From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #323 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, September 12 2002 Volume 02 : Number 323 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Re: Catching Up [Carolyn Dorsey ] Re: [loud-fans] Catching Up [] [loud-fans] Re: pink and green spouting whales [Boyof100lists@aol.com] [loud-fans] Re: Catching Up [Matthew Weber ] [loud-fans] Kodachrome [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Kodachrome [John Cooper ] [loud-fans] Guestroom [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Guestroom [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Kodachrome [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Guestroom ["glenn mcdonald" ] [loud-fans] for your bad-writing enjoyment ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions [Michael Mitton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:56:08 -0400 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Catching Up Thanks Stewart- I never said I was unfamiliar with John Coltrane but I didn't put two and two together on how those words related to the song. When I first heard the song I was driving and I wondered why that lyric about a famous jazz song kept repeating and didn't give it enough thought. So I was lazy and I asked the list instead. I'll definitely check out Consonant. I also happen to have a long version of My Favorite Things on a beautiful live recording of Coltranes called Afro Blue Impressions. The song begins traditionally and melodically identifiable as My Favorite Things and by the end is very deconstructed if that is quite the right term. It's very powerful and beautiful but I can't listen to a steady dose of him. I prefer his more mainstream recordings-I like listening to some of his explorations but I prefer to be able to catch some grounding in a melody. In my opinion there is no one who can rival his power and originality. Even on the more straight ahead recordings of his there is this emotional quality that goes way beyond the playing of an instrument. He was a convert to Islam and his beliefs deeply affected his music. What other Western converts to Islam come to mind? John Coltrane Richard Thompsopn Cat Stevens Carolyn on 9/11/02 2:02 AM, Stewart Mason at flamingo@theworld.com wrote: > At 03:02 AM 9/10/2002 -0400, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: >> 5-Consonant-John Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" This line repeats over and >> over. Now what do they mean? > > This has mostly been answered, but bearing in mind that you've mentioned > on-list that your jazz knowledge is sketchy: John Coltrane's late career > had several highlights, but his version of "My Favorite Things" (from THE > SOUND OF MUSIC) is largely considered his masterpiece. He and his group > really opened it up -- I have one live take that lasts over 26 minutes! -- > and turned it into a real masterpiece of modal improvisation. It may just > be my interpretation of the lyrics, but like that other modal jazz classic > KIND OF BLUE, John Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" is a favorite soundtrack > to, ahem, amorous activites by a certain subset of undergrads. > > And yes, buy this record. It's still my favorite of the year. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:08:43 +0000 From: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Catching Up > What other Western converts to Islam come to mind? Leaving aside hip-hop, soul, and jazz, where there are such long lists of converts that I wouldn't know where to start, one guy who springs to mind is the Stone Roses' Ian Brown - but apparently he only converted so he could get better prison food while he was locked up over that 'air rage' business. peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:21:00 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Re: pink and green spouting whales In a message dated 9/10/02 4:13:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, durandal@sprintmail.com writes: > But I do > agree with Mark on the "not-dressed-up" look that Lisa Birnbach wrote about > some 21 years ago (and I still have my copy of 'The Official Preppy > Handbook' somewhere in the house). Mine is autographed. I was a strange 14-year-old. Worse than Emily. Fave line from the book: "Should I call you for breakfast or just nudge you?" Oh, and don't forget "The Prep/Punk connection." - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:36:30 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Catching Up At 9:56 AM -0400 9/11/02, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: > >What other Western converts to Islam come to mind? > >John Coltrane 'Trane converted to Islam? I was unaware of that. He must be the only Muslim to ever have been canonized by an Anglican/Eastern Orthodox fringe group (the African Orthodox Church). > >Richard Thompsopn >Cat Stevens Momus converted to Islam in an attempt to make his fiancee Shazna's family like him. It didn't work, he didn't really believe in it, and they divorced later. Matt Appeal from Philip drunk to Philip sober. Valerius Maximus, Facta ad Dicta Memorabilia (c. A.D. 32), VI, ii ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:01:13 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Kodachrome Jen sent me some links with different Loud-fan's pictures! So THAT'S what some of you look like! Now I don't feel so much I'm talking to beautiful perfect pouty J Crew models in New York lofts. I tend to think of smart people as always being flawlessly perfect in my mind (when I was a teenager listening to Sally Jesse Raphael on the radio, she was a hippie goddess). You guys probably go to the bathroom and wash your underwear just like me! Most of you look like the people who work at the public radio station I volunteer at...laid back and cool. Thanks Jenny babe! - -Mark S. np: Ivy "Guest Room" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:22:35 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Kodachrome On 9/11/02, Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: >You guys probably go to the bathroom and wash your underwear just like me! Only after reading one of your posts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:30:31 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Guestroom More about this record, the covers are excellent choices. Their version of "KIte" by Nick Heyward is perfect for Dominique's lite French Nico voice, and is much better than Nick's version to me, and I've been a fan of his since "Pelican West." "Digging Your Scene" by the Blow Monkeys (whom didn't do anything for me) sounds great in their style. The Go-Betweens "Streets of Your Town" is fun (even if the town is full of battered wives) as well as House of Love's "I Don't Know Why I Love You." They threw "I Guess I'm Just A Little Too Sensitive" on here, but it was on the "Lately" EP. I heard one of these songs in a movie recently, but I can't remember which or what movie. Driving me crazy. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Guestroom On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: > They threw "I Guess I'm Just A Little Too Sensitive" on here, but it was > on the "Lately" EP. Fully half of the album was previously released tracks, but since I'm not sure that there's such a thing as an Ivy completist, it's going to be as new to most people as it was to me, I think. I can't say it would be the first thing in my budget after rent, but I like it a fair amount, certainly more than any other covers album I can think of except for Emm's. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:39:06 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Kodachrome In a message dated 9/11/02 11:26:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, john.cooper@pobox.com writes: > Only after reading one of your posts. > I recommend Charmin and Tide with bleach, then. Sorry, I only allow Stewart to skin me alive and roll me in broken glass. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:59:03 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Guestroom I don't consider myself a big Ivy fan, either, but I'm surprised how much I'm liking a few of these, especially ones where I don't much care for the original. For another album in a vaguely similar mood, I'm also liking Echo's self-titled debut more than I expected. The gimmick here is Joy Askew singing old standards (including four Cole Porter songs) and a few originals over NY d&b/jazz musician Takuya Nakamura's twittery electronic accompaniments. I'm not sure it'll have a long stay in my high-rotation queue as foreground music, but it's very pleasant. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:01:40 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] for your bad-writing enjoyment This (both the review and the album to which it refers) is what happens when you learn English from bad fantasy novels: http://www.metal-observer.com/gb/reviews/rev610.html. glenn (looking forward to the day when he knows enough Japanese to have somebody snark "This is what happens when you learn Japanese from anime and pop songs...") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] for your bad-writing enjoyment On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > This (both the review and the album to which it refers) is what happens when > you learn English from bad fantasy novels: > http://www.metal-observer.com/gb/reviews/rev610.html. Portmanteau adjective the nature of the origin of which is least understood by the author: atrocitistic (This page is the only one in Google w/ that word.) Break like the razor-wind... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:46:10 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: [loud-fans] Richard Thompson on Fresh Air today Or so I'm told. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:41:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] my heart (and stomach) swells patriotically So I'm wondering past a vending machine prior to teaching a class this afternoon, and I see an item in the machine that's completely irresistible in its kitsch value - plus timely! Sixty-five cents later, I was the proud owner of the package whose image you may view here: www.uwm.edu/~jenor/bakedintheusa.jpg A bit of a miscalculation on the manufacturer's part, though: when you open the bag, all the patriotic little animal-cracker -like bits have crumbled into a rather disturbing rubble. I ate a little bit of Uncle Sam's hat and beard, part of Ms. Liberty's crown, and an intact torch. In addition to the items depicted on the bag, there's a star-studded "USA" cookie, and a wavy flag cookie. However, no "moral compass"-shaped cookie - - alas. Eat the symbols of your nation - otherwise, the terrorists have already won. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ps: does anyone else think Ms. Liberty looks a bit like Daria Morgendorffer's mother? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:30:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] missed opportunity The Onion this week features an interview with Sam Phillips (the Elvis guys), who I'd somehow assumed was dead. But dammit, it would've been perfect timing to have also featured an interview with...Sam Phillips. (And assuredly, any photo of her would look better than the photo of him...) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ np: Superchunk _Here's to Shutting Up_ (beginning of post) Larry Tucker's Swap CD-R (ending - sound great, Larry! Review later...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:42:02 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions I cannot off the top of my head remember what list member quotes Neal Stephenson's _Snow Crash_, but I was thinking of reading _The Diamond Age_. Who can give me a good off-list evaluation, please? Somebody at work was telling me I need to read SC but when reading a writer for the first time, like albums, I like to go from the latest, then the first, and work my way through the middle books, but since I haven't read anything from the genre of Science Fiction since reading Star Wars novels as a pre-teen, I'm thinking of blowing off my last/first rule. Is there something more recent than _The Diamond Age_ that only a true completist would know of? Or should I read _Snow Crash_ before I read anything else without a doubt? - -Mark S. np: Pulp "We Love Life" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:06:41 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions At 10:42 PM 9/11/2002 EDT, Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: >Is there something more recent than _The >Diamond Age_ that only a true completist would know of? Yes, but there's also CRYPTONOMICON, a best-selling novel that came out two or three years ago. You should also be aware that Neal Stephenson has written five novels, only two of which could be called science fiction: the others are a satiric college novel, a comic mystery in the style of Lawrence Block or Donald Westlake, and CYRPTONOMICON itself, which is more of a spy novel than anything else. All of them are quite good until the last 20 pages or so, where they turn to absolute shit because the guy is seemingly incapable of writing a satisfying ending. However, as a fan of Douglas Coupland, you're used to reading absolute shit, so this'll be less of a problem for you. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:30:55 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > others are a satiric college novel, a comic mystery in the style of > Lawrence Block or Donald Westlake what is the latter, please? > of a spy novel than anything else. All of them are quite good until the > last 20 pages or so, where they turn to absolute shit because the guy is i liked a great many things about _the diamond age_ a great deal, but was really revolted by a handful of things/scenes in it. it's much less cartoony than _snow crash_. ("crash" has a bunch of built-in appeal for some nerd cultures which i suspect doesn't translate well outside those cultures -- on the other hand, it has some pretty neat ideas in it. but i would call it a bad entree for anyone whose idea of "scifi" includes "star wars," or who is daunted by the phrase "novel of ideas.") those represent the extent of my stephenson experience to date; what i know leads me to believe that Mark might better start with "crypto," but it represents quite an investment of time and i'm hesitant to recommend too forcefully anything i can't vouch for personally. ("'nomicon"'s sheer size keeps pushing it toward the bottom of the burgeoning "to-read" stack.) incidentally, i thought much of the technology described in _the diamond age_ was quite unrealistic... until i read gershenfeld's (non-fiction) book _when things start to think_, about some of the work underway at MIT's media lab...which includes working prototypes of some of the most startling tech in "diamond." i just finished another MITers book, dertouzos's _the unfinished revolution_, and i think there's ample grist for a mordantly funny dystopian satire about the inevitable downside of much of what he describes. presciently, perhaps? - -- d. dept. of andyhamlinology: "click here to remove your self" ...from some spam i keep getting. brrrrrrr. (i haven't clicked... ...i'm still here. coincidence????) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:31:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > Yes, but there's also CRYPTONOMICON, a best-selling novel that came out two > or three years ago. Which I am reading right now, as chance would have it, and am loving it. It obviously plays into the math-geek side of me, but I like the right-brain exercise while reading a non-sci-fi novel. - --Michael Also Reading: THE HUNT FOR ZERO POINT by Nick Cook ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:01:57 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions At 11:30 PM 9/11/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: >On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > >> others are a satiric college novel, a comic mystery in the style of >> Lawrence Block or Donald Westlake > >what is the latter, please? ZODIAC. The former is THE BIG U, and both have been reissued in the last year or so. I quite liked both, but Stephenson's got a point when he dismisses THE BIG U as juvenilia -- it's definitely a first novel. >i liked a great many things about _the diamond age_ a great deal, but was >really revolted by a handful of things/scenes in it. it's much less >cartoony than _snow crash_. ("crash" has a bunch of built-in appeal for >some nerd cultures which i suspect doesn't translate well outside those >cultures -- on the other hand, it has some pretty neat ideas in it. but i >would call it a bad entree for anyone whose idea of "scifi" includes "star >wars," or who is daunted by the phrase "novel of ideas.") I'm largely clueless when it comes to science fiction, and I don't really fall into the specific nerd cultures of which Doug speaks -- hanging out with Charity's MIT buddies has convinced me that engineering nerds and liberal arts nerds are two largely separate species -- but although I'm sure many of the in-jokes went whizzing past me, I think I got the gist of SNOW CRASH. The term "novel of ideas" is utterly apropos, though; I'd compare Neal Stephenson to the likes of Iris Murdoch before I'd compare him to, say, Roger Zelazny. He's much funnier than either, however. S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:12:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stephenson questions On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Stewart Mason wrote: > ZODIAC. The former is THE BIG U, and both have been reissued in the last > year or so. I quite liked both, but Stephenson's got a point when he > dismisses THE BIG U as juvenilia -- it's definitely a first novel. In particular, it has a completely useless first-person narrator: that is, there's no good reason (as I recall) for him to be in the novel as narrator. Further, early on there's some wind blown around about his being black, a fact which...is utterly irrelevant. There were some other serious problems which I forget right now, but it was damned entertaining to read anyway. I liked all of 'em, and have read all of 'em - but I kind of agree w/Stewart about the endings... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ (and there's yr Stephenson quote .sig, Mark!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:38:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] Lost In.... the mail?? Is there anyone out here in Loudfanland that is STILL waiting for their copy of LOST IN SPACE to arrive? I'm probably alone on this. Phil F. NP... Ani Difranco _So Much Shouting, So Much Laughter_ Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #323 *******************************