From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #408 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, November 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 408 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] first impressions ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" ] [loud-fans] Tilbrook live on the airwaves (and Internet) [Miles Goosens <] Re: [loud-fans] FAR FROM HEAVEN ["Andrew Hamlin" ] [loud-fans] chat-like behavior [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] top o the pops [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] top o the pops [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] chat-like behavior ["jer fairall" ] Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists [dennis sacks ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:47:55 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] first impressions The returning Stef, the amazing Belgian, says: > Roger Winston wrote: > > What if Stalin were alive today and he liked Power Pop? > > He'd be on Audities... Now that's what I call a post :-) Welcome back, Stef - we've missed you (well I have anyway...) Cheerio Ian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:08:40 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day Quisp is more available than many consumers know. There's a line of General Mills cereals sold in plastic bags, usually lined up along the bottom row of the cereal aisle. Most of these are just cheaper alternatives to name brands, much like you'd find from a chain grocery's in-store imprint. However, the General Mills knockoffs also keep King Vitamin alive (although it only seems available six months out of the year), and maintains Quisp under a different name. I think it's called "Shark Sweeties," or something similar. Look for the logo of the surfing shark. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:29:44 -0500 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day At 09:08 AM 11/24/2002 EST, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >... the >General Mills knockoffs also keep King Vitamin alive (although it only seems >available six months out of the year), and maintains Quisp under a different >name. I think it's called "Shark Sweeties," or something similar. Look for >the logo of the surfing shark. Good tip, thanks. Not for me, though; while I generally despise brand loyalty and groove on generics & knockoffs, I can't do like that with cereal. It's *so* much about the packaging. Studying the genuine Quisp box over breakfast is integral to the Quisp experience. Sharks and cello bags (economical, but harder to read while eating - you have to prop 'em up against the orange juice bottle, which only works if both the bottle and the cereal bag are full) are lovely perhaps, but you can't call the stuff in that bag Quisp. janet stunned that the line *isn't* "You can watch Rafferty turn into a cereal" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:16:08 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: [loud-fans] Matt Keating West Coast dates The Loud Family's former Alias stablemate Matt Keating is touring the West Coast. MATT KEATING TOURDATES 12/1 - Los Angeles -- Hotel Cafe 12/3 - San Francisco -- Bottom of the Hill w/Owen 12/6 -- Berkeley -- The Starry Plow w/ Deek Dickerson 12/7 -- Portland, OR -- Dante's w/ HEM 12/9 -- Eugene, OR -- The Tortoise w/ Jeff London 12/10 -- Seattle, WA -- The Sunset Tavern w/ Marc Olsen - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:29:56 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: [loud-fans] FAR FROM HEAVEN I might not have seen this film if I hadn't been practically dragged to it by my date last night...although I liked SAFE pretty well, I had absolutely no idea what Todd Haynes was trying to do with VELVET GOLDMINE. I mean, Haynes himself was at the screening I went to and explained it all afterwards, and I still couldn't tell you what the hell was going on in that movie. FAR FROM HEAVEN totally blew me away. From the reviews I was bracing myself for an ironic campfest, but this is the strongest film I've seen this year. A lot is being made of all its technical achievements, but while they are impressive, I just thought it was a smart, beautiful, tragic, gut-wrenching melodrama with tons of heart. I've never seen Moore or Quaid give better performances (and I'll also say that I'm not one of those Moore-worshippers but against all odds she is ravishing here, even in the 50s housewife get-up). I could have easily let this one slip away, and I'm damn glad somebody smarter than me wouldn't let me. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:36:35 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] Tilbrook live on the airwaves (and Internet) I'm leaving in about 90 minutes to get my in-person seat for this one, but Glen Tilbrook's show tonight in Nashville will be broadcast on WRLT as part of their "Nashville Sunday Nights" series. http://www.wrlt.com, opener at 8, Glen at 9. I *think* I've got the VCR rigged up to get the show while I'm out (dang, I need a mini-disc player!)... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:39:04 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FAR FROM HEAVEN >I might not have seen this film if I hadn't been practically dragged to it by >my date last night...although I liked SAFE pretty well, I had absolutely no >idea what Todd Haynes was trying to do with VELVET GOLDMINE. I mean, Haynes >himself was at the screening I went to and explained it all afterwards, and I >still couldn't tell you what the hell was going on in that movie. My kingdom for Mr. Haynes at the screening, but VELVET GOLDMINE was one of those films I felt backed into a corner on: I couldn't understand why so many people disliked it or actually refused to go on general principle. Okay, the film's plot vanishes--I'd never seen that trick before--and yes, that CITIZEN KANE stuff left me only a little less exasperated than that WIZARD OF OZ shit in WILD AT HEART (though I don't care for WILD AT HEART). As a fantasia-in-(mostly)-music-videos, though, I thought it jumped with entirely-appropriate abandon into its central idea (style and outrageousness as a queer virus from outer space), and gave its music lavish but tenderhearted affection. Christian Bale's headphone-sealed interior voyage in his bedroom ought to resonate with any music lover, whether or not you felt in love with the body in the centerfold. I'm reminded of Thora Birch in her bedroom spinning "Devil Got My Woman," but of course hers is the shock of revelation, more a moment of conversion. Bale is in the midst of ceremonial recapitulation. Slate's David Edelstein did have the idea, which hadn't occurred to me before, that by the GOLDMINE's end "the bisexual liberation of the early '70s gave way to a vaguely fascist, Orwellian order in which nonconformist behavior was back under wraps." While I'm not sure I agree, this would tend to explain the implications of Brian Slade's "resurrection" (the Pied Piper Ziggy Stardust dies; the blue-suited "David Bowie" rises from the grave, now denying everything Ziggy affirmed) as Christian Bale looks up from his desktop having finally figured out who's who, as Brian Eno chants "Oh cheeky cheeky/Oh naughty sneaky/You're so perceptive/And I wonder how you knew..." And everybody spotted the director's self-homage, right? >FAR FROM HEAVEN totally blew me away. From the reviews I was bracing myself >for an ironic campfest, but this is the strongest film I've seen this year. I felt amazed, maybe more by this than anything else in the film, that with a huge layer-cake of camp opportunity, Haynes refrains from so much as fingering the fork. I'm at a substantial disadvantage, I confess, for not knowing the work of Douglas Sirk, who's obviously the inspiration here. Edelstein writes: "...Haynes hasn't just reproduced the conventions of a Sirk movie: He has gone so deep into his own attraction to Sirk that he has fetishized those conventions"--but then continues, "...Haynes...has infused this re-creation with his own erotic fixation on the textures of '50s middlebrow culture. The result is an imitation that surpasses the original on just about every level." This may be overly indiosyncratic, but I've always associated "fetishize" with a flattening, a simplification. Shut up and make it shiny. FAR FROM HEAVEN is certainly shiny, but neither flat nor simple. As it happened, I got the next-to-most-recent "Moviemaker" magazine in the mail yesterday, and that gadfly Ray Carney has some comments about Haynes' next-to-last film, SAFE (also with Julianne Moore, and a film I encourage all to see) which I think make sense of FAR FROM HEAVEN as well: "If you want an example of how a movie can be political without blaming the system or victimizing its characters, look at Todd Haynes' SAFE. It never preaches. It never attitudinizes about social problems. But it reveals that the way the world is organized and understood affects the smallest individual act. It makes us think deeply about the connections between society and and personal life--about where we live and how, about our felt need for order and clarity and safety, about our fears of what we can't control. Haynes' movie shows that the personal is political, and that's what makes it the most subversive and radical American film of the past 10 years." So far as a Top Ten 2002 goes, in a year where I've paid more attention to film than music, I'll say THE RULES OF ATTRACTION, LOVELY & AMAZING, THE DANGEROUS LIVES OF ALTAR BOYS, ABOUT A BOY, THE GREY ZONE, ALL OR NOTHING, LIBERTY STANDS STILL, WORLD TRAVELER, WHAT TIME IS IS THERE?...and FAR FROM HEAVEN. Pending further investigation and reflection of course. After all, I still haven't seen HARVARD MAN (America's hottest TV star can't get a nationwide release?), Andy Q: What is it about Portland [Oregon]? A: I lived in New York City, and I was like [adopts comical serious-artist voice], "I'm never gonna live anywhere other than New York City. Why would anybody ever? Is there even another place than New York City?" And God, is there ever, man. It's changed a lot since I moved there in 1985. It's a really professional town now. It's a town where you have to spend all your time working just to live there. And when so many people come with the sort of creative fantasy--based on its remarkable history, obviously--I just don't see where that gets fulfilled today. And for me, I liked it more when I had no notoriety, when I was just struggling to find my way and try shit and also discover shit, which I also feel like it's harder to do now. I lived in Williamsburg the whole time, where I'm probably better known as a filmmaker than maybe anywhere on the planet, and I just realized that isn't what I want--to be identified that way exclusively. And to find a city where people don't ask you what you do [when they first meet you] is so different. I've met so many great people who live out here [in the Northwest] who are creative and smart, and the very reason why they don't want to live in a big city is so interesting, and already says so much about how they want to preserve, I think, a certain kind of creative instinct. Q: It's amazing that all these bands are coming out of New York, since nobody there can even afford a practice space. A: It's so much about time and space. I've realized how expensive time and space are in New York, and how guarded one becomes over their time and space. And that engenders a sort of stinginess toward the world that's just not how I want to think of myself... [--Todd Haynes, from an interview by Sean Nelson at http://www.thestranger.com/2002-11-14/film.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:57:45 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] chat-like behavior irc.eskimo.com #loudfans I know it might be a little early, but what the hey.... Phil F. NP... nothing yet... need to find music. Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:23:47 -0500 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] top o the pops So I think I like the Byron Coley list more than the pitchfork one. God, I hadn't thought about Lisa Suckdog in a long time. You know, for a totally unlistenable album that seems to consist entirely of a couple of girls on acid babbling, "Drugs Are Nice" has certainly made itself a little home in my subconscious. I still find myself chanting "Oh Mighty Pigeon" to my pigeons (only when no one else is around). I remember seeing a copy of the CD at HMV on 80-something street, years ago, and thinking that there really is no underground anymore. Still can't figure out why anyone would like Daydream Nation though. Lord, I think I'd even go with Goo before that. - --dana On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:35:59 -0500 "Vallor" writes: > Someone mentioned Translator. I think it was Translators first album > that > told me the nasty things that major labels can do. I first saw them > opening > for the Zeros at Barrington Hall, they had this unbelievable duo of > songs > that ran into one another...true musical brilliance. "Brand New > Eyes"/"Everywhere". They always played it, every show. They signed > and the > caustic introduction song (Brand New Eyes) to Everywhere was never > heard > again. Sad. > > Here's Byron Coley's best of the 80's from a 1990 issue of Spin. A > pretty > smart list in places. Coley dedicated the very funny Motley Crue bio > he > wrote under the name Billy Dwight to Game Theory's Real Nighttime. > > A-Bones - Free Beer For Life > Beat Happening - s/t > Black Flag - Damaged > Black Sun Ensemble - s/t (Reckless) > Borbetomagus - Seven Reasons for Tears (I forgot to check back for > Day 2 of > the Pitchfork list - which Borbetomagus did they end up picking?) > Butthole Surfers - Cream Corn > Eugene Chadbourne - Eddie Chatterbox > Chain Gang - Mondo Manhattan > Copernicus - Deeper > Couch Flambeau - The Day The Music Died > Crystallized Movements - Mind Disaster > Death of Samantha - Laughing in the Face... > Demo Moe - Demolish > Die Kreuzen - s/t > Divine Horsemen - Snake Handler > DOS - s/t > Dream Syndicate - Days of Wine... > Dredd Foole and the Din - Eat My Dust > Drunks With Guns - s/t > Eleventh Dream Day - Prairie School Freakout > Embarrassment - s/t > Roky Erickson and the Aliens - The Evil One > John Fahey - I Remember Blind Joe Death > Fish and Roses - s/t > Flesheaters - A Minute to Pray > Frogs - It's Only Right and Natural > Galaxie 500 - Today > Game Theory- Real Nighttime > Giant Sand - Storm > Gibson Brothers - Big Pine Boogie > Great Plains - Naked At... > Green On Red - s/t EP > Meat Puppets - II > Minor Threat - Out of Step > Minutemen - What Makes a Man... > Misfits - Walk Among Us > Mofungo - End of The World, Part II > MX-80 Sound - Out of the Tunnel > Neats - Monkey's Head... > 100 Flowers - s/t > Opal - Happy Nightmare Baby > Panther Burns - Behind the Magnolia Curtain > Al Perry and the Cattle - Cattle Crossing > Plasticland - Wonder Wonderful Wonderland > Plugz - Better Luck > Psycho Daisies - Sonically Speaking > Pussy Galore - Dial M > Saccharine Trust - Worldbroken > Salvation Army - s/t > Savage Republic - Tragic Figures > Sister Ray - Random Violence > Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation > Peter Stampfel and Steve Weber - Going Nowhere Fast > Suckdog - Drugs Are Nice > Swans - Filth > Russ Tolman - Totem Poles... > Turbines - Last Dance Before Highway > Volcano Suns - Farced > Walkabouts - Cataract > Wipers - Youth of America > World of Pooh - Land of Thirst > X - Los Angeles > Yo La Tengo - President > > - Dan Vallor > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > King Record Lathe Universe Web > http://home.attbi.com/~cassetto/ > > Xpressway List Group > http://www.egroups.com/group/Xpressway > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:10:15 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] top o the pops On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 08:23 PM, Dana Paoli wrote: > Still can't figure out why anyone would like Daydream Nation though. > Lord, I think I'd even go with Goo before that. I'll risk saying something here, though "Is Daydream Nation great or is it crap" is the closest thing to a religion argument you're likely get when indie kids gather... It's got at least 3 or 4 of the best songs Sonic Youth ever did ("Teen Age Riot", "Silver Rocket", "The Sprawl", "Candle"), and they're the only people to ever base any music on William Gibson without sounding like complete fucktards. That's gotta count for something. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:04:35 -0500 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] chat-like behavior Dave, glenn, Phil, Tim and myself are still chatting here if anyone feels like coming by. irc.eskimo.com #loudfans Jer np: Idlewild, THE REMOTE PART Race to Save the Primates - every click provides food! http://www.care2.com/go/z/primates ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:55:18 -0700 From: dennis sacks Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:23:16 EST OptionsR@aol.com wrote: > Did I miss something while I was lurking? Has Mark Staples left the list > again? > > He seems like an alright-enough guy, but the analogy I'd use is this: just > because it's hot in a room doesn't necessary mean you have to walk around in > a Speedo. I don't understand the reaction some people have to Mark and others. What is it about someone who is naive, gushy and immature that brings out reactions of such venom, anger and disgust? Are we so jaded that naivete offends us? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:30:34 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists At 09:55 PM 11/24/2002 -0700, dennis sacks wrote: >I don't understand the reaction some people have to Mark and others. > >What is it about someone who is naive, gushy and immature that brings out >reactions of such venom, anger and disgust? > >Are we so jaded that naivete offends us? I really, really don't want to write a response so long that it'll bring the smoe.org server to its knees as it struggles to transmit the 5.2 MB explication (and since the smoe.org list software won't transmit attachments, that's not even counting the Powerpoint charts), especially since I have only a few minutes tonight to get ready for another working week and to pick out two outfits for tomorrow (one for work, and one to change into after work since I'm seeing the Stones and not coming back home until afterwards) and to get a few packages ready for mailing. Instead, I'll say that all the great things you might have heard about Glenn Tilbrook's solo shows are true, and I hope some of you got to hear the first hour of it on WRLT tonight (I haven't checked to see if my tape turned out -- that lack of time thing again). Fun, engaging, eclectic, passionate, goofy, superb. Highlights for me were hearing "No Place Like Home" and (during the non-broadcast hour) "Vanity Fair." If you liked Squeeze, you'd be foolish to pass up a treat like this. Special to Jeff Downing: Remember the really, really, really burly bearded middle-aged guys who were at the Lloyd Cole show last year? The bunch whom Lloyd dubbed the "Bear Magazine Table?" They were at this show too. They were, as they were then, obsequious and, ahem, "gushy" (sample shout-out: "Glenn Tilbrook, you're amazing!") but, thank God for small favors, there was no interpretive dancing this time. tittle feat?, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:51:54 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] top o the pops Quoting Dana Paoli : > So I think I like the Byron Coley list more than the pitchfork one. God, > I hadn't thought about Lisa Suckdog in a long time. You know, for a > totally unlistenable album that seems to consist entirely of a couple of > girls on acid babbling, "Drugs Are Nice" has certainly made itself a > little home in my subconscious. I still find myself chanting "Oh Mighty > Pigeon" to my pigeons (only when no one else is around). At one point I had *two* Suckdog CDs (didn't pay for either of 'em). I vaguely remember something about "cats in the stars," but otherwise figured out that the CDs were eminently tossable. Kept the packaging, however... Coley's list does have some cool titles, though - along with a bunch of stuff I never really felt like checking out, and some stuff that makes me go, "yeah, whatever - poseur-bait..." Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #408 *******************************