From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest)
To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org
Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #293
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loud-fans-digest Wednesday, August 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 293
Today's Subjects:
-----------------
RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions ["Ian Runeckles]
RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions ["Paul King"
]
RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions [Jeffrey with 2]
Re: [loud-fans] Re: The Dean / BSC thoughts [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ]
Re: [loud-fans] CD backlash [DOUDIE@aol.com]
[loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction [Boyof100lists@aol.com]
Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction ["Aaron Milenski" ]
Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction [Stewart Mason ]
Re: [loud-fans] IBC/Uncle Lucky [Phil Fleming ]
Re: [loud-fans] Recording time [Stewart Mason ]
RE: [loud-fans] Recording time ["Keegstra, Russell" ]
[loud-fans] recording diary, plus part of an old thread [Jeffrey with 2 F]
Re: [loud-fans] Recording time [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ]
Re: [loud-fans] Recording time ["Paul King" ]
[loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns) [Dana Paoli ]
RE: [loud-fans] mitch easter interview ["Larry Tucker"
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions
Paul says:
If I were to pick out
> the best candidate for a hit single from that album, it would
> have been "We Love You Carol and Alison". Instead they decided
> to push "Erica's Word", which I find mediocre in comparison.
> And the single flopped. IMO, the reason it flopped is because
> it was not distinctive enough. It sounded like it could have
> been done by anyone.
Erica's Word is on BSC not LN. Never mind. Given all the recent dissing
of BSC I thought I'd give it a quick spin seeing as how I've just packed
in one job and have a few days time wasting ahead of me before the next
one starts :-) Four tracks in and hey here's Erica's Word and it sounds
just great to me. Actually, like Gil, I think that BSC is possibly my
favourite GT album - Regenisraen is one of Scott's prettiest songs and I
love the little production touches especially on this track which sound
a bit Page/Plant to me. Some of the synth sounds a little, um, of its
time now, but in a way that adds to its charm. Crash Into June, Here It
Is Tomorrow, Where You Going Northern, Like A Girl Jesus (Scott at his
wistful best although that reverb or echo on the drums is a bit OTT!),
even the slightly more minor songs like The Only Lesson Learned have
lovely little melodies hidden away.
Gil says:
>BSC was recorded and mixed in about
2 weeks in the middle of a tour!
Which is exactly how records *ought* to be made! I think there should
be a rule that if it took longer than 2 weeks to record there should
something like one of those Parental Advisory Warnings on the cover -
"This album took 2 years and a gazillion dollars to produce - please be
advised that it is bollocks".
Ian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:23:18 -0400
From: "Paul King"
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions
From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett"
To: ,
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott -
Newbie questions
Date sent: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:04:39 +0100
> Erica's Word is on BSC not LN. Never mind. Given all the recent dissing
Of course you're right. The reason I get confused is because
our radio station received the Enigma promos for Erica's Word
at the same time that LN came out. It was confusing, as we
didn't get any promos from Enigma that had a cut from LN. And
we never did get a copy of 2 Steps. I only found it in the
delete bins of record shops after Enigma went under. I have
the cassette and the CD.
Secondly, I did not mean to diss BSC, as I have only some
familiarity with the album. I have heard and enjoyed most of
the tracks you mention below, though.
> of BSC I thought I'd give it a quick spin seeing as how I've just packed
> in one job and have a few days time wasting ahead of me before the next
> one starts :-) Four tracks in and hey here's Erica's Word and it sounds
> just great to me. Actually, like Gil, I think that BSC is possibly my
> favourite GT album - Regenisraen is one of Scott's prettiest songs and I
> love the little production touches especially on this track which sound
> a bit Page/Plant to me. Some of the synth sounds a little, um, of its
> time now, but in a way that adds to its charm. Crash Into June, Here It
> Is Tomorrow, Where You Going Northern, Like A Girl Jesus (Scott at his
> wistful best although that reverb or echo on the drums is a bit OTT!),
> even the slightly more minor songs like The Only Lesson Learned have
> lovely little melodies hidden away.
>
> Gil says:
>
> >BSC was recorded and mixed in about
> 2 weeks in the middle of a tour!
>
> Which is exactly how records *ought* to be made! I think there should
> be a rule that if it took longer than 2 weeks to record there should
> something like one of those Parental Advisory Warnings on the cover -
> "This album took 2 years and a gazillion dollars to produce - please be
> advised that it is bollocks".
>
> Ian
===========================================
Paul King
Oakville, ON
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:46:54 -0400
From: "Paul King"
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: [loud-fans] CD backlash
Date sent: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:59:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: dmw
To: Paul King
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: [loud-fans] CD backlash
>
> hey, do i know you from another list? are you on pho?
Nope. But thanks for your response.
>
> -- d.
>
===========================================
Paul King
Oakville, ON
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:49:40 +0000
From:
Subject: [loud-fans] Re: The Dean / BSC thoughts
This is cool - finally I get to make up a subject header which will fool my colleagues at the University into thinking I'm doing some academic-related work!
Jeff wrote re Christgau:
> See, this is the kind of review that gives me problems. Except for a
> vague statement about Reed's guitar, the review gives me *no freakin'
> idea* what this record might sound like.
In Christgau's defence, I would have thought that there's not much need to explain to his readers what a Lou Reed album sounds like unless that album was a major stylistic departure - you pretty much know what to expect. Having said that, the same applies to the lyrical content of the average Lou CD, so maybe the question is why bother reviewing them at all?
Christgau, to me, falls into that category of critics whose reviews I'm interested in only if I've already heard the album in question. I enjoy some of the writing, but would never dream of rushing out and buying a record on the strength of his say-so alone... simply put, when I read a review of something I haven't heard, I want to know (a) what happened, and (b) whether it was any good, and it's surprising how few big-name reviewers manage to convey this information to me.
(Tangential to the above, Andy, loved loved loved your Laughner bit...!)
> oh: "Possum" is eighteen minutes of pointless suckage.
No! There was a good line in there *somewhere*, I swear...
Re BSC, it was the first Scott album I heard, and I picked it up solely on the basis of the Mitch Easter production credit, so given that that was my way into GT/LF, I guess it's inevitable that it'd be one of my favourites - the production is I guess the most recognisably Easter-esque of any Scott album. I adore it, but especially in its Alias reissue incarnation, it feels more to me like a wonderful complilation of tracks than an album proper. Don't know if that makes sense, but I guess what I'm saying is that since Scott is so good at putting together albums which demand to be listened to as a whole, BSC's interlude-free song-by-song approach feels like rather an anomaly to me.
peace & love
phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:46:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] GT, Donnette and Scott - Newbie questions
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote:
> just great to me. Actually, like Gil, I think that BSC is possibly my
> favourite GT album - Regenisraen is one of Scott's prettiest songs and I
> love the little production touches especially on this track which sound
> a bit Page/Plant to me. Some of the synth sounds a little, um, of its
> time now, but in a way that adds to its charm. Crash Into June, Here It
> Is Tomorrow, Where You Going Northern, Like A Girl Jesus (Scott at his
> wistful best although that reverb or echo on the drums is a bit OTT!),
> even the slightly more minor songs like The Only Lesson Learned have
> lovely little melodies hidden away.
My problem with BSC is that I can never remember half the tracks in its
last half. "Book of Millionaires"? "Leilani"? I remember the *titles* and
that's all...
> Gil says:
>
> >BSC was recorded and mixed in about
> 2 weeks in the middle of a tour!
>
> Which is exactly how records *ought* to be made! I think there should
> be a rule that if it took longer than 2 weeks to record there should
> something like one of those Parental Advisory Warnings on the cover -
> "This album took 2 years and a gazillion dollars to produce - please be
> advised that it is bollocks".
Well, I sort of know what you mean - what exactly do Peter Gabriel, Kate
Bush, and their ilk *do* during the decade they're "working" on an album?
- - but I think two weeks in the middle of a tour is a little to the other
extreme.
Sharples could chime in now, if his access problems have cleared up. Or
dmw, or anyone else who's actually recorded music...
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::Californians invented the concept of the life-style.
::This alone warrants their doom.
__Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:54:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: The Dean / BSC thoughts
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 phil.gerrard@ntlworld.com wrote:
> Jeff wrote re Christgau:
>
> > See, this is the kind of review that gives me problems. Except for a
> > vague statement about Reed's guitar, the review gives me *no freakin'
> > idea* what this record might sound like.
>
> In Christgau's defence, I would have thought that there's not much need
> to explain to his readers what a Lou Reed album sounds like unless that
> album was a major stylistic departure - you pretty much know what to
> expect.
Oh, I disagree. Reed gets less credit for musical variety than he
deserves. In my ongoing "let's listen to elderly tapes I haven't listened
to for ages, while driving to and from work in my car" campaign, I
recently re-listened to _Rock & Roll Heart_ and _Street Hassle_. Okay, the
first one is utterly dire and sounds like Lou was barely awake during the
entire process of writing, arranging, and performing - but with its horns,
cheesy keys, and sometimes rather bizarre sonic effects, it's quite
different from yr standard two-guitars-bass-drums Lou backup. There's
even an *instrumental*, forchrissakes. (It sucks, but hey.) _Street
Hassle_'s a bit more successful as an album - some better songs - but
again, there's some odd production and arranging that one wouldn't expect,
like the cellos on its title track.
Or more recently, _Set the Twilight Reeling_ had some curious horn parts.
And, uh, there was _Metal Machine Music_.
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::pushing the pencil not the envelope::
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:56:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] lots-o-things
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Gil Ray wrote:
> Speaking of Eric Clapton, I had the first solo lp,
> but Mitch Easter reintroduced me to the song Easy Now.
> It is downright beautiful. And very sexy.
Ah yes - thank you for reminding me of this song. I'd forgotten that
Clapton *could* quieten down and still be viable and energetic (in a
different way, of course).
Actually, this is another song I can hear Scott covering...
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::You think your country needs you, but you know it never will::
__Elvis Costello__
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:02:37 -0400
From: Dan Sallitt
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] CD backlash, Deep Discount
> >Maybe y'all know about this already, but: there's a site called MySimon
> >(http://www.mysimon.com) that purports to compare the prices of various
> >music vendors on the net. I'm starting to think that MySimon is really
> >a scam to get people to buy from a place called Deep Discount CDs. Not
> >only does Deep Discount always have the lowest prices on MySimon, but
> >there's always a $2 discount for people who come to Deep Discount via
> >the MySimon web site - if you go straight to Deep Discount, you don't
> >get the same low price. I wonder if this is illegal somehow.
>
> In what way?
Well, I was thinking that MySimon purports to be an objective consumer
aid, while in fact they are entering into deals with some of the
companies they are evaluating, and those deals change the actual
consumer evaluations. Probably not illegal.
I didn't look closely enough at MySimon to see that it prices a lot of
things besides music, so obviously its sole function isn't to shill for
Deep Discount.
- - Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:08:59 +0000
From:
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: The Dean / BSC thoughts
Jeff wrote:
> Oh, I disagree. Reed gets less credit for musical variety than he
> deserves. In my ongoing "let's listen to elderly tapes I haven't
> listened to for ages, while driving to and from work in my car"
> campaign, I recently re-listened to _Rock & Roll Heart_ and _Street
> Hassle_. Okay, the first one is utterly dire and sounds like Lou was
> barely awake during the entire process of writing, arranging, and
> performing - but with its horns, cheesy keys, and sometimes rather
> bizarre sonic effects, it's quite different from yr standard
> two-guitars-bass-drums Lou backup. There's even an *instrumental*,
> forchrissakes. (It sucks, but hey.) _Street Hassle_'s a bit more
> successful as an album - some better songs - but again, there's some odd
> production and arranging that one wouldn't expect, like the cellos on
> its title track.
Ah, you see, I kind of blank when it comes to '70s Lou - or at the very least I buy into the Lester Bangs myth of poor, addled Lou having had next to no musical input into his albums, ie that they're basically the work of session hacks with Lou doing little more than providing the original chord progressions and adding his vocals when Wille Weeks, Andy Newmark, etc had done their bit. How true this is is don't know - but it's true that Lou didn't even play guitar on his solo records until what, about '78?
But yeah, on reflection you're right - there is more musical variation in Lou's output than people (including myself) give him credit for. However, albums like 'Rock & Roll Heart', 'The Bells', and 'Growing Up in Public', which did represent a musical stretch of sorts, and where one assumes Lou had a reasonable amount of input, are well-intentioned failures IMHO, and I guess that means that I feel they somehow don't count - which, yes, is a somewhat blinkered and maybe unfair view.
> Or more recently, _Set the Twilight Reeling_ had some curious horn
> parts. And, uh, there was _Metal Machine Music_.
Mmm. I'm not as convinced by this - the horn parts are kinda superfluous on 'Set the Twilight Reeling', and yep, 'MMM', if it's not read as a hilarious 'fuck you', is pretty much a reductio ad absurdium of a lot of the Velvets' early work. I also think that the cellos on 'Street Hassle' - one of Lou's best '70s works, I think - kind of hark back to the VU, although that's stretching a point as the sound is more Bernard Herrmann than John Cale. Interesting that Lou should prefigure the whole Scarpantoni/college/alt-rock cello thing by the best part of a decade as well...
And what the fuck was 'stereo binaural sound' anyway?
peace & love
phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:10:20 EDT
From: DOUDIE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] CD backlash
In a message dated 8/20/02 10:08:57 PM, zoom@muppetlabs.com writes:
<< I'm reminded of the "NUGE" rating system pioneered by Jesse Fuchs, who
really was, when he cared to be, one of the most amazing rock critics under
thirty in this nation. To wit:
N: I'd buy it NEW
U: I'd buy it USED
G: I'd take it if it was GIVEN to me
E: It's EVIL and it must be destroyed
How bizarre it is to suddenly read about Jesse on the Loud Family list,
though I did know that Andy was aware of his writing. Anyway, for you New
York Loud Family fans, Jesse group the Denver Zest which features Tris McCall
on synthesizer and backing vocals, plays regularly in New York. They are a
real treasure, as progressive as teen punk can get. Their next show is at
Desmond's (Park Ave between 29th and 30th) on Friday (Aug. 23Z) at 9. Anyone
interested in their records (they have two) should write Tris at
generica@hotmail.com.
Cheers,
Steve Matrick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:08:48 EDT
From: Boyof100lists@aol.com
Subject: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
I was out with my friend Stephanie yesterday and she was telling me about
something that happened to her the other day. Stephanie is somewhat
sensitive to "the invisible world" if you will (she's told me about other
events that have happened to her over the years I've known her), and
sometimes it scares her. She told me that she had downloaded a Jeff Buckley
song, "The Last Goodbye," and while she was listening to it, she got the
feeling of being submerged in water, of vastness, and being cold. She said
that the music should have been a peaceful experience, (I don't know the song
myself) but it disturbed her. She had no idea of his death, and found out a
couple of days later after hearing the song that Jeff Buckley had drowned in
December, 1997. She said that when she found this out, she was so freaked
she was shaking. Is there a paranormal term for this, this kind of
knowledge? I've seen people on television shows on the paranormal who can
look at photos of people and know whether they are dead or not, or know
things about the person in the photo. I would think a song would be just as
much of a soul connection with a person as a photo. Where would be a good
place on the web to look for info about such things?
- -Mark Staples, who noticed the Hummer ad on the back of the latest National
Geographic looks awfully similar to the artwork for "Days for Days"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:33:26 -0400
From: "Aaron Milenski"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
>She told me that she had downloaded a Jeff Buckley
>song, "The Last Goodbye," and while she was listening to it, she got the
>feeling of being submerged in water, of vastness, and being cold. She said
>that the music should have been a peaceful experience, (I don't know the
>song
>myself) but it disturbed her. She had no idea of his death, and found out
>a
>couple of days later after hearing the song that Jeff Buckley had drowned
>in
>December, 1997. She said that when she found this out, she was so freaked
>she was shaking. Is there a paranormal term for this, this kind of
>knowledge? I've seen people on television shows on the paranormal who can
>look at photos of people and know whether they are dead or not, or know
>things about the person in the photo. I would think a song would be just
>as
>much of a soul connection with a person as a photo. Where would be a good
>place on the web to look for info about such things?
A lot of psychologists believe in a collective unconscious. For years, my
sister had dreams about a weird-looking house, and when in her late teens
she moved to Minneapolis she was driving down the street and saw the house.
But, let me be skeptical and suggest another possibilty--that what we think
are paranormal-type occurences are not. For example, your friend may have
heard about Buckley's death years ago and completely forgotten about it and
forgotten who he was, and she "remembered" in this way. My sister, years
later, suggested the possibility that this house looked a little like the
one in her dream but she "saw" it as exactly that house because her brain
wanted her to, when in reality there's no way to remember exactly what was
in her dream.
Aaron, who sometimes has a hard time knowing for sure if some of my
"memories" were dreams, and if so how long ago I had them.
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:41:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote:
> >She told me that she had downloaded a Jeff Buckley >song, "The Last
> Goodbye," and while she was listening to it, she got the >feeling of
> being submerged in water, of vastness, and being cold. She had no idea
> of his death, and found out >a >couple of days later after hearing the
> song that Jeff Buckley had drowned >in >December, 1997.
> But, let me be skeptical and suggest another possibilty--that what we think
> are paranormal-type occurences are not. For example, your friend may have
> heard about Buckley's death years ago and completely forgotten about it and
> forgotten who he was, and she "remembered" in this way. My sister, years
> later, suggested the possibility that this house looked a little like the
> one in her dream but she "saw" it as exactly that house because her brain
> wanted her to, when in reality there's no way to remember exactly what was
> in her dream.
Memory is notoriously unreliable, particularly when shaded and formed by
current event, particularly those w/strong emotional content. Perception
in general is rather less reliable than we like to think, strongly
influenced by what we *think* we should perceive.
And of course, her feeling also could have been a coincindence...one among
many, but notable because she *then* found out something that made "sense"
of her feeling.
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, generally highly skeptical regarding
"paranormal"
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::crumple zones:::::harmful or fatal if swallowed:::::small-craft warning::
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:54:44 -0400
From: "Aaron Milenski"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
Jeff says:
>And of course, her feeling also could have been a coincindence...one among
>many, but notable because she *then* found out something that made "sense"
>of her feeling.
I think we tend to overestimate the value of coinicidence in our lives.
Think about it this way--Most people think that a "million-to-one shot" is a
very unlikely coincidence. But how long to you have to go about your daily
life until a million insignificant things happen? Isn't one of them likely
to be a million-to-one shot?
Aaron
n.p. Linda Perhacs: PARALLELOGRAMS. Never mind the paranormal. THIS is
freaky.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:25:55 -0700
From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com
Subject: [loud-fans] Recording time
>Well, I sort of know what you mean - what exactly do Peter Gabriel, Kate
>Bush, and their ilk *do* during the decade they're "working" on an album?
>- but I think two weeks in the middle of a tour is a little to the other
>extreme.
>Sharples could chime in now, if his access problems have cleared up. Or
>dmw, or anyone else who's actually recorded music...
As someone who has made an album in one day, and is about to release an album
that took seven years to make, I'm probably uniquely qualified to say: it
depends.
Two weeks is plenty of time to create a straightforward document of a
well-rehearsed rock band's live performance. In genres that require less
massaging, such as jazz or folk, you can often do it in an afternoon. Of course,
that only counts the recording; presumably a lot of time is spent outside the
studio, composing, practicing, and gigging.
If, on the other hand, you're going to play studio auteur and create an album
with only a distant relationship to live performance and/or "natural" sound, it
takes longer. A lot longer. There are obviously many intermediate approaches as
well. I think excellent work can be done on any point of this continuum, but
it's important to pick the right approach for the material.
It so happens that the engineer for a major-label record is currently posting a
deeply cynical but entertaining diary of the proceedings here:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
I've read enough of this guy's stuff to know not to take everything he says at
face value, but the complete dysfunctionality of this session is credible.
Suffice it to say that after three weeks they have yet to finish a song.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:52:31 -0400
From: Dave Walker
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 01:54 PM, Aaron Milenski wrote:
> I think we tend to overestimate the value of coinicidence in our
> lives. Think about it this way--Most people think that a
> "million-to-one shot" is a very unlikely coincidence. But how long to
> you have to go about your daily life until a million insignificant
> things happen? Isn't one of them likely to be a million-to-one shot?
Bingo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/magazine/11COINCIDENCE.html
-d.w.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:07:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Dave Walker wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 01:54 PM, Aaron Milenski wrote:
>
> > I think we tend to overestimate the value of coinicidence in our
> > lives. Think about it this way--Most people think that a
> > "million-to-one shot" is a very unlikely coincidence. But how long to
> > you have to go about your daily life until a million insignificant
> > things happen? Isn't one of them likely to be a million-to-one shot?
>
> Bingo:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/magazine/11COINCIDENCE.html
Wow - what a coincidence that this very article should have appeared
within a week or so of this post!
Oh.
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave.
::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving!
__Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__
np: Savage Republic _Jamahariya_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:22:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Dave Walker wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/magazine/11COINCIDENCE.html
I notice they interview some writer named Squire Rushnell, who, "in the
interest of marketing" spells his first name SQuire.
I didn't know "marketing" had concluded that people like to read books by
nutballs. (I shouldn't be surprised, though...)
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::"In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis -
:: this is nothing new," said the priest.
np: The Witches _Universal Mall_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:42:28 -0600
From: "Roger Winston"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey on 8/21/2002 8:22:24 AM wrote:
> I notice they interview some writer named Squire Rushnell, who, "in the
> interest of marketing" spells his first name SQuire.
Gad, that's as pretentious as spelling your name in all lower case.
> I didn't know "marketing" had concluded that people like to read books by
> nutballs. (I shouldn't be surprised, though...)
Who is this "marketing" person, and why does he/she have so much control over our lives?
Say what you will, but from now on when you see the name "SQuire", you'll know it's THAT Squire. Not that you see that many people with the name Squire. Outside of the SCA, that is.
Latre. --rog
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:52:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: dmw
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Roger Winston wrote:
> Say what you will, but from now on when you see the name "SQuire", you'll know it's THAT Squire. Not that you see that many people with the name Squire. Outside of the SCA, that is.
omiGAWD! just the other day i was kvetching about some nutbar from the
SCA, and now ROg mentions them! what a coincidence!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:01:40 -0400
From: Stewart Mason
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] truth is stranger than fiction
At 03:52 PM 8/21/2002 -0400, dmw wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Roger Winston wrote:
>
>> Say what you will, but from now on when you see the name "SQuire",
you'll know it's THAT Squire. Not that you see that many people with the
name Squire. Outside of the SCA, that is.
>
>omiGAWD! just the other day i was kvetching about some nutbar from the
>SCA, and now ROg mentions them! what a coincidence!!!
And oh WOW, I live next door to some SCA people! What's the paranormal
term for this phenomenon?
STewart
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:59:44 -0400
From: "glenn mcdonald"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
> http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him by the end of
day 1.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Fleming
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] IBC/Uncle Lucky
WOW....someone else feels that way too! :)
- --- Chris Murtland wrote:
> my manic ecstasy during IBC worship.
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:16:40 -0400
From: Stewart Mason
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
At 03:59 PM 8/21/2002 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote:
>> http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
>
>Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him by the end of
>day 1.
He's certainly on the abrasive side, but even allowing for bias and
exaggeration, he's clearly working with some Class A idjits here, so I do
tend to sympathize. Is there a pool going on as to who this guy is (I'm
thinking he's one of the Lord-Alge brothers for some reason) and who he's
working with?
S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:51:18 -0500
From: "Keegstra, Russell"
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Recording time
Tim/glenn:
>> http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
>Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him
>by the end of day 1.
Yeah, I wanted to take the whole lot of them (including Our
Hero MIxerman) and drop them in the Australian Outback or
somewhere like that just to see who gets eaten first.
Oh, I once knew a guy who once mentioned something about the
SCA. What a coincidence.
Russ
np: Amy Rigby, Middlescene thanks to Miles' Miles of Music heads up
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:52:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: [loud-fans] recording diary, plus part of an old thread
Reading about the painful cutting & splicing our engineer guy went
through, it occurs to me that forty years ago - hell, even twenty, with
most bands - all of that time and money wouldn't have been spent. They
just would have hired a drummer who could actually play to do the tracks.
But of course, "the band" has to be the band - even if it's painfully
obvious that, in order to be a good band, they need (at least) a new
drummer.
*sigh*...
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::To be the center of the universe, don't orbit things::
__Scott Miller__
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:37:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Stewart Mason wrote:
> At 03:59 PM 8/21/2002 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote:
> >> http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
> >
> >Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him by the end of
> >day 1.
>
> He's certainly on the abrasive side, but even allowing for bias and
> exaggeration, he's clearly working with some Class A idjits here, so I do
> tend to sympathize.
Plus, he *is* trying to do a job...something that can only dubiously be
said of the other dramatis personae.
I liked this phrase: "Money that does not currently exist is the single
most destructive entity in this business" (referring to speculation,
arguments, etc. about earnings and so forth that are strictly
hypothetical, which will exist only if the record does very well).
I'm wondering who these guys are too...
- --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::[clever or pithy quote]::
__[source of quote]__
np: Pere Ubu _Ray-Gun Suitcase_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:40:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
> >> http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
And isn't this the punchline to a joke? "I got on the talkback and told
the band that take was really good, and told them they should do another
just like that."
At least, I think a line like that was made vicious play with at the
Steely Dan site...
- --Jeff
J e f f r e y N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::I can bellow like a clown school drill instructor::
__Brian Block__
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:30:41 -0700
From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
>Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him by the end of
>day 1.
Not by me. I think he's a sack of shit. But I thought that well before he
started keeping this diary, for reasons that wouldn't necessarily concern anyone
else and that are subject to bias, so I thought it would be better for people to
make up their own minds.
Regardless of anything else, putting all this stuff on the Internet while the
session is still in progress (as he claims, although I don't necessarily believe
him) is pretty tacky.
But I find the analysis of this particular slice of music-industry
fucked-up-ness all the more fascinating because the writer has no idea how much
a part of the problem he is--which, I admit, is questionable taste on my part.
I'm reluctant to reveal the identity of someone who chooses to be anonymous, but
I will say that he's not a Lord-Alge.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:44:40 -0400
From: jenny grover
Subject: [loud-fans] mitch easter interview
Here's a link to a nice Mitch Easter interview, part 1 of a story on the
20th anniversary of Chronic Town:
http://www.murmurs.com/rem/newsstand/story.php?contentid=127
Jen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:19:42 -0400
From: "Paul King"
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
From: "glenn mcdonald"
To: ,
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Recording time
Date sent: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:59:44 -0400
> > http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/week1/mm.php
>
> Are we supposed to sympathize with this mixer guy? I hated him by the end of day
> 1.
I think he is only un-likeable in that we are allowed to know
what he is thinking. Would we all not hate each other if we
could read each other's mind?
If you allow for that, I think he does try to be diplomatic.
He is not perfect, but I think he does his best.
Also, consider what kind of people he is working with.
PJK
===========================================
Paul King
Oakville, ON
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:38:28 -0400
From: Dana Paoli
Subject: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns)
A long time ago, someone said:
4. DVD-A players will be cheaper faster than SACD players, because the
technology is much more standard.
Now, there are a lot of smart people at Sony who think they can sell
SACD, and
they may well know something I don't. But I think that anyone who plunks
down
big bucks for an SACD player anytime soon runs a very real risk of it
being a
boat anchor in a few years. (The same is true, to a lesser extent, for
DVD-A;
it's quite possible that neither will excite the general public.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So it looks like the SACD folk have made a few smart moves:
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069628
(SACD players have gotten cheap, and the Rolling Stones' catalog comes
out in SACD in a few days, and the CDs are dual layer so you can also
play them in your regular CD player, *and* there are reasons to buy the
new remasters even if you don't have SACD)
Anyone heard a more negative spin on things? It sounds like a good
start, anyway, but I don't keep up with audio gossip.
- --dana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:57:16 -0400
From: "Larry Tucker"
Subject: RE: [loud-fans] mitch easter interview
- -----Original Message-----
From: jenny grover [mailto:sleeveless@citynet.net]
Sent: Wed 8/21/2002 6:44 PM
To: loud-fans; Russell Fox
Cc:
Subject: [loud-fans] mitch easter interview
Here's a link to a nice Mitch Easter interview, part 1 of a story on the
20th anniversary of Chronic Town:
http://www.murmurs.com/rem/newsstand/story.php?contentid=127
Jen
And with an uncredited photo I took in 1983 at a show in Raleigh.
Anyone caring to see more can look here.
http://www.mitchworldusa.net/Pics.html
- -Larry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:15:14 -0400
From: Dave Walker
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Like a Rolling SACD (ns)
On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 08:38 PM, Dana Paoli wrote:
> Anyone heard a more negative spin on things? It sounds like a good
> start, anyway, but I don't keep up with audio gossip.
Only that the industry that sold people on CD with the slogan
"Perfect Sound Forever" are going to have a helluva time selling
them their music for a _third_ time by saying "It's even more
perfect this time", especially while building in copy protection,
considering that a vanishingly small number of people have
the ears / equipment / listening environment to appreciate
these "even more perfect than last time" recordings.
Despite the weaknesses of first-generation CD technology
(the nasty early mastering jobs, etc.), they provided some
clear advantages over the medium they were replacing
(durability, programmability) for even the average
consumer. SACD / DVD-A are a much harder sell.
-d.w.
------------------------------
End of loud-fans-digest V2 #293
*******************************