From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #407 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Sunday, November 24 2002 Volume 02 : Number 407 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Elbow? [OptionsR@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] list-makers painted blue in 2002 [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists ["Chris Murtland" ] Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists [John Sharples ] Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day [OptionsR@aol.co] Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day [Miles Goosens <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:49:17 EST From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Elbow? Just checked out www.rathergood.com , and I'd really like to know if anyone can tell me which CD has Elbow's uncharacteristically goofy cover of Destiny's Child's "Independent Woman". And if you like kittens and have never been to www.rathergood.com , you're in for something very special indeed. Question, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:01:03 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 02:57 PM, John Swartzentruber wrote: > > Ditto. Although I don't know if for a fact, I would be very surprised > if an WMA -> MP3 conversion did not lower the quality. Going from one lossy format to another, you'll always take a hit. > My hunch is that > it would in effect convert back to WAV and then recompress. If you have > the time, I would rip them again using EAC (and LAME). I second the endoresement for Lame. It's a wonderful encoder, and with the newer versions the presets offer a great set of default options, depending on your preferences as far as file size and encoding time. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:09:25 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] list-makers painted blue in 2002 On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 06:18 PM, Brian Block wrote: > Blue Up, SPOOL FORKA DISH, 1995 (semi-trippy pop music, a long-lost > halfway point between Belly and the Darling Buds, only more > schizophrenic than either of those; even though the best songs are the > experimentally drony exceptions, the whole album just makes me happy) In case anyone who has heard this didn't already know, the Blue Up's frontwoman was loopy camgirl Ana Voog (anacam), who has achieved a degree of net fame/infamy in the intervening years. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:25:29 -0800 From: elizabeth brion Subject: Re: Fundamental issues (was RE: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!!) Dana Paoli wrote: >>Kinda like, if I'm going to a show and drag queens take over, >> I probably won't try to 'out-dress' the performers. I'll sit >>in the back and enjoy the show until it gets too weird. >> >> > >I don't even have issues with drag >queens. > > >Gee, *I'd* have issues if they kept taking over the shows I went to see. >It sounds so rude of them. Especially when they get weird and you can't >enjoy the show anymore. > >C'mon, I'm curious. What the hell were you referring to. A car show? A >balloon show? A tupperware show? The muppet show? Did a gang of >drag-queens take over the Miss Cornhenge pageant last year? > Perhaps I can help. I was at a show at Largo a few years back - not sure who it was, as for some reason this detail is all that stayed with me - and three drunken drag queens stumbled in the door, found their way to the stage door (this is really, really easy to do at Largo), burst onto the stage and started voguing. They were eventually sent on their merry way, but for a short while it was a genuine drag queen coup. I'm sure this is the event to which she was referring. :-) E ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:06:03 -0500 From: boyof100lists@juno.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:23:16 EST OptionsR@aol.com writes: > Did I miss something while I was lurking? Has Mark Staples left the > list > again? No. Mark Staples is here. Guys, good God. I'm beginning to feel like Ort, the "Athens, GA Inside Out" personality, who said that he felt like each day he was being "inked into his own panels" like a comic book character, or something like that. If you think I'm enjoying all this bizarro attention, I am not. Just let me quasi-lurk in peace, please. Why am I so controversial? Because I'm honest? Because I say what's on my mind or heart? When I think I'm right, I think I'm right. When I've thought I was wrong on here, I've said so, and apologized openly to whomever or about whatever (many times to the man who likes flamingos). I was wrong for being such an ass and saying that the list was depressing in my somewhat cynical post to Lisa. Bad meds day. Can you relate? Oh btw, just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I'm happy all the time. Don't buy the lie. "Praise Jesus, life's a bowl of cherries." Remember, the smile on Tammy Fae's face was painted on. I rarely make any reference to my sexuality here (the testicular reference was inappropriate, and I apologized already). If JRT had said that, would anyone have cared? I may have gay feelings, but I also have straight ones as well. Do I ever talk about my sexuality? What, maybe twice in two years? There are some things that I do not talk about, even though I am pretty open, because that's a private thing to me. When I joined the list, I had a girlfriend. Before that, I had a boyfriend. I've never had any interest in drag or drag queens. I don't go to gay bars. I've only made references to drag because I'm playing on perceived perceptions of myself, but maybe it gets lost in the medium of the written word. I don't own a Streisand album. Nor one by Judy Garland. Or Cher. Would you believe I would like to find the right woman and get married and be monogamous? Currently, I'm in love with a woman I went to college with who is across the country in Oregon working on her doctorate, and we're going out when she comes home on her Christmas break (and, because I'm honest, she knows all about me, because I think it is only right and fair to her to be so). I want to marry her, and she knows it. To me, sexuality has always been something you could change, like a shirt or a hair style. I LOATHE the cliche ridden "Will and Grace" program. I wear a buzz cut and a beard. That way, I don't have to bother with my hair or shaving. I don't care for styling my hair or dressing in expensive stylish clothes. I have absolutely no pink anywhere in my clothes collection. When not working, I generally am in grey sweats and Birkenstocks, because I like comfort and minimalism. I drive a small "girly" car only for the fact that I like good gas mileage, and I've been delivering food for over a decade, and the way to go is a small dependable Japanese car with a low cost-per-mile to make the most money. I don't swish and sway and say "girlfriend, please" or "Miss thang, you need to stop." I'm not a cliche. I'm not a comic book caricature. I give TMI. It's how I'm wired. It just sort of happens. However, I find the pattern is that, I'm in defense mode a lot, and I try to explain myself so that I can make things clear, and my trying to justify how and why I am just makes things worse. Did I do it again this time? - -Mark Staples np: Bob Bennett "Small Graces" ***I am open to this proposal. If my being here bothers you, tell Dennis. All Loudfans who wish to vote, vote. In a week's time, the votes could be tabulated. If I'm voted to leave, I promise to leave. If the votes are more for me to stay, I'll remain. Fair enough, everyone? ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:01:07 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] list-makers painted blue in 2002 At Saturday 11/23/2002 01:33 AM -0500, jer fairall wrote: >Mystery Machine, HEADFIRST INTO EVERYTHING (1998) > Had Sloan not decided, around the time of ONE CHORD TO ANOTHER or > NAVY BLUES, >to become retro-kitsch rock stars, this is what they might have ended up >sounding like. Plus >it would have spared me PRETTY TOGETHER. I bought this CD when it first came out, and I can't remember a thing about it. Guess I better go give it a listen... Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:15:57 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Hurts Subject: [loud-fans] HI!!! Hello trout-fans! I just rejoined the list and I'm real and only a figment of my own imagination. Toodlepip, - -Stef Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:36:38 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 11:06 AM, boyof100lists@juno.com wrote: > I am open to this proposal. If my being here bothers you, tell > Dennis. All Loudfans who wish to vote, vote. In a week's time, the > votes could be tabulated. If I'm voted to leave, I promise to leave. > If > the votes are more for me to stay, I'll remain. Fair enough, everyone? This is one of the silliest things I've read in a while. If you want to stay on the list, stay on the list. If you want to go, go. If Dennis wants you off the list, he has the listadmin password. Anyone else using a useful mailer can filter (they can kill messages, heck even flag them high priority must-reads -- freedom via software is a good thing.) Anything else is just drama. -d.w. TMJ: http://www.tmj.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:10:24 -0800 From: "Micah Bedwell" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists I agree with David. This is juvenile (-my word). Regards, Micah Bedwell "I have arrived, I am home." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Walker" To: Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists > On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 11:06 AM, boyof100lists@juno.com > wrote: > > > I am open to this proposal. If my being here bothers you, tell > > Dennis. All Loudfans who wish to vote, vote. In a week's time, the > > votes could be tabulated. If I'm voted to leave, I promise to leave. > > If > > the votes are more for me to stay, I'll remain. Fair enough, everyone? > > This is one of the silliest things I've read in a while. > If you want to stay on the list, stay on the list. If you > want to go, go. If Dennis wants you off the list, > he has the listadmin password. Anyone else using > a useful mailer can filter (they can kill messages, > heck even flag them high priority must-reads -- > freedom via software is a good thing.) Anything else > is just drama. > > -d.w. > > TMJ: http://www.tmj.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: michael@zwirn.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] list-makers painted blue in 2002 On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:40:16 -0800 (PST), Dave Walker wrote: > In case anyone who has heard this didn't already know, the Blue Up's > frontwoman was > loopy camgirl Ana Voog (anacam), who has achieved a degree of net > fame/infamy > in the intervening years. Hah, no kidding. I saw the Blue Up? a number of times in Minneapolis, usually opening for other bands I wanted to see, in the early-mid 1990s. I had no idea that Ana Voog was from the band. Michael, back in Boston for the time being. Michael J. Zwirn, Environmental Policy Analyst http://www.zwirn.com michael@zwirn.com Home: 503/232-8919 Cell: 503/887-9800 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:52:48 -0800 (PST) From: Stef Hurts Subject: Re: [loud-fans] first impressions Roger Winston wrote: > What if Stalin were alive today and he liked Power Pop? He'd be on Audities... Toodlepip, - -Stef Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:53:42 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! Quoting Stef Hurts : > Hello trout-fans! Once I caught a northwestern bubbleheaded trout and it flopped around for several minutes until I started telling it about my personal life, and then it whomped its head firmly against the side of the boat and killed itself. It was yummy. But this isn't the trout list, sorry. > I just rejoined the list and I'm real and only a figment of my own > imagination. Stef is real, and for those newbies who are wondering, he's all man and not a drag queen. Well, I don't *think* he's a drag queen. Welcome back! ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. :: That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! :: --Thomas Pynchon, _Vineland_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:11:53 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists Mark, you're an okay guy. Your posts are a little long-winded for my tastes, but I don't have to read them. I actually read only about 10% of the posts anyway. I think you have to get yerself a bulldog skin and ignore the couple of folks who just don't like you. Who are they anyway; as in, who the hell are they to you anyway? Of course, that applies to anyone, including myself, but the point is you can't force someone to like you and it doesn't make much difference whether they do or not. It seems there are others on the list who don't mind you being around, so just imagine that your posts are only directed to them. This list may not be the best forum for it, but there's nothing evil about having feelings and expressing them. Even if you left, someone else would have to be a victim, because every tribe needs a victim (I filled out an application once, but it must have got lost amidst the stack of "music reviews" - snort). You could horde up on knowledge about obscure popular music (bonus points if it's French), as that is one form of currency traded around here, but that's a currency that does not have a healthy exchange rate with the US dollar, so I'd suggest putting your efforts elsewhere. I could feed you pieces of survival, but at your first sign of strength I'd turn into your fiercest rival. Thank you, that will be $150 (US). Dr. Murtenstein PS Interbabe Concern is a kick-ass record! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:45:58 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann w/ Scott I suppose Aimee won't be bringing Scott over to the UK next year? - Aimee's show in London next March is being advertised at the moment and I'm kinda wavering over buying tickets - I've lost touch a bit with Aimee (and gigs in general really although I am seeing Calexico next week). But if Scott's playing, then... Mike says: >And if you like kittens and have never been to www.rathergood.com , you're in for something very special indeed. This is a hoot! Ian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:11:11 -0800 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork > Your notable omissions/agreements? first reaction - "Wow - the Meat Puppets. Hadn't thought about them in a while." yay for metion of Husker Du (twice); and The Pogues "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" always will make me grin from ear to ear, especially since it was before the removal of Shane McGowan (must be bad if you get booted from a rowdy Irish band for drinking too much). i'm surprised to see The Jesus and Mary Chain - not sure why - i guess i just didn't think they got that much recognition. Yay for PIL and Tom Waits (x2) - those are a nice surprise to see. i think it's interesting that there are so many albums by the Smiths on that list. there are also quite a few bands i've never heard of, or have heard of and never listened to. i guess i have some cd buying to do. - -- It's well known that if you take a lot of random noise, you can find chance patterns in it, and the Net makes it easier to collect random noise. Dr. James M. Robins, Professor of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at Harvard - -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:24:54 -0500 From: John Sharples Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists Quoting boyof100lists@juno.com: > If my being here bothers you, tell > Dennis. All Loudfans who wish to vote, vote. In a week's time, the > votes could be tabulated. If I'm voted to leave, I promise to leave. If > the votes are more for me to stay, I'll remain. Fair enough, everyone? No effing way! No effing way! When I was a kid there were these two cereals, Quisp and Quake, and then we had to vote one of them off the island, as it were. I was totally traumatized by what I was too young to realize was just a fairly clever marketing gimmick. I was wracked with guilt for years because I voted for Quisp and Quake got the axe. I'll be damned if I'm gonna be forced to relive on loud-fans that very unhappy chapter from my childhood. JS - ------------------------------- This mail sent through Brooklyn Law School WebMail http://www.brooklaw.edu/webmail - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:04:47 -0500 From: janet Subject: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day Quoting John Sharples : > No effing way! No effing way! When I was a kid there were these two > cereals, > Quisp and Quake, and then we had to vote one of them off the island, as it > were. I was totally traumatized by what I was too young to realize was just > a > fairly clever marketing gimmick. I was wracked with guilt for years because > I > voted for Quisp and Quake got the axe. I'll be damned if I'm gonna be forced > > to relive on loud-fans that very unhappy chapter from my childhood. You! It was you who destroyed my beloved Quake. I will never forgive you. Even though Quisp was most definitely cooler. Possible areas for discussion among the old people here: 1. Was there any distinction between Quisp and Quake, flavorwise? 2. Quisp:Feminine::Quake:Masculine - accurate or no? Okay, gotta go - just, belatedly, discovered www.quisp.com. Jeff, one can buy Quisp at Kohl's in Milwaukee. Please bring me a box, thanks! janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:03:09 -0800 From: "Micah Bedwell" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day Hey! Quake had it coming. That Captain Crunch knock-off.... Regards, Micah Bedwell "I have arrived, I am home." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "janet" To: Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:04 PM Subject: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day > Quoting John Sharples : > > > No effing way! No effing way! When I was a kid there were these two > > cereals, > > Quisp and Quake, and then we had to vote one of them off the island, as it > > were. I was totally traumatized by what I was too young to realize was just > > a > > fairly clever marketing gimmick. I was wracked with guilt for years because > > I > > voted for Quisp and Quake got the axe. I'll be damned if I'm gonna be forced > > > > to relive on loud-fans that very unhappy chapter from my childhood. > > You! It was you who destroyed my beloved Quake. I will never forgive you. > Even though Quisp was most definitely cooler. > > Possible areas for discussion among the old people here: > > 1. Was there any distinction between Quisp and Quake, flavorwise? > 2. Quisp:Feminine::Quake:Masculine - accurate or no? > > Okay, gotta go - just, belatedly, discovered www.quisp.com. Jeff, one can buy > Quisp at Kohl's in Milwaukee. Please bring me a box, thanks! > > janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:10:43 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day Quoting janet : > Possible areas for discussion among the old people here: > > 1. Was there any distinction between Quisp and Quake, flavorwise? Not really - but the lighter texture of Quisp affected its mouth-feel in such a way as to nearly amount to a difference in flavor. > 2. Quisp:Feminine::Quake:Masculine - accurate or no? Not literally...but Quake's "masculinity" was so overdetermined that Quisp couldn't help but seem "feminine" in comparison. I mean, here's this big, burly miner dude, plus the cereal was shaped like, what, chunky little gold nuggets?...and Quisp is a skinny-legged little alien guy with an enormous head, a dinky little beanie propeller, odd googly eyes, and dressed like an interstellar Peter Pan. And the cereal was made up of these dainty little bowl-shaped pieces of, well, mostly sugar of course - I'm not sure what they were supposed to represent, but they pretty much melted in your mouth, yielding in such a womanly fashion - whereas you had to *chew* Quake, goddamit. Plus, I mean just *say* "Quisp": does it sound macho to you? I thought not. I'll be presenting a paper on this at the MLA, in which I suggest that the queering of Quisp was a defense formation against the anxiety of Quake's whole "miner" masculine set-up...I mean, c'mon, guys who spend their days among other guys descending rough, dirty shafts? (Plus: little known fact, to preserve its crispness, Quake actually got *harder* in your mouth. I'll say no more.) Dude coulda been in The Village People. Or maybe taking over the stage in a dress, singing songs from _Buffy: The Musical_. Oh dammit, now I've gotta get kicked off the list, don't I. > Okay, gotta go - just, belatedly, discovered www.quisp.com. Jeff, one can buy > Quisp at Kohl's in Milwaukee. Please bring me a box, thanks! I haven't seen it - but then, I haven't looked. I'll do so! ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass np: Gallon Drunk _From the Heart of Town_ - birthday celebrations in Nick's cave, definitely ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:34:03 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day At Saturday 11/23/2002 05:04 PM -0500, janet wrote: >1. Was there any distinction between Quisp and Quake, flavorwise? I remember preferring the taste of Quisp, but maybe that was just a texture thing. Quake was rougher, like Captain Crunch. Quisp melted in your mouth. >2. Quisp:Feminine::Quake:Masculine - accurate or no? Three seconds before I read this, I was just thinking it. I voted for Quisp - partly because of the taste, but I think part of me preferred wispy little underdog Quisp to big bruiser Quake. Something tells me my entire life's path was decided at that moment. But I'd rather not go there. >Okay, gotta go - just, belatedly, discovered www.quisp.com. Jeff, one can >buy >Quisp at Kohl's in Milwaukee. Please bring me a box, thanks! Hey, according to this, Quisp is available in Denver too! I'll have to check out an Albertson's. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:25:36 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mark Staples: what we do all day/Beckon the paining exists On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:24:54 -0500, John Sharples wrote: >I was wracked with guilt for years because I >voted for Quisp and Quake got the axe. Lighten up Sharples. Quisp was better and deserved to survive. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:31:40 -0000 From: "richblath" Subject: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet Following up something that was mentioned by a couple of people in the latest Matthew Sweet debate, there's a copy of a reissue of 100% Fun with the bonus tracks from the Japanese version, which are pretty fabulous. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2250&item=924537900 Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:04:20 EST From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day 1. I thought Quake was a cowboy, not a miner. Didn't Quisp and Quake once have a race from Long Beach to Long Island? 2. Anyone remember the shark-jumping moment Quaker introduced Quangaroos? 3. Wasn't "Quisp Are Feminine Quake" a track from the second Mercury Rev album? 4. I have The Teardrop Explodes' "Kilimanjaro" ablum playing as I write this, and I'm sure several besides me who got the US vinyl (with no lyric sheet) spent years thinking the line from "Sleeping Gas" went: "You can watch Rafferty turn into a cereal". Actually, I prefer it to the correct homonym "serial". It makes Julian Cope seem like even more of a goofball (which is saying something). 5. Hi Stef! Nice to hear from you again. Just like a cartoon by AAP, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:13:53 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quisp: what we eat for breakfast all day OK, neither Melissa (b. 1966) nor I (b. 1967) have any recollection whatsoever of Quisp, Quake, or the Quisp/Quake single-elimination tourney (according to quisp.com, 1970), and we both usually have prodigious memories when it comes to that sort of childhood thing. Remembering last week, that's another story. But... maybe Quisp wasn't marketed in southern WV, and/or wasn't advertised on NBC (the only station either of us got was an NBC affiliate). It's like ZOOM, something we didn't know until you told us about it. I did vote to let the rabbit eat some Trix. That whole "silly rabbit" campaign is nothing if not anti-bunny sadism. later, Miles last played: Sugar, COPPER BLUE and BEASTER in an attempt to like them better (verdict is the Same As It Ever Was -- only OK, too clean, not memorable, which after Husker Du and Mould's first two solo albums equals "huge disappointment") ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #407 *******************************