From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #345 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, October 2 2002 Volume 02 : Number 345 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] some drummer dude [Dana Paoli ] RE: [loud-fans] some drummer dude ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back [Jon Gabriel ] [loud-fans] soft boys -- advance notice (ns) [dana-boy@juno.com] [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Was Aimee Mann, Now Vanity Presses [jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] some drummer dude On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 00:18:24 -0400 jenny grover writes: > Hey, all! The new issue of Tone and Groove is up > (www.toneandgroove.com) and you may want to check it out, since > some drummer dude named Gil is interviewed. Included are some photos > his neighbor took. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And many of us will be excited to see that Gil actually does have eyes. It really is a shame that that sadistic bastard Scott Miller insisted on having all band photos taken outdoors in the brightest sun possible. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:51:54 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] some drummer dude |-----Original Message----- |From: jenny grover [mailto:sleeveless@citynet.net] |Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:18 AM |To: loud-fans |Subject: [loud-fans] some drummer dude | | |Hey, all! The new issue of Tone and Groove is up |(www.toneandgroove.com) and you may want to check it out, |since some drummer dude named Gil is interviewed. Included |are some photos his neighbor took. | |Jen Thanks for conducting and posting Jen! And thanks for talking Gil! As many of us are approaching middle age or are in (sigh) middle age as the case may be, it got me to thinking about my favorite music decades, esp by Gil's comment on the 60's. Looking through my lps and CDs the stuff that by far has held my attention the strongest and has had the most influence on me as a music consumer were the 60's and 80's. I remember thinking in the 70's that music was never going to get any better than that 60's stuff in my collection and then the 80's came along and threw that theory out the window. To this day much of my favorite music came from that extremely fruitful period. There was that stretch from '82 to '87 when so much was happening, Game Theory, Let's Active, dB's and the whole Paisley Underground scene and it all revolved around college radio and to a large extent small indie labels. It's been discussed before that music runs in 20 year cycles. Certainly comparisons could be made between the mid 60's and mid 80's and I'm hoping that as we venture into 2000's that we're in for another dose and I think that there is evidence that this could be happening again. There is so much out there to listen to again as is evidenced by my increased music buying budget and a lot of it again is on small labels. And though college radio probably doesn't have the influence it once had the internet does. I have hope that the next 5 years is gonna be a fun ride. - -Larry still in NC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:04:50 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] The 80's are back I just picked up the new Gerty album called "sweets from the minibar". It wears it's 80's influences on it's sleeve with a lot of that synth sound from UK bands of that period. Early B-52's also come to mind. As the band says on the label's website www.eskimokiss.com they claim to be bridging the New Wave sound of the 80's with the New Electronica of today. The album was produced by the band with Chris Stamey and Mitch does a really swell guitar solo on a song called "Magnastar" which you can download from www.gerty.org .They do a wonderful cover of Julian Cope's "Head Hang Low". - -Larry ATTENTION Mark! This album was made for you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:25:22 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Larry Tucker wrote: > bridging the New Wave sound of the 80's with the New Electronica of > today. If you're looking for that sort of stuff (i.e. bands making new wave records with current technology) there's a whole load of bands doing that sort of thing these days -- Solvent, Vitesse, Adult., etc. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Dave Walker wrote: > If you're looking for that sort of stuff (i.e. bands making new wave > records with current technology) there's a whole load of bands doing > that sort of thing these days -- Solvent, Vitesse, Adult., etc. Adult. may be my favorite of them. The Ministry Of Sound put out a compilation called This Is Tech-Pop that covers the poppier hits of the style, and then there's that Disco Nouveau comp that someone mentioned a few days ago. Wait, that was you, wasn't it! So maybe you'll know -- if I really liked "Make Me", should I hunt down a DMX Krew album? a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:37:49 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back In a message dated 10/1/02 10:05:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ltucker@townofchapelhill.org writes: > ATTENTION Mark! This album was made for you. > Thanks Larry! I hope to get it and that new Neilson Hubbard album (thanks Jeffrey) when I get paid. This list helps keep me aware of the good stuff to go buy. I love stuff like Gerty! And if Mitch is involved, well, that seals the deal. Over the past 7 years or so, there has been some New Wavy stuff I've dug, like Romania and the Pulsars and My Favorite. A band called Morella's Forest does an interesting cover of "Kids in America," but nothing tops the original. New York to South Carolina, there's a New Wave returning I warn you, - -Mark S. np: General Public _Rub It Better_ (more mature '90s output from America's favorite "fag band") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:50:39 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 01:16 PM, Aaron Mandel wrote: > So maybe you'll know -- if I really liked "Make Me", should I hunt down > a DMX Krew album? I can't say I've been following the DMX Krew in their latest incarnation. Earlier in their careers they were doing a (bit too obvious for my tastes) pastiche of early hiphop/electro (think Jonzun Crew, Newcleus, etc.) on Rephlex and their own label Breakin' Records (contrast with the stuff that folks like Drexciya, Ectomorph, Hab, and Bochum Welt were putting out at about the same time and the DMX Krew stuff sounded really jokey and clichid in comparison). I kind of mentally filed them away after that point. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:02:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Gabriel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The 80's are back - --- Larry Tucker wrote: > I just picked up the new Gerty album called "sweets > from the minibar". > It wears it's 80's influences on it's sleeve with a > lot of that synth > sound from UK bands of that period. Other bands playing "Newer Wave" include Fine China, Barcelona, Interpol and Slovak Girl (an incredible unsigned band I happened across on mp3.com). ===== 777777777777777777777777777777 JON GABRIEL mesa, arizona usa inkling communication + design 777777777777777777777777777777 New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:14:01 GMT From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] soft boys -- advance notice (ns) The Soft Boys will be doing a live-in-the-studio thing on WFMU on October 29th from 3pm to 6pm. The audio stream is available at wfmu.org. Get your minidisc recorders ready!! Even more interesting than the above, Ghost will be appearing at WFMU one week earlier on October 22nd from 3pm to 6pm. BTW, in the past, bands who were scheduled to appear on WFMU have bailed at the last minute, so don't believe it till you hear it. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:20:17 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/01/aimee.mann/index.html "If there's a drawback to having a new record out on your own record label, it's doing the publicity." If there's a drawback to having a new record out on your own record label and NOT being Aimee Mann, it's that CNN doesn't call to get your comments on the difficulty of getting publicity. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:50:20 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) At 02:20 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote: >http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/01/aimee.mann/index.html > >"If there's a drawback to having a new record out on your own record label, >it's doing the publicity." > >If there's a drawback to having a new record out on your own record label and >NOT being Aimee Mann, it's that CNN doesn't call to get your comments on the >difficulty of getting publicity. Just to clarify, that's not a quote from Aimee herself, but from the writer, who goes on to point out that the real problem is that her label doesn't have the bucks for current day radio's institutionalized payola system. Which is a fair point, I think. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:52:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] The logical limit The Onion strikes again: http://www.theonion.com/onion3836/riaa_sues_radio_stations.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > If there's a drawback to having a new record out on your own record label and > NOT being Aimee Mann, it's that CNN doesn't call to get your comments on the > difficulty of getting publicity. I may have mentioned this on list already, but the Delgados left Chemikal Underground for their upcoming album, which is interesting because Chemikal is owned and operated by the folks comprising The Delgados. They left their own label because they felt it was much harder to get critics and other media folks to take them seriously, considering it a form of vanity press. (Can anyone name a vanity press book that wasn't published by friend or relative?) To the point of everyone being sick of down-on-her-luck Aimee Mann stories, I agree that it's annoying in a lot of ways, but at the same time, the annoying stories have been drawing attention to many of the things I dislike about major labels, which isn't a bad thing IMO. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:10:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Michael Mitton wrote: > To the point of everyone being sick of down-on-her-luck Aimee Mann > stories, I agree that it's annoying in a lot of ways, but at the same > time, the annoying stories have been drawing attention to many of the > things I dislike about major labels, which isn't a bad thing IMO. Besides, even if Mann were Li'l Ms. Cheery-Face (which she certainly isn't), the media have a Hook with the story of Her Adventures in Major-Label Hell, Her Albums' Years in Limbo, and Her Virtuous Rise via Deus Ex Magnolia. They're not going to let that die, even if she did. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:03:01 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) At 03:46 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, Michael Mitton wrote: >I may have mentioned this on list already, but the Delgados left Chemikal >Underground for their upcoming album, which is interesting because >Chemikal is owned and operated by the folks comprising The Delgados. They >left their own label because they felt it was much harder to get critics >and other media folks to take them seriously, considering it a form of >vanity press. (Can anyone name a vanity press book that wasn't published >by friend or relative?) What was that book that was originally published by a vanity press that ended up being one of the big publishing success stories of the '90s? THE CELESTINE PROPHECY or something like that? And of course, there's the Hogarth Press... S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:08:46 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:03:01 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >What was that book that was originally published by a vanity press that >ended up being one of the big publishing success stories of the '90s? THE >CELESTINE PROPHECY or something like that? Yea, but to be fair to publishing execs, it read just like you would expect a vanity press novel to read. I had a hard time taking its message too seriously because it was written so poorly. Of course, after talking with a couple new age freaks while I was traveling in Peru I probably would have had trouble taking it very seriously anyway. Maybe if I read it while I had a crystal shoved up my nose? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:18:18 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) At 05:03 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >And of course, there's the Hogarth Press... Don't forget Regnery... MB np: Hoven Droven, "Herr Hillebran" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:13:19 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Was Aimee Mann, Now Vanity Presses At 03:46 PM 10/1/2002 -0400, Michael Mitton wrote: >I may have mentioned this on list already, but the Delgados left Chemikal >Underground for their upcoming album, which is interesting because >Chemikal is owned and operated by the folks comprising The Delgados. They >left their own label because they felt it was much harder to get critics >and other media folks to take them seriously, considering it a form of >vanity press. (Can anyone name a vanity press book that wasn't published >by friend or relative?) Then Stewart said: What was that book that was originally published by a vanity press that ended up being one of the big publishing success stories of the '90s? THE CELESTINE PROPHECY or something like that? And of course, there's the Hogarth Press... My book for one, Great Big Something, on IUniverse.com. Print On Demand, which is what IUniverse is, is a gray area here, you do pay to get published, but sell enough, or get lucky, and you will be taken seriously by the industry. I got lucky, I just became a client to one of the best gay/lesbian publicist's in that part of the publishing world. I'll be working with the gay/lesbian publishing world almost exclusively but you never know where I'll pop up. it wasn't THE CELESTINE PROPHECY that made it big in the 90s, that book was published about 20 years ago, I think you're thinking of The Christmas Box, which was self published and made a mint. And one IUniverse unsung success story. The Idiot Girls Action Adventure Club, written by former Arizona Republic humor columnist Laurie Notaro, started out as an IUniverse book, and according to an interview with her on the IU site, she sold enought to get a 6 figure, two book deal from Villard Books, a major press, and spent 7 weeks on the NY Times paperback best seller list. Which is all true, because seeing the book on that list made me check her out. It's a very funny book, and very good. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:06:02 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) >(Can anyone name a vanity press book that wasn't published >by friend or relative?) More than you probably think: http://www.clearlakemedia.net/selfpub-resource/famous-self-publishers1.html Big names at the bottom. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:48:18 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pardon me while I fart > I see that the new P.T. Anderson movie stars Adam Sandler. > This could be the biggest monument to worthlessness dumped onto the >public since Perry Farrell became a techno DJ. Wonder what become of P.T.'s planned Lennon biopic...(starring Adam Sandler?) >The only Loudfan that thought both "Boogie Nights" AND "Magnolia" sucked, I didn't think they sucked, but I think his reach still exceeds his grasp by a good four leagues. Next you'll tell me Madonna's in the new Peter Greenaway, Andy Sept. 23, 2002 | 1) Press release, D.Baron media relations (Sept. 12) "Los Angeles, CA -- Celebrated recording artist composer Warren Zevon, one of rock music's wittiest and most original songwriters, has been diagnosed with lung cancer which has advanced to an untreatable stage." Playing: "Mohammed's Radio," the churchy live version from the 1982 "Stand in the Fire" ("Even Jimmy Carter's got the highway blues"); the delirious rising in the 1978 "Johnny Strikes Up the Band"; the regret in the melody of "Looking for the Next Best Thing" in 1982; the shared dread of "Run Straight Down" in 1989; the delicacy of "Suzie Lightning" in 1991 and "Mutineer" in 1995. From 1976, when he went public with "Desperadoes Under the Eaves" on the album "Warren Zevon," it has been more than a quarter century of gunplay and bravado, not for a moment concealing Zevon's loathing for his own betrayals and those of the world around him. "I was in the house when the house burned down," he sang in 2000. From afar he has been a good friend. [--Greil Marcus, from http://www.salon.com/ent/col/marc/2002/09/23/77/index.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > More than you probably think: > > http://www.clearlakemedia.net/selfpub-resource/famous-self-publishers1.html The vast majority of these are self-help books. Interesting. But isn't vanity publishing different from self-publishing? I can see why the Delgados would want the validation of being picked up by a label they didn't run themselves, but look at Superchunk, Tsunami, Fugazi, Beat Happening... I've never heard someone refuse to take one of them seriously just because they released their own records. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:18:00 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) > But isn't vanity publishing different from self-publishing? Yah, that's what I was going to say, too. Vanity publishing is paying to have somebody put an insignia on your work that seems to imply independent approval and oversight but actually does not. IUniverse, as a weird sort of middleman service for cheap printing and binding, seems more like a specialized Kinko's than a publisher of either sort, to me, like the book equivalent of somebody who'll take your music and make labeled CDRs of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:27:42 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) In a message dated 10/1/02 10:18:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, glenn@furia.com writes: > Yah, that's what I was going to say, too. Vanity publishing is paying to > have somebody put an insignia on your work that seems to imply > independent approval and oversight but actually does not. IUniverse, as > a weird sort of middleman service for cheap printing and binding, seems > more like a specialized Kinko's than a publisher of either sort, to me, > like the book equivalent of somebody who'll take your music and make > labeled CDRs of it. > That is true to a certain extant with Iuniverse, but the books are very well made, they let you choose the cover design, which usually isn't the case with most publishers. And they have great distribution, my book is in every major web boostore, and in the case of Amazon, their UK and Canadian bookstores. Ingram is the distributor the biggest and best in the US. You would never be able to do this on your own unless you have a lot of money, and IU is not all that expensive. And they throw in an ISBN number, anyone can order it. I sound like an ad. Sorry. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:59:41 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 AWeiss4338@aol.com wrote: > That is true to a certain extant with Iuniverse, but the books are very well > made, they let you choose the cover design, which usually isn't the case with > most publishers. And they have great distribution, my book is in every major > web boostore, and in the case of Amazon, their UK and Canadian bookstores. > Ingram is the distributor the biggest and best in the US. You would never be > able to do this on your own unless you have a lot of money, and IU is not all > that expensive. And they throw in an ISBN number, anyone can order it. > I sound like an ad. Sorry. > Andrea in the music world, oasis offers a similar deal, with integrated production & web distro. on chemical records and the delgados: i recently watched a kind of silly but good-hearted little movie called "diy or die" which had an interview with fugazi/dischord's ian mackaye, in which ian said something i hadn't quite heard him phrase the same way: when asked when dischord became "successful" he said it was a meaningless question because according to the terms they defined success by, they were ALWAYS successful. the economics of dischord make great sense for the individuals in the organization: they make enough money on fugazi's records that they don't really care if the other releases break even or not; there's enough left over to run adult swim, peterbilt etc. but one of the tricks of those economics is the scale they work at. despite the fact that fugazi has been courted repeatedly by major labels (and whatever else, they are one of the best live rock acts, period -- that's as close to an objective statement as you can get with superlatives like "best") -- but fugazi's sales are not currently at a level that would be successful from a major label perspective -- certainly not if the label tried to impose a standard major label production budget. if the delgados want to sell somewhere in the 10K-100K range, i wouldn't think chemikal would honestly be that much of an impediment, although they may not have the muscle to swing very favorable bricks&mortar distro terms. if they're ambitious beyond that, well, maybe they do need a bigger promotion engine. (and maybe they have rocks in their heads. on the other hand, i could believe that they could have broader appeal than the indie niche.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:15:40 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was Aimee Mann, Now Vanity Presses AWeiss4338@aol.com wrote: > > And one IUniverse unsung success > story. The Idiot Girls Action Adventure Club, written by former Arizona > Republic humor columnist Laurie Notaro, started out as an IUniverse book, > and according to an interview with her on the IU site, she sold enought to > get a 6 figure, two book deal from Villard Books, a major press, and spent 7 > weeks on the NY Times paperback best seller list. Which is all true, because > seeing the book on that list made me check her out. It's a very funny book, > and very good. And I'll add here that Andrea has a review of this book up now on Tone and Groove. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:46:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pardon me while I fart On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > "Los Angeles, CA -- Celebrated recording artist composer Warren Zevon, one > of rock music's wittiest and most original songwriters, has been diagnosed > with lung cancer which has advanced to an untreatable stage." Playing: > "Mohammed's Radio," the churchy live version from the 1982 "Stand in the > Fire" ("Even Jimmy Carter's got the highway blues"); the delirious rising in > the 1978 "Johnny Strikes Up the Band"; the regret in the melody of "Looking > for the Next Best Thing" in 1982; the shared dread of "Run Straight Down" in > 1989; the delicacy of "Suzie Lightning" in 1991 and "Mutineer" in 1995. From > 1976, when he went public with "Desperadoes Under the Eaves" on the album > "Warren Zevon," it has been more than a quarter century of gunplay and > bravado, not for a moment concealing Zevon's loathing for his own betrayals > and those of the world around him. "I was in the house when the house burned > down," he sang in 2000. From afar he has been a good friend. > > [--Greil Marcus, from > http://www.salon.com/ent/col/marc/2002/09/23/77/index.html ] What, Marcus is too avant-garde to write actual sentences anymore? Yeesh...I wish *I* could get to the position where I get paid the big bucks for someone to transcribe, unedited, the notes I scrawl on little yellow pads. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:48:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > What was that book that was originally published by a vanity press that > ended up being one of the big publishing success stories of the '90s? THE > CELESTINE PROPHECY or something like that? Which proves only that new-age folks have cat-barf for brains. I still think that a "vanity press" ought to be some sort of intimidating metal and wood device by which a vain person more or less literally "puts on a face." Or perhaps a vanity press yields refined vanity juice. Cold-pressed, extra-virgin. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:10:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > But isn't vanity publishing different from self-publishing? I can see why > the Delgados would want the validation of being picked up by a label they > didn't run themselves, but look at Superchunk, Tsunami, Fugazi, Beat > Happening... I've never heard someone refuse to take one of them seriously > just because they released their own records. I think you're right, and moreover, I've heard of plenty of people taking The Delgados seriously. So their reasoning in this respect didn't make much sense to me. Of course, they had a couple of other reasons which I didn't list in my original post because they seemed less interesting. One of these (and this also responds to Doug's comments) is that they do have pretty high ambitions for the next record, enough so that they thought it would be too draining finanically on Chemikal and could leave their other bands without the resources they needed. I guess this makes sense. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:39:47 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee Mann, underdog (part 534) >The vast majority of these are self-help books. Interesting. I like their inclusion of THE SELF-PUBLISHING MANUAL. They left off Montaigne and William Morris, though. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #345 *******************************