From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #316 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, September 6 2002 Volume 02 : Number 316 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Furrier Psychedelics [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] FW: Matthew Sweet ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] Who cares? [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] Furrier Psychedelics [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Full Frontal ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] spoon...morphs into The Bigger Lovers [Boyof100lists@aol.] RE: [loud-fans] spoon...morphs into The Bigger Lovers ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss ["richblath" ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss ["David Seldin" ] [loud-fans] Flaming (ns) [Dana Paoli ] [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] discuss [Boyof100lists@aol.com] [loud-fans] Cute band alert! [Boyof100lists@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:33:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Furrier Psychedelics On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: > -Mark, buying the first Furs reissue tomorrow...how many times does the word > "stupid" appear in the lyrics on that record? About as many times as the word "useless"... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:39:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Who cares? On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 OptionsR@aol.com wrote: > Dillinger Escape Plan EP (with Mike Patton as guest vocalist), or how their > cover of Aphex Twin's "Come To Daddy" is to the original what The Residents' > version of "Satisfaction" was to the Stones'. Well, other than right then, > that is. Considering that Aphex Twin's "Come to Daddy" almost is as the Residents' version of "Satisfaction" is to the Stones', I'd be curious to hear this one...may have to check this one out. Can you say anything more about the EP? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::To be the center of the universe, don't orbit things:: __Scott Miller__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:52:01 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] FW: Matthew Sweet Probably of interest to many of you. - -Larry |Just saw this on the R.E.M. website: | |On October 1, 2002, Hip-O Records will release "To |Understand--The Early Recordings Of Matthew Sweet." Among the |22 tracks and rarities included on the CD is "Tainted |Obligation," a duet between Sweet and Michael Stipe recorded |in 1983 under the moniker, Community Trolls. Jeff Calder |(Swimming Pool Qs) who composed the CD's liner notes, |describes the song as "a country duet with vocal harmonies |that might be likened to the Everly Brothers." Of particular |interest to R.E.M. fans: Stipe plays accordion on the song. | |Thought you might like to know a new Matthew Sweet CD is on |the way (if you didn't already), ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:19:05 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Furrier Psychedelics On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: > -Mark, buying the first Furs reissue tomorrow...how many times does the word > "stupid" appear in the lyrics on that record? ooh! does it have lyrics? i've contended for years that the word "stupid" appears in every single song, with the most obviously jokey being that last repetition in "flowers" -- "out of him came [half-laugh] stupid light, that's flowers." but i was never completely sure. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Who cares? On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 OptionsR@aol.com wrote: > nights. If that documentary on the making of "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" (anyone > on the list seen this yet?) was still at The Music Box, I'd have a stupid i really liked it, even though i knew the story (it's structured, oddly, in a way that seems to assume the viewer doesn't know the story -- it ends with the album's release on nonsuch). i thought some of the pre-breakup footage was astounding: squirmy uncomfortable in-your-face band dysfunction. it sure doesn't do jay bennet any kindnesses. it make me want to see wilco live again. amy may have more coherent opinions...? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:32:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Furrier Psychedelics On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, dmw wrote: > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: > > > -Mark, buying the first Furs reissue tomorrow...how many times does the word > > "stupid" appear in the lyrics on that record? > > ooh! does it have lyrics? The above constitutes a springboard for the following two mini-rants: 1) The original LP release in the US (on Columbia) had lyrics. For some dumb-ass reason, it seems, some CD reissues (I don't know about mine, since once I've read the lyrics once I seldom reread them) lack them. Why? I suppose to trim several microcents from the production costs, and perhaps some sort of publishing fee. Grrr. 2) That guy on this list who writes even more words than I do writes this week about the new album by Idlewild. I liked their last one quite a bit, and given that that album got a pretty large amount of critical buzz, and was released by Capitol in the US, why O Great Freakin Why has Capitol (or whoever's handling US release) decided not to release it here until *2003*? Since, as glenn suggests, this is undoubtedly a "rock" album, and no one but nerdy cognoscenti cares about rock anymore, and NC are well known for squirreling out import releases by their obsessed-over bands, doesn't Capitol realize that they're undercutting their own best hope of generating a larger buzz about this album, by letting many of its most influential buyers purchase the import rather than their own copy? Oh sure, Capitol might well toss on a US-only bonus track to try to attract back the NC, but wouldn't it be easier *just to release the damned thing when it's ready*? Plus, I'm assuming by "2003" glenn means more or less early 2003 - and who, but NC yet again (who will have already had the import for four or five months), buys records in the month or two after Christmas? Grrr again. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n matches? The Architectural Dance Society candles? www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html matches? candles? np: Cotton Mather _The Big Picture_ buns? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:39:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Full Frontal Reactions to this one? Rose and I liked it a lot... (Note: features a Pollard/Gillard track over the closing credits) - --Jeff, who thinks this ought to play with _XXX_ at the Not What You Think Theater... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::playing around with the decentered self is all fun and games ::until somebody loses an I. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:22:28 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Full Frontal >Reactions to this one? Rose and I liked it a lot... Maybe not Top Ten material for me, but I was pretty darned impressed. Altman came to mind, in the sense that Soderbergh's making creative use of the "Hollywood is decadent and depraved" trope, and structuring one of his narratives around a shadowy, powerful character who is only shown briefly. Hard to beat Catherine Keener's mad scenes (though everyone who hasn't seen her in LOVELY & AMAZING please go do that), or Nicky Katt as Hitler (who only thinks he isn't mad, but that's how he makes it work). In fairness, though, I'm not the biggest Soderbergh cheerleader on the squad. SEX LIES & VIDEOTAPE I loved, but I found OUT OF SIGHT a by-the-numbers story gussied up with look-ma-no-hands visuals, and I was only lukewarm on THE LIMEY (Peter Fonda much more interesting that Terence Stamp). He seems to bounce back and forth between high-profile films and weirder, perhaps more interesting, lower-profile fare. For FULL FRONTAL, he's combining a genuinely weird idea with a Hollywood cast. I just didn't understand the slagging it took from critics. But I still don't understand why the critics all loved OUT OF SIGHT, either. You'll find an interview with FULL FRONTAL's (first-time!) screenwriter here: http://www.moviemaker.com/hop/15/screenwriting.html Also wondering how glenn had occasion to hear SILVER BELL (and why I seem to be getting responses to certain messages, but not the messages themselves), Andy Q: What was the impetus for your latest film, Harvard Man? A: I had this catastrophic as soon as I start to use any word, its impotence overwhelms me. I mean, catastrophe, disaster, cataclysmic devastationnone of it even does vague justice to what the experience really was. It was, for eight days, the erasure of the self. The elimination of the self. Which is to say that the Iwhich I, like most people functioning in the world, had assumed exists in some absolute wayis in fact a sham, an artificial construct. All of a sudden the reading that I had been doing, the philosophers whom [the professor] Chesney is teaching in Harvard ManHeidegger, Kierkegaard and Wittgensteintheres a whole tradition of the self as an imposed structure over a void that is the natural state of consciousness. Its one thing to understand that analytically and to be able to get an A on a test in which one is writing about it, and its another to be viscerally aware that thats the truth and not to have a self. You cant function in the so-called real world and not have one. Maybe for an hour or two, certainly not for a day. As the line goes in the movie, there are some people who are in straight jackets and some who are chanting in the hills and the mountains of Nepal. But I didnt want to do that; I wanted to continue to function in this mundane world and all of a sudden and I found I couldnt for eight days. [--director/writer James Toback, from an interview by Jennifer M. Wood at http://www.moviemaker.com/hop/15/directing.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:05:54 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spoon...morphs into The Bigger Lovers In a message dated 9/4/02 4:38:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ltucker@townofchapelhill.org writes: > Pardon the cross list post, but yeah Mark this is an amazing album. I've > had not had an album hit me so completely in the last few years since > Elliott Smith's XO. For fans of Velvet Crush, it doesn't get much better > than this. As Mark said "buy it now". Every one of its 11 songs are > stick in your head memorable. It also reminds me of the Mayflies USA, > but is SO much better. Mark, I think previously you asked me about their > first album, which I think is really good (maybe more Big Star like), > but this one really delivers on the potential that album hinted at. > > There you have it, Loud-fans. Larry likes it, and since his list cred is about 9+ times higher than mine, maybe you'll believe. The Bigger Lovers are fab gear. If you'll excuse me, I have to go write about myself now in my diary. I'm almost finished with my 7 page love letter to Stewart Murdoch, and changing the candles in my Douglas Coupland shrine (all that wax!...so messy). - -Mark S., enjoying more nutrition-free food for lunch (Totino's hamburger "party" pizza...feels so "latchkey" elementary school afternoon to me). I will miss my normal summer lunch of garden tomatoes from the back yard sliced on Merita bread with Duke's mayo...yummy np: Scrabbel s/t Nutritional Slumming: Food whose enjoyment stems not from flavor but from a complex mixture of class connotations, nostalgia signals, and packaging semiotics: Katie and I bought this tub of Multi-Whip instead of real whip cream because we thought petroleum distillate whip topping seemed like the sort of food that air force wives stationed in Pensacola back in the early sixties would feed their husbands to celebrate a career promotion. (from _Generation X_) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:09:26 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] spoon...morphs into The Bigger Lovers -----Original Message----- From: Boyof100lists@aol.com [mailto:Boyof100lists@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 1:06 PM To: Larry Tucker; loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: Re: [loud-fans] spoon...morphs into The Bigger Lovers In a message dated 9/4/02 4:38:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ltucker@townofchapelhill.org writes: Pardon the cross list post, but yeah Mark this is an amazing album. I've had not had an album hit me so completely in the last few years since Elliott Smith's XO. For fans of Velvet Crush, it doesn't get much better than this. As Mark said "buy it now". Every one of its 11 songs are stick in your head memorable. It also reminds me of the Mayflies USA, but is SO much better. Mark, I think previously you asked me about their first album, which I think is really good (maybe more Big Star like), but this one really delivers on the potential that album hinted at. There you have it, Loud-fans. Larry likes it, and since his list cred is about 9+ times higher than mine, maybe you'll believe. The Bigger Lovers are fab gear. +++++++++++++++++ I didn't know I had ANY credibility. -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:01:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Full Frontal On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > Maybe not Top Ten material for me, but I was pretty darned impressed. > Altman came to mind, in the sense that Soderbergh's making creative use of > the "Hollywood is decadent and depraved" trope, and structuring one of his > narratives around a shadowy, powerful character who is only shown briefly. > Hard to beat Catherine Keener's mad scenes (though everyone who hasn't seen > her in LOVELY & AMAZING please go do that), or Nicky Katt as Hitler (who > only thinks he isn't mad, but that's how he makes it work). I thought it was very funny. I think that's something, for some reason (probably the "artistic" film-in-a-film thing, etc.), that a lot of critics seem to have missed. It earned a rare "I'd like to see it again soon" from Rose, who, unlike me, wants to wait months between viewings. (If you're wondering, the other two movies recently she wanted to see again right away were _Memento_ and _Sixth Sense_.) Agree w/you on the performances...I find it amusing how little Duchovny had to change his Mulder shtick in order to come across as such a creep... > In fairness, though, I'm not the biggest Soderbergh cheerleader on the > squad. SEX LIES & VIDEOTAPE I loved, but I found OUT OF SIGHT a > by-the-numbers story gussied up with look-ma-no-hands visuals, and I was > only lukewarm on THE LIMEY (Peter Fonda much more interesting that Terence > Stamp). I'm a little iffy on SL&V, and liked _The Limey_ a lot (and was amused by Stamp's "Limey" cameo millisecond in _Full Frontal_). I was quite entertained by _Out of Sight_; then again, I think the movie was less about plot than it was about character and Elmore Leonard's writing - therefore, just fine with me. (I think that about Leonard's novels often, as well - the plots are there to give the characters something to do, sometimes. Again, if you're Elmore Leonard, that's just fine.) You're right about his mainstream/weird oscillation - hey, do we know any other artists who've done that? I probably should - but I still haven't seen _Erin Brockovich_ or _Ocean's Eleven_ - just for fun. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: The possibility of Klingon slash fiction :: fills me with mild apprehension. __ Michael Quinion __ np: Nick Heyward _The Apple Bed_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 18:33:58 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hodgepodge of opinions and other crap > > Jeff Sez: > > > > Not sure what the deal is here - but what is it with > > these folks in their > > late thirties/early forties (raises hand) who seem > > incapable anymore of > > writing the occasional quicker song? Even one can > > marvelously liven up an > > album (although a few more might be needed at a show > > - so that's why God > > invented the cover song). > Reminds me of a conversation I had with Steve Wynn - not like that's a regular occurrence or anything! When I mentioned that the last time I'd seen the Church live they had played at a less intense tempo, he seemed rather upset at the implication that this could be a sign of maturity/age and expressed the hope that, when he saw them later that year in NYC, that they'd be rattling up as much of a storm as before. Needless to say his albums continue to mix tempos amongst other things, though the Church's stuff is definitely much more sedate than their Heyday. (Is there anyone else out there who thinks that this album was their heyday and that Cracker's Golden Age had a similar self-prophetic angle? Any other band's albums with a similar unintentional second meaning?) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:25:15 -0500 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Hodgepodge - only crap left It seems to me that most of the songs on the new Aimee (I finally got it, yea!) are about drugs... Is she OK? C'mom Aimee, snap out of it.... That Pavlov's Bell song though, that is killer..... Phil: That was the thing I LIKED about Aimee Mann's _Bachelor No. 2_. I thought it was too samey sounding, but the lyrical content and enough production 'tricks' made it an easier disc to listen to. I agree with everyone about the new Aimee Mann record, but at least it's a slightly quicker tempo than the majority of the last one. It just seems like now that her record company troubles are more or less done, she has nothing very good to write about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:26:51 -0500 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hodgepodge of opinions and other crap There was the album "This is Bull" by Bull...... "richblath" rld.co.uk> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hodgepodge of opinions and other crap owner-loud-fans@s moe.org 09/05/02 12:33 PM > (Is there anyone else out there who thinks that this album was their heyday and that Cracker's Golden Age had a similar self-prophetic angle? Any other band's albums with a similar unintentional second meaning?) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:55:33 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] discuss What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:00:12 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss Put out ONE BEAT, imo. Personally, I can't see what all the fuss is about. To my mind it's definitely inferior to ALL HANDS ON THE BAD ONE and THE HOT ROCK. Richard - ----- Original Message ----- From: "glenn mcdonald" To: "LoudFans" Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: [loud-fans] discuss > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 15:53:54 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss >What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad >review? Easy--hire me to review one of their records. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:15:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? Apparently, have you ask Loudfans "What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review?" - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: The possibility of Klingon slash fiction :: fills me with mild apprehension. __ Michael Quinion __ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:19:21 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? quit working with john goodmanson, the wizard of monstrous guitar sound? no, i dunno, what do you mean? they're weekensses are the same as they ever were -- they're still shrill, in more ways than one, and the lyrics still aren't very good. i think those things are outweighed by countering factors on pretty much all their records; _one beat_ is a bit more superficially "pop" which has its upside and its downside. - -- d. np you're pretty _beautiful accident_ (guilty pleasure du jour) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 18:33:51 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:55:33 -0400 "glenn mcdonald" writes: > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad > review? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm w/Doug in not entirely understanding the question, partly because they *have* gotten bad reviews in the past. I mean, *you've* given them bad reviews, and *I've* given them bad reviews. What, are we chopped liver? Do you mean "What would S-K have to do to get a bad review from all the people who have previously given them good reviews [that weren't deserved]?" Or something else? For my part, though, the answer would be: "When they make another album as annoying as all the ones that preceded One Beat." - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 18:58:37 -0400 From: "David Seldin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss Make a bad record? David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "glenn mcdonald" To: "LoudFans" Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: [loud-fans] discuss > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:04:34 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Flaming (ns) Wow, speaking of the Flaming Lips (this from the new Parasol thingy): Flaming Lips The Day They Shot A Hole In The Jesus Egg: The "In A Priest Driven Ambulance" Album, Demos, and Outtakes 1989-1991 (PRE-ORDER: SALEABLE October 1, 2002) PS, US Deluxe repackaging of the band's 1991 album. Remastered versions of the album plus the concurrently released (and also brilliant) Unconsciously Screamin' EP, demo vertsions of most of the tracks from the album, and additional songs from the period. This album marks the first time the band worked with producer Dave Fridman and stands with their very best work. 2xCD Restless-73765 DCD $17.75 I'd amend that to say that it *is* their very best work, by a long shot. Very good news (well, unless the remastering, the EP, the demos and the additional songs all suck)!! - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:20:14 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) I'm not a member of that list, but I know some of them are here. Just a quick question: a copy of Underwater Moonlight turned up at Holy Cow that I haven't seen before. It has a different cover with lots of colorful whales and it's not on Armageddon as far as I can tell. Track listing looks the same, but I just wanted to be sure (and it is kind of neat looking). Are there any alternate mixes on this, or is it the same as the "standard" version, whatever that may be at this point. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:39:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:55:33 -0400 "glenn mcdonald" > writes: > > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad > > review? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I'm w/Doug in not entirely understanding the question, partly because > they *have* gotten bad reviews in the past. I think y'all are being too literal. Of course, they've gotten *some* bad reviews. I think the phenomena being directed to our attention is the way some bands develop a sort of critical shield, polished to quite the sheen, whereby critics are both blinded and see only the reflections of all the other critics, and somehow can't see beyond that shield - sometimes to the point of never asking, "yes, but it is it any good?" I think a lot of rock critics are just the wee-est bit condescending about S-K's gender, only in this case the condescension is expressed in the sort of tower-of-ivory manner of excess praise - as if, somehow, it would be sexist to criticize S-K. This is, of course, absurd - but no one ever claimed rock critics as a body, male rock crits in particular, were particularly enlightened as to gender issues. There's also the punky, DIY thing, the integrity thing, the (generally unspoken) cute thing - and I do think a lot of what S-K does *is* quite good. Although, y'know, they're not my favorite band or anything - and yeah, the one singer overdoes it and is shrill at times. Even that, though, I think, garners them some praise, in that so many indie bands have singers who kind of mumble through their vocals, such that someone who just belts out the vocals like she does gets praised by contrast. I'd say if she did that half as often, it'd work better - again, by contrast. (I haven't heard the new one, btw - I'm sure I will, eventually.) Actually, I think the answer to glenn's question is: hire session musicians, appear in sequined halter tops, have their tour sponsored by Coors, and start pimping to bomb Iraq. That would about do them in, I'd say. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ lp: in car, GbV _Isolation Drills_; at home, about to play Wilco _Yankee Hotel Foxtrot_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:52:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > I'm not a member of that list, but I know some of them are here. Just a > quick question: a copy of Underwater Moonlight turned up at Holy Cow > that I haven't seen before. It has a different cover with lots of > colorful whales and it's not on Armageddon as far as I can tell. Track > listing looks the same, but I just wanted to be sure (and it is kind of > neat looking). Are there any alternate mixes on this, or is it the same > as the "standard" version, whatever that may be at this point. I'm not familiar with this edition, but Matador last year reissued UM with the original tracks on one CD and a bunch of contemporary tracks, demos, etc., on a second CD. The original edition had, I believe, 10 tracks. Ryko reissued it with eight bonus tracks (Vegetable Man (Syd Barrett), Strange, Only the Stones Remain, Where Are the Prawns?, Dreams, Black Snake Diamond Rock, There's Nobody Like You, and Song No. 4). Matador's reissue (offically called _Underwater Moonlight...And How It Got There_) has all those tracks, an early version of "He's a Reptile," and a zillion other tracks, most of which I (truthfully) don't remember as being particularly distinguished. (They're listed at AMG if you're curious.) Uh-and, I really don't know whether the mixes of the "bonus" tracks were the same on the Ryko and Matador editions, never mind the Armageddon LP. I suspect one of the web's zillion Robyn sites will inform you on all this in excruciating detail... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?:: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:16:57 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss glenn: What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? Jeff: I think y'all are being too literal...[approx. 289 words omitted]...That would about do them in, I'd say. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn, glenn. You have *got* to send me a copy of that compression algorithm you're using. Despite the long apologia, though, I suspect that the phenomena being directed to our attention was that glenn thinks that Sleater-Kinney get better reviews than they deserve. The "at this point" leads me to believe that he thinks that this album is somehow worse than what came before, but given the nature of his reviews of *some* of their earlier albums, I'm not sure that that's possible (unless the CD reached out of its case and attacked him). Which leaves me still wondering whether glenn likes or dislikes the new CD. I'm also still wondering which member of the band is supposed to be cute. Maybe I'll find out the answers to both questions next Thursday. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:32:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Uh-and, I really don't know whether the mixes of the "bonus" tracks were > the same on the Ryko and Matador editions, never mind the Armageddon LP. My memory is that the Matador issue was nicely remastered but used the same old mixes. Since I am not generally that brand of obsessive about Robyn, what this really means is that I remember it sounding nice but familiar. The web seems to agree with me, though. Was the positive mention Nextdoorland just got here based on an advance copy? I didn't think it was out yet. On the other hand, I didn't think the new Negro Problem was out yet and it is. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:35:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dear Fegmaniax (ns) On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > Was the positive mention Nextdoorland just got here based on an advance > copy? I didn't think it was out yet. On the other hand, I didn't think the > new Negro Problem was out yet and it is. Everything I've heard suggests _Nextdoorland_ (lame title) has a 9-24 release date. I didn't know there was a new Negro Problem CD to be out or not yet...as if I didn't already have too many new titles to buy (new for me...the list is quite old). - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::You think your country needs you, but you know it never will:: __Elvis Costello__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:50:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > Damn, glenn. You have *got* to send me a copy of that compression > algorithm you're using. I believe it's called "The De-F-Ulator," which sounds disgusting no matter how you pronounce it. > CD. I'm also still wondering which member of the band is supposed to be > cute. Maybe I'll find out the answers to both questions next Thursday. Hey, I'm just repeating what I've read and heard. None of them particularly does it for me, but they're all kinda cute in a sort of grad-student/clerk-at-feminist-bookstore way, if you're into that sort of thing. Those who actively lust after any member of S-K are free to weigh in more specifically. In unrelated news, this week's _Onion_ has a great feature on commentary tracks from lame-ass complete failure movies. The line that drew my attention is this bit describing one "crime" of the Britney Spears vehicle _Crossroads_ as "pandering to men ages 40 and up by featuring Spears in see-through underwear and hot-pink lingerie." I've no idea why it caught my attention, though. - --Jeff, born 12-20-61 J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Sting, where is thy death?:: __Alan Gray_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:25:07 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] discuss In a message dated 9/5/02 3:52:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, glenn@furia.com writes: > What, at this point, would Sleater-Kinney have to do to get a bad review? > Put out a Christian album. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:37:36 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Cute band alert! Just kidding. This ain't 1991, and I ain't Jane Pratt. However, I heard a new release today by a band called Interpol...the name of the album is "Turn on the Bright Lights," and it is pretty good. It reminds me of "Strange Free World" era Kitchens of Distinction, with a bit of Coldplay or Radiohead or something along those lines to give it zest. I think it is on sale from the label nationally for about $9.99 for the album. Worth checking into. Back me up Heather. - -Mark S. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #316 *******************************