From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #338 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, September 26 2002 Volume 02 : Number 338 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma [JRT456@aol.com] [loud-fans] Canadian recommendations please! ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Ben] Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma [zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu] [loud-fans] Where they stand there admonished [Richard Gagnon ] [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) [Dana Paoli ] [loud-fans] Emmy, is that you? [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] Emmy, is that you? ["Miles Goosens"] Re: [loud-fans] Powerpuff Sopranos [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno [Boyof100lists@aol.com] [loud-fans] Re: Emmy/Powerpuff Sopranos [Stewart Mason > Yes, why would a show with such lame regular bits be interested in one of the classic comics who actually invented what Conan can only imitate? Or wasn't that exactly what Mark was complaining about? Come to think of it, I had to watch Conan O'Brien's show in June to see a comic who was dressed all in black with matching ugly glasses. (No visible tattoos, but if she was anything like her cousin...) Mark understands Conan O'Brien better than Stewart, and he doesn't even watch TV! Score one for the mommy's boy...even if his mom isn't sick! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:09:47 +0100 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: [loud-fans] Canadian recommendations please! Angela and I will be travelling across Canada in October and I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations of veggie restaurants, interesting record shops etc in Vancouver and Toronto. We'll also be visiting Kamloops, Banff and Jasper so if there's anything a Loud Fan should know about them that would be great too. Thanks! Ian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:59:45 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma At Wednesday 9/25/2002 08:02 AM -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >Yes, why would a show with such lame regular bits be interested in one of the >classic comics who actually invented what Conan can only imitate? Or wasn't >that exactly what Mark was complaining about? Come to think of it, I had to >watch Conan O'Brien's show in June to see a comic who was dressed all in >black with matching ugly glasses. (No visible tattoos, but if she was >anything like her cousin...) Mark understands Conan O'Brien better than >Stewart, and he doesn't even watch TV! Thanks for the info, JRT and Stewart! Now I understand. I haven't seen an episode of Late Show since the Andy days, and even then it was just bits and pieces here and there. So I was wondering what Mark was talking about. I'm still unclear about exactly who these black-rags-and-glasses-wearing tattooed posers are, but I'll take his word for it. Looks like tonight's Conan show has Jackie Chan, Marlo Thomas and Ricky Jay (combined age ~167). Those are people I definitely don't want to see in tattoos! Although I do have this weird fantasy of Marlo Thomas in black rags from the old That Girl days. God, I hope she doesn't talk about her daddy Danny and his early work in TV comedy (or her own for that matter), because that would be talk about old people and that sucks. I want to hear about things that are important to the young people of today, like everyone else in America. So I'll be watching Jay Leno tonight - he has Darrell Hammond, Brittany Snow and Beck. Or maybe Letterman, who will be featuring Reese Witherspoon, Juan Montoya and India.Arie. Free To Be You And Me, Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:39:22 -0500 From: zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma Quoting JRT456@aol.com: > In a message dated 9/24/02 9:46:50 PM, flamingo@theworld.com writes of > poor, > ignorant Mark: > > << Clearly, he's referring to The Barbarian, not The Talk Show Host. > Certainly > anyone who had ever seen The Masturbating Bear, Robot On The Toilet, > Cameltoe Annie or The Guy Who Can Ruin Any Moment (No Matter How Special) > By Saying One Single Word would have a better understanding of the sort of > thing that goes on on that show. But remember, Mark Doesn't Watch TV. >> > > Yes, why would a show with such lame regular bits be interested in one of the classic comics who actually invented what Conan can only imitate? Or wasn't > that exactly what Mark was complaining about? Come to think of it, I had > to watch Conan O'Brien's show in June to see a comic who was dressed all in black with matching ugly glasses. (No visible tattoos, but if she was > anything like her cousin...) Mark understands Conan O'Brien better than Stewart I thought Stewart was responding to the fact that Conan often has such awful, C & D level stars in the middle of the week, that it is doubtful that he would turn away anyone. I'll bet Conan would let Coolio talk on the show, and that guy is floating around in celebrity hell right now. Masturbating Bear, Pimpbot 9000, Triumph the comic dog, and the "In the Future" skits were all really funny though. Conan has to have good skits to make up for bad guests. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:28:36 -0400 From: Richard Gagnon Subject: [loud-fans] Where they stand there admonished >Stewart writes: > >and Elvis Preley got cut in on the >publishing of many of the songs that were pitched to him. Many? Just counting the ones he had *nothing* to do with, it adds up to maybe two (he reportedly contributed *something* to "Love me tender" (a hunk o' lyrics to a traditional melody), and minor efforts such as "That's someone you never forget" and "You'll be gone"). Unless, of course, you're talking about the criminal business practices of Colonel Parker, which fairly quickly led to a dearth of decent material. Songwriters practically had to pay to be recorded by Elvis, out of their royalties. Parker's songwriter extortion methods live on today, of course, in Celine Dion's scumbag husband/manager, Rene Angelil. His (abuse of) power over the Press in Quebec is legendary. Songwriter Paul Evans ("I gotta know") explains: "The Colonel had struck a deal making Hill and Range Elvis' exclusive publisher. Up until Elvis reached out of this firm for "Suspicious Minds" and "In the Ghetto", if you wanted Elvis, you went to Hill and Range. Writers who showed songs for Elvis knew the drill. If the powers-that-be chose your song, one third of the writing credits went to Elvis Presley. For the most part, I ducked that give-back by either not returning phone calls or breaking appointments at Hill and Range. I was finally cornered by their attorney who shoved a paper in front of my nose. It was a blanket agreement, assigning one third of your share of songs cut by Elvis to Elvis and was signed by a shocking group of successful New York writers. "Kid," he glared,"you can't duck this anymore. Sign it or else forget about any more Presley recordings." I think he means royalties, though, instead of "credit". There are very few Elvis songwriting *credits*, and most of these he earned. Aside from that, yeah, what Stewart said. Rick, pedantically. - -- ************************ "I began to feel uncomfortable, ************************ as if I were walking over a canyon on a narrow railroad bridge hearing a train whistle far down the line" John Straley, "Death and the language of happiness" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:39:28 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudfan in a Coma In a message dated 9/25/02 7:42:33 AM, zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu writes: << I thought Stewart was responding to the fact that Conan often has such awful, C & D level stars in the middle of the week, that it is doubtful that he would turn away anyone. >> I worked at a talk show that competed with Conan for those C&D level stars, and I was very thankful for it. We'd book the same celebrities that David Letterman would only use the night before for a quick walk-on (as Conan wanted with Soupy Sales). As a result, I got to spend two hours just hanging out and asking really personal questions to people like Dick Clark, Robert Conrad, and Russ Meyer. (Actually, Tim Matheson was sitting there with Russ, but we both just wanted Russ to do all the talking.) All those celebrities were also great guests, especially when compared to whatever rising star was trotted out on Letterman the night before. Of course, it helped that our host was far more talented and witty than Conan O'Brien. That said, people like Rich Little really did have to make way for the new wave of impressionists. As for me, I'll be talking to one of the stars of "Dawson's Creek" today. It's still the WB's most popular program with the 18-24 demographic, you know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] GBV We've talk about it, and here it is: http://club.univac.tripod.com/joe/center-gbvsonggen.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:13:30 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno I did some internet Nancy Drew moves, and the article I was recalling was in the August 26th Wall Street Journal. I think I did pretty well recalling what I did of the article, since I was reading it at work almost a month ago! here's a little: The few senior citizens allowed on late-night shows are often asked to make only silly cameo appearances. Mr. Sales says Mr. Leno's show asked him to come on just to throw a pie. Mr. Sales replied: "I don't mind throwing a pie, but then I want to sit down and talk. I have things to say." Not invited to the couch, he declined to appear. and: Mr. Kreskin, a mentalist on the road 300 nights a year, wishes talk shows still booked ventriloquists, or impressionists like Rich Little. Others argue that today's stars are too colorless to imitate. "Who would you do? Keanu Reeves?" asks Mr. Reilly, who says there is an impersonation "emergency" in our country today. I'm apolgize for pooping on Conan like Triumph. I knew I wasn't completely sure of which talk show host it was. Kudos for having Marlo Thomas on his show! It figures it was Leno. I've seen that show and I think it's bloody awful. I can't believe people watch him. Who decided he is funny? He's so beige. Conan still needs Andy back though, but I guess there are only so many staring contests you can do, and the "In the year 2000" bit phased itself out, so...(this show at one point was the ONLY program I was watching) As Conan has aged, he looks less like the little boy from the '60s "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" tv special. He's back from the Island of Misfit Toys. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:48:35 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno At 01:13 PM 9/25/2002 -0400, Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: >I did some internet Nancy Drew moves, and the article I was recalling was in >the August 26th Wall Street Journal. I think I did pretty well recalling >what I did of the article, since I was reading it at work almost a month ago! > > >here's a little: >The few senior citizens allowed on late-night shows are often asked to make >only silly cameo appearances. Mr. Sales says Mr. Leno's show asked him to >come on just to throw a pie. Mr. Sales replied: "I don't mind throwing a pie, >but then I want to sit down and talk. I have things to say." Not invited to >the couch, he declined to appear. I didn't think it sounded like Conan to diss Soupy. Glad to see that it wasn't. >show! It figures it was Leno. I've seen that show and I think it's bloody >awful. I can't believe people watch him. Who decided he is funny? He's so >beige. If you stop the world in 1986 or even 1991, Leno was one of the funniest standup comics going. At one point, he was even the most frequent Letterman guest. He was a very effective fill-in for Carson, he seemed more likely to hold onto THE TONIGHT SHOW's audience than the more quirky and alienating Dave, and I might have made the same decision (hopefully without the Dave-alienating prelude and politicking) if I had been the NBC suit who selected Carson's replacement. But I would have never predicted that he'd instantly transform himself into a conservative, borderline racist, desperately unfunny third-rate Letterman ripoff. Apparently Leno still does guest appearances at L.A. comedy clubs on the weekends, and reliable sources say that he's actually funny then. I'd blame THE TONIGHT SHOW's writers, but ultimately it's Jay who approves the jokes and calls the shots, so the buck stops with him. Speaking of writing, how the &*%! did SNL win a writing Emmy? I'm not sure they've had an episode's worth of funny writing in the last eleven seasons put together. Even when they stumble upon a decent premise, the writing sucks all the funny right out of it. What's next, a lifetime achievement Emmy for the thespian excusrions of Lou Ferrigno? >Conan still needs Andy back though, I'll disagree with that, but then again, I liked Mike just as well as Joel, and Kirstie Alley just as well as Shelly Long, so I have a pretty long history of enjoying shows as they evolve. DESIGNING WOMEN wasn't even close to good without Delta Burke, though. >but I guess there are only so many >staring contests you can do, and the "In the year 2000" bit phased itself >out, so... Actually, they're still doing "In the Year 2000." It's better than ever. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:00:40 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno In a message dated 9/25/02 11:50:20 AM, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: << I didn't think it sounded like Conan to diss Soupy. Glad to see that it wasn't. >> I doubt you've seen Soupy as a guest on Conan, though. Mr. Sales is still a good example for the "has-been" market dismissed across the board. We might as well acknowledge the early "Rosie O'Donnell Show" for being the only major talker that was really fearless about booking older entertainers whose agents were long tossed out of most booker's Rolodexes. It was great to see Phyllis Diller back on a couch. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:15:18 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno At 03:00 PM 9/25/2002 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 9/25/02 11:50:20 AM, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: > ><< I didn't think it sounded like Conan to diss Soupy. Glad to see that it >wasn't. >> > >I doubt you've seen Soupy as a guest on Conan, though. Nope, haven't. >Mr. Sales is still a >good example for the "has-been" market dismissed across the board. We might >as well acknowledge the early "Rosie O'Donnell Show" for being the only major >talker that was really fearless about booking older entertainers whose agents >were long tossed out of most booker's Rolodexes. It was great to see Phyllis >Diller back on a couch. As much as I hate to acknowledge Rosie for anything (the "Rosie O'Doll" has become the primary "white elephant" Christmas gift passed back and forth between me and my sibs), gotta agree with JRT here. And with the support for Charles Nelson Reilly shown earlier. If I had me a show, I'd book CNR and have my band play the Dead Milkmen's "Serrated Edge" when he's introduced. Sometimes, the "has-been" market can bite you, though. I'll never forget when NIGHT AFTER NIGHT WITH ALLAN HAVEY booked Steve Allen. Havey spent the whole week before Stevereeno's appearance gushing about how honored he was to have him on the show, being sure to mention how much Steve Allen had to do with shaping late night comedy, acknowledging every debt he and others owed to Steve's TONIGHT SHOW. When Steve actually appeared on the show, from the moment he sat down, he savaged everything about Havey's show, criticizing its format, its set, its host, and everything else Steve could think of. I kept thinking that it might be some sort of "bit" where Steve Allen was supposed to do this, but it sure didn't look or feel like it. It's one of the most painful episodes of late night TV that I've ever seen. cue Steve-O-Meter, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:43:36 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] 'What if I end up miserable and alone?' 'Then you'll get cats.' Or something like that. I'm surprised by how much I'd missed _Gilmore Girls_, or possibly this (the season premiere, last night) was just a better-than-average episode. I laughed aloud several times. And it might be a testament to Alexis Bedel's performance or presence or something that when I see her in the trailers for _Tuck Everlasting_ I can't keep myself from thinking that it's Rory in a school play or something from a future episode. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:26:10 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] OT - personal plug thanks, lorrie! i got the biggest compliment yesterday - a friend of mine said my paintings reminded him of jasper johns. can't beat that! (i don't see hte similarity, but maybe it's an association thing.) - -- It's well known that if you take a lot of random noise, you can find chance patterns in it, and the Net makes it easier to collect random noise. Dr. James M. Robins, Professor of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at Harvard - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorrie smith" To: "me" Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] OT - personal plug > today! best of luck and hope the exhibit is well-received! > lorrie > > me wrote: > > > > The reception is Wednesday, September 25th from 6-8pm. > > > > There will be food, drinks, videos, music, contests, and 'other surprises' > > (whatever that means). The exhibit runs from then through October 15th. > > > > Everyone one come watch me be a nervous wreck! > > > > brianna > > > > > > > > -- > > It's well known that if you take a lot of random noise, you can find chance > > patterns in it, and the Net makes it easier to collect random noise. > > Dr. James M. Robins, Professor of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at Harvard > > -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:53:23 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) I'm listening to it now, so it works. If anyone's interested, the new Beck album can be streamed for free at nme.com. I can't remember the exact link, but poke around and you'll find it. Wow, it sounds very classic rock. At times it's almost reminding me of Ween's "White Pepper" but without the Ween-ness. Then again, I wasn't paying close attention. Wow, now it suddenly sounds like Mercury Rev (the ending of Sunday Sun). Hmmm. Maybe I should pay more attention. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:04:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] Emmy, is that you? > Speaking of writing, how the &*%! did SNL win a > writing Emmy? I'm not sure > they've had an episode's worth of funny writing in > the last eleven seasons > put together. Even when they stumble upon a decent > premise, the writing > sucks all the funny right out of it. What's next, a > lifetime achievement > Emmy for the thespian excusrions of Lou Ferrigno? I was a little surprised by that Emmy as well... the only funny bits of SNL in the last year has been the Weekend Update segments...and those were hit and miss. I wonder if SNL won the writing Emmy last year. Their take on the Presidential election was some of the funniest material they have come up with since the second heyday in the early 1990s. Now how the hell did Ray Romano win Best Actor in a Comedy?? He's playing himself, basically! Better yet, why does _Everybody [hates] Raymond_ win so many damn awards?? IMO, it's the most overrated show on television. An overhyped, standard-issue dysfunctional family sitcom. The mind boggles... Now I wonder if the writers of _Friends_ are going to make Ross, Chandler, Joey, and Monica pregnant, just so they can get their Emmys too. (It worked for Phoebe and now Rachel.) Phil F. NP... Reverse _The Jersey Switch_ New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:11:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) Give me Beck with a tune like "Stroker Ace" or "The Grobe" and I'm sold!! But upon listening to most of it (at a record store nonetheless), no sale for me. Everyone's out to get you motherfucker, Phil F. NP... still Reverse _The Jersey Switch_ - --- Dana Paoli wrote: > I'm listening to it now, so it works. If anyone's > interested, the new > Beck album can be streamed for free at nme.com. I > can't remember the > exact link, but poke around and you'll find it. > > Wow, it sounds very classic rock. At times it's > almost reminding me of > Ween's "White Pepper" but without the Ween-ness. > Then again, I wasn't > paying close attention. Wow, now it suddenly sounds > like Mercury Rev > (the ending of Sunday Sun). Hmmm. Maybe I should > pay more attention. > > --dana > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:46:13 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Phil Fleming writes: > Give me Beck with a tune like "Stroker Ace" or "The > Grobe" and I'm sold!! But upon listening to most of it > (at a record store nonetheless), no sale for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I should probably clarify: in the draft version of my post, I mentioned that it's Weenlike, but not as good as Ween. I then took that out, because it's not really fair to judge an album that you're streaming for the first time while paying more attention to how stupid the new New York Press is. You know, there's an ad in the new Village Voice run by American Sprit saying that they'll send you a free sample *carton* just for calling in. I just did that, and had to answer about 5 questions. It then says that they need the request in writing and that they'll mail out a thing for me to send back to them. Does this actually work?? I'm figuring that I can sell the packs down at the local elementary school for about $5 each. How many packs are in a carton anyway? Have I finally discovered the secret to riches?? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:04:52 -0400 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Powerpuff Sopranos > I wanted to see the big pop culture phenomenon stuff, so I saw Powerpuff > Girls, but it didn't hold my interest. The style of the cartoon was > good, > though. Spongebob Squarepants was, well, it had a couple of moments, but the same deal (I flipped between commercial breaks). Best to start with the right Powerpuff Girls episodes and don't !! see the substandard movie. I'd recommend the Meet The Beatall's episode (with Mojo being lured into conceptual crime by the monkey of his dreams...Moko Jono) on the DVD of the same name and or The Bare Facts on the Powerpuff Bluff DVD. Spongebob Squarepants, now that's a cartoon with stoner appeal. For great cartooning, watch the Cartoon Network's Adult Swin on Sunday night...The Brak Show, Sealab 2021 and Harvey Birdman Attorney At Law are all pretty great. Harvey Birdman seems to have free reign over Hanna Barberra characters and I've recently seen a Sopranos parody episode with The Flintstones in The Sopranos roles (complete with the Sopranos' opening song parodied to reference the Flintstones..."you got no fancy shoes" indeed!) and another episode with Yogi Bear and Boo Boo where Boo Boo's put on trial as the Unibooboo. Brak is a brilliant show (the best of the 3, I think, and a Space Ghost Coast To Coast spin off...the Mister Tickles episode is amazingly funny) and Sealab is downright twisted, it has the same characters as the 60's cartoon but is often filled with seedy drug references...the second episode I saw was full of Reqium For A Dream jokes. > No - but it does make you look like what everybody expects a mob boss to > look like from the movies, which I take it part of the point: that these > guys model their image and behavior to an extent on those movies' > depictions of Mafiosi. (Idiot warning: I don't have HBO and haven't > actually seen _The Sopranos_, so this is all based on hearsay and > seewrite.) Maybe Silvio (Steve Van Zandt's character) looks the movie mobster but Tony Soprano looks like half the jackasses in SUV's with golf clubs in the back seat who cut me off on the freeway everyday. Apologies to any jackasses in SUV's with golf clubs in the back seat on the list. - - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:11:50 -0400 From: "Miles Goosens" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Emmy, is that you? On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Phil Fleming wrote: > I wonder if SNL won the writing Emmy last year. > Their > take on the Presidential election was some of > the > funniest material they have come up with since > the > second heyday in the early 1990s. Don't remember, but I'd date the second heyday around 1987-1992 -- i.e., the Lovitz-Miller-Carvey-Hartman-Hooks-Dunn-Nealon-Jackson cast, with Mike Myers taking things even higher once he came on board. Still my favorite cast, really, and say that even though I have first-hand memories of the Sainted Original Cast. > Now how the hell did Ray Romano win Best Actor > in a > Comedy?? He's playing himself, basically! > Better yet, why does _Everybody [hates] > Raymond_ win > so many damn awards?? IMO, it's the most > overrated > show on television. An overhyped, > standard-issue > dysfunctional family sitcom. I have to enter a major, major dissent here: RAYMOND is *not* a standard-issue sitcom. It's disguised as one, but oh my God, I don't think there's ever been a show on TV that explores the Heart of (Familial) Darkness like this one. Here's what I said to my sister about it over a year ago: "It's the most subversive show on television. On the surface, it looks like another dull FULL HOUSE or HOME IMPROVEMENT: standup comedian turns sitcom star, has pretty-but-made-to-look-plain wife and cutesy TV kids, and the parents across the road double as the obligatory Wacky Neighbors. Instead, the show is actually about how the malevolence and soullessness of Ray's parents permeate every nuance of Ray and his family's lives, either through the direct action of the parents or the residual damage they've done to Ray and his brother's psyches. The cute kids are rarely seen, the parents are unredeemable, and the laughs -- though sugared with the guffaws of a studio audience and sitcommy beat-beat-punchline pacing -- are not just bittersweet, they're fists into the solar plexus. RAYMOND is a corrosive and unforgiving tragedy, masked in sitcom garb. No other TV show can match the pathos of this gem." Since I wrote that, the show's actually gotten even darker and meaner and more twisted, and I love it. I didn't mind Larry Wilmore getting the writing Emmy for his BERNIE MAC pilot, but RAYMOND's "The Angry Family" really should have taken home that statuette. As for Ray Romano's acting, I think he started out more or less playing himself, but he's actually developed as an actor during the course of the show, and he's quite good now, far better than Jerry Seinfeld or (though he wasn't a stand-up comedian playing someone who was more or less himself in either of his shows of note) Ted Danson ever became. As far as I'm concerned, FRIENDS' series Emmy should have gone to RAYMOND. I wouldn't have minded seeing FRIENDS win in 1998-1999 or 1999-2000, when the Monica-Chandler romance and some savvy writing for everyone but Ross gave the show a lot of new zest. 2000-2001 was a huge dropoff, and while 2001-2002 was an improvement over that sorry season, it wasn't the amazing comeback that the press seemed to think it was. And if Schwimmer wasn't already making silly money, he ought to sue the writers over how they've castrated his character over the last several years (well, not literally, since his character fathered a child last season), sheesh. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:21:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] GBV On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > We've talk about it, and here it is: > > http://club.univac.tripod.com/joe/center-gbvsonggen.html Hmmm...needs some refining, although i couldn't begin on how to do it. Problem is, it tends to produce four nouns - and very few GBV titles are four nouns. Mebbe an article or two at the front, some prepositions...? The vocabulary is *reasonably* good (although it took me eight iterations to get to anything flight-related - shoulda come up way sooner) How about the Stephin Merritt "Moon" in Song Title Generator? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:30:36 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Powerpuff Sopranos At Wednesday 9/25/2002 07:04 PM -0400, Vallor wrote: >Harvey Birdman seems to have free reign over Hanna Barberra characters and >I've recently seen a Sopranos parody episode with The Flintstones in The >Sopranos roles (complete with the Sopranos' opening song parodied to >reference the Flintstones..."you got no fancy shoes" indeed!) I heard that as "you got no pants or shoes". I love Harvey Birdman. "Shaggy Gets Busted" was classic. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:58:30 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Okay I found it. It was Leno In a message dated 9/25/02 2:50:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: > DESIGNING WOMEN wasn't even > close to good without Delta Burke, though. Amen to that! That was probably the last sitcom show I watched regularly. I'd love to have all the best episodes on DVD. My favorite line from the show was when Suzanne defended her maid, Consuela: "I know she's tempermental and into voodoo, but she's a really good maid." Oh, big woo. - -Mark S. Pam (Shelley Duvall) "I'm a Rosicrucian myself." Alvie (Woody Allen) "Are you? I can't get with any religion that advertises in Popular Mechanics." (from "Annie Hall") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:01:40 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Emmy/Powerpuff Sopranos At 12:11 AM 9/26/2002 -0400, Miles Goosens wrote: >"It's the most subversive show on television. On the surface, it looks like >another dull FULL HOUSE or HOME IMPROVEMENT: standup comedian turns sitcom >star, has pretty-but-made-to-look-plain wife and cutesy TV kids, and the >parents across the road double as the obligatory Wacky Neighbors. Instead, >the show is actually about how the malevolence and soullessness of Ray's >parents permeate every nuance of Ray and his family's lives, either through >the direct action of the parents or the residual damage they've done to Ray >and his brother's psyches. The cute kids are rarely seen, the parents are >unredeemable, and the laughs -- though sugared with the guffaws of a studio >audience and sitcommy beat-beat-punchline pacing -- are not just bittersweet, >they're fists into the solar plexus. RAYMOND is a corrosive and unforgiving >tragedy, masked in sitcom garb. No other TV show can match the pathos of this >gem." Well, fine, but if I want that, I can read Chekov. (Who was surprisingly funny himself, by the way.) I do find myself idly watching the occasional RAYMOND thinking that maybe *this* will be the time I figure out what the fuss is about, but then I notice that I've had the TV on for ten minutes, I've already telegraphed half a dozen jokes, and I haven't laughed once. If I wanted to see a sitcom that wasn't actually funny, at least I used to be able to turn on DHARMA AND GREG and look at Jenna Elfman's ass for half an hour. Adult Swim has some wonderful stuff (except for THE OBLONGS, which is just crap), but my personal favorite has to be HOME MOVIES, which is both incredibly sweet-natured and surprisingly dark, a combo I've always been really fond of, and features some of the most naturalistic dialogue on television. It's apparently mostly improvised, and most of the time, the funniest lines are tossed-off, barely audible responses to what in other shows would be punchlines. It's a very quirky, meandering rhythm, and it's really endearing. And alongside the others in the 15-minutes-apiece block, there's also AQUA TEEN HUNGER FORCE. We both hated it at first, but it's one of those shows where either you just suddenly Get It and embrace the utter randomness or it just remains incredibly irritating. Charity, in fact, has lately been amusing herself by practicing her Meatwad voice, which is coming along quite nicely. Apparently, there are two ways of getting it: either do the Bongwater voice with a southern accent or start by doing Grover and then increase the pitch steadily. HARVEY BIRDMAN has to be the fave, though, if only for the secondary characters. Peanut's a personal favorite, but I do find myself quoting Dr. Reducto at the cats when they're insisting on taking turns sitting on my newspaper at the dining table in the morning: "I'll make you travel-sized!" Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:03:02 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it won't work for Jenny (ns) In a message dated 9/25/02 8:50:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: > I'm figuring that I can > sell the packs down at the local elementary school for about $5 each. > How many packs are in a carton anyway? Have I finally discovered the > secret to riches?? > > There are 10. Did you join record clubs under assumed names and sell your free CDs and disappear? Instant karma's gonna get you. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #338 *******************************