From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #417 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, December 3 2002 Volume 02 : Number 417 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] potted meat product [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] potted meat product ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] spam question [John Sharples ] [loud-fans] Interracial love songs ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs ["Michael Zwirn" ] Re: [loud-fans] spam question [LeftyZ@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] spam question ["John Swartzentruber" ] [loud-fans] plexi baffles [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs [John F Butland ] Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles ["Elizabeth Brion" ] [loud-fans] very cool thing (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles [jenny grover ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] potted meat product prolly around 70/day, but that's bounded by some things i can't do much about; i don't want to disable postmaster@ addresses for any of the domains i host, and the magazines and the record labels need to receive mail from all sorts of addresses. i used to (and still do) block domains from which spam originated, but these days much of it seems to come from yahoo/hotmail, and much of the rest seems to come from domain names that are used for a single mailing, then retired. if anybody cares to recommend solutions that are compatible with the freebsd/sendmail/procmail world, i'd be happy to learn about them. web- and pc-based tools don't suit my requirements. i was really interested in the similarities/weighting scale scheme discussed here a few months back. didn't somebody say something about a perl implementation of that? - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:53:21 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] potted meat product On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:31:30 -0500 (EST), dmw wrote: >i was really interested in the similarities/weighting scale scheme >discussed here a few months back. didn't somebody say something about a >perl implementation of that? Original article: http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html List of filters (that might include the one you want): http://www.paulgraham.com/filters.html For those that want something on the client end, POPFile (http://popfile.sourceforge.net/) looks pretty good. I haven't started using it yet, so I can't really vouch for it. It is open source. It is basically a POP3 proxy, so it won't work with IMAP, but will work with most email client programs. There is a build specifically for Windows, but it also has perl source for other platforms. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:08:52 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] potted meat product On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, at 08:31 AM, dmw wrote: > i used to (and still do) block domains from which spam originated, > but these days much of it seems to come from yahoo/hotmail, and much of > the rest seems to come from domain names that are used for a single > mailing, then retired. Same here... I use sendmail, so I block plenty of domains in my access.db. Do you know how to block, say, _all_ .biz domains (I have never seen a legitimate business using one of these, yet they probably account for 15% of all the spam coming into my domain)? > if anybody cares to recommend solutions that are > compatible with the freebsd/sendmail/procmail world, i'd be happy to > learn > about them. web- and pc-based tools don't suit my requirements. There's a pretty comprehensive listing here: http://email.about.com/cs/bayesianspamsw/ > i was really interested in the similarities/weighting scale scheme > discussed here a few months back. didn't somebody say something about > a > perl implementation of that? There's been a lot of activity on this front in the last few months. The link above has a lot of relevant pointers. Also, Slashdot is discussing the story Carolyn cited which started this whole thread: http://tinyurl.com/36md BTW, my girlfriend actually likes potted meat (on crackers), and I love to tease her about "liver lips, chicken hips, and whatever else landed on the abattoir floor." -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:28:51 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spam question Quoting Carolyn Dorsey : > I read this article below about spam and it says the average person > receives > more than 2200 spam hits a year. I get nothing like that. Maybe once or a > month I'll get a message. Do fellow listers get alot of spam? I get about 150 emails a day. About 100 are spam, and the rest are from the University of Wisconsin English Literature Department. > Regarding the sunglasses question-this is a dilemma. I would get them. Yeah. Who cares what your stupid brother-in-law thinks. I saw that suit he wore to your wedding. He looked liked 'Farmer Zeke Goes To Church.' JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any others? Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:02:04 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs At 09:52 AM 12/3/02 -0800, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: >A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs >about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any >others? Gary Myrick's "Tattooed on My Forehead" mentions interracial dating. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 3, verse 17 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:02:59 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs INXS - Original Sin (mentioned in passing): Fatlip - What's Up Fatlip? (I think): Long Fin Killie - Hollywood Gem -d.w. On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, at 12:52 PM, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs > about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". > Any > others? > > Joe Mallon > jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:07:15 -0800 From: "Michael Zwirn" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs > A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs > about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any > others? Paula Cole, "Chiaroscuro" regarding her now-husband, a Moroccan musician (quite prominent) whose name I can't remember. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:05:35 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs > A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs > about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any > others? 10,000 Maniacs, the last song on Blind Man's Zoo, I think it's called "Jubilee." - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:07:33 EST From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs In a message dated 12/3/02 12:53:31 PM, jmmallon@joescafe.com writes: << A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any others? >> I always think of that Everclear song, I think its Heroine Girl, with the chorus, "Me and my black girlfriend". steve+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:12:06 -0800 From: "Michael Zwirn" Subject: [loud-fans] re: Paula Cole (was: Interracial love songs) Her husband is Hassan Hakmoun. For some reason, I typed "Houkman" in google and couldn't get a hit, so I thought I'd forgotten his name. Hakmoun's own compositions have been recorded by the Kronos Quartet among others. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:21:59 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] strange bedfellows (low, ns) >For my birthday, I decided to treat myself to a CD, and as pickings were >slim at Holy Cow, and because I'd just read an interesting review of >Low's new one, I picked up "Trust." This isn't a review, but I have to >say that I'm fascinated by the fact (possibly un-noted by their fan base) >that they seem to be evolving in the direction of...Swans, of all people. Here's another fun game: hold the cover to Low's TRUST in your right hand, the cover to Loverboy's GET LUCKY in your left hand. Then look back. And forth. And back. And back and forth... Rohmer? Isn't he like watching paint dry? Hey, Gene Hackman said so, Andy "Only that which can destroy itself is truly alive." - --C.J. Jung, from PSYCHOLOGY AND ALCHEMY ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:20:02 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] re: Paula Cole (was: Interracial love songs) At 10:12 AM 12/3/02 -0800, Michael Zwirn wrote: >Her husband is Hassan Hakmoun. For some reason, I typed "Houkman" in google >and couldn't get a hit, so I thought I'd forgotten his name. > >Hakmoun's own compositions have been recorded by the Kronos Quartet among >others. He would have been my first guess... I thought of a couple others, both rather execrable: Iggy's "China Girl" and Hank Locklin's "Geisha Girl". Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 3, verse 17 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:20:49 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs >A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any >>songs >>about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any >>others? "Society's Child" by Janis Ian _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:21:48 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] strange bedfellows (low, ns) >Rohmer? Isn't he like watching paint dry? This, from a Jandek fan??? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:24:11 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] RE: Interracial dating There's also a song on Trevor McNamara's YEAH CAPTAIN called "Black Girl." Probably not what you're looking for, though. The lyrics are pretty sexual. Which makes me wonder why no one has yet mentioned the Stones in this thread. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:33:05 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Don't forget "I Believe" by Blessid Union of Souls. Oh yeah, and "China Girl." "Walk On The Kosher Side"? Hey don't arrest me, arrest Gene! (Okay, arrest Gene's screenwriter, Alan Sharp.) Andy Genres World Styles Middle East, Israel - --from www.allmusic.com's listing for Gefilte Joe And The Fish ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:33:50 -0500 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spam question What's wrong with me? Why don't I get any spam? Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:42:05 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spam question In a message dated 12/3/02 10:34:19 AM, dorseycc@earthlink.net writes: << What's wrong with me? Why don't I get any spam? >> If you feel that bad, I can start forwarding mine to you. ( : Left ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:43:10 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spam question On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:33:50 -0500, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: >What's wrong with me? Why don't I get any spam? Maybe Earthlink is blocking it? http://tinyurl.com/36ws ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs "Black Girls" by the Violent Femmes "The Saddest Story" or whatever it's called on I'M JUST THE OTHER WOMAN (Stewart can probably provide more accurate info) - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:50:06 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Jungle Fever - Stevie Wonder Black Honey - Graham Parker And, just to make Aaron and Grahame wince: Brown Sugar Some Girls JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:59:45 -0600 (CST) From: Tim_Pintsch Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Don't forget the title track to Everclear's _Heartspark Dollarsign_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:13:11 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs > the title track to Everclear's _Heartspark Dollarsign_ Pedantry activate: The Everclear album with "Heartspark Dollarsign" on it is called _Sparkle and Fade_. But yes, that (and not "Heroin Girl" (not "Heroine Girl"), from the same fine album) is the one about having a black girlfriend. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:13:50 -0600 From: "Kunkel, Mark" Subject: [loud-fans] Mission of Burma Question One of you must know this. When I saw Mission of Burma last week in Detroit, the drummer played behind something that looked like plexiglass. What's the deal with that? Does it cut down the noise for the benefit of guitarist? Incidentally, they rocked. It was a great show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:15:12 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] re: Paula Cole (was: Interracial love songs) > From: Matthew Weber > > I thought of a couple others, both rather execrable: Iggy's "China Girl" Execrable is a little strong for "China Girl," isn't it? It may be shallow, even stupid in its treatment of race, but at least it's got self-loathing - --always a good thing in a pop song. Now "Jingle Bell Rock," that's execrable. And whoever wrote that little ditty could use a little self-loathing. John, postin' and blowin' up bushels of fun ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:15:57 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs "Irma Jackson" by Merle Haggard is fairly great. I can't remember the name of the Amazing Rhythm Ace's interracial love song, but it would be pretty amazing to hear a band try to get away with covering it nowadays. And you guys don't know spam problems until you have to stare at an e-mail titled "Naked Sorority Girls" and ponder if it's business-related or not. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:15:19 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs In a message dated 12/3/02 1:31:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, zoom@muppetlabs.com writes: > Don't forget "I Believe" by Blessid Union of Souls. > > Oh yeah, and "China Girl." > > "Walk On The Kosher Side"? > > Hey don't arrest me, arrest Gene! > > (Okay, arrest Gene's screenwriter, Alan Sharp.) > > Andy > Obscure and somewhat negitive but Maggie & Terri Roche, Down The Dream Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:19:10 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mission of Burma Question At 01:13 PM 12/3/2002 -0600, Kunkel, Mark wrote: >One of you must know this. When I saw Mission of Burma last week in Detroit, the drummer played behind something that looked like plexiglass. What's the deal with that? Does it cut down the noise for the benefit of guitarist? Yes. Roger Miller has severe tinnitus and the plexiglass barrier shields him from getting pummelled too much by Peter Prescott's drums. All these little mini-tours and they can't play one fucking hometown gig now that I'm actually living here... S NP: New Wave Hits of the '70s and '80s (Sony 3-disc set compiled by, of all people, Doug Wygal!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:20:09 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mission of Burma Question Quoting Stewart Mason : > At 01:13 PM 12/3/2002 -0600, Kunkel, Mark wrote: > >One of you must know this. When I saw Mission of Burma last week in > Detroit, the drummer played behind something that looked like plexiglass. > What's the deal with that? Does it cut down the noise for the benefit of > guitarist? > > Yes. Roger Miller has severe tinnitus and the plexiglass barrier shields > him from getting pummelled too much by Peter Prescott's drums. They're called "baffles" and while it's true about Miller's hearing they are more commonly used to enhance separation in the sound mix. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:28:55 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mission of Burma Question <> Wygal's been working with Sony for several years now, with this latest package being a (pretty interesting) recycling of new-wave hits he began putting out for the label back in '94 or '95. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:34:07 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mission of Burma Question At 02:20 PM 12/3/2002 -0500, John Sharples wrote: >Quoting Stewart Mason : > >> At 01:13 PM 12/3/2002 -0600, Kunkel, Mark wrote: >> >One of you must know this. When I saw Mission of Burma last week in >> Detroit, the drummer played behind something that looked like plexiglass. >> What's the deal with that? Does it cut down the noise for the benefit of >> guitarist? >> >> Yes. Roger Miller has severe tinnitus and the plexiglass barrier shields >> him from getting pummelled too much by Peter Prescott's drums. > >They're called "baffles" and while it's true about Miller's hearing they are >more commonly used to enhance separation in the sound mix. That's true, and also an important point since a big part of Burma's thing is Bob Weston (taking over for the retired Martin Swope) doing on-the-fly live mixing and looping during the shows. But they're also a sound barrier for Roger. Multi-tasking at its finest. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:33:24 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:13:11 -0500 glenn mcdonald wrote: > > the title track to Everclear's _Heartspark > Dollarsign_ > > Pedantry activate: The Everclear album with > "Heartspark Dollarsign" on it is > called _Sparkle and Fade_. But yes, that (and > not "Heroin Girl" (not > "Heroine Girl"), from the same fine album) is > the one about having a black > girlfriend. Wasn't there a CD-5 (of generous EP length, IIRC) with "Heartspark Dollarsign" as the title track? Maybe Tim was thinking of that, as well as SPARKLE AND FADE. re: the drumkit plexiglas... Thanks to Sharples for answering that one -- Charlie Watts had them on the last two Stones tours, and I had wondered what they were for but kept forgetting to ask anyone. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:40:46 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs At 10:46 AM 12/3/2002 -0800, Tim Walters wrote: >"The Saddest Story" or whatever it's called on I'M JUST THE OTHER WOMAN >(Stewart can probably provide more accurate info) Indeed that's the title -- our fellow song-poem fan Charity points out, however, that you can't do "The Saddest Story" without also doing the much more approving "My Chocolate Baby" (from the same compilation) as well. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:52:33 -0500 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Not yet mentioned as far as I've read: "Betty Was Black and Willie Was White," found on both the eponymous Bis-quits album and Tommy Womack's STUBBORN. "Jemima James," from Phil Lee's outstanding second album, YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ME THEN. Not sure if "Brown Sugar" is about interracial love *or* interracial dating, since I've always taken it as being about having sex with a slave in a New Orleans bordello. Played with the sanitized "just like a YOUNG girl should" on the Nashville stop of the latest Stones tour, unless I misheard. later, Miles On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:52:26 -0800 (PST) "Joseph M. Mallon" wrote: > A request has gone out on the TNP list from its > subject for any songs > about interracial love/dating. Already > suggested: "Brother Louie". Any > others? > > Joe Mallon > jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Thanks to everyone who's sent in songs. Keep 'em coming if you've got 'em. I've already posted what's been sent to the TNP list. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Interracial dating music Perhaps the last word... http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/lester.html Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:34:38 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Quoting Miles Goosens : > Not sure if "Brown Sugar" is about interracial love *or* interracial > dating, since I've always taken it as being about having sex with a slave in a New > Orleans bordello. Yeah, whatever, Miles... I think John Lennon's (time to make Card007 squirm) "You Are Here" qualifies - as distinguished from his countless other odes to Yoko, this one contemplates the whole "from Liverpool/to Tokyo" aspect. Although she was from Scarsdale. Like I said, whatever. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:05:56 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Quoting "Joseph M. Mallon" : > A request has gone out on the TNP list from its subject for any songs > about interracial love/dating. Already suggested: "Brother Louie". Any > others? There's that awful, sucky song on that Jane's Addiction album (can't remember which one) that begins with Perry Farrell mewling, "ever since the riots, I've wanted a black girlfriend." (Thanks, Perry - you and a hundred plantation owners.) ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "am I being self-referential?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:13:16 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] strange bedfellows (low, ns) Quoting Andrew Hamlin : > Rohmer? Isn't he like watching paint dry? Reminds me of someone's (?) remark re Aaron Copland: like watching a cow chew its cud for 45 minutes. ..Jeff, watching a slow-motion replay of the paint-drying semi-finals J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: [clever or pithy quote] :: :: --[source of quote] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:14:23 -0500 From: Subject: [loud-fans] Re: reading material > > So, can anybody here recommend some good > conspiracy theory books? I've > > already read (and am friends with one of the > authors of) THE 60 GREATEST > > CONSPIRACIES OF ALL TIME. I thought that I should speak up in response to this in order to do my part in representing the distaff portion of this "geek" list, and also because this does not constitute shameless self-promotion. For those looking for a critique of conspiracy theories, might I recommend a book written by someone known to a few loud-fans? Mark Fenster, my longtime and now ex- significant other is the author of _Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture_ (University of Minnesota Press, 1999.) Here's the oh-so helpful description from Amazon.com: "JFK, Karl Marx, the Pope, Aristotle Onassis, Queen Elizabeth II, Howard Hughes, Fox Mulder, Bill Clinton-all have been linked to vastly complicated global (or even galactic) intrigues. In this enlightening tour of conspiracy theories, Mark Fenster guides readers through this shadowy world and analyzes its complex role in American culture and politics. "Fenster argues that conspiracy theories are a form of popular political interpretation and contends that understanding how they circulate through mass culture helps us better understand our society as a whole. To that end, he discusses Richard Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics, the militia movement, The X-Files, popular Christian apocalyptic thought, and such artifacts of suspicion as The Turner Diaries, the Illuminatus! trilogy, and the novels of Richard Condon. "Fenster analyzes the 'conspiracy community' of radio shows, magazine and book publishers, Internet resources, and role-playing games that promote these theories. In this world, the very denial of a conspiracy's existence becomes proof that it exists, and the truth is always "out there." He believes conspiracy theory has become a thrill for a bored subculture, one characterized by its members' reinterpretation of "accepted" history, their deep cynicism about contemporary politics, and their longing for a utopian future. "Fenster's progressive critique of conspiracy theories both recognizes the secrecy and inequities of power in contemporary politics and economics and works toward effective political engagement. Probing conspiracy theory's tendencies toward scapegoating, racism, and fascism, as well as Hofstadter's centrist acceptance of a postwar American 'consensus,' he advocates what conspiracy theory wants but cannot articulate: a more inclusive, engaging political culture. "Mark Fenster received his Ph.D. in communication from the University of Illinois and his law degree from Yale University." What I lack in posting frequency I try to make up in length! Holly Kruse holly-kruse@utulsa.edu hkruse@infi.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:26:19 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] plexi baffles in addition to isolation for the players, baffles are used live (as well as for recording) to stop things other than the instrument from getting into a mic. these days a lot of times i see sax and trumpet players with little mini versions, which serve two purposes: they prevent sound (esp. from the monitors, the dread feedback chain) from getting into the horn mics, but they also bounce some of the horn right back in the player's face so he/she has less need for horns in the monitors. neat -- whoever came up with that should have a gold star. the only act i've personally seen with baffles surrounding the drums was rasputina, the three-cello band, but mostly i frequent the sort of places where stage-volume provides at least some, if not most of the drum volume for the mix. i assume in rasputina's case that the baffles made the resonant bodies of the cellos more manageable by eliminating drum leakage, but it also reinforced the impression that the drummer wasn't really in the band. he wasn't wearing victorian undergarments, either. incidentally, it may be better for roger's ears, but it's hell on the drummer's. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:42:47 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles At 05:26 PM 12/3/2002 -0500, dmw wrote: >incidentally, it may be better for roger's ears, but it's hell on the >drummer's. I've met Peter Prescott a few times (he and Charity used to work in the same office, and he now manages a record store on Newbury Street that I frequent) and like just about every long-time drummer I have ever known, I believe he's a bit deaf. Not Ozzy-level or anything, but he does seem to point one ear in particular at whoever's speaking. I understand the whole machismo rawk'n'rollll thing and all, but whenever I see any musician (playing in a band louder than, say, the Amazing Blondel) on stage without even rudimentary hearing protection, I tend to slip directly into Cranky Old Man mode. I mean, geez, Pete Townshend taught you nothing? S NP: ABC MUSIC -- Stereolab (recommended for fans -- there's enough differences between these BBC sessions and the studio takes to make them interesting, and there's some nice versions of lesser-known songs like my personal all-time favorite Stereolab song, "Brigitte" -- but nothing that will make Miles change his mind) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:39:51 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles Quoting dmw : > the only act i've personally seen with baffles surrounding the drums was > rasputina, the three-cello band, but mostly i frequent the sort of places > where stage-volume provides at least some, if not most of the drum volume > for the mix. Yeah, large bands in large venues tend to use them. Recently, I saw Randy Travis' and Don Rickles' (yes! he tours with a big band) bands using plexi drum baffles, and I remember the Costello/Bacharach drummer a few years back had 'em too. They're used pervasively on THE TONIGHT SHOW (even the rock bands). I think they make for a crummy live drum sound. You can hear the quick slapback echo of the drums and cymbals come back through the kit mics, and it makes a godawful clatter. Like playing your kit through a digital delay, only not in a good way (see "Instant Karma!" or "Places That Are Gone"). JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:10:07 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles Quoting Stewart Mason : > I understand the whole machismo rawk'n'rollll thing and all, but whenever I > see any musician (playing in a band louder than, say, the Amazing Blondel) > on stage without even rudimentary hearing protection, I tend to slip > directly into Cranky Old Man mode. I mean, geez, Pete Townshend taught you > nothing? When I first started gigging (and attending blistering rock shows) I tried out a few types of earplugs, but could never find a set that worked for me. For one, I don't like the feeling of having something in my ears, and for another, I really like treble frequencies. In the 20-odd years since I've played well over 1,000 gigs, most of them extremely LOUD! , and my hearing has survived pretty well. Better than I have any right to expect: In general, I was born with unusually dynamic hearing--I can pick up extremely faint signals most people don't, like a phone off the hook on the other side of the house--and I always scored off the chart in hearing tests. I still have that, but my hearing is degraded in other ways--in conversation I have trouble distinguishing what people are saying if there is other ambient noise, more than I used to. Does anyone know if this is a type of hearing damage? Also, a few years ago, I started to develop occasional distortion in one ear if exposed to a certain type of sound--usually, a poorly processed, distorted electric guitar. Fortunately, I started taking better care of my ears at that point, and the damage seems to have gone away. I would definitely recommend people not follow my example, and wear good hearing protection any time they're exposed to high decibels. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 19:40:20 -0400 From: John F Butland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs At 02:52 PM 02-12-03 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: > >Not sure if "Brown Sugar" is about interracial love *or* interracial dating, >since I've always taken it as being about having sex with a slave in a New >Orleans bordello. Played with the sanitized "just like a YOUNG girl should" >on the Nashville stop of the latest Stones tour, unless I misheard. > Well, "young girl" was certainly the way that Bob Dylan was singing it throughout his fall tour. best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:38:54 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs Quoting John F Butland : > Well, "young girl" was certainly the way that Bob Dylan was singing it > throughout his fall tour. The lyrics (original version) alternate between "young girl" and "black girl" - the radio edit probably uses "young girl" every time, sort of like the radio edit of Van Morrison's "Brown Eyed Girl" which replaces "making love in the green grass" with "skipping and jumping" from an earlier verse. "Skipping and jumping...behind the stadium..." Oh well. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:45:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles John Sharples wrote: > I still have that, but my hearing is degraded in other > ways--in conversation I have trouble distinguishing what people are > saying if there is other ambient noise, more than I used to. Does > anyone know if this is a type of hearing damage? I don't know, but I have the same problem, and known-to-be-damaged hearing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:54:01 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interracial love songs On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, at 07:38 PM, John Sharples wrote: > The lyrics (original version) alternate between "young girl" and > "black girl" - > the radio edit probably uses "young girl" every time, sort of like the > radio > edit of Van Morrison's "Brown Eyed Girl" which replaces "making love > in the > green grass" with "skipping and jumping" from an earlier verse. > "Skipping and > jumping...behind the stadium..." Oh well. Just last night I was reminded of one of my least favorite pop bowdlerizations: the MTV edit of Snoop Dogg's "Gin n' Juice" changes Ridin' down the street smokin' endo to Ridin' down the street smokin' smokin' (with an audible edit hiccup) which totally wrecks the flow. (and yes, I'm completely serious) -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:55:03 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Brion" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles "Tim Walters" wrote: > John Sharples wrote: > > I still have that, but my hearing is degraded in other > > ways--in conversation I have trouble distinguishing what people are > > saying if there is other ambient noise, more than I used to. Does > > anyone know if this is a type of hearing damage? > > I don't know, but I have the same problem, and known-to-be-damaged hearing. Ditto. In my case, it's a midrange hearing loss, and I don't really understand how that accounts for all sounds seeming as loud as all other sounds, but it does (or is unrelated and undiagnosed, I guess). Can't hear people over music, TV, or other people, and if I'm at a movie or a concert and somebody says something at a normal volume five rows behind me, my head whips around because I'm hearing it as if it were the same volume, and I don't know, part of my brain thinks the show has moved to the back of the room or something. Those two symptoms seem kinda contradictory, I realize, but what can I say? Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: 03 Dec 2002 21:23:49 -0500 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles John Sharples writes: | I still have that, but my hearing is degraded in other ways--in | conversation I have trouble distinguishing what people are saying if | there is other ambient noise, more than I used to. Does anyone know | if this is a type of hearing damage? Yes, this is a classic symptom of hearing loss. I have it too. Unhappily, Dan - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:00:24 -0500 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] very cool thing (ns) I just noticed this, so I don't know if they've had it for years. WFMU now allows you to search their playlists for specific artists/songs. Many of their playlists are then indexed so you can go straight to each song in the archive. Given that WFMU dj's play a lot of stuff that never appears anywhere else, this is a great thing to have. For example, doing a search on the Dustdevils will bring you to: Playlist for Janitor From Mars with R. Lim - November 20, 2002 Where the (not so great) song "The Lost Divide" from their (not so great) debut album Rhenyard's Grin appears at 2:28:29, and you can click on a link to hear only that song. How cool!! Works for all sorts of bands that aren't the Dustdevils also. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 23:22:22 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] plexi baffles John Sharples wrote: > > I would definitely recommend people not follow my example, and wear good > hearing protection any time they're exposed to high decibels. My trouble is not only in finding earplugs that work without blocking out too much, but also ones that stay put. I have very small ear openings, and one rejects plugs more than the other. Some of the collapsible foam ones stay in, but others creep out, and all block too much. I tend to wear them for opening bands and take them out for the headliner (or whatever band I most came to see). I got a different kind recently (Rock and Roll Hear-os) that don't block out the sound as much, but also afford only minimal protection, and one of them won't stay in place. I still ended up taking them out for the headlining band. I want to protect my hearing, but I also want to hear what the band actually sounds like. The way most plugs I've tried sound, I might as well just stick my fingers in my ears. Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #417 *******************************