From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #412 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, November 29 2002 Volume 02 : Number 412 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto [Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto Quoting Elizabeth Brion : > Mine is "karaoke," and I'm not even sure that I'm right. Back in the > day, my best friend's full-time gig was providing the vocals on the > channel you can turn off. He worked for a couple guys straight from > Japan, and they pronounced the word "kar-oak-ee." I had a similar experience at a sushi bar on Sunset Boulevard. I always hated eating sushi with chopsticks: I prefer to eat sushi and maki in two bites, but it's almost impossible to get a sturdy enough grip with chopsticks to get this operation to come off right, so I would end up either stuffing the whole damn thing in my mouth (gluttonous and wasteful!) or trying to bite off a piece and having the whole thing pathetically fall apart on me. So the chefs at Sushi on Sunset were cracking up at me and told me only gringos eat sushi and maki with chopsticks in a wrongheaded attempt to appear authentic. Japanese eat sushi and maki with their hands, shashimi with chopsticks. Try it and you'll see that it makes perfect sense. I've been doing it ever since, and it did make my life okay. I tell this story to my sushi dining companions every time I see them struggling vainly with chopsticks, in the hopes of liberating my round-eyed brothers, but usually they just look at me and keep using their chopsticks. Poor bastards. Dana, it's pronounced "fort." "Fort-ay" means loud music! JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:54:43 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Quoting John Sharples : > Quoting Matthew Weber : > Should it prescribe usage, or > > describe it? Language is made by the people who use it, not by the > > Academie Anglaise! > > Yeah, but that's a little like saying that the highway speed limit should be > determined by the average speed of drivers on that highway. In effect, though, that *is* what happens. And most cops in most areas don't enforce except against those drivers whose excessive (compared to the average) speed makes them dangers. If you want a live demonstration of this, just try driving the posted limit on any interstate highway (except in traffic jams, of course). I think drivers who do so ought to be ticketed: their slow speed makes everyone else have to go around them, whereas faster drivers at least are the ones negotiating their own, solo way around everyone else. But to get back to the point: Matt's correct. Dictionaries are not primarily prscriptive but descriptive. Meaning and usage change over time, and while some new or "wrong" usages raise my hackles too (even though I'm not at all sure what hackles are), in fifty years no one might bat an eye (and *that* seems very uncomfortable, particularly if Barry Bonds is wielding the bat). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: "Shut up, you truculent lout, and let the cute little pixie sing!" :: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:17:35 -0500 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto Poor bastards. Dana, it's pronounced "fort." "Fort-ay" means loud music! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, happy Thanksgiving. Yes, I agree that it's pronounced "fort," but the only reason to pronounce it correctly is if your intention is to 1) confuse the person you're talking to or 2) snidely correct them when they try to tell you that it's pronounced "Fort-ay." And since I try to save my snide comments for this list, I just don't use the word at all anymore. And you are so right about the Sushi thing. Question though (and let's forget for a moment that it's your food, and you can eat it anyway you want to): isn't there some rule that you're supposed to dip the fish side into the soy sauce, as opposed to the rice side? Or did I dream that? Strangely, I was having a dream this morning that I was very rich, and had hired a Japanese Tea Master to make my tea every morning. He would start at about 4:00am, and when I woke up at six, the tea would be ready. It felt very decadent. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:47:26 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac > From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:54:43 -0600 > > But to get back to the point: Matt's correct. Dictionaries are not primarily > prscriptive but descriptive. Meaning and usage change over time, and while > some new or "wrong" usages raise my hackles too (even though I'm not at all > sure what hackles are), in fifty years no one might bat an eye (and *that* > seems very uncomfortable, particularly if Barry Bonds is wielding the bat). Dictionaries list the rules of the game. While the rules aren't set in stone and can change whenever the players agree, there are rules. And the player who knows the rules has an advantage. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:57:25 -0500 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] thanksgiving gift (ns) I'd almost forgotten the good old days when $5 and $10 and even better coupons were always available for the on-line music sites. Either I haven't been paying attention, or that sort of thing has really dried up. Anyway, here's one for good old half.com that arrived in my mailbox today: Half.com Get $15 off $50 purchase! http://listad.com/c/7a7186f6ca4f0100f316828555468fe9/21046 I haven't tried it yet, so no guarantees. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:11:30 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto At Thursday 11/28/2002 12:17 PM -0500, Dana Paoli wrote: >And you are so right about the Sushi thing. Question though (and let's >forget for a moment that it's your food, and you can eat it anyway you >want to): isn't there some rule that you're supposed to dip the fish >side into the soy sauce, as opposed to the rice side? Or did I dream >that? Yes, you're supposed to dip the fish side: http://gojapan.about.com/c/ht/00/07/How_Eat_Sushi0962933286.htm Also: http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-review-62E3-9FC5288-39447149-prod2 John, thanks for pointing this out. I've always wanted to try to eat sushi that way, but was afraid I'd look like a dork. Chopsticks just don't work. You know, I've been to Japan and have eaten sushi with Japanese people. It was a long time ago though (1986-ish), and I don't remember how they did it. I was new to sushi at the time and was just trying to get through the meal. And, oh yeah, I always mix the wasabi and the soy sauce together. I guess you shouldn't do that... Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:57:17 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto At 11:11 AM 11/28/2002 -0700, Roger Winston wrote: >And, oh yeah, I always mix the wasabi and the soy sauce together. I guess >you shouldn't do that... I've tried it both ways, and frankly, it's just easier with the two mixed. Too much soy sauce and not enough wasabi for the proper balance, otherwise. Personally, I eat nigiri with chopsticks and maki with my fingers, but that may just be me. S NP: EVANGELINE -- Emmylou Harris, alongside the Patriots/Lions game ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:17:28 -0800 From: Tim Walters Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac >Dictionaries list the rules of the game. While the rules aren't set in stone >and can change whenever the players agree, there are rules. And the player >who knows the rules has an advantage. What game is that? Spot The Shibboleth? Olympic Social Climbing? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Walters : The Doubtful Palace : http://www.doubtfulpalace.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:00:37 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto In a message dated 11/28/02 8:38:17 AM, jsharple@brooklaw.edu writes: << So the chefs at Sushi on Sunset were cracking up at me and told me only gringos eat sushi and maki with chopsticks in a wrongheaded attempt to appear authentic. >> The same reason that gringos inSIST on eating CHINESE food with chopsticks, eh? Since the fork HAS now been invented, and since it IS the 21st Century, I use a fork. Left ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:26:36 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > (even though I'm not at all sure what hackles are), They are hairs or feathers on an animal that can be raised to make the animal appear bigger, usually in a fight situation, like that hairs on a cat's back that stand up when it's angry or spooked. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:10:41 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You say tinnAYto and I say tinnAHto At 03:00 PM 11/28/2002 EST, LeftyZ@aol.com wrote: >The same reason that gringos inSIST on eating CHINESE food with chopsticks, >eh? > >Since the fork HAS now been invented, and since it IS the 21st Century, I use >a fork. > And you get a bowlful of noodles in your lap every time. There are some things that are simply a hell of a lot easier to eat with chopsticks than with a fork, no matter what century it is. S NP: ONE NIGHT -- Arlo Guthrie ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #412 *******************************