From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #277 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 277 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] borscht (ns) [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypopotamus, but you might be an ignorant sunuvagun ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the new economy (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Stretch Marks [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] You're not a rule, but you might be an exception [Carolyn] Re: [loud-fans] You're not a rule, but you might be an exception [Carolyn] [loud-fans] critical hippos on skates [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] borscht (ns) Phil Fleming wrote: > > Dr Pepper Red???? > Do tell Do Tell DO TELL > > My name is Phil F. and I'm a pepper too!!! > > NP.... the fan in the background It's called Red Fusion. I just got some yesterday. It's out in 2 liter bottles now, as well as the little ones. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:10:13 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypopotamus, but you might be an ignorant sunuvagun > Next thing you know, someone will be telling us we shouldn't patronize > garage sales. or pee during commercials. those bastages. damn 'em all, i say. this stream of consciousness e-mail brought to you be the color puce and the letter zzzzz.... - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:20:12 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypopotamus, but you might be an ignorant sunuvagun in case you were all wondering, a 'hypopotamus' is an underground river. or more accurately, a thing with a tendency toward rivers that exists underground. or it would be if it were a word. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "me" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypopotamus, but you might be an ignorant sunuvagun > > Next thing you know, someone will be telling us we shouldn't patronize > > garage sales. > > or pee during commercials. > > those bastages. damn 'em all, i say. > > this stream of consciousness e-mail brought to you be the color puce and the > letter zzzzz.... > -- > "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." > -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:26:22 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) > Actually, there are at least a few unemployed, undernourished, and > underpaid folks here, and some students. I'm on a tight budget, > which > is well in the red right now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of instituting the abbreviation "JID" which stands for "Jenny is different" after any statement about *average* anything, just to affirm that Jenny is the exception to all rules. The above to be read in a "joshing" sort of way, as opposed to a "mean" sort of way. I think that I've finally parsed "You're coming at it completely ass-backward -- trying to convince people that something is wrong by pointing out that it wouldn't inconvenience them much to act asif they *did* think it were wrong." I don't know that that's my intent. Let's put it this way: have you ever had a conversation with a twelve year old rich kid who wants to explain to you that it's a very complex, fascinating question as to whether he should be allowed to smoke pot and skateboard on the ramp that leads to the emergency room? And who then reveals, via a ten-minute, well-reasoned argument, that he's actually benefiting patient care *and* the hospital's bottom line by doing so? And you know how at some point you start to wonder if maybe you should just have Security kick his ass? Ok, now substitute the Digital Millennium Copyright Act for Security, and close your eyes. Music Content: There's not enough new songs on the new Clientele CD, but one of them may be the best thing they've ever done. It won't convince the unconvinced, though. BTW, that song was available as a free and legal download from epitonic.com the last time I checked, if I'm remembering right. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:36:14 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? Is it really any different selling a used CD than a used book? I've never heard it asserted that it might be illegal or unethical to sell used books, including promotional copies of book that were handed out free to reviewers (though, I must say, I have never seen a book stamped as being a promotional copy, or that is remains property of the publisher), or even library books, many of which might have been donated. (In this case, the library is making a profit off something they didn't buy that someone else did, as are charity thrift stores). Is it unethical to pay some poor bugger the $1.00 he asks for a collectible piece of vinyl, and then turn around and sell it to someone else for $60? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:31:54 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? At 07:36 PM 8/13/02 -0400, jenny grover wrote: >Is it really any different selling a used CD than a used book? I've >never heard it asserted that it might be illegal or unethical to sell >used books, including promotional copies of book that were handed out >free to reviewers (though, I must say, I have never seen a book stamped >as being a promotional copy, or that is remains property of the >publisher), or even library books, many of which might have been >donated. (In this case, the library is making a profit off something >they didn't buy that someone else did, as are charity thrift stores). There are three ways that promotional copies are handled in the publishing business: 1) Uncorrected proofs ("galleys") are sent out as readers' copies; 2) Special "advance readers' copies" are produced--usually with different jacket design/art; 3) Copies of the first edition are sent out gratis to booksellers or reviewers. I've never heard anybody make much of a fuss about used book sellers handling any of the above-mentioned. >Is it unethical to pay some poor bugger the $1.00 he asks for a >collectible piece of vinyl, and then turn around and sell it to someone >else for $60? No more than it's unethical to turn a profit on anything you've purchased, IMO. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Tarry at Jericho until your beards be grown. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Second Book of Samuel_, chapter 10, verse 5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:43:58 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be acheapskate (ns) Dana Paoli wrote: > > > Actually, there are at least a few unemployed, undernourished, and > > underpaid folks here, and some students. I'm on a tight budget, > > which > > is well in the red right now > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I'm thinking of instituting the abbreviation "JID" which stands for > "Jenny is different" after any statement about *average* anything, just > to affirm that Jenny is the exception to all rules. > > The above to be read in a "joshing" sort of way, as opposed to a "mean" > sort of way. I should hope so. And it's not just me. I wouldn't want to name names, so as not to embarrass people, but a number of folks here really are unemployed and/or on tight budgets. I don't know what the technical average income is on here (nor do I particularly care). But, yes, it really might be too much to ask of some Loud-fans to fork over full price for every release they want. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:49:53 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? > Is it unethical to pay some poor bugger the $1.00 he asks for a > collectible piece of vinyl, and then turn around and sell it to someone > else for $60? from one point of view, this would be considered a 'finder's fee' or a 'shopper's fee', but only if i had asked you to go out and find me something. usually. to the poor bugger, maybe it's only worth $1. or maybe i'm the poor bugger and the vinyl has history for me, so it's worth so much i wouldn't ever sell it. and there's the ethics thing - if someone has a chair that you know is worth $2000, and they think it's just an old piece of junk, do you tell them, or buy it for $5 at their garage sale? or do you buy it, load it in the car, get in, start the engine, and yell, "you just missed $1995, you idiot!" as you drive away? it's all relative. is it a big store that doesn't care about indie music, or a one man operation that could really benefit from the knowledge and the extra $20? and if they know it's worth money, are they then more likely to try to get it in when they can, in which case it'll be available to you more often, albeit for more money? and by the way, even with a currently decent income, after six months of rocky employment at a very low rate in crappy retail job, my decent income is all tied up in drawn out expenses. and my job could fall out from under me in January. and my SO hasn't worked at all for 3 months. so i'll vote as one of those shoe-string budget people. nights out and cds and other non-essentials require a lot of pre-planning and sacrifice for us. i buy used or not at all these days. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jenny grover" Cc: "I've never had salt flats for breakfast before..." Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? > Is it really any different selling a used CD than a used book? I've > never heard it asserted that it might be illegal or unethical to sell > used books, including promotional copies of book that were handed out > free to reviewers (though, I must say, I have never seen a book stamped > as being a promotional copy, or that is remains property of the > publisher), or even library books, many of which might have been > donated. (In this case, the library is making a profit off something > they didn't buy that someone else did, as are charity thrift stores). > > > Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:15:35 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) At Tuesday 8/13/2002 05:37 PM -0400, Dana Paoli wrote: >Is there any slim chance that the members of loud-fans (who, I'd be >willing to bet, have an average income far higher than the national >average) could stop putting so much effort and mental gyrations into >trying to save a few bucks on the new Yes CD and just pay the freaking >retail price? Is that really too much to ask?? But every dollar saved buying used over new is another dollar I can throw into the "hiring a high-class hooker for New Year's Eve" pot. You gotta have your priorities. Oh wait - is that illegal? No one wants to show up on JohnsTV: http://www.denvergov.org/johnstv/default.asp And whatever happened to the money we were collectively saving to buy Andy a RealDoll? In reality, the only reason I buy used over new is because I hate trying to remove those damn top-spine labels. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:21:28 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] Stretch Princess Psst, Jer, how great is this?! It's like an upbeat Sleeper album! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:23:06 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the new economy (ns) There are three ways that promotional copies are handled in the publishing business: 1) Uncorrected proofs ("galleys") are sent out as readers' copies; 2) Special "advance readers' copies" are produced--usually with different jacket design/art; 3) Copies of the first edition are sent out gratis to booksellers or reviewers. I've never heard anybody make much of a fuss about used book sellers handling any of the above-mentioned. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't speak outside of my personal experience, but my first five years in the city were spent working in the catalog department of New York's famous Strand bookstore, and I can say as an absolute fact that fusses were made, though in vain. Don't mess with Mr. Bass. Wow, I miss that place. Except for my salary there. Anyone on this list familiar with the poems of Thomas Weatherly, by any chance (readers of BAD may have encountered his work)? Some of my fondest memories are of him arguing with my boss about postage-related matters. Oh, and the day that Morrissey came shopping and we all freaked out (me too, and I never would have expected that). And the day that Michael Jackson went shopping in the children's section. Ah, memories... Anyways, it doesn't seem appropriate to compare books w/CDs, as books are generally read once. Except by Jenny. And as for folks who are on the list who are unemployed/on tight budgets, I'm sure there are some, but you don't get to count college students or out-of-work web designers who were planning to ride the New Economy to millionaire status. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:24:57 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) that rocks - the johns site. i wonder if any other cities are doing that. what i love is that it removes the anonymity of these guys. mind you, i don't have any particular beef with prostitution (no pun intended), i just like the irony. but i'm in a cynical, grumpy, migraine-y mood today. so watch out or i'll run Roger over with my non-eistant humm-vee. ;) - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Winston" > Oh wait - is that illegal? > No one wants to show up on JohnsTV: > http://www.denvergov.org/johnstv/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:29:54 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] You may be bankrupt, but you get to keep your tv (ns) Since even the poorest of the poor usually have a tv, all the starving loud-fans sitting in their shotgun shacks and drinking hooch might be interested in tonight's late night lineup. And You Will Know Us I'm Sick of Typing Your Long Cool-Ass Name are on Letterman and They Might Be Giants are on Conan. I never know if these things are reruns; there's a page that tells you somewhere... - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:03:19 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the neweconomy (ns) Dana Paoli wrote: > > Anyways, it doesn't seem appropriate to compare books w/CDs, as books are > generally read once. Except by Jenny. I don't see what relevance that has. How many times one reads a book, or listens to a CD, for that matter (and I'm betting a lot of the used ones only were listened to once by the original owner). And if one does only read it once, then there is more potential for the same book to be resold over and over again. The ethics in question are whether or not it is wrong to buy an item used, if buying it new is more beneficial to the artist who produced it. If I buy a used novel, the writer won't get the royalties he/she would get if I bought it new. Same as the CD issue. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:54:30 -0400 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) on 8/13/02 8:15 PM, Roger Winston at rwinston@tde.com wrote: >In reality, the only reason I buy used over new is because I hate trying to >remove those damn top-spine labels. I'm curious-what is the best way to open them? I end up using a kitchen knife because I usually break a fingernail trying to get them open. I'm happy at the record store when they sell me a full price cd that's already been played because it means I don't have to deal with the super sticky and hard to open spine. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:57:51 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You may be bankrupt, but you get to keep your tv (ns) At Tuesday 8/13/2002 08:29 PM -0400, Dana Paoli wrote: >Since even the poorest of the poor usually have a tv, But does it have a digital tuner? >all the starving >loud-fans sitting in their shotgun shacks and drinking hooch might be >interested in tonight's late night lineup. And You Will Know Us I'm Sick >of Typing Your Long Cool-Ass Name are on Letterman and They Might Be >Giants are on Conan. I never know if these things are reruns; Yes on the first, no on the second. >there's a page that tells you somewhere... http://www.interbridge.com/lineups.html Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:05:50 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the neweconomy (ns) The ethics in question are whether or not it is wrong to buy an item used, if buying it new is more beneficial to the artist who produced it. If I buy a used novel, the writer won't get the royalties he/she would get if I bought it new. Same as the CD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, no, no. The ethics in question were whether out-of-work musicians and web designers should just get real jobs and start paying for things, so that the rest of us don't get reamed by over reactive legislators. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:31:39 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the neweconomy (ns) > No, no, no. The ethics in question were whether out-of-work musicians > and web designers should just get real jobs and start paying for things, > so that the rest of us don't get reamed by over reactive legislators. trying not to be grumpy.... but that's the second snipe in an hour directed at the web designers on the list. i am considered a web designer, although i actually do about 3 jobs, which ARE my real job, thank you, and i bust my ass for it. and in a few weeks, i will be busting my ass for more hours than ever, as i'm going to be busting the asses of a few new hires in addition to my own. (sue, your dreams are about to be answered, although i can't say more now.) ya know, if your slice of the economy got fuxored, i wouldn't sit around saying, "oh well, your job is goofy and over paid anyhow, so you deserve what you got." i didn't make millions. i got an ESPP plan, and my stock plummeted. but i worked for what i could get because of some arcane sense of responsibility and work ethic. i have a number of friends who are still out of work, and it's not for lack of looking. as for paying for things, i pay. out my fucking nose. the cost of living is what kills high tech employees when they're out of work. if you have a $1700 lease and you lose your job, you're screwed no matter which way you turn. and $1700 is a reasonable rent in the bay area, where a lot of that work was. my SO and i pay $3500 a month just in rent+mortgage, because we bought a house right before the shit hit the fan, then i had to come back here so that i could work. we only get $500 of that back through renting out the house in WA becasue we have to keep part of it open to us for when Ed has to work up there. that means that on my salary, the only consistent one right now, we have a grand total of -$700 coming in per month. yeah - negative seven hundred dollars. ed usually manages to fill in the gaps with a few days of contract work, but there is zero wiggle room. i pick up every little side job i can to make ends meet. so don't tell me about getting a real job and paying for things - most of us are doing the best we can and working as fast and as hard as we know how. anyone who wants to see the product of my recent ass-bussting should take a look at namesecure.com sometime before tomorrow and again sometime after tomorrow what the hell over reactive legislators have to do with web designers getting real jobs, i don't know. they sure make it harder for the self-employed to make a living. fuck the new economy. there are no jobs and no money. that's nothing new, unless you begin history 20 years ago. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Paoli" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be a victim of the neweconomy (ns) > The ethics in question are whether or not > it is wrong to buy an item used, if buying it new is more beneficial to > the artist who produced it. If I buy a used novel, the writer won't get > the royalties he/she would get if I bought it new. Same as the CD > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > --dana > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:41:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: > I'm curious-what is the best way to open them? Unhook the bottom hinge of the actual CD case. Flip the front up, so now you've got the front-section and the tray-section of the case connected by the sticky top-spine thing. Slowly twist one half so that the sticky thing peels off the other half. Peel the other half of the sticky thing off with your hands. Snap front cover back on. Most of the time, this works beautifully. Sometimes (maybe once in ten tries) you get a nasty residue, and I've never been able to figure out if that's from pulling too fast, or weather changing the composition of the sticky thing, or what. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:49:04 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be overreacting to a casual comment (ns) if you have a $1700 lease and > you lose > your job, you're screwed no matter which way you turn. and $1700 is > a > reasonable rent in the bay area, where a lot of that work was. my > SO and i > pay $3500 a month just in rent+mortgage, because we bought a house > right > before the shit hit the fan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that getting into specific economic situations is really going to get us anywhere. As I'm sure you'll realize in a day or two, the reference to web-designers wasn't intended as a personal attack on anyone. For the record, though, I've never been in a position to pay a rent of $1700, let alone a $3500 mortgage. And I pay retail for the vast majority of my new music purchases. And you don't even want to know about the plumbing bill that I got yesterday... - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > I don't know that that's my intent. Let's put it this way: have you > ever had a conversation with a twelve year old rich kid who wants to > explain to you that it's a very complex, fascinating question as to > whether he should be allowed to smoke pot and skateboard on the ramp > that leads to the emergency room? So there's this kid doing something he doesn't think is wrong, and you come up and start giving him shit for it, and when he disagrees with you in detail, then he's a self-indulgent brat? "Oh," you say, "but this rich kid IS wrong, isn't he?" Sure, which is why it's a lame analogy for you to introduce. You're basically trying to short-circuit the conversation by saying "You KNOW you're wrong... but what bothers me is how stubborn you're being." Try rewriting your analogy with the kid reading a trashy novel or living a non-vegan lifestyle or something else which is "obviously" wrong to some people, and just as "obviously" a matter of personal choice to others. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:01:44 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheap date (ns) So there's this kid doing something he doesn't think is wrong, and you come up and start giving him shit for it, and when he disagrees with you in detail, then he's a self-indulgent brat? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Aaron, it's clear that we disagree strongly and aren't going to come to terms, which begs the question: why don't we take it off list or drop it. I never bring this subject up anymore, but I reserve the right to respond when others do. The trick with unhinging the bottom corner works for the most part, but when I'm in a hurry I sometimes break the plastic, so be careful. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:03:15 -0400 From: "Francis J H Park" Subject: [loud-fans] Opening jewelboxes with label tops Carolyn rages: | I'm curious-what is the best way to open them? I end up using a kitchen | knife because I usually break a fingernail trying to get them open. I'm The folks at Waterloo Records in Austin TX do something similar to this so that they don't have to take the label off disks you want to preview. I took it and used it to help me take the label completely off. After taking the wrapping off, I used to pry the bottom left flange (the one that didn't have the wraparaound label) just enough off the hinge hole while applying pressure to the bottom right (to release the cover). Then I'd hinge the lid around the label and use the entire lid to pull the label off. Sometimes the label wouldn't come off cleanly, but generally it did. Francis J. H. Park http://home.sprintmail.com/~durandal - -- "Ask for my honesty and you'll have my loyalty. Ask for my loyalty and you'll have my honesty." - COL(Ret) John R. Boyd, USAF (1927-1997) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: me@justanotherfuckin.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheapskate, but you might be overreacting to a casual comment (ns) > the reference to web-designers wasn't intended as a > personal attack on > anyone. oh, i'm sure it wasn't. it was intended to be a generalized attack on a section of our economy/culture. > For the record, though, I've never been in a position > to pay a rent of > $1700, let alone a $3500 mortgage. And I pay retail > for the vast > majority of my new music purchases. you don't always have a choice. unfortunately, it's just plain expensive to live here. when there is work, it pays proportionately well. when there isn't, it sucks disproportionately hard. > And you don't even want to know about the plumbing bill > that I got > yesterday... biting my tongue.... hearing my mother sing-songing about not taking cheap shots, especially when they have to do with poop. b ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:07:09 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be acheapskate (ns) Carolyn Dorsey wrote: > on 8/13/02 8:15 PM, Roger Winston at rwinston@tde.com wrote: > >In reality, the only reason I buy used over new is because I hate trying to > >remove those damn top-spine labels. > > I'm curious-what is the best way to open them? I end up using a kitchen > knife because I usually break a fingernail trying to get them open. I'm > happy at the record store when they sell me a full price cd that's already > been played because it means I don't have to deal with the super sticky and > hard to open spine. The best way to open them is to remove the front of the jewel box, spine top label and all, peel the label off the front, then re-attach the jewel box. This is the best tip I've ever received on loud-fans. I've got a promo copy of Suzanne Vega's SONGS IN RED AND GRAY in front of me, and the label stamp says "this compact disc is the property of the applicable record label, and is being provided for promotional use only. Resale is unlawful, and MAY be punishable under federal and state laws." Emphasis on "MAY". I don't know of any federal or state laws prohibiting the resale of promotional CDs, and until someone shows me an actual law that I'm breaking by buying these things, I'll continue on my personal ethical stance of buying the most amount of music for the least amount of money. And since I'm over 18, not married, and not on parole, I shouldn't have to justify my music spending habits to anyone. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:16:24 -0400 From: Max Germer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' > The Nields - Yesterday's Girl > As with so many tracks here, really strong songwriting and accomplished > harmonies.Groovy early Joni Mitchell meets Aimee Mann vocal sound > with a 'Stipean cry' edge and plangent geetaring. And a good helping of > bracing and enigmatic 'La la la's', to which I am most partial given those > oft intrinsic qualities. Slightly disconcerted by a repeated gtr lick that > never quite becomes the solo from '50 Years After The Fair' of which, if > memory serves (and often it doesn't), it's reminiscent. Great opener. The Nields are represented via 6 degrees (ok, one) twice on this list: they have a copy of (and are mentioned in, right?) Andrea's book, and I snagged their drummer and bassist post-Nields' breakup for my band. I was at a party on Saturday, quite drunk and happy, and playing dj for the masses. I was in a mad dash to find something that would keep the party people partying and grabbed a sampler from my the section of my friend's cd collection marked "samplers". On it I noticed a plethora of great pop from '92 (Jellyfish, the Posies, Fuzzy, et al) and "Erika's World". I put it on out of pride, and the crowd... Um. Well, the crowd nodded their heads and asked the right questions. Then I went back to Prince. Max, buried under paper and more paper (apologies to those who wrote and I owe notes back to). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:16:56 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' In a message dated 8/13/02 10:15:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sparklypop@attbi.com writes: > The Nields are represented via 6 degrees (ok, one) twice on this list: they > have a copy of (and are mentioned in, right?) Andrea's book, and I snagged > their drummer and bassist post-Nields' breakup for my band. > > Yes they are mentioned in my book. Funny aboutn the six degrees. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:17:25 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a rule, but you might be an exception At 07:43 PM 08/13/2002 -0400, jenny grover wrote: >Dana Paoli wrote: >> I'm thinking of instituting the abbreviation "JID" which stands for >> "Jenny is different" after any statement about *average* anything, just >> to affirm that Jenny is the exception to all rules. Please don't institute that. I may be a mere lurker, but those are my initials and I'll get mightily confused. Besides, Jenny frequently has co-exceptions on her side, I would hazard. Jen: >I should hope so. And it's not just me. I wouldn't want to name names, >so as not to embarrass people, but a number of folks here really are >unemployed and/or on tight budgets. I don't know what the technical >average income is on here (nor do I particularly care). But, yes, it >really might be too much to ask of some Loud-fans to fork over full >price for every release they want. Case in point. Our family of three makes do on about $30K take-home/year. Shocking, no? Well, we don't live in California for one, and yes, the income level is almost entirely by choice, for what that's worth. Interestingly, some of the impetus for our modest income is ethical in nature. Anyway, we IDs buy music, books, videos, clothing, furniture, and cars secondhand because they are more affordable. We also feel good about keeping said objects out of the landfills by participating in a reuse economy. I may be the geographic mean of loud-fans, but apparently I'm an exception to the rules posited tonight - high income, substantial free time; negative, negative. Though I suspect here the exceptions are legion, relative to a universe of about 150 people at last count anyway. This used-music conversation ought to be dog-tired but I'm finding it rather intriguing. Too bad I have to work so much at work that I couldn't chime in in a more timely fashion. janet ps - at my workplace we lend out CDs, DVDs, videos and books to people for free; how about that? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:20:57 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a cheap skate, but you might be an expensive flounder (ns) you don't always have a choice. unfortunately, it's just plain expensive to live here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's true: living in Brooklyn I don't know what it's like to be in a place where the cost of living is high. And it wasn't *that* plumbing. It was the main drain line for the kitchen sinks, so calm down. Really fucking expensive though. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:30:02 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stretch Princess At 08:21 PM 8/13/2002 -0400, glenn mcdonald wrote: >Psst, Jer, how great is this?! It's like an upbeat Sleeper album! The comparisons I used included "a less cynical Voice of the Beehive" and "Ivy without the Euro-sophistication jones." On the whole, I think I still like the first album a little better, but they're both keepers. Stewart, feeling very sorry both for Dana and that poor bug that's wedged itself up his ass ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:41:29 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Stretch Marks Stewart, feeling very sorry both for Dana and that poor bug that's wedged itself up his ass >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Stewart, we're having a perfectly interesting discussion that Janet, for christ's sake, finds entertaining, and you have to throw that stinky puff into the ring. Yeeesh. Doesn't matter. I still like you and like your writing, and I hope that you'll forgive me someday for being mean to Sue (or Joe, or dev\null...it all gets so confusing) and for misusing "beg the question" and, uh, for whatever else it was I did. Peace out. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:49:16 -0400 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a rule, but you might be an exception on 8/13/02 10:17 PM, Janet Ingraham Dwyer at janet@simplyliving.org wrote: > > Case in point. Our family of three makes do on about $30K take-home/year. > Shocking, no? Well, we don't live in California for one, and yes, the > income level is almost entirely by choice, for what that's worth. > Interestingly, some of the impetus for our modest income is ethical in > nature. Anyway, we IDs buy music, books, videos, clothing, furniture, and > cars secondhand because they are more affordable. We also feel good about > keeping said objects out of the landfills by participating in a reuse economy. > I have no qualms about hauling things home that I find in the dumpster or trash can. I enjoy trash picking. Just about everything in my house is second hand or I found it on the street. My car is second hand. My favorite clothes are usually ones I found at the resale store(and I work in fashion) Partly I do this because I can be very cheap about certain things and partly because I like not buying alot of new stuff. It's more of a challenge for me to find cast offs and put them to use. And also to share my employment status--right now I am freelancing and I have to say that I would rather have more time than more money. I don't miss the 70 hour work weeks. I work but I work less. Time just seems so precious to me and I love having it. And I make less but I don't have high expenses except for new cds. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:59:19 -0400 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a rule, but you might be an exception I forgot to add that my cats are second hand, too. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:34:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] critical hippos on skates On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Roger Winston wrote: > In reality, the only reason I buy used over new is because I hate trying to > remove those damn top-spine labels. Yeah - what the hell are those supposed to prove again? I mean, if this were Indonesia, or Mauritania, or some other place swamped with pirate CDs pretending to be the real item, then such proof-of-legitimacy might be necessary...but here (unless some of us are typing from said piracy-plagued nations)? Pointless baffle - and while we're at it I'll complain about those anti-theft thingies stuck *inside* the jewelcase you see once in a while. Re Brianna's comment about prostitution: I assume you're talking prostitution per se - because to me the real problem w/street prostitution is its effect on the neighborhoods, not least when bone-ignorant would-be johns start propositioning obvious non-hooking women, people look out their window to see random blowjobs in the alley, etc. etc. But licensed, taxpaying brothels? Better than the unreal notion of trying to eliminate prostitution... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, exercising the libertarian fragment of his persona J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Never drive a car when you're dead:: __Tom Waits__ ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #277 *******************************