From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #294 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, August 22 2002 Volume 02 : Number 294 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction ["richblath" ] RE: [loud-fans] Special announcement [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Sight & Sound redux, or, Loudfan makes good ["Andrew Hamlin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:20:04 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) Only that the industry that sold people on CD with the slogan "Perfect Sound Forever" are going to have a helluva time selling them their music for a _third_ time by saying "It's even more perfect this time", especially while building in copy protection, considering that a vanishingly small number of people have the ears / equipment / listening environment to appreciate these "even more perfect than last time" recordings. >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that's the thing: according to the article (I have absolutely no first-hand experience) the equipment is now cheap, the SACD's cost only $1 more than regular ones, and even regular folk can hear a difference. It definitely gets me curious. As for copy protection...well, let's just say it's not an issue for me : ) - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:46:48 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction > Jeff says: > > >And of course, her feeling also could have been a coincindence...one among > >many, but notable because she *then* found out something that made "sense" > >of her feeling. > Then Aaron: > > I think we tend to overestimate the value of coinicidence in our lives. > Think about it this way--Most people think that a "million-to-one shot" is a > very unlikely coincidence. But how long to you have to go about your daily > life until a million insignificant things happen? Isn't one of them likely > to be a million-to-one shot? Or in the words of an author whose name escapes me for the moment: 'million to one shots come up nine times out of ten'... or at least they seem to! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:45:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > It definitely gets me curious. As for copy protection...well, let's just > say it's not an issue for me : ) I'm curious too - but for one thing, what exactly *are* SACDs? But I think "copy protection" is an issue even for folks who have not intention of fucking with the Man by making music free, dude. First, what if you want to play your copy-protected "CD" on your computer? Can't. What if your "CD" is out of print now, and you want to make an archival backup? Can't. Etc. etc. And even if you personally are unlikely to do these things, I at least can't come up with a good argument for preventing others from doing so. (Taht is, what's wrong w/playing CDs on computers, making backup copies, etc.?) Especially since such CDs have been sold sans license (i.e., w/o informing consumers of the effective restrictions on their use), and even when there is a notice, it's not terribly clear, I'm guessing. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:55:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] mitch easter interview On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, jenny grover wrote: > Here's a link to a nice Mitch Easter interview, part 1 of a story on the > 20th anniversary of Chronic Town: > > http://www.murmurs.com/rem/newsstand/story.php?contentid=127 And hey - Ballard Lesemann, ex(?)-Rock*a*Teen, conducted the interview. (As everybody should know, the Rock*a*Teens are one of my favorite bands...) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:58:54 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: [loud-fans] Special announcement Our very own Mixmaster Steve Holtebeck is celebrating his birthday today, and those of us here in eastern daylight time still have 1 hour to celebrate along with him. Your so-many-hours-in-the-day may vary depending on geography. A very happy birthday to you, Steve. You always try to keep us on-topic here, but we love you anyway. That I managed to clatter out a birthday message to Steve on his actual birthday is either a coincidence or a paranormal phenomenon. janet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:13:31 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Special announcement > That I managed to clatter out a birthday message to Steve on his actual > birthday is either a coincidence or a paranormal phenomenon. And with the more customary belatedness, we may expand these birthday wishes to include Julianne Overall (Monday) and Aaron Mandel (Tuesday). Please note that all the cool kids are now pronouncing "Mandel" as "Mandible". glenn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:45:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Special announcement On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > And with the more customary belatedness, we may expand these birthday > wishes to include Julianne Overall (Monday) and Aaron Mandel (Tuesday). > Please note that all the cool kids are now pronouncing "Mandel" as > "Mandible". The Mandibular One shares a birthday (but not a birth year) with my wife Rose, the passing of whose thirties we are mourning. We plan on throwing a ten-year long celebratory wake, during which we will prove our forties infinitely superior. (My thirties have been dead and buried since December.) (Curiously, I share a birthday - but not a birth year - with former Loudfan and current Loudfan spouse Andy Ingraham Dwyer. What are the odds, I ask you?) Seatings and grelicitations to Julianne and Aaron, as well as our own Mixmaster! (which phrase I insist on hearing in Mark E. Smith's voice. Although it would be frightening to Steve if MES showed up to share a beer or thirteen with him.) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::[clever or pithy quote]:: __[source of quote]__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:13:30 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) >http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069628 >(SACD players have gotten cheap, and the Rolling Stones' catalog comes >out in SACD in a few days, and the CDs are dual layer so you can also >play them in your regular CD player, *and* there are reasons to buy the >new remasters even if you don't have SACD) >Anyone heard a more negative spin on things? Well, DVD-A beat SACD to most of these punches. Virtually every DVD player now supports DVD-A, so the installed base is a gazillion versus not much for SACD. Prices for DVD-A dropped to near-CD levels a few months ago. The dual layer thing has always been possible in both formats; I don't know how many dual layer DVD-A's have been released. On the other hand, the DVD-A camp hasn't succeeded in breaking the public's association of DVD with video, and has mostly concentrated on surround releases (including remixing catalog albums). Audiophiles still seem to be more interested in stereo. I think that surround, if used properly, has vast potential, but, as with stereo, we can probably count on a lot of tasteless whiz-bang remixes before common sense reasserts itself. And of course, getting a surround system working is expensive and tweaky. The article, unfortunately, doesn't even mention DVD-A. My three-year-old predictions still seem pretty good to me. I think SACD is destined to be a niche format. DVD-A may be as well, but I think its chances of going mainstream are a lot better. I can also add one more advantage to DVD-A: it's going to be much easier for independent musicians to produce one, since DVD burners are becoming common on computers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:29:35 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) At Wednesday 8/21/2002 09:13 PM -0700, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: >My three-year-old predictions still seem pretty good to me. I think SACD is >destined to be a niche format. DVD-A may be as well, but I think its >chances of >going mainstream are a lot better. I can also add one more advantage to DVD-A: >it's going to be much easier for independent musicians to produce one, >since DVD >burners are becoming common on computers. I have three words: Software, software, software. As with video games, personal computers, video formats, etc., it's not the hardware that matters. The Killer App. If and when I decide to purchase an SACD or DVD-A player, that decision will be based on what albums are out in that format that I want to hear. Natalie Merchant? Ho-hum. Let's see which format the New Pornographers or Enon come out in first. SACD has that old quad version of Tubular Bells out. Rust Never Sleeps, y'all. Everything old is new again. Neil Young and Mitch Easter prefer DVD-A, BTW. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:54:30 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) >If and when I decide to purchase an SACD or >DVD-A player, that decision will be based on what albums are out in that >format that I want to hear. Same here... except that, as it happens, I wanted to watch DVD movies, so I bought a DVD player... which just happens to play DVD-A for no extra charge. Same as many, many other people. So I both hope and expect that DVD-A is where the action will be, when and if it finally arrives. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Special announcement Can't that same thing be true for glenn and Scott? Phil F. NP... some Parliament best of - --- Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > (Curiously, I share a birthday - but not a birth > year - with former > Loudfan and current Loudfan spouse Andy Ingraham > Dwyer. What are the odds, > I ask you?) HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:37:59 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: [loud-fans] Sight & Sound redux, or, Loudfan makes good Since no one else seems to have noticed, may I direct your attention to a Sight & Sound poll overview, written by an actual Loudfan for (ta-da!) Arguably The Widest Read And Most Prestigious Webzine Extant: http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069759 Congrats, Dan! A few ponderings, for Dan or anyone else: the article says reputations of THE BICYCLE THIEF (aka BICYCLE THIEVES), THE GOLD RUSH, and CITY LIGHTS have "gradually declined"; any ideas why this is so? Any thoughts on why CITIZEN KANE, nowhere to be found in the original '52 poll, "suddenly" leaped out ten years later to stay top'o'the heap ever since? Camille Paglia counts as a film critic, but Elvis Mitchell, Stuart Klawans, Danny Peary, and Richard Jameson don't? And since when are the first two GODFATHER movies one movie? Nary a vote for REPO MAN in the cartload neither... Andy "The Big Country. The Leopard. Any/all of James Dean's features. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. 'Un Chien Andalou' & 'L'Age d'Or'. (They're shorts, so they can count as one.) Maya Deren's 'Meshes of the Afternoon' and 'At Land'. (Ditto.) The Iron Giant. Sixteen Candles. 'Buster Keaton: A Hard Act to Follow'. 'Elvis '56'." - --the Top Ten (sort of) from my friend Sam, video store employee for over a decade ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #294 *******************************