From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #405 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, November 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 405 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Beth Orton's Bodily Functions [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Beth Orton's Bodily Functions [Dave Walker ] [loud-fans] who are ecto [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! ["Aaron Milenski" ] RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines ["Kunkel, Mark" ] RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! [Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com] RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! ["Amy Lewis" ] [loud-fans] Bill Ricchini [DOUDIE@aol.com] Re:RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines ["richblath" ] [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Who Are Ecto [dmw ] [loud-fans] Format Conversion [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Who Are Ecto [steve ] [loud-fans] first impressions ["Roger Winston" ] Re: [loud-fans] first impressions [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion [Bill Silvers ] Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] Bill Ricchini [Phil Fleming ] RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! ["Chris Murtland" ] Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork [Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] Beth Orton's Bodily Functions I just got back from seeing Beth Orton, with her acoustic band. Midway through the set, during a quiet song and right at the height of emotional intensity, she lets out an incredibly violent sneeze. This threw her off, the guitar player started laughing, she started laughing, and the next thing you know, they've stopped playing and she's apologizing to the crowd. "It started halfway through the song, and I thought I had it under control, but then it just came all of a sudden! Sorry!" Then, for the last song of the encore, her band left the stage. She's tinkering on her guitar and dancing around a bit before the song, when she comments that she really has to take a wee. Someone from the audience yells that we'll wait for her, and she says, "Really! You all wouldn't mind if I took a wee. I promise I'll come back." The crowd cheers, and she trots off stage. Two or three minutes later, she came back to play her last song, appearing noticably relaxed. - --Michael, who thought it was nice that Drew Carey's TV shows are winding down so that he would have time to be Aimee Mann's drummer for the tour. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:45:26 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! Stewart Mason wrote: > > There used to be even more women on this list. However, I know at least > two who dropped off because this moronic fuckwit with a persecution complex > kept trying to make every single thread All About Him And How Mean Everyone > Is Because They're Prejudiced About Southerners, Christians, People Who See > Upside Down Crosses That Aren't Really There And Douglas Coupland, To The > Point That Some People Actually Started To Miss Mike Breen A Little Bit. You know, I'm sorry, but for someone to feel compelled to leave a large, thriving list because of one person's posting style strikes me as, well-- lame. Delete buttons were invented for a reason. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:54:33 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Beth Orton's Bodily Functions Beth Orton is a _very_ funny person, at least as I've gleaned from interviews and her live demeanor. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:20:13 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! Stewart flames out: >There used to be even more women on this list. I certainly won't try to speak for any women on the list, but I'm much more put off by your (and Roger's and Glenn's) bitching about Mark than I am by anyhting he's ever posted. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:46:58 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] who are ecto On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, jenny grover wrote: > Miles Goosens wrote: > > While > > I feel sure that ecto-type lists would have an even higher percentage of > > women, this here list seems less skewed than others. > > What's an ecto-type list? there's one ecto list (hosted at smoe; majordomo will hook up those interested); it's named after a record/artist you've almost certainly never heard of (_ecto_; rhodes, happy), and it revolves primarily around a loose core of mostly-female or female-fronted acts who tend to have (mostly) soprano voices and (mostly) impressionistic lyrics: kate bush, tori amos, sarah mclachlan, etc. But it's not all pianos and soft guitars; ecto was where i first heard of artists like hammerbox, ednaswap, falling joys, kristeen young, etc. And it's not all female, either: folks like peter gabriel, david sylvain and that dreadful dead can dance guy get ample time. Many of the artists who fall under the very encompassing umbrella of "ecto" have (or had) their own mailing lists: at one time or another i think i was on lists for liz phair, aimee mann, penelope houston, ani difranco, etc. This is eternally a work in progress, but a great resource: http://www.ectoguide.org - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:33:43 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! > > Point That Some People Actually Started To Miss Mike Breen A Little Bit. > I missed Mike Breen from the day he left. I'm not kidding. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:48:21 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! At Friday 11/22/2002 07:20 AM -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >I certainly won't try to speak for any women on the list, but I'm >much more put off by your (and Roger's and Glenn's) bitching about >Mark than I am by anyhting he's ever posted. Man, you want to shade my sun/steal my fun away. I guess from now on I'll only lurk. Unless I have something important to say. Oh wait... I forgot... *everything* I say is important! Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:00:11 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] HI!!! At 02:27 AM 11/22/2002 -0500, jenny grover wrote: >Miles Goosens wrote: >> >> I'm sure men are in the majority here, but Loud-Fans has the >> largest percentage of female listers of any music list I've been on. > >That's a scary thought. Really? Is this because (1) the other lists to which you belong have a much higher number of women (either in absolute terms or as active participants), (2) you see Loud-Fans as male-dominated, or (3) all of the above. (Or, heck, (4) some other reason entirely.) I'm saying all of this without irony or sarcasm -- I'm really curious as to what you (or others) think. For what its worth, here are the music lists I subscribe to. All of these are guesses (but with the list I run, idealcopy, it's a damn good guess), of course -- it's not like "snugglebearhappiness@aol.com" is automatically a woman: fegmaniax (Robyn Hitchcock) - probably proportional to loud-fans in female representation idealcopy (Wire) - about 95% male Avalon (Roxy Music) - come to think of it, this one probably has a higher XX chromosome factor than Loud-Fans. RCSoup (Jason & the Scorchers) - 80% male as far as I can tell Richard Thompson - hmm, dunno - prominent female posters like Pam Winters make me think that maybe there are two lists I'm on that beat Loud-Fans, but I have no idea of the real numbers... I'd still be willing to bet that Loud-Fans is less skewed male. Dan Sallitt and Michael Bowen might weigh in here with their impressions... >> While >> I feel sure that ecto-type lists would have an even higher percentage of >> women, this here list seems less skewed than others. > >What's an ecto-type list? Thanks to doug for fielding that one before I could toss it to him -- since I have little or no interest in those artists, I've never done more than take a cursory look at the ecto list's archives. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:47:41 -0600 From: "Kunkel, Mark" Subject: [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines What the hell is "dad rock"? Here's a line from a review of The Vines in the mag that had the 100 best albums of the eighties: But Highly Evolved has 'dad rock' written all over it. It reeks of product, right down to the special $6 purchase price most stores are pushing: "Why not check out the Vines?" I thought I might go see the Vines in Toledo over Thanksgiving, where I'll be visiting family. (And Mission of Burma in Detroit this Sat. Huzzah!) I don't know a damn thing about the Vines, but am inclined to check them out. Thumbs up or down from anyone? - -- Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:57:20 +0000 From: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines Mark asked: > What the hell is "dad rock"? It's a Brit music press term for a particular kind of conservative retro sound, meaning the sort of music that the average 18-30 year old's dad, who still digs his old Stones, Cream, and Beatles LPs, might like. It's always struck me as a bit of a low blow - you know, 'this is music that your PARENTS would enjoy'. Paul Weller and Ocean Colour Scene would be the exemplars of dad-rock, I guess. peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:15:06 -0500 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! > From: Keegstra, Russell [mailto:RK9@tmw.com] > > Stewart flames out: > >There used to be even more women on this list. > > I certainly won't try to speak for any women on the list, but I'm > much more put off by your (and Roger's and Glenn's) bitching about > Mark than I am by anyhting he's ever posted. > > Russ Please, don't speak for me. When I joined this list, the topics were usually interesting, stimulating, and often fun. Also, more women posted then. Sue, ana, Janet, and I were all relatively active on the list. I don't for a minute think that Mark's excessive, and often inane, posts are what have driven any of them away. I'm sure each of us has our own reason for either leaving the list entirely or stepping back into primarily lurking (that's what I do now). I will speak for myself here and say that I have stayed on the list, waiting for the interesting, stimulating, and fun posts. They still happen, thankfully, it's just that there are 'other things' here to wade through to get to the good stuff. CONTROVERSY CONTENT: This thread has caused me to ponder the possibility that Mark brings such a barrage of feelings with him in an almost caricature-like representation of the Feminine, that perhaps the 'balance' brought by women participating more frequently is no longer necessary. Kinda like, if I'm going to a show and drag queens take over, I probably won't try to 'out-dress' the performers. I'll sit in the back and enjoy the show until it gets too weird. Discuss.... Speaking in my own voice, -julianne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:15:48 -0500 From: "Amy Lewis" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! delurking on a rainy day: julianne wrote: > CONTROVERSY CONTENT: > This thread has caused me to ponder the possibility that Mark brings such a > barrage of feelings with him in an almost caricature-like representation of > the Feminine, that perhaps the 'balance' brought by women participating more > frequently is no longer necessary. i'm curious as to what "feminine" aspects you correlate with mark's style of posting, unless you mean a girliness in the microscopic detail with which he shared his emotions. i dunno. i tend not to post much because a) i'm busy at work, and b) i have low-grade fear that i might say something dumb and have it shot down publicly. i think that the barrage of feelings about mark stem more from the too-much-information, self-centered, highly defensive nature of his posts. that and he became such a caricature that he became an easy target for snide commentary. maybe once everyone gets cracking on their best of 2002 lists, we'll start seeing some more interesting, stimulating, and fun posts. fondly remembering the rush of good feeling and get-to-know-your-neighborism that swelled earlier this year when we all submitted little bio pages to dmw, amy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:19:10 EST From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Bill Ricchini Elliot Smith fans alert. If you wished that Elliot Smith had put out more records like EITHER/OR, then you should immediately pick up Bill Ricchini's ORDINARY TIME. My only problem with it, is that it sounds so incredibly like EITHER/OR... possibly to a fault. It's a really beautiful homemade sounding record though. Check it out. (It's on a label I've never heard of: Megaforce Records.... I found it on half.com.) After two listens, the Beth Gibbons record sounds awfully flat to me... maybe it was really the beats that I liked about Portishead. The new Sinead O' Connor record, SEAN NOS NUA, is her best since, dare I say it LION AND THE COBRA. Also, Glenn's raving about Tori Amos' SCARLET'S WALK is indeed warranted and I hope someone else out there is enjoying Cornershop's HANDCREAM FOR A NEW GENERATION as much as I am. Too bad they are no more. Has anyone heard the new Destroyer record? I have heard pans and praise equally. Steve Matrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:10:23 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re:RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! Kinda like, if I'm going to a show and drag queens take over, I probably won't try to 'out-dress' the performers. I'll sit in the back and enjoy the show until it gets too weird. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which show is this where the drag queens took over? Are you sure you don't mean "rebels from Chechnya" 'cause I'm having trouble remembering the last drag queen hostage situation. Actually, what *does* this mean? I'd like to discuss it, but it's so freakin' bizarre I don't quite know what to say. As I read the whole paragraph about Mark and the Womanly Balance, it just seems to me that fundamentally you've got issues with gay men. Granted, Mark Staples is the most evil person since Hitler, but I'm absolutely unable to understand what he does that's so bothersome. You know what bothers me? Endless mile long posts about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Why can't we ban the next person who dares mention that boring fucking show? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:40:09 -0000 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines "Why not check out the Vines?" > I thought I might go see the Vines in Toledo over Thanksgiving, where I'll be visiting family. (And Mission of Burma in Detroit this Sat. Huzzah!) I don't know a damn thing about the Vines, but am inclined to check them out. Thumbs up or down from anyone? > > -- Mark The Vines tend to get lumped together with the Hives/Strokes/White Stripes as the saviours of rock'n' roll. They do have a few decent tunes on their album - 3 or 4 - but are probably even more over-hyped than the above named bands. I saw them play a set at one of the festivals this summer in the UK, which the compere reckoned was going to be one of the most talked about sets of the weekend - well if it was, then it would have been as the biggest let down of the weekend as the good songs were too few and far between. Songs like Highly Evolved and Get Free have gots loads of garagey energy and attitude, and one or two of the slower ones are good, but overall I was waiting for an improvement that never came. A mate of mine in Aus says that a year ago they were playing minor support slots all over the place and there is much confusion amongst people who saw them then as to how they came to be chosen for the hype treatment - but I think loud-fans has vented its collective spleen on that subject before. Richard np Chris Cacavas - Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dad rock?/The Vines On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Kunkel, Mark wrote: > I thought I might go see the Vines in Toledo over Thanksgiving, where > I'll be visiting family. (And Mission of Burma in Detroit this Sat. > Huzzah!) I don't know a damn thing about the Vines, but am inclined > to check them out. Thumbs up or down from anyone? Thumbs up after spinning HE last night. Rocked pretty hard. SGs loaded & ready. The Soundtrack Of Our Lives are also a must-see. Great music & stage show ca. 1973 or so, if you like that sort of thing. Floyd, Raspberries, Wizzard. Also of note: Citizen Bird (Iggy fronts VU) and The Cato Salsa Experience (Mountain/Blue Cheer). What's with the old-music referents? They fit, that's why. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:39:04 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Who Are Ecto there's one ecto list (hosted at smoe; majordomo will hook up those interested); it's named after a record/artist you've almost certainly never heard of (_ecto_; rhodes, happy), and it revolves primarily around a loose core of mostly-female or female-fronted acts who tend to have (mostly) soprano voices and (mostly) impressionistic lyrics: kate bush, tori amos, sarah mclachlan, etc. I'ved never heard of Ecto before now, but I have heard Happy Rhodes. She sounds nothing like, say, Kate Bush. I don't want to say 'original' because I don't like her much, but she has this spacy pop/new age sound that really is unique. Not like Eyna though. Ecto does sound interesting. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:43:03 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bill Ricchini On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone heard the new Destroyer record? I have heard pans and praise > equally. Thumbs down from me. Though I can't say I really get what he's trying to do anymore. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:49:46 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork > ... most evil person since Hitler ... Does this mean it's time to invoke the H*tler rule and talk about something else? So what does everyone think of Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the 80s (http://pitchforkmedia.com/top/80s/)? I thought it was kind of interesting, even though DAYDREAM NATION is nowhere near the best album of the 80s, it's not even the best album from the 80s with the word NATION in the title. - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:59:31 -0800 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork > > ... most evil person since Hitler ... > > Does this mean it's time to invoke the H*tler rule and talk about > something else? A-HA!!! someone else used the hitler rule! i got dragged out and interrogated when i said something like that a year or so ago. i feel so validated... - -- It's well known that if you take a lot of random noise, you can find chance patterns in it, and the Net makes it easier to collect random noise. Dr. James M. Robins, Professor of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at Harvard - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:05:56 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Who Are Ecto On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 AWeiss4338@aol.com wrote: > I'ved never heard of Ecto before now, but I have heard Happy Rhodes. She > sounds nothing like, say, Kate Bush. I don't want to say 'original' because I > don't like her much, but she has this spacy pop/new age sound that really is > unique. Not like Eyna though. Ecto does sound interesting. > Andrea the new-age thing is a fairly recent development; the early records are more folk-oriented and show the influence of bush much more plainly (and there are considerable timbral similarities between the vocalists). i think her recorded output is spotty m'self, but she's a riveting live performer; not at all dour (as i'd guessed beforehand) and the multi-octave range (3+) is astounding. Andrea, i dare say you might like ecto if you didn't find the traffic level burdensome. (probably a few less posts daily than loudfans) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:28:42 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Format Conversion Without going into the sordid details of why I ripped all my CDs into WMA format, I've now decided that was a mistake, and I'm thinking I should convert them to MP3. There seem to be a million programs out there that will do this conversion. Does anyone here have any recommendations of programs to use to do the conversion? Will converting from WMA to MP3 result in a loss in sound quality relative to ripping directly to MP3 (holding bit rates constant)? mm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:33:02 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork (i lied) conspicuous in absence what, no clash!? translator, _heartbeats and triggers_ psychedelic furs bad brains i have a lot of trouble with "damaged" or black flag being promoted as the finest example of hardcore (see above), and i think _slip it in_ is amuch stronger record from bf anyway. too many dino jr., police, prince, pixes, replacements and sonic youth records. paul's boutique ranked too high, as always. it's good, but it's not THAT good. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:37:29 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Who Are Ecto On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 12:39 PM, AWeiss4338@aol.com wrote: > I'ved never heard of Ecto before now, but I have heard Happy Rhodes. > She > sounds nothing like, say, Kate Bush. Her music may not, but in her upper vocal range she can sound uncannily like Kate. Maybe you haven't enough of her stuff for this to click. - - Steve __________ To be sure, the fatuous hypocrisy of the Bush case for war is no reason to let Saddam Hussein drop a nuclear bomb on your head. Iraq may be an imminent menace to the United States even though George W. Bush says it is. You would think that if honest and persuasive arguments were available, the administration would offer them. But maybe not. - Michael Kinsley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:39:08 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: [loud-fans] first impressions Our resident Internet Troll #1 on 11/22/2002 11:10:23 AM wrote: > Granted, Mark Staples is the most evil person since Hitler, but I'm > absolutely unable to understand what he does that's so bothersome. Ya know, aside from the genital references, I don't find Staples as bothersome as some people think I do. Not being able to pull off being a bully in real life, I have to settle for being a CyberBully, and Mark's just such an easy target. I just feel compelled to make fun of his posts in the same way that others, for example, may feel compelled to respond negatively to any mention of 125 Records. > You know what bothers me? Endless mile long posts about Buffy the > Vampire Slayer. Why can't we ban the next person who dares mention > that boring fucking show? Is Buffy as boring as Frontline? Anyway, this whole endless Mark thing has set something simmering in my brain that I wish to discuss - the issue of judging someone by their musical tastes. One of Mark's deals is that he really wants in with this crowd because we all share common musical tastes, and therefore we must be okay people deep down. I've found that as I'm getting older (not necessarily "growing up", though this newfound revelation may pass for some sort of maturity), that I'm not as hip to judging people based on their musical tastes as I used to be. In fact, I'm somewhat astounded that attitude was ever so important to me as I remember it being. I don't think I'm going to go running out embracing any Celine Dion fans anytime soon (unless they're hot), but nor am I going to dismiss an entire group of individuals based on them owning one of her CDs. Yes, I've read High Fidelity, but I'm pretty sure I was coming to this realization on my own before that... What if Stalin were alive today and he liked Power Pop? Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:47:43 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] first impressions At 12:39 PM 11/22/02 -0700, Roger Winston wrote: >Anyway, this whole endless Mark thing has set something simmering in my >brain that I wish to discuss - the issue of judging someone by their >musical tastes. One of Mark's deals is that he really wants in with this >crowd because we all share common musical tastes, and therefore we must be >okay people deep down. I've found that as I'm getting older (not >necessarily "growing up", though this newfound revelation may pass for >some sort of maturity), that I'm not as hip to judging people based on >their musical tastes as I used to be. In fact, I'm somewhat astounded >that attitude was ever so important to me as I remember it being. I don't >think I'm going to go running out embracing any Celine Dion fans anytime >soon (unless they're hot), but nor am I going to dismiss an entire group >of individuals based on them owning one of her CDs. One of my best friends in the Bay Area is a woman who's just as happy listening to the Gipsy Kings or Jimmy Buffett as she is listening to Anton Barbeau; complete lack of discernment as far as music goes, but she's a wonderful human being. Conversely, I love power electronics and noise music, but many of the people into that sort of thing are thorough-going misanthropes with dodgy politics, and I tend to steer clear of them. Musical taste only tells you so much about a person, and basing your choice of friends on what sort of music they like is something you should grow out of by the time you're 25. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Job_, chapter 1, verse 21 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:46:49 -0600 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion At 02:28 PM 11/22/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Without going into the sordid details of why I ripped all my CDs into WMA >format, I've now decided that was a mistake, and I'm thinking I should >convert them to MP3. There seem to be a million programs out there that >will do this conversion. Does anyone here have any recommendations of >programs to use to do the conversion? I've had "better than anything else I've tried" results with Exact Audio Copy. I'm presuming that you're going to rip the CD's again? Dunno about EAC's proficiency with that. http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ then (from the suggestion I got elsewhere): >Go to http://elitedae.cjb.net and click on the Chris Myden guide to >creating amazing mp3s for a great guide on how to use EAC to the best of >its capabilities. hope this helps, b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:50:10 -0600 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion >I'm presuming that you're going to rip the CD's again? >Dunno about EAC's proficiency with that. Um, gosh, I need more caffeine. EAC is dandy for ripping MP3's. If you're planning to convert your WMA files to MP3, I dunno. b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:57:04 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Format Conversion On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:50:10 -0600, Bill Silvers wrote: >Um, gosh, I need more caffeine. > >EAC is dandy for ripping MP3's. If you're planning to convert your WMA >files to MP3, I dunno. Ditto. Although I don't know if for a fact, I would be very surprised if an WMA -> MP3 conversion did not lower the quality. My hunch is that it would in effect convert back to WAV and then recompress. If you have the time, I would rip them again using EAC (and LAME). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:44:15 -0600 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork Steve Holtebeck asked: >So what does everyone think of Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the 80s >(http://pitchforkmedia.com/top/80s/)? I thought it was kind of >interesting, even though DAYDREAM NATION is nowhere near the best album >of the 80s, it's not even the best album from the 80s with the word >NATION in the title. I thought it was interesting too, though you could probably make a list of "the top 100 albums of the 80s that the Pitchfork staff didn't see fit to pick" that'd be just as good. Just for one school that got skipped by the east-coast indie-rock-centric Pitchforkers, I'd offer up just about any of the best roots-rock/twang records that got made in the decade before "alt-country." Any 80's list missing any records by The Blasters, Los Lobos, Green On Red, The Beat Farmers, Dwight Yoakam, Rosanne Cash, etc., is missing some stuff it shouldn't. Did I miss the Game Theory mention? and that's just one school, b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:57:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork I was surprised, given their 4 A.D. fetish, not to see any Throwing Muses. And two Cocteau twins albums is at least one too many. Another Eighties trend not represented was the rising popularity of Afro-pop (Fela, Ade, et al.). No go-go, either. But it could have been a lot worse. - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:13:27 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork At 12:57 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Tim Walters wrote: >Another Eighties trend not represented was the rising popularity of >Afro-pop (Fela, Ade, et al.). No go-go, either. Wasn't go-go kind of stillborn as an album form? All I remember are some Chuck Brown and EU 12-inches and the soundtrack to that horrid-sounding movie with Art Garfunkel. >But it could have been a lot worse. Absolutely. But THREE FEET HIGH AND RISING belongs in PAUL'S BOUTIQUE's spot, although I'm not sure it deserves to be #3 of the decade: the samples are just as clever, if not more so, but the rapping is far superior. (Personally, I think the Pitchfork guy gives Prince Paul way too much credit in the write-up. Yes, the samples are incredible, but the heart and soul of THREE FEET HIGH is in the interplay between Trugoy and Posdnuos.) Good call on the similarity between PAUL'S BOUTIQUE and ODELAY, though. S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! - --- Amy Lewis wrote: > i'm curious as to what "feminine" aspects you > correlate with mark's style > of posting, unless you mean a girliness in the > microscopic detail with > which he shared his emotions. i dunno. i tend not to > post much because a) > i'm busy at work, and b) i have low-grade fear that > i might say something > dumb and have it shot down publicly. Also, the reason I don't post that often. Most of what I post goes unreplied generally. I'd also like to add c) I don't usually have a lot to say about any one topic. By the time I form my opinion, the topic has passed (probably just like this one) and people forget about it. Oh yeah, I need to add d) I don't have a whole lot of internet access (ah, there's the downside of working retail). > i think that the barrage of feelings about mark stem > more from the > too-much-information, self-centered, highly > defensive nature of his posts. > that and he became such a caricature that he became > an easy target for > snide commentary. maybe once everyone gets cracking > on their best of 2002 > lists, we'll start seeing some more interesting, > stimulating, and fun > posts. Well... I can't guarantee all three on my end, given the relative head-scratcher of a DID list I gave a while back. > fondly remembering the rush of good feeling and > get-to-know-your-neighborism that swelled earlier > this year when we all > submitted little bio pages to dmw, > amy Dammit, where was I when this happened?! I knew my year away from the list was going to be a good one! ah.....MOFO! Just a little confused about Chris Murtland's reply to my last post, Phil F. NP... Some merengue compilation bootleg that my grandmother gave me (it boggles my mind wondering why she thought I'd like it [though I kinda do]) Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bill Ricchini Megaforce Records... the label that initially gave us Metallica????!!!!! Can't be!!! Phil F. NP... same merengue compilation bootleg - --- DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > Elliot Smith fans alert. If you wished that Elliot > Smith had put out more > records like EITHER/OR, then you should immediately > pick up Bill Ricchini's > ORDINARY TIME. My only problem with it, is that it > sounds so incredibly like > EITHER/OR... possibly to a fault. It's a really > beautiful homemade sounding > record though. Check it out. (It's on a label I've > never heard of: > Megaforce Records.... I found it on half.com.) Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:03:58 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] HI!!! Phil wrote: > Just a little confused about Chris Murtland's reply to > my last post, > Phil F. Phil, I am a little confused by it, too. It had no meaning other than it was late at night and I started feeling like sending out strange posts with no meaning. CM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:26:55 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork Bill Silvers wrote: > I thought it was interesting too, though you could probably make a list of > "the top 100 albums of the 80s that the Pitchfork staff didn't see fit to > pick" that'd be just as good. Just for one school that got skipped by the > east-coast indie-rock-centric Pitchforkers, I'd offer up just about any of > the best roots-rock/twang records that got made in the decade before > "alt-country." Any 80's list missing any records by The Blasters, Los > Lobos, Green On Red, The Beat Farmers, Dwight Yoakam, Rosanne Cash, etc., > is missing some stuff it shouldn't. Three glaring omissions I noticed immediately were WINE AND ROSES by the Dream Syndicate, Marshall Crenshaw's debut, and SHOOT OUT THE LIGHTS. Their list seems unfairly dominated by the late-80s. It's clear, based on reading the blurbs that accompany the reviews, that most of these Pitchforkers are too young to have experienced the early 80s firsthand, so their ranking could be based on their own experiences. It's strange how some bands like the Pixies and Sonic Youth end up being canonized over history, while other equally important bands end up being completely forgotten. And speaking of male-dominated, not only no go-go, but no Go-Gos, nor Bangles, nor Pretenders, etc.. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:41:59 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork At 02:44 PM 11/22/2002 -0600, Bill Silvers wrote: >Steve Holtebeck asked: > >>So what does everyone think of Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the 80s >>(http://pitchforkmedia.com/top/80s/)? I thought it was kind of >>interesting, even though DAYDREAM NATION is nowhere near the best album >>of the 80s, it's not even the best album from the 80s with the word >>NATION in the title. > >I thought it was interesting too, though you could probably make a list of >"the top 100 albums of the 80s that the Pitchfork staff didn't see fit to >pick" that'd be just as good. Just for one school that got skipped by the >east-coast indie-rock-centric Pitchforkers, I'd offer up just about any of >the best roots-rock/twang records that got made in the decade before >"alt-country." Any 80's list missing any records by The Blasters, Los >Lobos, Green On Red, The Beat Farmers, Dwight Yoakam, Rosanne Cash, etc., >is missing some stuff it shouldn't. I agree with Bill (subtracting Los Lobos and the Blasters, neither of whom clicked for me, and probably substituting Jason & the Scorchers and T-Bone Burnett's self-titled album -- which features some fine playing from those Los Lobos fellas I don't like as Los Lobos), and of course there are several movements and schools and whatnot that they've undervalued or overlooked entirely. Yeah, I want me some Game Theory and Midnight Oil and Wire and Richard Thompson and lots of other goodies that don't seem to be on their radar. But at the same time, I think whatever its shortcomings and omissions, that's a damn fine list of records. If I were just discovering music outside the top 40, or won a contest where the prize was those 100 records, or had my CDs stolen *again* (knock on wood), I cannot tell you how delighted I would be to get these 100 albums! In the wake of a theft, if these were to show up on my doorstep, I'd keep all the ones I owned before (77 of them), sell the six or seven (THRILLER, Meat Puppets, GRACELAND, a few more) that I definitely hate, and enjoy discovering the 15 or so that I never got around to trying out in the first place. The natural reflex is to carp about omissions, but that list pretty much kicks ass. There's also a '90s list, at http://pitchforkmedia.com/top/90s/. I owned 47 of these at one point, but I sold a number of the ones that I didn't like (E. Smith, GbV, BtS, Pavement), so I'm down to 35 that I've kept. I really, really like maybe 30 of those, and hold the others (Sugar, for instance) out of collecting/completist reasons more than actual listening enjoyment. Going from more than 3/4 congruence with my peers all the way down to 1/3 is an accurate representation of how I felt in the '90s as my pals' tastes began to diverge in a major way from my own. On the other hand, I got to sell Jer that GbV box, which made both of us happy, I hope! (Jer, a rather weighty parcel is headed your way as of today. Really!) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:01:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sitting on a pitchfork Stewart Mason wrote: > Wasn't go-go kind of stillborn as an album form? You could definitely make that case, but the TROUBLE FUNK LIVE double album (not to be confused with SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., which is a bit of a stiff) is amazing, if rather uncompromising in its appeal. It's one long track, uninterrupted except for side breaks, and has lots of call-and-response with the audience--just like a go-go show. > All I remember are > some Chuck Brown and EU 12-inches and the soundtrack to that > horrid-sounding movie with Art Garfunkel. The movie's terrible except for the concert scenes, but the music is just fine. I like Trouble Funk a lot better than EU or even Chuck Brown, but that might just be because I actually got to see them a few times back in the day. I highly recommend their retrospective DROPPIN' BOMBS. - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #405 *******************************