From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #327 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, September 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 327 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Moz on Kilborn/Josie Cotton [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] waving the white flag [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] waving the white flag [Janet Ingraham Dwyer ] Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions ["Andrew Hamlin" ] [loud-fans] Girl, Compressed [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] mother of boots [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] intercity mingling [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] I Am Trying to Break Your Heart ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] [loud-fans] in response to a response to a shameless plug [me@justanother] Re: [loud-fans] chat noir? [me@justanotherfuckin.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 03:08:13 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Moz on Kilborn/Josie Cotton In a message dated 9/14/02 5:27:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, flamingo@theworld.com writes: > Saying "I don't want to grow up, get a real job and pay > rent because I'd rather spend all my money on records and DVDs," *that* > sounds self-righteous Then I'm unashamedly SELF RIGHTEOUS. I wash the outside of the hipster art deco bowl while the inside remains filthy, like some perverse Pharisee. Throwing money away on rent is ridiculous and nonproductive at this juncture of my life. My Mom and I take care of each other. This house is paid for, and until I A) get married (there is that possibility. I DO like girls ya know. I haven't ruled it out) or B) finish my last few certification courses, I'm staying. I know I have a penis. I don't need to pay somebody rent (so THEY can have a good life) that I could use for my enjoyment to remind myself. And, when the time comes to move out again (when I am finally employed at the income level making enough money to support myself in the manner in which I am accustomed), then I will make sure I am no more than a tank of gas away so I can help my Mom in an emergency. We're all we've got. And I knew of JC's 1996 record, but not the new one, so thank you. And I'm sorry you don't like Belle and Sebastian. Or me. I don't owe the world or you any toe dances. I do things on my own terms, in my own time. My only rule is I try not to hurt anyone in the process. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:07:37 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] waving the white flag In a message dated 9/14/02 6:11:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: > but it is pretty childish and > unnecessarily bitter sounding the way you two bait and spit at each > other on this list I'll come out and say it, for God and all listers to see. It's no big news that I am an open person. I talk to strangers in grocery stores. That's how I am. Stewart, it has bothered me rather deeply the way it's been between us over the past couple of years. I've never had an enemy before in my whole life. Not really. You've said hurtful things to me and I've said hurtful things to you. I'd like to be your friend. I'm really not a bad person, I swear. I honestly don't think you are either. I wish I could undo all this damage between us! I don't even frigging know what you look like, Stewart! That's what makes all this seem so ridiculous to me. You are this being that exists as pixels on my computer screen, yet I find myself profoundly upset by your words to me. I am sorry for the other day, and for saying those hurtful, judging words in my anger. If I could take you out for some good Chinese and some conversation I would! My mother fights with her tongue, and I get that aspect of my being from her. I just wish you'd let go of the past with me. No, I don't owe the world or you any toe dances, but I care enough about you to try to at least wiggle a few of them. I still think that anyone who likes Scott's music has to be alright. I get judgmental when I'm angry. I'm sorry for judging you. Live long and prosper, Loud-fan. - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 09:12:21 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] waving the white flag At 04:07 AM 09/15/2002 EDT, Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: >sleeveless@citynet.net writes: > >> but it is pretty childish and >> unnecessarily bitter sounding the way you two bait and spit at each >> other on this list > >I'll come out and say it, for God and all listers to see... Well, God will see it regardless, but I think this is at - if not way past - - the point when some well-meaning, community-minded loudfan oughta put out the impotent plea to PLEASE take this stuff off-list, and it might as well be me. janet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 09:45:11 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] CD Explosion 2 First of all, this well-meaning, community-minded loudfan would like to urge everybody to remain on-list with the pathetic bickering and desperate attempts to ensure social superiority here at Second Chance High. And I'll provide my own pathetic credentials by saying that it's been another three weeks (more or less) and another 1,000 CD's (more or less...actually, a lot closer to 500 now). Anyway, I've thrown together another list of CD's that should appeal to folks here, which can now be bought at prices almost cheap enough to make you feel like you haven't wasted money once you've heard them. Once again, $5 for brand new titles straight from the warehouse and only played once, most likely in disgust. Actually, I've tried to be selective, although most of these band names will mainly be familiar from lukewarm reviews in Q Magazine. I'm also thrilled to announce that I've now actually found ten CD's amongst all this shopping that I personally think are worth hanging on to....but that's mainly because I fina lly discovered where they were hiding the Japanese mini-lp's. Anyway, contact me off-list for titles. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 09:16:55 -0500 From: steve Subject: [loud-fans] I can't resist Spirited Away clips and featurette, in English - http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1808405164&cf=trailer - - Steve __________ Does pop music really change anything other than the width of a teenager's trousers? Is there really no Santa Claus on the evening stage? Does the shed hold only a push bike, or is there a lawn mower in there too? Well, I've done the research, talked to the culprit's parents and come to my own conclusions. The answer is this: God's atoms have been scattered and re-assembled in the form of a fluffy bunny. - Bill Nelson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:12:34 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions >I'm largely clueless when it comes to science fiction, and I don't really >fall into the specific nerd cultures of which Doug speaks -- hanging out >with Charity's MIT buddies has convinced me that engineering nerds and >liberal arts nerds are two largely separate species I recall, from my youth, a t-shirt checklist listing "all possible" geek vectors. SF, role-playing games, SCA, computers, the theater, THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW, comic books, progressive rock, kung fu movies, most of the usual suspects. (Goths weren't on the map as such, back then; I think we called them "Batcavers." Anime was still hard to get for most people.) But I don't know that I ever knew anyone who could check off everything. A few people came close, maybe. In youthful geekdom I just blithely assumed that a geek was a geek was a geek, but now obviously I see how that ain't so. The two people I know of on this list who avoid SF on general principle, for example (I, for one, find that sad) or the one who only played D&D a few times and never liked it, or the one who doesn't much care for movies and rarely goes. Or, offlist, my friend who's outright proud of his website detailing every single highway in this state, but who begs off parties thrown by a mutual friend snarling, "It's just a buncha BIKE GEEKS over there!" Which leads me to the supposition--just a supposition, mind you--that in some cases, one is so involved with one's passions that one is either unaware of another's passions, or ends up actively hostile towards same. Stevenson two cents: Loved SNOW CRASH and don't think anyone's addressed how funny the book is--how can you not love a hero named Hiro Protagonist? Got lost in THE DIAMOND AGE, not in a good way, and felt glad the minotaur didn't emerge from around an ebook. ZODIAC I simply found tedious, and didn't finish. Took one look at CRYPTONOMICON and said "Ah...this is for...left-brained people, okay..." Maybe I'll take another look some day. THE BIG U absorbed me, up to the point where it had to go back the library. Right after the hilarious D&D sequence. I think Stevenson likes to detail macro-sized microcosms. SNOW CRASH and THE BIG U both demonstrate this. I'm reminded of John Varley's work. And so long as I'm on the subject, Carol Emshwiller's THE MOUNT is the finest SF novel I've read since THE SPARROW, and one of my favorite books of the year. Though you can't go wrong with Michael Marshall Smith's ONLY FORWARD or Richard Paul Russo's SHIP OF FOOLS, Andy Phil: You don't consider Blue Velvet a horror film? Is it because there's no creaking doors or lengthy hand-held shots from the killer's point of view? Surely it's as much of a horror film as The Shining or Psycho. Or maybe I just don't understand genre--the Action Channel has been playing Five Easy Pieces recently, one of my favourites but a little hard for me to get a handle on as an action film. Maybe they're thinking of the ping-pong game between Nicholson and the guy in the neck brace...Cuckoo's Nest did get votes: one critic and two directors, none of whom I recognize. It's a great film--I wouldn't put it right at the top of the '70s heap with The Godfathers and Nashville and Taxi Driver and a few others, but it's in the second tier. Milos Forman's own list is pretty interesting to the degree that almost half of it is made up of competitors from that time: he's got American Graffiti, The Deer Hunter, The Godfather, and Raging Bull. I've sensed from scanning the directors' lists that a lot of them shy away from contemporaries. Andrew: Okay, you could consider Blue Velvet horror because it does reach beyond the elements of a drama, or it could just be a psychological thriller with horror film elements (in the vein of Psycho perhaps). Or maybe I'm thinking in video store terms, in which you would probably find Blue Velvet in the drama section. Anyway, I disagree with lumping Cuckoo's Nest in the second tier. I think it's probably the best film of 1975, if not one of the best of the '70s. And while we're on the subject of Jack Nicholson, I was curious if you knew of his earlier roles in some of those Roger Corman classics? Phil: Basically my rule is, if it scares me, it's horror... - --from a conversation between Phil Dellio and Andrew LaPointe about the latest Sight & Sound Poll, at http://www.rockcritics.com/Dellio-Lapointe.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:16:02 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions At 11:12 AM -0700 9/15/02, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > >And so long as I'm on the subject, Carol Emshwiller's THE MOUNT is the >finest SF novel I've read since THE SPARROW, and one of my favorite books of >the year. > >Though you can't go wrong with Michael Marshall Smith's ONLY FORWARD or >Richard Paul Russo's SHIP OF FOOLS, I just finished a trawl through Gene Wolfe's SUN cycle, complete (THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN, for the third time, and I'm surprised at how much I missed the first two times 'round), and I'm still reeling. The guy's amazing. Matt A willing foe and sea room. Naval toast in the time of Nelson. Beckett, A Few Naval Customs, Expressions, Traditions, and Superstitions (1931) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:40:32 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: [loud-fans] mother of boots If anyone stumbles across this, please share. Mmmm, Steinski. http://www.counterpunch.org/marsh0911.html - -- Dave Walker freeform radio and live, nude fish at: http://www.freeke.org/ffg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:50:05 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Girl, Compressed I thought the list would like this. Inside the liner sleeve of the OH-OK complete recordings CD, there is a montage of press clippings, all readable if you eat your carrots. One clipping, I'm unsure of the magazine says: Their new EP, Furthermore What (DB Recs, 432 Moreland Avenue NE, Atlanta, GA 30307), adds ringing guitar to the group's lilting musical textures, with Drive-In studio producer Mitch Easter keeping the sound bright and poppy. "Mitch was real open to whatever we wanted," Hopper declares with characteristic ebuillience. "He'd use his 'girl compressor' and his 'boy compressor' for the voices--he'd say, "I've got you on high girl compressor!" We've had 4 inches of rain here since yesterday, yet the earth is so parched there isn't any mud, just street flooding. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:04:11 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] mother of boots Apparently this is available at Juno Records for GBP 11.99: On 9/15/02, Dave Walker wrote: >If anyone stumbles across this, please share. > >Mmmm, Steinski. > >http://www.counterpunch.org/marsh0911.html > >-- >Dave Walker freeform radio and live, nude fish at: >http://www.freeke.org/ffg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:28:17 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions Andrew Hamlin wrote: > > or the one who doesn't much care for movies and rarely goes. 'eh! You talkin' 'bout me? I actually do enjoy movies, I just don't like theatres. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:11:47 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] chat noir? Jer and I are hangin in IRC on Eskimo. Come join us. We need people with names more than three letters long that start Je. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:30:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] intercity mingling On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Matthew Weber wrote: > At 03:24 PM 9/13/02 -0400, dmw wrote: > >On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Amy Lewis wrote: > > > > > obvious answer aside: we prefer to be called "bostonettes." > > > >i thought it was cambridgians!? > > Cantabrigian? Bridges ian all the time - there's no stopping them. Oh, and Amy: what have you got going on with Congress that you're going to the Capitol? (Hey - *she's* the tech writer...) - --Jeff, returning from a long weekend camping with my mom and siblings' families. At one point, we were sitting around the fire drinking beer and arguing about...the Electoral College. Any Loudfan wandering through the woods would immediately have known just which Loudfan's family this was... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. ::I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! __"raus"__ np: (beginning of post) The Handsome Family _In the Air_ (end) Wire _Read & Burn 02_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:02:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Moz on Kilborn/Josie Cotton On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > In line with some of my previous, off-list comments to the Loud Family's > poor sweet blind drummer, could everyone here who is blind, deaf, missing > a limb, impotent, or dead, or whose parents are paralyzed or dead or > dying, or whose children were kidnapped by Afghani warlords, or whose > houses were crushed by large unexpected rocks... > > ...please post about it now so we're all forewarned, rather than dropping > it self-rightously the next time someone implies that the Gilmore Girls > is kind of a lame waste of time. Well dammit, I think this sort of post is incredibly discriminatory against people who, not now but in some potential future, *might* suffer from any of these debilities - or rather, any of these alternate modalities of being, because you know, one wouldn't want to discriminate. It's just not fair to favor people who've suffered in the *past* over people who will suffer in the *future*. I reserve the right to whine, complain, self-martyrize, guilt-trip, chasten, and otherwise lay negative whammy vibrations upon all list members based upon any future disabilities, foul-smelling toenails, mentil alternate being-modilities, insistence on the vaguely-existing "-il" suffix vs. "-al," non-fatal bus accidents, shark feeding incidents that turn out poorly, fucking Tourette's Syndrome you scumsucking douchebags, or inability to write short sentences that might at any point afflict, infect, thump, maul, booglarize ya baby, obscurely reference Captain Beefheart, or who the hell's still reading this anyway me at any future time. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, Founder, Anti-Chronologist League J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::You think your country needs you, but you know it never will:: __Elvis Costello__ np: Ray Charles _Ugly Gap-Toothed Bald Limey Blues_ "Lose the Hat, Dec" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:32:38 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: [loud-fans] I Am Trying to Break Your Heart I'm surprised there hasn't been a list discussion of the Wilco documentary, I AM TRYING TO BREAK YOUR HEART. Is it currently playing only in Seattle? I saw this just a few days after finally picking up YANKEE HOTEL FOXTROT--great timing, since the CD package and the movie share the same art director, and the movie covers the time between the initial recording sessions and the actual release of the album. The CD has captured me like none other I've listened to in several months, and it was fun to see the film while the album is still new and exciting. The two dramas in the movie are the saga of the record's delayed release, and the firing of Jay Bennett. Most of us on loud-fans probably know about YHF's being abandoned by Reprise and picked up nine months later by Nonesuch. Maybe only the hardcore Wilco fans know much about the firing. Bennett comes off badly in the movie. He's shown provoking an uncomfortable scene during the early mixing of the album, and after he's fired he hangs himself by making petty comments to the offscreen interviewer. My impression, which is that of someone who couldn't have told you who Jay Bennett was before seeing the movie, is that Bennett is an extremely talented guitarist and keyboard player whose needy personality pales in the shadow of Jeff Tweedy, who is, and has to be, the center of Wilco. And he resents it. I wonder if this is fair, and whether there are parallels in the breakup of Uncle Tupelo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] Garageband.con? Not sure why this bothers me so much, but what is it with this site these days? The whole premise behind it (band can win a $250,000 record deal) has pretty much diminished to nothing(virtually no reward system other than 'promotion' which pretty much any band with a wee bit of web-savvy can do). The memberships are still free (Thank GOD) but they're trying to sell you a subscription to their bi-monthly CD 'club' (for lack of a better term). When I signed up for it back in 2000, they sent me a CD just for joining. I would love to know what really happened behind that site (I'm not sure I believe the story the site gives) I wonder how many of it's old members still take part in it, considering there's no 'reward' for reviewing music anymore. For me, that was a motivating factor, but it became a non-issue when the pickins became fewer and fewer. (First, anything from HMV.com, then cdbaby.com, then their meager catalog [at the time, like 8 titles], now nothing except 'the experience of listening to new music'... Hell, when I was a DJ at Radioboston, I did that sort of thing, yet I didn't promise anyone the moon then take it away.) I'm not bitter (despite the appearance)... I'm just wondering what went wrong. Though I am lamenting the fact that I never got to redeem my free CD 'coupons'. I coulda had that Maggies disc! GRRR! Rant over (with enough parantheticals to choke any copywriter), Phil F. NP... was Reverse _the jersey switch_ now Orbit _XLR8R_ - --- richblath wrote: > np some pop/rock stuff on www.garageband.com for > review again. There's some > fine stuff on here, not just the Maggies as Max > mentioned before. Just heard > a track that would have fitted beautifully into > Meaningless if it had been > recorded slightly better. Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:39:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I Am Trying to Break Your Heart On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, John Cooper wrote: > I'm surprised there hasn't been a list discussion of the Wilco > documentary, I AM TRYING TO BREAK YOUR HEART. Is it currently playing > only in Seattle? Can anyone who's seen it tell me who the "comedian" is with whom Jeff discusses his house in the Hamptons? Very good movie, especially if you like watching a band make a record. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:43:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I Am Trying to Break Your Heart On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, John Cooper wrote: > > > I'm surprised there hasn't been a list discussion of the Wilco > > documentary, I AM TRYING TO BREAK YOUR HEART. Is it currently playing > > only in Seattle? > > Can anyone who's seen it tell me who the "comedian" is with whom Jeff > discusses his house in the Hamptons? Found it. It's El Vez. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:48:02 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] waving the white flag At Sunday 9/15/2002 04:07 AM -0400, Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: >I still think that anyone who likes Scott's music has to be alright. So you don't care that Jeff shot a man in Reno just to watch him die? Or that Stewart was responsible for the whole WorldComm debacle? Or that Jer Fairall shares a birthday with Kate Hudson (she's a year younger though)? Latre. --Rog (still trying to figure out what organs *I* have) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:18:13 -0700 (PDT) From: me@justanotherfuckin.com Subject: [loud-fans] in response to a response to a shameless plug i took the challenge, and the site is up. vaguely on topic notes: the site involves a Belle Da Gama title (by sheer coincidence), paintings done while there was some anton on the stereo, and two done entirely to PBRT (over and over and over and over and...) the LF ones are the bottom center and bottom right links. enjoy, and keep the infantile comments to a minimum. briannabradley.com i'm now off to do something distracting to try to forget the somewhat indelible disgustingness i just go in my in box - Bum Porn. b ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: me@justanotherfuckin.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] chat noir? gah. trying to connect, can't seem to figure this thing out. help? i'm sure it's too late for this week, but i'd liket o know for next... brianna On Sun, 15 September 2002, jenny grover wrote: > > Jer and I are hangin in IRC on Eskimo. Come join us. > We need people > with names more than three letters long that start Je. > > Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #327 *******************************