From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #427 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, December 12 2002 Volume 02 : Number 427 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Michael Mit] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [JRT456@aol.] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Jeffrey wit] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Chris Prew ] Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [] [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Miles Goose] Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Stewart Mas] Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one [OptionsR@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Michael Mit] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) ["Roger Wins] [loud-fans] testing ["Roger Winston" ] Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Dave Walker] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [John Sharpl] Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) [Aaron Mande] Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one ["Michael Zwirn" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > grand, glorious, incredible, and wonderful Segway. Yes, you too (for a mere > five grand) can putter about like a dork at 12 mph, running over > pedestrians or getting run over by cars and bikes, just to show that you > *have* five thousand dollars to waste. > > Seriously - who the hell is this thing for? (Other than engineers to look > at the schematics and drool) I think you're being too hard on the Segway. 12 mph is faster than the average commuting speed in a car in all of the big cities in the country. Total annual costs for a car (operating + amortized capital costs + insurance) average about $7,000. So it's not that slow, nor is it that expensive, relatively speaking. If you agree that congestion in cities is a problem, and that people avoid buses because they're slower and don't take you exactly where you want to go, then even if Segway isn't the right solution, it seems to be the right idea for a solution. 2,000 pounds of metal, with a 10% efficient gasoline engine seems like overkill when all it's used for is to transport one person five miles to and from work. And, it has to be safer than a bike, for both the rider and pedestrians. - --Michael, who's a bike racer, but recognizes there are legitimate reasons why people don't want to bike to work. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:51:09 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) The classic pairing of identical voices seems to remain Ocasek and Orr. I remember Ric once being really proud of how people could never tell them apart. About to begin a leisurely drive down South for the holidays, so Merry Christmas, folks. Maybe we'll all get the fine present of a new Senate Majority Leader. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:37:49 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, dmw wrote: > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > > Okay, just because...musical content: ever noticed how there've been a > > number of bands with second vocalists who sound pretty similar to the main > > vocalist? > > there are a few bands in which i didn't realize there were two vocalists > singing lead on different tunes til i saw 'em live. heatmiser, for sure. > xtc's moulding and partridge could both sing quite a bit like each other > when inclined to. uh, my band has gotten this comment a lot too. I don't really hear it w/XTC, but... Sonny & Cher. Seriously - their tones are very similar, esp. when they sang in the same range: check out "I Got You Babe" where they trade off verses. And there was a local act (featuring Tim Buckley from the Blow Pops) Wobble Test, whose other singer was very close tonally. I always have to mentally visualize who was singing when I listen to the tapes in order to tell who sings what. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:40:59 -0600 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 10:46 PM, dmw wrote: > > > there are a few bands in which i didn't realize there were two > vocalists > singing lead on different tunes til i saw 'em live. heatmiser, for > sure. > xtc's moulding and partridge could both sing quite a bit like each > other > when inclined to. uh, my band has gotten this comment a lot too. > > As has mine. Apparently my singing-along-with-Scott-trained tenor is a bit too close to our female bass players alto. Its a bit disturbing. Chris np: Slanted & Enchanted re-release ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:52:16 +0000 From: Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Jeff - > > > Okay, just because...musical content: ever noticed how there've been a > > > number of bands with second vocalists who sound pretty similar to the main > > > vocalist? > Sonny & Cher. Seriously - their tones are very similar, esp. when they > sang in the same range: check out "I Got You Babe" where they trade off > verses. Slightly OT (off *this* topic, that is, 'cause OT is pretty well a given for most posts to loud-fans), a track which has always freaked me out in this regard is the Tom Petty / Roger McGuinn duet 'King of the Hill'. When they sing alternate lines during the second verse and then go into harmony it's like the aural equivalent of that 'Star Trek' episode where a transporter accident splits Kirk into two people (which, incidentally, I saw again recently, and I noticed it had been directed by Michael Penn's dad!). peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) > > Sonny & Cher Nah, I could always tell Sonny and Cher apart, but I often have trouble telling Elton John apart from Cher (esp. on stuff like "Levon"). And you never see those two in the same Bob Mackie dress....hmmm... I've long noticed how singers in the same band sound alike! The primary example was of course the Fabs...I think Daltrey and Townsend often would do imitations of each other...for years I didn't know that Rick Neilsen sang the bridge to "Dream Police" (again, I think it's cross-imitation). Barry Hay and George Kooymans of Golden Earring. XTC, Heatmiser, yes. Here's one: Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie! I like how they pretend to be one lead singer, double-tracked, on "Hold Me", "Don't Stop" and others. Some of it might be by conscious effort: i.e., when The Edge or Mike Mills sings, they seem to be deliberately singing in the distinct vocal style their bands are known for. Likewise, Strummer and Jones, and Chilton and Bell sounded less like each other once they split up. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:17:56 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) John Sharples on 12/12/2002 8:40:41 AM wrote: > XTC, Heatmiser, yes. You people who think that Andy and Colin sound the same vocally are totally and utterly insane. That's not a value judgement on my part - it's fact. What have you guys been smoking? Lately, I would include Robert and Hilary of the Apples In Stereo in the soundalike category. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:41:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Sharples wrote: > I've long noticed how singers in the same band sound alike! The primary > example was of course the Fabs...I think Daltrey and Townsend often would do > imitations of each other...for years I didn't know that Rick Neilsen sang the > bridge to "Dream Police" (again, I think it's cross-imitation). Agreed on Daltrey and Townshend, to an extent (I can always tell them apart...but I wasn't always able to do so), and yes on the Cheap Trick. But what the hell have you been smoking to imagine that Paul & JOhn sound at all alike? > Some of it might be by conscious effort: i.e., when The Edge or Mike Mills > sings, they seem to be deliberately singing in the distinct vocal style their > bands are known for. Likewise, Strummer and Jones, and Chilton and Bell > sounded less like each other once they split up. Were we talking about hearing loss earlier? Okay, the Edge & Bono, to an extent - but Mikes Mills & Stipe? Strummer and Jones?? Yeesh... I sound *just like* all of the singers we've mentioned, by the way. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I feel that all movies should have things that happen in them:: __TV's Frank__ np: X _Beyond & Back_ disc 2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:09:41 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey : > But what the hell have you been smoking to imagine that Paul & JOhn sound > at all alike? Mostly chronic, but a little crack on the weekends is not out of the question. Why? Dude: George sounded alternately like John or Paul in the early years (George sings "Chains", didja know that?). > Were we talking about hearing loss earlier? Okay, the Edge & Bono, to an > extent - but Mikes Mills & Stipe? Strummer and Jones?? Yeesh... Dude, take a tablet: that's my point. I don't think they necessarily have similar *voices*, but I think they deliberately aped each other's singing styles to an extent, for stylistic unity. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:24:29 -0500 From: mbowen@frontiernet.net Subject: [loud-fans] Re: useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) What always caught my attention was the Classic British Band Model: the charismatic lead singer with the "good" voice along with the (lead) guitarist/co-writer with the odd tenor. Cf. The Stones, The Who, The Kinks, The Clash. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:30:09 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Agreed on soundalikes: Anderson/Squire, McLennan/Forster, Gabriel/Collins (at least through the early Genesis records and even into the first couple of post-Gabriel ones), Linnell/Flans, Stringfellow/Auer (I try to remember who sings what from seeing them live, but still fail to remember on a lot of songs when I'm back home with the albums). Totally disagree: Strummer/Jones, Lennon/McCartney most of the time, Partridge/Moulding, Daltrey/Townshend (though seeing them on this list makes me wonder if I'm wrong about some of my Who assumptions!), Stipe/Mills, Bono/Edge (Edge sounds a *lot* more like Eno, with whom he shares backing vox on a lot of tracks -- though he doesn't sound like Eno at all on "Numb"). I had no idea that Brad Shepherd sang "Mars Needs Guitars!" until I saw the Hoodoo Gurus live. I still presume Dave Faulkner on most things (as it was on all the other songs that evening), but there's probably more than that one track with Brad's lead vocals. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:24:57 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting Miles Goosens : > Totally disagree: Strummer/Jones, Lennon/McCartney I never said "Lennon/McCartney", dammit!!! "Screw you guys." - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:40:21 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:[loud-fans] Re: useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) What always caught my attention was the Classic British Band Model: the charismatic lead singer with the "good" voice along with the (lead) guitarist/co-writer with the odd tenor. Cf. The Stones, The Who, The Kinks, The Clash. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, if I may, this ties in with one of my theories about the decline of indie-rock being caused by the growing number of songwriters who don't bother to find a charismatic lead singer, and instead do the singing themselves, with predictably boring results. I have trouble telling Lee from Thurston sometimes. Has Robyn Hitchcock's diary on Slate been mentioned? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) I had no idea David Gilmour sang some Pink Floyd songs instead of Roger Waters until somebody told me. I still don't know which. And Roy Harper sang "Have A Cigar" without me suspecting a thing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:46:34 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:43:44 -0800 (PST), Tim Walters wrote: >I had no idea David Gilmour sang some Pink Floyd songs instead of Roger >Waters until somebody told me. After their big split, I remember reading how pissed off Gilmour was when told that he wasn't singing some songs as well as Waters had. And Gilmour had been the one singing them originally. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:01:18 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) At 12:24 PM 12/12/2002 -0500, John Sharples wrote: >Quoting Miles Goosens : > >> Totally disagree: Strummer/Jones, Lennon/McCartney > > >I never said "Lennon/McCartney", dammit!!! > > > "Screw you guys." You didn't say this? >On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Sharples wrote: > >> I've long noticed how singers in the same band sound alike! The primary >> example was of course the Fabs... Anyway... Added to the "disagree" pile: Ocasek/Orr. If JRT was right about Ric bragging about their identicalness, I hate to inform Ric that they failed spectacularly. At least to my ears, it seems real easy to distinguish the singer of "Just What I Needed" and "Drive" from the singer of "Let the Good Times Roll" and "You Might Think." Ocasek seems way twitchier, removed, and sarcastic, and Orr seems more straightforward, sincere, full-throated, and smooth. JRT's view, it must be said, is bolstered by the Trouser Press' Cars entry: "virtually interchangeable lead singers Ocasek and Orr..." later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:01:36 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting Miles Goosens : > >I never said "Lennon/McCartney", dammit!!! > > You didn't say this? > > >On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Sharples wrote: > > > >> I've long noticed how singers in the same band sound alike! The > primary > >> example was of course the Fabs... Miles, yer givin' me agita. The Beatles had *four lead singers*. Are you getting all your mail? I never said Lennon and McCartney sang alike!! ...although sometimes they did. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:15:34 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) After 24 years, this is really and truly the first time I've read that the Cars had more than one lead singer. I guess I've never read much about them, although they were the band that introduced me to the new wave. When I think about it, I can see the differences between the singers of "Just What I Needed" and "You Might Think," but I always assumed it was just Ocasek's growth as a singer! On the other hand, I've never had any trouble telling Gilmour and Waters apart. > From: Miles Goosens > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:01:18 -0600 > To: quercian rosicrucian psychobabble > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) > > At 12:24 PM 12/12/2002 -0500, John Sharples wrote: >> Quoting Miles Goosens : >> >>> Totally disagree: Strummer/Jones, Lennon/McCartney >> >> >> I never said "Lennon/McCartney", dammit!!! >> >> >> "Screw you guys." > > You didn't say this? > >> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Sharples wrote: >> >>> I've long noticed how singers in the same band sound alike! The primary >>> example was of course the Fabs... > > Anyway... > > Added to the "disagree" pile: Ocasek/Orr. If JRT was right about Ric > bragging about their identicalness, I hate to inform Ric that they failed > spectacularly. At least to my ears, it seems real easy to distinguish the > singer of "Just What I Needed" and "Drive" from the singer of "Let the Good > Times Roll" and "You Might Think." Ocasek seems way twitchier, removed, > and sarcastic, and Orr seems more straightforward, sincere, full-throated, > and smooth. > > JRT's view, it must be said, is bolstered by the Trouser Press' Cars > entry: "virtually interchangeable lead singers Ocasek and Orr..." > > later, > > Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:27:36 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] Reap Given the number of BUFFY/ANGEL fans on these lists, I'm surprised this hasn't made the rounds: Glenn Quinn -- Doyle on Season 1 of ANGEL, and Mark (Becky's husband) on ROSEANNE. OD'd, apparently. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:31:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Tim Walters wrote: > I had no idea David Gilmour sang some Pink Floyd songs instead of Roger > Waters until somebody told me. I still don't know which. And Roy Harper > sang "Have A Cigar" without me suspecting a thing. Herein lies, I think, the rub. Unless you knkow there are two singers, or they are miles apart in style or range (John Doe/Exene), it's tough to know whether it's the same singer doing a different style or two people sharing similar styles. Until I read more about Floyd, I didn't know there were two vocalists. As for Collins/Gabriel, I can spot 'em a mile off. Same w/ Anderson/Squire (Chris has a lower range) and Mills/Stipe, but I wouldn't expect anyone not familiar with the band to absolutely know the difference. In fact, it makes much sense that two vocalists in a band would sound alike, since they're usually trying to create harmony, which usually requires singing in the same range. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:34:24 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] xtc defense "this world over" -- andy or colin? no cheating! i think there are others, too. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:40:37 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense At 01:34 PM 12/12/02 -0500, dmw wrote: >"this world over" -- andy or colin? no cheating! > >i think there are others, too. For the first half of the song it seems to the casual listener as though it could be either, but the little ornament on "you sadly grin" removes all doubt. It's Andy, indeed. Colin = chirpy, Andy = throaty. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 5, verse 13 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:48:46 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) John Sharples wrote: >Miles, yer givin' me agita. The Beatles had *four lead singers*. Are you >getting all your mail? > >I never said Lennon and McCartney sang alike!! > >...although sometimes they did. Well, you said the first general "Beatles" thing, then there was the "George used to sing like Paul and John" message, and now this. Can we safely say now that you *have* finally said it? :-) the JDC wrote: >After 24 years, this is really and truly the first time I've read that the >Cars had more than one lead singer. I guess I've never read much about them, >although they were the band that introduced me to the new wave. When I think >about it, I can see the differences between the singers of "Just What I >Needed" and "You Might Think," but I always assumed it was just Ocasek's >growth as a singer! Wow, I guess JRT wins this one. I would have thought that when Orr died in October 2000, you might have seen an obit saying "Orr sang many of the Cars' biggest hits" ("Drive," "Just What I Needed," "Let's Go," "Candy-O"). FWIW, Ocasek wrote almost everything and co-wrote the rest, and they did share vocals on some songs. I've Googled around for a comprehensive "who sang what" listing but come up short. >On the other hand, I've never had any trouble telling Gilmour and Waters >apart. Me neither, actually. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:39:11 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense Quoting dmw : > "this world over" -- andy or colin? no cheating! I always thought Andy, but am I wrong? I usually have no problem telling those two apart - Colin sounds like a less eccentric version of Andy. Aaahh, THE BIG EXPRESS! That is one solid album, and one of their most underappreciated, I think. And you can get it cheap on CD, w/bonus tracks, no less. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:56:47 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) At 03:26 AM 12/12/2002 -0500, Michael Mitton wrote: >I think you're being too hard on the Segway. 12 mph is faster than the >average commuting speed in a car in all of the big >cities in the country. Are you talking highways or surface streets? So where exactly are they supposed to ride the fuckers? On the streets? Bikes are relatively nimble and small and can zip around things like double-parked trucks. What's a Segway supposed to do in that situation? It's just big enough that it would be in the way for motorists. Bike lanes are no good -- although the bike lanes in Boston/Cambridge are a death trap waiting to happen anyway -- because the Segways aren't traveling at the same rate of speed as the bikes, and they're too wide for a bicyclist to pass without veering into the car lane, and as we learned from Mary Hansen's death this week, that usually ends in tears. And if I ever see one on a sidewalk, I'm going to jump on top of them and steer them into the path of an oncoming semi. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. Not skateboarders, certainly not bicyclists (I'm still cranky about the bicyclist who knocked me to the ground and then *didn't even stop* on the sidewalk in Albuquerque's Nob Hill area), and definitely not assholes on top of their new motorized playthings. >If you agree that congestion in cities is a problem, and that people avoid >buses because they're slower and don't take you exactly where you want to >go, then even if Segway isn't the right solution, it seems to be the right >idea for a solution. No, the right idea for a solution is to take the bus/subway/streetcar/whatever and then SUCK IT UP AND WALK FOUR OR FIVE BLOCKS to wherever you're going. I fail to understand how this is such an outrageous imposition on any person short of, say, my stroke-impaired father-in-law, who walks with both a cane and tremendous difficulty. (Yet even *he* takes the dog out twice a day, so it's hardly impossible.) S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] xtc defense On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Sharples wrote: > Quoting dmw : > > > "this world over" -- andy or colin? no cheating! > > I always thought Andy, but am I wrong? no, but i think his phrasing is very (deliberately, i suspect) colin'y. it's sung in a more legato style than the typical andy tune, i say. > Aaahh, THE BIG EXPRESS! That is one solid album, and one of their most > underappreciated, I think. And you can get it cheap on CD, w/bonus tracks, no > less. yeah! and the bonus tracks are really pretty strong, considering. - -- d. np econoghost _anneu'ed!_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:01:26 EST From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one In a message dated 12/12/2002 11:32:35 AM US Mountain Standard Time, jmmallon@joescafe.com writes: > Unless you knkow there are two singers, or > they are miles apart in style or range (John Doe/Exene), it's tough to > know whether it's the same singer doing a different style or two people > sharing similar styles. I agree. For a very long time, I thought Chris Bailey sang the lead on The Saints' "Private Affair", with Ed Kuepper taking over on the chorus. Turns out it's just a double-tracked Bailey, singing the chorus in a plain dry manner very similar to Kuepper's. Same goes for the songs on "Prehistoric Sounds" (specifically "Everything's Fine") that Kuepper wrote without Bailey. Ed says he never sang on any of The Saints' recordings in an interview that was in either Bucketfull Of Brains or Big Takeover. Everything's fine, carry on, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:16:38 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > Are you talking highways or surface streets? Point to point, however they get there. > So where exactly are they supposed to ride the fuckers? On the streets? > Bikes are relatively nimble and small and can zip around things like > double-parked trucks. What's a Segway supposed to do in that situation? > It's just big enough that it would be in the way for motorists. Bike lanes Actually, the Segway is about the same width as a bicycle's handlebars. It's also laterally stable so you don't need to give it as much extra room as bikers, who tend to weave around while they ride. The Segway is also more nimble than a bike--easier to steer, faster to stop. If a bike can get around, then I don't know why a Segway couldn't. > are no good -- although the bike lanes in Boston/Cambridge are a death trap > waiting to happen anyway -- because the Segways aren't traveling at the > same rate of speed as the bikes, and they're too wide for a bicyclist to > pass without veering into the car lane, and as we learned from Mary > Hansen's death this week, that usually ends in tears. I don't see this as a problem. When I'm on my bike, I pass other bikers all the time. Sometimes I have to wait until the car lane is clear. Sometimes I have to wait until we get to a traffic light and I ask to jump ahead. That's just the way these things go, and it's really no different for cars. Besides, here in Oregon, when there isn't room for a car to safely pass a bike without going into another lane of traffic, then the biker is *obligated* to ride in the middle of the car lane to keep cars from trying to squeeze by. I have absolutely no problem forcing cars to wait until it's safe to pass me, and I don't see why a Segway rider can't expect the same from bikes. You may still think they aren't safe to ride on streets (I know plenty of people who would never ride their bikes where I do, yet I do more than 3000 miles per year for ten years and have had only one accident), which is fair enough. But we can can certainly expect bikers to pay the same respect to a Segway that cars have to pay to bikes. (It should be said that Segways can go faster than 12 MPH--the current version has a recommended speed of 12, but can go up to 18. Apparently, they can push the technology quite safely to over 50 MPH, but that's a harder sell safety-wise, and too big a drain of energy on batteries.) > Sidewalks are for > pedestrians. Not skateboarders, certainly not bicyclists (I'm still cranky I agree (though more than 15 states have disagreed and given Segways sidewalk rights). Where should Segways, and all the other motorized scooters out there that come at 1/10 the price be allowed? On the streets, with the same rights and obligations as a biker. > No, the right idea for a solution is to take the > bus/subway/streetcar/whatever and then SUCK IT UP AND WALK FOUR OR FIVE > BLOCKS to wherever you're going. I fail to understand how this is such an > outrageous imposition on any person short of, say, my stroke-impaired I also agree, but our indignation does little to change the minds of lazy people. Except, buses are quite a bit slower than cars. Downtown Portland from where I live is 40 minutes by bus and 15 by car. See? We don't need Mark around to hit Stewart's hot buttons. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:35:51 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Miles Goosens on 12/12/2002 11:48:46 AM wrote: > Wow, I guess JRT wins this one. I would have thought that when Orr died in > October 2000, you might have seen an obit saying "Orr sang many of the > Cars' biggest hits" ("Drive," "Just What I Needed," "Let's Go," > "Candy-O"). Yeah, I gotta go with JRT on the Cars. I vaguely remember seeing Orr sing lead in the video for Drive(?), but in no way did I infer that meant he sang lead on other songs as well. They all sound like Ocasek to me. It never occured to me that Andy might sound like Colin on This World Over. Always sounded like Andy to me. I've got one for Sharples and other BOC experts out there. Okay, Buck Dharma is always easy to pick out (except on songs like Godzilla where everyone seems to be singing at once), but do you ever have problems distinguishing between Eric, Albert and Joe? I kinda figured it was Joe who sang most of the songs he wrote solo (like Hot Rails To Hell), but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between Joe and Albert. And can Albert sound like Eric sometimes, or vice-versa? I always figured that Eric sang all of SECRET TREATIES except for Cagey Cretins, which I assumed was Albert. Is that right? Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:52:11 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: [loud-fans] testing Testing... I'm suddenly not able to receive or send List mail... Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:57:05 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one Joe: > Unless you knkow there are two singers, or > they are miles apart in style or range (John Doe/Exene), it's tough to > know whether it's the same singer doing a different style or two people > sharing similar styles. I'll buy that, but judging from the response to this thread, we're likely to have different perceptions of what "miles apart" and "similar" are! To sort of reverse-engineer this, back in 1977-79 when I was just getting interested in music, liking and learning about everything on the radio, and really learning about popular music in general, I was surprised to learn that familiar radio songs "Dreams," "Go Your Own Way," and "You Make Lovin' Fun" were all by the same band -- I had always thought that these were three different artists, and little did I know they were all in the same group. Another one for the multiple singers front: I'm a casual fan of Sloan -- I have what is probably a majority of their albums and I like all of those albums, but I can't name even one person in the band. I do understand that they swap instruments and all write and all sing, but I've never been able to tell who's doing what. Or do just one or two guys sing all of 'em? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:39:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: [loud-fans] Cheap Ring To anyone thinking about buying the dance remix of FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING (a 4-DVD set with a longer version of the film and two discs full of extras): Costco has it for $26 (as opposed to $60 at Amazon). I'm not sure how something so new can show up so cheap; it doesn't *look* pirated... We watched the first half last night. Most of the extra scenes add value, and give a little breathing space. The added description of hobbits at the beginning is a bit much. I really miss the big screen on this one, but the DVD is nice to have. - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:00:21 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) My classic soundalikes are Glenn Mercer and Bill Million of the Feelies, who not only sounded alike vocally but played guitar more or less identically as well. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:52:25 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting Miles Goosens : > Well, you said the first general "Beatles" thing, then there was the > "George used to sing like Paul and John" message, and now this. Can we > safely say now that you *have* finally said it? :-) Said what? Rog reminds me off-list: for years I assumed BOC's Eric Bloom sang "Dominance and Submission" on SECRET TREATIES, but it's the drummer, Albert Bouchard. It's not that it sounds anything like Eric, but Eric took over singing it live some time before I started seeing them, so I just assumed it was him on the record. BOC is a good one. Buck and Eric are pretty distinctive but the others (esp. the Bouchard brothers, natch) tend to blur a bit. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:13:42 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Roger Winston wrote: > You people who think that Andy and Colin sound the same vocally are > totally and utterly insane. That's not a value judgement on my part - > it's fact. What have you guys been smoking? I found out a few years ago that many people don't know who sings "Life Begins At The Hop". I can tell them apart sometimes, but I think they have imitated each other at various times. The guys from They Might Be Giants definitely fall into that category of people who are easy to tell apart once you know there are two singers. At least, they were for me. Back when Silkworm had three singers, I was often at a loss for who was who. With Phelps gone it's a little easier. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:08:34 -0800 From: "Michael Zwirn" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one > Another one for the multiple singers front: I'm a casual fan of Sloan -- I > have what is probably a majority of their albums and I like all of those > albums, but I can't name even one person in the band. I do understand that > they swap instruments and all write and all sing, but I've never been able > to tell who's doing what. Or do just one or two guys sing all of 'em? I'm really casual about Sloan too ... but had the odd experience of sitting down for awhile with Chris, who basically seems like the leader of the group, while some teenage fans of the group did a very ad hoc interview with him. I was really charmed and enjoyed the experience, until I heard Sloan play and they basically bludgeoned my poor ears to death with a deafeningly loud, quite tuneless, show. n.p. Aimee Mann, Bachelor No. 2 - ------ Michael Zwirn, michael@zwirn.com http://zwirn.com (t) 503-232-8919 (c) 503-887-9800 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:23:39 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) John Sharples on 12/12/2002 2:52:25 PM wrote: > Rog reminds me off-list: for years I assumed BOC's Eric Bloom sang "Dominance > and Submission" on SECRET TREATIES, but it's the drummer, Albert Bouchard. > It's not that it sounds anything like Eric, but Eric took over singing it live > some time before I started seeing them, so I just assumed it was him on the > record. I still find this hard to believe, but maybe it's because I've also been brainwashed by the live shows. But I think you're right. I must go relisten... And please explain the Cagey Cretins thing to me again... who is singing what? It sure sounds to me like Albert on most of it, but Eric on the "It's so lonely..." scream. And how come Buck didn't get to sing anything on SE? It's the only BOC album with no Buck lead vocals. And it's also the album most loved by fans... hmmmmm. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:31:00 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Two singers for the price of one On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > I do understand that they swap instruments and all write and all sing, > but I've never been able to tell who's doing what. Or do just one or > two guys sing all of 'em? I remember thinking that there were three clear songwriter/vocalists: the clever one, the power-pop one and the tuneless rawk one. I could have been wrong, and the only songs I remember now are the 'clever' ones. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:12:58 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] useless stupid (0% Psychedelic Furs content) Quoting Roger Winston : > I still find this hard to believe, but maybe it's because I've also been > brainwashed by the live shows. But I think you're right. I must go > relisten... A/B the live "Poughkeepsie is *serious* about rock'n'roll!!" version with the studio. It all becomes clear. > And please explain the Cagey Cretins thing to me again... who is singing > what? It sure sounds to me like Albert on most of it, but Eric on the "It's > so lonely..." scream. OK, Rog, for the *last time*: (this part is Albert, then Eric, alternating by lines:) Ooooh cagey, what you got? What you got there dummy? What you got there man? Ooooh cagey, what you got? What you got there honey? What is it, a worm? (Albert:) Dumb clouds are raging, stupid clouds at my door Creepy weather coming, hanging 'round my floor Dumb clouds stay away, and don't come back no more (Al/Eric:) Ooooh cagey, what you got? Got an awful tummy, Oh no it's inflamed! Ooooh cagey, what you got? It's so lonely honey, in the state of Maine (Al:) Dumb clouds are raging, stupid clouds at my door Creepy weather coming, hanging 'round my floor Dumb clouds stay away, and don't come back no more (Eric:) I'm graduating in one more term Because I haven't any time to burn Repeating taste of hi-heeled shoe An eel is waiting under the train Being chased around by the neighbor's cat (Eric w/Al on high harmony:) Well it's so lonely in the state of Maine (Al:) Dumb bells are ringing, ringing in my ear Mother's wombs are crying, ringing in my fear Mother's never run, except when rape is near Of course, I'm doing this at the office, from memory, so caveat emptor. > And how come Buck didn't get to sing anything on SE? It's the only BOC album > with no Buck lead vocals. He usually sang tunes he wrote solo or co-wrote with an outside partner, and I don't think he had any of those on ST. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #427 *******************************