB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 00:16:06 -0000 From: "Phil Gerrard" Subject: [loud-fans] 'Oo, 'uh', 'oh yeah, all right' Jeff: >Names along the lines of "the Who" are a bit different - although >you could hear that name as a response to not quite hearing the >band's name the first time: "The mmbmbmmle-mbmmel has a >new record out." "The who?" According to Dave Marsh (I know, I know), Townshend had to be talked into accepting the name 'The Who' as one of his original preferences for a band name was 'The Hair'. He apparently suggested the compromise 'The Hair and the Who' and was promptly reminded that he was supposed to be naming a band, not a surrealist pub... Carolyn wrote: > I always thought you say theee (like wheee!) before a word that begins > with vowel and the (like duh) for everything else. Ohhhh, the 'neutral vowel' ('uh' sound) argument, much beloved of English drama school speech tutors. Please excuse me, but having been reminded of that I think I need a long lie down now. peace & love phil PS I can hear 'Needles and Pins' and, for that matter 'Feel a Whole Lot Better' in 'Listen to Her Heart', but I always thought 'American Girl' as a song owed more to Bo Diddley than the Byrds - really. To me, the 12-string sound is a red herring. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 19:42:32 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring Quoting me : > > WPMAOASAFII! > > well, poke my ass off and stick a fork in it? Close - "well paint my ass orange and stick a flower in it!" From some story in the web a couple of years ago - from Germany, of course. Someone (and my memory's muddled, so the details are...sketchy) for some vaguely artistic reason ended up stuck ass-up in sort of a cat-door like entryway, and somehow his ass ended up painted orange, and some passersby decided that, uh, some floral decoration was in order. Doing a search, I can't find anything on this...and yet I think both myself and Stewart independently had run into the story...anyone? Bueller? ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 20:52:18 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 19:42:32 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Someone >(and my memory's muddled, so the details are...sketchy) for some vaguely >artistic reason ended up stuck ass-up in sort of a cat-door like entryway, >and somehow his ass ended up painted orange, and some passersby decided >that, uh, some floral decoration was in order. I don't think he was stuck for some vaguely artistic reason, but I think people didn't help him because they thought it was because of the orange paint and the flower. I don't really remember more than that, but will vouch that it was a story that was at one time outside of your head. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 19:52:35 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring Quoting Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey : > Quoting me : > > > > WPMAOASAFII! > > > > well, poke my ass off and stick a fork in it? > > Close - "well paint my ass orange and stick a flower in it!" From some > story in the web a couple of years ago - from Germany, of course. > Someone > (and my memory's muddled, so the details are...sketchy) for some > vaguely > artistic reason ended up stuck ass-up in sort of a cat-door like > entryway, > and somehow his ass ended up painted orange, and some passersby > decided > that, uh, some floral decoration was in order. Ha! I did a bit more searching, and found this: http://www.snopes.com/spoons/legends/burpus.htm As the URL might suggest, this turns out to be (unsurprisingly) an urban legend. (I like "orange" better, btw...) ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. :: That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! :: --Thomas Pynchon, _Vineland_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:13:44 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Media Jukebox I've been searching for the past few weeks to find a music player for my computer that I really liked, and after trying out 15-20 of them, I finally found what I wanted: Media Jukebox (mediajukebox.com) It has playback support for basically everything, and encoding support for all the good stuff (OGG, MP3 (LAME), APE, WMA, or any other encoder that you want to use on your own if you just tell it what encoder to use). It's really easy to use, and is totally customizable. The sound editor in the full version allows you to break up your MP3 (or whatever) file into smaller ones, if, for example, you need to extract just a portion of an MP3. It has a secure mode for reading CDs. It saves files where you tell it to save them, including album art. It's not constantly trying to get me to buy CDs (why does MM do this--I just put the damn CD in the computer; I don't need to buy a second copy) Anyway, I'll shut up now. But I just thought I'd point it out in case anyone else was bugged by their own media player. - --Michael ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #429 *******************************