From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #363 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, October 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 363 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] more muddying of the waters [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Ages if us [Carolyn Dorsey ] [loud-fans] name that car commercial tune [jenny grover ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:15:56 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more muddying of the waters At 02:56 PM 10/15/02 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Sad to say, I never went much further in attempting to define "ska" than >"reggae twice as fast." That def. seems to work pretty well w/the >second-wave bands from which I first heard the term: The Specials, The >Selecter, and the (English) Beat (whose range was always broader). The >effect is that that distinctive guitar accent, rather than being on the >downbeats as in classic reggae (w/almost nothing on one and the kick drum >on three), is on the *offbeats*. And it seems to describe the tracks on >the one comp of original Jamaican ska I have as well. I was under the impression that original ska was a precursor to reggae. Rightly or wrongly? Oh, and Jeff--would you send me a copy of the swaptober email again? I seem to have lost it... Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley There appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Second Book of the Kings_, chapter 2, verse 11 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:36:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more muddying of the waters On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Matthew Weber wrote: > I was under the impression that original ska was a precursor to > reggae. Rightly or wrongly? True -- predates it by about a decade, I think, maybe less. There's some persistent tale about how one summer (66?) it was just too hot in Jamaica to play ska, and so a combination of slooowed-down ska music and rock steady's political lyrics became reggae. Or something. But ska was definitely first. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re:[loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 dana-boy@juno.com wrote: > [...] check the song samples before buying. I'll say no more. Yeah, I didn't get a very Kraut-rock feel from them either. I could see how some elements of it might have been influenced thereby, though. Which is about what you'd expect, right? Music that makes explicit reference to other musicians or genres in its name is rarely what it claims to be. Like Electronic, who aren't all that electronic. A Certain Ratio don't sound like Eno, Velocity Girl don't sound that much like Primal Scream... someone else can make the joke about Madonna's "Music" being misnamed, because I actually liked most of it... a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:55:44 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] more muddying of the waters At 05:36 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Matthew Weber wrote: > >> I was under the impression that original ska was a precursor to >> reggae. Rightly or wrongly? > >True -- predates it by about a decade, I think, maybe less. There's some >persistent tale about how one summer (66?) it was just too hot in Jamaica >to play ska, and so a combination of slooowed-down ska music and rock >steady's political lyrics became reggae. Or something. But ska was >definitely first. My understanding is that rock steady is what was invented when ska slowed down considerably and the lyrics started to concern the rude boys (rudies), the tough ghetto youth of Kingston. This did happen in 1966, although some people discount the "too darn hot" theory by claiming that the first rock steady records came out early in the year. Anyway, the general idea is that rock steady then turned into reggae in late '67/early '68 (Leslie Kong's "Do the Reggay" is credited with the birth of the sound and the name, although again, reggae fans love a good scrap over what was "the first real reggae record" as much as other folks love to play "What was the first rock and roll song?"). Early reggae split the difference tempo-wise, neither as fast as most ska nor as slow as most rock steady. I've never quite figured out "lovers rock," though. S NP: LAMARABIRABI -- Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:49:21 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Ms. T (ns) Per the new Matador newsflash, Mary Timony finally has her website up at www.marytimony.com It's not as weird as I'd hoped, but there are two unreleased mp3's and some of her drawings which are kind of neat. According to the website she'll be selling underwear soon, but the site doesn't specify...oh, lord, I'm sorry for even thinking that. Forgive me. Note to glenn et al.: she's playing near you on the 18th according to the tours section. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:35:32 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! Yeah, I didn't get a very Kraut-rock feel from them either. I could see how some elements of it might have been influenced thereby, though. Which is about what you'd expect, right? Music that makes explicit reference to other musicians or genres in its name is rarely what it claims to be. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, maybe, except when people start advertising it on-list thusly: "If you like Krautrock (Neu, Can, Kraftwerk) or Stereolab ca. '94-'96, esp. MARS AUDIAC QUINTET, you'll very much enjoy ANNEU'ED." ...hence the warning. I sure hope that A Certain Ratio's record company didn't run ads saying "If you like Another Green World..." but if they did, shame on them!! BTW, heard a pretty keen cover of Brian Eno's "The True Wheel" on WFMU yesterday, by the band Pink Filth (of whom I had not heard). A google search will find them. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > Well, maybe, except when people start advertising it on-list thusly: By which you mean someone with whom you obviously have some personal issue. Otherwise, why the vitriol? > "If you like Krautrock (Neu, Can, Kraftwerk) or Stereolab ca. '94-'96, > esp. MARS AUDIAC QUINTET, you'll very much enjoy ANNEU'ED." I heard Stereolab ca. 94 in the songs. If you didn't, fine. Getting all bent about it doesn't make much sense. Last time I checked, it wasn't against the law, or the "rules" of this list, to claim something sounded like something else. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:01:08 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! > Well, maybe, except when people start advertising it on-list thusly: By which you mean someone with whom you obviously have some personal issue. Otherwise, why the vitriol? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Vitriol, my ass. Just because I think that you and your wife tend to be mildly dishonest doesn't mean I can't point it out when you run a misleading ad on-list. Nonetheless, you ought to thank me for focusing far more attention on this album than it probably deserves. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:12:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New release - Krautrocky! On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > Last time I checked, it wasn't against the law, or the "rules" of this > list, to claim something sounded like something else. Nor to claim that it doesn't. Actually, it's funny; I don't remember ever seeing the etiquette of self-promo posts hashed out on any mailing lists I'm on, despite the way that, well, you know, the Internet tends to argue about itself a lot. My memory, imperfect though it is, says that on loud-fans, folks have generally engaged in serious self-deprecation, so that promo posts amounted to "hey, this thing I made now exists if you care". And I don't recall anyone dissing other listmembers' projects. If you actually talk something up onlist, though, it puts people in a difficult position should they disagree with your rosy assessment. I mean, Dana's got a temper -- I'm obviously aware of that -- but I don't think the post would have raised any eyebrows if it had been about another band. "Check the samples before buying" is hardly a vicious personal attack. So it seems to me like there's a trade-off there: the more someone hypes something onlist, the more they put it into the realm of records that are actually under discussion. And the discussion can go either way. I speak only for myself here, though I realized recently that I've been on loudfans for nearly a third of my life to date and that sort of freaked me out. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:32:34 -0500 From: zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu Subject: [loud-fans] Sonic Youth on Sundance channel Kool Thing, 20 Years of Sonic Youth, on Sundance Channel on about right now. if yer interested and didn't already know, sorry about the short notice. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:44:56 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: [loud-fans] Ages if us (was: New release - Krautrocky!) At 10:12 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >I speak only for myself here, though I realized recently that I've been on >loudfans for nearly a third of my life to date and that sort of freaked me >out. That realization -- that calculation -- is so cool it's worth dragging out the exhausted but entirely appropriate expression "so cool" for. I've only been on loud-fans for about a fifth of my life, but I'm a lot older than Aaron is. janet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:22:03 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ages if us At 10:44 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Janet Ingraham Dwyer wrote: >At 10:12 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >>I speak only for myself here, though I realized recently that I've been on >>loudfans for nearly a third of my life to date and that sort of freaked me >>out. > >That realization -- that calculation -- is so cool it's worth dragging out >the exhausted but entirely appropriate expression "so cool" for. I've only >been on loud-fans for about a fifth of my life, but I'm a lot older than >Aaron is. Let's see, I'm closer to Janet's age than Aaron's...hm, 33 divided by 8...joined in mid-summer, probably a little after my birthday, so there's no real need to figure out fractions...little over a quarter of my life so far. Cool. S NP: GRIMSTONE -- The Lucky Bishops ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:50:40 -0400 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ages if us I believe that this one reason why time seems to go faster as one gets older. A year to a ten year old is 1/10th of his life, to a twenty year 1/20th, etc. A year to me now just doesn't seem to feel that long. It takes just as long to get things done of course but it just doesn't feel like a huge amount of time. Carolyn on 10/16/02 12:22 AM, Stewart Mason at flamingo@theworld.com wrote: > At 10:44 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Janet Ingraham Dwyer wrote: >> At 10:12 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >>> I speak only for myself here, though I realized recently that I've been on >>> loudfans for nearly a third of my life to date and that sort of freaked me >>> out. >> >> That realization -- that calculation -- is so cool it's worth dragging out >> the exhausted but entirely appropriate expression "so cool" for. I've only >> been on loud-fans for about a fifth of my life, but I'm a lot older than >> Aaron is. > > Let's see, I'm closer to Janet's age than Aaron's...hm, 33 divided by > 8...joined in mid-summer, probably a little after my birthday, so there's > no real need to figure out fractions...little over a quarter of my life so > far. Cool. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:50:14 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] name that car commercial tune I've seen a car commercial twice now (no, I didn't notice what car. See how well advertising works on me?) with a song that sounds like it should be titled "I've Got To Have You," and with lyrics that go (among other things), "I've got to have you/like the forest got to have the trees." I'm not turning it up on Google. It's a guy singing, and it's kinda 60's garage flavored pop, from the bit we get to hear. It shows a guy flying a kite out of a sun roof in one shot. Anyone got any idea what this song is and who it's by? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:53:22 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ages if us And, of course, for comparisons to be meaningful, life fractions spent on the list would need to be between people who have been on the list for the same number of years. For example, I've been on this list approximately 1/14th of my life, but I ain't *that* old. Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #363 *******************************