From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #276 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 276 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Song question [Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com] Re: [loud-fans] Song question ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Song question [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Song question ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] Song question [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Song question ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Song question [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Sweet [Bill Silvers ] Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' [AWeiss4338@a] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? ["Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com wrote: > Hey, > Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a > song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like > I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you > heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? Is it Stone Roses "She Bangs The Drums"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:24:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com wrote: > Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a > song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded > like I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have > you heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? I searched Google for "have you seen or have you heard" and the Stone Roses turned up halfway down the screen. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:20:39 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question http://www.stoneroses.net/songs/Shebangsthedrums.html Have you seen her have you heard The way she plays there are no words To describe the way I feel How could it ever come to pass She'll be the first she'll be the last To describe the way I feel The way I feel - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: [loud-fans] Song question > Hey, > Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a > song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like > I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you > heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? > > I know I know this one, but I am drawing blanks.... > Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:25:37 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question At 02:18 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com wrote: >Hey, >Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a >song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like >I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you >heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? That would be the immortal "She Bangs the Drums" by the Stone Roses...although I've always heard it as "Have you seen her, have you heard?"" S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:23:19 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question oops. forgot - the band name is The Stone Roses. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "me" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question > http://www.stoneroses.net/songs/Shebangsthedrums.html > > Have you seen her have you heard > The way she plays there are no words > To describe the way I feel > How could it ever come to pass > She'll be the first she'll be the last > To describe the way I feel > The way I feel > -- > "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." > -- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:18 PM > Subject: [loud-fans] Song question > > > > Hey, > > Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a > > song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like > > I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you > > heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? > > > > I know I know this one, but I am drawing blanks.... > > Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I can see that, technically, any acquiring of a CD other than through > purchase or assignation (that is, the label sends you a promo) is wrong in > that in such cases no one sees royalties - including purchasing used CDs. How is that wrong? Why is the purchaser under any obligation to be responsible for how the artist is compensated? If I buy a used car, I don't weep for the lost income of General Motors. Any time anything used is purchased, that's money that does not go directly to the manufacturer (and thus the creators) of that product. If someone wins a car in a raffle, then sells it, is the purchaser guilty of not buying directly from the dealership? We assume that there will be promo copies of our releases for sale somewhere. It's part of the cost of doing business. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:25:05 -0500 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question That has GOT to be it.. I knew I knew it... thanks! "Joseph M. Mallon" To: e.com> Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question Sent by: owner-loud-fans@s moe.org 08/13/02 02:24 PM On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com wrote: > Hey, > Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a > song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like > I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you > heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? Is it Stone Roses "She Bangs The Drums"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:33:15 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sweet >2) 100% FUN - I always assumed the title was a small retort to the ALTERED >BEAST critics It's a reference to Kurt Cobain's suicide note, in which Kurt said something to the effect of not wanting to do music if it isn't 100% fun for him. I think you're right about the ALTERED BEAST critics: it's also inteded as sarcasm--Sweet has often been pretty heavily depressed even though his music tends to sound otherwise to those who don't pay attention. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:33:13 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Song question At 02:18 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com wrote: >Hey, >Perhaps the collective Loud-Fans head can help me out.. I just heard a >song on the radio, sounded really indie-80's guitar popish... sounded like >I should know what it is.. Chorus starts out "Have you seen or have you >heard....." Nice simple melody.... Any ideas?? > >I know I know this one, but I am drawing blanks.... "She Bangs the Drums" by the Stone Roses? Aside from "I Wanna Be Adored," I'm not a fan, but that sounds right, and it's 1989 indie guitar poppish, so there ya go. ("guitar popish" makes me wonder if the Vatican has invented the electric miter and/or the android pope? JPII may be running on some sort of stolen USSR cyborg-octogenarian-premier technology, after all...) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:35:55 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show I am under the impression that this is going to be shown on AMC during their labor day rock movie fest, so if you have cable, you might be able to save your $8 (or whatever). I will probably watch it for curiosity sake, if nothing else Chris > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, me wrote: > >> there's a review here: >> >> http://www.examiner.com/movies/default.jsp?story=X0809ZIGGYw >> >> i was thinking about trying to catch it, but my mind has been changed. > > I saw it the first time it was released, ca. '84-85 (?), and I remember it > being grainy and poorly shot, with dubious musical value. "Cracked > Actor", on the other hand, is hypnotic - what's it like to be a vampire > pop star? David Bowie shows you! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:41:23 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sweet At 03:33 PM 8/13/2002 -0400, Aaron Milenski wrote: >>2) 100% FUN - I always assumed the title was a small retort to the ALTERED >>BEAST critics > >It's a reference to Kurt Cobain's suicide note, in which Kurt said something >to the effect of not wanting to do music if it isn't 100% fun for him. I >think you're right about the ALTERED BEAST critics: it's also inteded as >sarcasm--Sweet has often been pretty heavily depressed even though his music >tends to sound otherwise to those who don't pay attention. I remember an interview after the album came out where he bemoaned the fact that so few people had twigged that the album title was sarcastic. I also vote for 100% FUN as my fave, with GIRLFRIEND, SON OF ALTERED BEAST, ALTERED BEAST and BLUE SKY ON MARS as runners up. I've still never bothered to pick up IN REVERSE, and although I have the two pre-GIRLFRIEND albums, I don't rate them very highly at all. As bad as the production is, the songs aren't exactly a stellar lot, either. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:40:02 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sweet Aaron Milenski wrote: >>2) 100% FUN - I always assumed the title was a small retort to the >>ALTERED BEAST critics > >It's a reference to Kurt Cobain's suicide note, in which Kurt said >something to the effect of not wanting to do music if it isn't 100% fun >for him. Ah. Interesting. > I think you're right about the ALTERED BEAST critics: it's also inteded > as sarcasm--Sweet has often been pretty heavily depressed even though his > music tends to sound otherwise to those who don't pay attention. Thus the lyric of the FM radio "hit" from 100% Fun, "Sick Of Myself," among many others. I started poking around for news about what he was up to. The official site isn't much help- though I see he played SF last Friday and is still on the West Coast prior to a couple of Japan dates- but it did link to an up to date fan site with lots of fresh poop: http://www.matthew-sweet.com/msweet8.html And for an afternoon time-killer, apropos of our which record's better discussion, which Matthew Sweet Album are you? http://frozentruth.deep-ice.com/mstest.html I'm 100% Fun. Heh. b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 Boyof100lists@aol.com wrote: > ***There is one SUV I adore. Remember the Volkswagen Thing? It is > considered the original. I had a roommate at College of Charleston in the > eighties who had one, and he let me borrow it for an afternoon. I drove it > out to the beach and around the historic district and people were screaming > "nice car!" to me in traffic. It was the most fun I've ever had driving. > The salt air blowing on your face driving over the Cooper River Bridge in a > topless VW Thing....sublime. An ex-girlfriend of mine had a VW Thing. Repairs were porhibitively expensive, and the canvas top had rotted through, and the seats were uncomfortable, but it was unique in look and feel. The floor had plugs so that it rained when the top was down, you could open the plugs & drain the water. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:04:49 +0100 From: "md.robbins" Subject: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' Many thanks to Andrea for both the tape and her considered, informative notes. And her perseverence in the face of my woefully tardy communications. So, with the usual brace of malapropisms and 'one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel', on with da verbiage.... The Nields - Yesterday's Girl As with so many tracks here, really strong songwriting and accomplished harmonies.Groovy early Joni Mitchell meets Aimee Mann vocal sound with a 'Stipean cry' edge and plangent geetaring. And a good helping of bracing and enigmatic 'La la la's', to which I am most partial given those oft intrinsic qualities. Slightly disconcerted by a repeated gtr lick that never quite becomes the solo from '50 Years After The Fair' of which, if memory serves (and often it doesn't), it's reminiscent. Great opener. Kirsty MacColl - Mambo De La Luna Not to speak ill of the dead......I hate this track. Sorry. Never liked Ms.MacColl - always found her accent really irritating - you know what pedants some English people are about such things, but I also never heard anything by her that was even mediocre. So her appeal and talent completely eluded me previously but the whole 'middle aged artist resorts to World Musics' thing faintly depresses me. I will heartily endorse the fatwa declared on the next desperate 'has-been' to similarly mess with my own beloved South Asian music or at the very least pelt them with poisonous chapattis should the opportunity ever present itself. (He doesn't really mean that -Ed.) Veruca Salt - Awesome Not only Rack an' Roll but ah laahk it, laahk it, yis ahh dooh. Utterly delightful 'chug a lug' 'kick ass' rockeroony with many elements mightily reminiscent of Game Theory (who?) and as such a surefire winner. If there's some connection don't all shout at once. Bob Mould - Without Kinda redolent of the usual suspects/electro-ambient meisters, but concise! A blindfolded Bob stumbles around an echo chamber and artfully collides with several tolling handbells and a grand piano in this brief instrumental. I hesitate to evoke the image of an unwary Mould pulling too hard on a churchbell rope and suddenly being hoisted up into the belfry with an immediately distant, but reverberating shriek. Bob Dylan - Summer Days Hmm - Bill Haley and the Comets style Rock and Roll with Zimmy now long become embarrassingly Zimmer framed. I was once much devoted to his mid 60s 'oeuvre' but like so many of his contemporaries, his decline has all but transformed even my residual sentimental forbearance into faint contempt. The odd acerbic lyric in here doesn't change my opinion, but by the 3rd listen I loosened up, even if his voice does reek of beyond self parody now. Wherever that is. Teenage Fanclub - I Need Directions Having fully integrated/exhausted the Byrds/Big Star et c. school it looks like they've assimilated some new influences on the instrumentation and harmonies since I last heard 'em: namely of The Association / Strawberry Alarm Clock ilk: it works, but I've always found their overall vocal delivery curiously soul-less and never really swoon as I was once wont to do to their illustrious forbears. I also note the continued use of the 'ham fisted' gtr solo. You can take the man out of the haggis, but not the haggis out of the et c.. (not so much gratuitous stereotyping as availing myself of the rare opportunity to use the word 'haggis' in any context and a possible first in a loudmail.) Jennifer Kimball - Long Way Home A yearning 'spacey folk pop' shuffle, to paraphrase Andrea's notes - great vocal interactions, organ swells and a vibrantly fx-ed lead gtr sound contribute much to this effect. Good song, delivered with an endearing breathiness and a devilish gleam in her eye. Fountains Of Wayne - Amity Gardens Another great song chockablock full of effortless powerpop hookery. I only have the first album - ought to acquire the 2nd if it's all as strong as this. I wonder if that curious influence I could never put my finger on was the poppy XTC, 'cause it seems pretty apparent here. Tori Amos- Strange Little Girl I don't want to imply intentions here, but this isn't quite as sinister as I suspect she might've intended, though it does have an indisputably edgy potency to it and I like it more than I thought I could. Can't remember (if I ever even heard) the original so I don't know how different this version is. I never thought much of the Stranglers or their songwriting so this may be a 'silk purse' style transmogrification, notwithstanding the creepy post-Manzarek keyboard tingletangle. Is a similarly deconstructed/regendered/subverted/whatever version of say, 'Peaches' called for at some point? Laura Nyro - Timer Just fab, though as my taste has so narrowed I find I can only take Ms.Nyro's undeniably soulful vocals in limited amounts these days, particularly when they stray into overly intense multi tracking. That said I haven't had Nyro mania for years so it may be due after this example of her great talent. I can still take what Todd R. purloined from her in vast quantities though, as I did.after hearing this reminder. New Pornographers - Letter From An Occupant Rocking along. Another strong song though not as thoroughly impressive as some previous loudmails had lead me to believe. Vocals occasionally verge too much on the strident for me but the dynamics and the climactic heavy gtr riffing work really well. Just found myself whistling the chorus again after the side finished. Side Two- Dar Williams - I Won't Be Your Yoko Ono [live] Too multi levelled to extrapolate concisely here. Try, try...well... An inspired metaphor as well as a quasi-narrative by/concerning the much maligned, nefarious one and a droll semi-interrogation of that 'Dream Is Over' period. As with so many of the tracks on the tape clever/witty/incisive lyric writing figures strongly. Misses the chance to mention the 'Harrison's chocolate biscuits' contretemps though: but what could you rhyme with 'biscuits' anyway? (Yeah all right - 'risk it' for a start...) (For 'biscuits' read 'cookies'..-Ed) The spoken intro concerning the pitfalls of precocious intellectualism is really amusing too. Alanis Morrisette - Precious Illusions In that pervasive electro shuffled rock stylee with a characteristic sardonic tinge to the lyrics as implied by the title but typically catchy in her emotionally anthemic way. I like the cynicism inherent in her vocal style, which could probably make even a shopping list seem comtemptible. That habitual little rising cry inflection she uses tends to jar a bit after awhile though. But you knew that already. Meg Hentges - Sleepwalking Effective fx treatment on the vocals accentuates this concise snarl of a rocker featuring various 80s style synth burbles and heavy riffing that at one point reveals an unexpected ZZ Top influence. Nooo...yeah! I wonder how long their beards are these days. Louise Goffin - Instant Photo Shares a Rufus Wainwrightian kind of wackiness (something's a bit out of tune - yeah, intentionally): now just imagine what kind of a 3rd generation songwriting offspring they'd produce. Expected a killer melody given her lineage. Maybe she's trying to break new ground, but this seems too casually based on a mechanical shuffle to be outstanding. Ill advised filial iconoclasm - I'd cut the allowance right now or lock her in a room with one of Mom's later albums to listen to: Ooh, vicious. Wilco - Reservations My limited familiarity with the Wilcs' eclectism should've prepared me for this effective foray into post-Big Star 3 style Gothique replete with a gloomy sparse piano and enigmatic little noises intro/outro (during the likes of which I always visualise the studio janitor forlornly sweeping the floor, cigarette drooping from his lip.) Which isn't to say I don't like it: I used a similar idea myself in a Colours Out Of Time song a long time ago so I damned well ought to....Ha ha ha... Seriously though - mournful and affecting, quite beautiful really. 'Oh the glory of love....' as Uncle Lou once bellowed so earnestly. Johntha Brooke - Linger Nicely programmed to whack rockily in after the preceding track. Another damned strong song, admirably utilising the word 'altercation' and a lot of potent, loaded sensual imagery. Some good old fashioned ambivalently remonstrative 'finger pointing' going on here methinks. I do like the silky, icy tone with which she delivers the goods too. After several listens revealed as a great, GREAT track. Caitlin Cary - Shallow Heart, Shallow Water Stately, sedate, countryish rocking, but gracefully avoiding the pitfalls and cliches all this might suggest. Contemplative lyrics, mandolin fills, twanging geetar, melancholic steel and more fine harmonies with a surreptitious mellotron (!) only finally revealing its subversive presence in the final bars as a really nice touch in the cryptic denouements dept. (I too have learned the accented 'e' transformation into an 'i' and have demured on both occasions here.) Aimee Mann - Backfire I hear a Squeeze on vocals. Nice fuzzed slide licks zooming about, though not often enough for Al Perkins fans. Another mischievous Mellotron squeaks in at the end, speaking furtively of 'I buried Paul' and 'Cranberry Sauce' shenanigins. Needless to say in our company, up to the usual top notch standard on all fronts. Love her vocal style and her accent. Ryan Adams - When The Stars Go Blue Undeniably strong hooks in this ballad soon kick in and save the (to my ear anyway) rather fey, 'sensitive' vocal style on this. Maybe (No 'Maybe' about it chum) I'm just getting too old, but I have difficulty with his brand of blue jean troubadour rock these days. Adams did some live TV shows here and I was not impressed, given the reputation that preceded him. 'You put the guitar in the boot / Lock the boot of the car up / Drive the car to the river / Dump the car in the river / Don't call me in the morning.' With apologies to Harry Nilsson. (We call the trunk of a car a 'boot' in England, but not as in 'Put the ('bovver') boot in' - Ed.) Which leads us with an ungainly stagger to....... Mystery Track - Big Shoes? Admirably sneaky unlisted track on the tape end. How to describe this? Bubblegummed touches of 'Spinning Wheel' trumpeteering punctuating a jokey, quirky self examination on the subject of larger pedal extremities (as I believe one of the X Men used to refer to them, long before that movie I will never see. I remember Jack Kirby fondly) and the associated vicissitudes and particularities of this challenging condition. Catchily bops along with oodles of good humour and the blithe abandon of a swaggering teenage summer. By no means typical 'shoe gazing' fayre..... (I wonder if any of those downcast doodoids ever actually wrote any contemplative treatises on the debilitating psychological effects of enduring the burden of overlarge feet? Don't answer that. Anyone.) Mucho thanks to Andrea for a selection of artistes most of whom I would otherwise never have had the opportunity to appreciate and consequently investigate further. Some revelations here. md. Ps - there is a dreadful nouveau girlpower group over here who nonetheless have a great name - Atomic Kitten (they did a desultory cover of 'Eternal Flame' by the by.). It transpires that this was/is a shortened version of an ever better name - the wonderfully surreal 'Automatic Kitten.' Just wanted to share that with you all as I bow out of the tapeswap loop for awhile. Peace be upon you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:30:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > I can see that, technically, any acquiring of a CD other than through > > purchase or assignation (that is, the label sends you a promo) is wrong in > > that in such cases no one sees royalties - including purchasing used CDs. > > How is that wrong? Why is the purchaser under any obligation to be > responsible for how the artist is compensated? This is actually a good question...yet it seems to be assumed in many contractually conceived notions of copyright. That is, if the purchaser has no particular obligation to be responsible for the artist's compensation, then what legal basis can there be for saying Purchaser X can't upload MP3s of the CD he's purchased? Can't I choose to give away something I own? And yet the making available of copyrighted material was, I believe, the thorn in the side of the RIAA by which they pursued Napster. (Okay...Napster didn't purchase those MP3s...and perhaps they should have been smarter there. If I sell used CDs to a store, they take my name and address to ensure the CDs aren't stolen. What if Napster had recorded the names of those who uploaded sound files? Could they have argued that they were simply functioning as a sort of virtual used CD store...in which clients uploaded sometimes, downloaded others? I can go to a used CD store and *trade* CDs, with no cash changing hands, if I want to...) It also seems that, if there's nothing wrong with *selling* used CDs, there's nothing wrong with buying them from those who have legitimate right to sell them. That being the case, it seems the only ground for the RIAA et al. to stand on would be pirated material; i.e., MP3s of albums not yet released and so on, which could not have been purchased. If I buy a used car, I > don't weep for the lost income of General Motors. Any time anything used > is purchased, that's money that does not go directly to the manufacturer > (and thus the creators) of that product. If someone wins a car in a > raffle, then sells it, is the purchaser guilty of not buying directly from > the dealership? The examples seem to assume I'm taking my own "technically" seriously. As I said, I've purchased used CDs, bought and sold promo CDs, uploaded and downloaded MP3s, and burned CDs of the last and given or traded those away. (I've never sold the latter, however.) And while I'm unlikely to weep for the lost income of GM, it is true that music is rather different from a car - in that I can give you a copy of it while retaining my own copy, and can repeat that process indefinitely. I might weep for musicians if all people ever did was duplicate copies of the one purchased CD - because no musician could make money that way. And I was assuming that we like our favorite musicians to be successful enough to continue to be musicians instead of being cab drivers, cappucino jocks, or nail polish models. All of the above suggests (yet again, on this list...) that the whole issue of digital copyright is tremendously complex, practically, legally, and ethically. I gather, that's why we talk about it. > We assume that there will be promo copies of our releases for sale > somewhere. It's part of the cost of doing business. Which, presumably, is why you don't distribute 7,000,000 of them - like, say, Zero Hour notoriously did. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html Today's Out of Context Quotation: ::"I mean, I castrated pigs and dipped snuff when I was younger":: np: Cream _Wheels of Fire_ disc 1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:37:20 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) > How is that wrong? Why is the purchaser under any obligation to be > responsible for how the artist is compensated? If I buy a used car, > I > don't weep for the lost income of General Motors. Any time anything > used > is purchased, that's money that does not go directly to the > manufacturer > (and thus the creators) of that product. If someone wins a car in > a > raffle, then sells it, is the purchaser guilty of not buying > directly from > the dealership? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any slim chance that the members of loud-fans (who, I'd be willing to bet, have an average income far higher than the national average) could stop putting so much effort and mental gyrations into trying to save a few bucks on the new Yes CD and just pay the freaking retail price? Is that really too much to ask?? I mean, are we all single mothers earning minimum wage at McDonalds, trying to support our five children whose only joy in life is listening to cheap promo copies of Wowee Zowee? Maybe instead we could channel all that energy into figuring out ways to rip off the Girl Scouts of the USA. Talk about exploited labor!! Musical content: that Mali Music thing with Damon Albarn is good as far as I can tell, but it's really more for world-music fans than for fans of blur or gorillaz. Damon only sings on a couple of songs. I think that he was afraid of being Paul Simon, but I also think that he may have erred in the opposite direction. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:41:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, md.robbins wrote: > Mystery Track - Big Shoes? > Admirably sneaky unlisted track on the tape end. > How to describe this? Bubblegummed touches of 'Spinning Wheel' > trumpeteering punctuating a jokey, quirky self examination on the subject > of larger pedal extremities (as I believe one of the X Men used to refer > to them, long before that movie I will never see. I remember Jack Kirby > fondly) and the associated vicissitudes and particularities of this > challenging condition. Catchily bops along with oodles of good humour > and the blithe abandon of a swaggering teenage summer. > By no means typical 'shoe gazing' fayre..... > (I wonder if any of those downcast doodoids ever actually wrote any > contemplative treatises on the debilitating psychological effects of > enduring the burden of overlarge feet? Don't answer that. Anyone.) I suspect this is "Just Because You Wear Big Shoes" by the Jody Grind, a band best known these days for featuring Kelly Hogan. I have this album - I think it was their only one, as a couple of band members died tragically in a van crash while touring to support it (if I recall correctly). I'm at work (ha ha ha!), so I don't have the CD with me - not sure if this was their song or a cover. And I'm too lazy to check w/AMG. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > Is there any slim chance that the members of loud-fans (who, I'd be > willing to bet, have an average income far higher than the national > average) could stop putting so much effort and mental gyrations into > trying to save a few bucks on the new Yes CD and just pay the freaking > retail price? Is that really too much to ask?? We've all probably got more free time than the national average too, and yet we're using an automated list-server instead of typing a hundred of each other's email addresses into our address books. You're coming at it completely ass-backward -- trying to convince people that something is wrong by pointing out that it wouldn't inconvenience them much to act as if they *did* think it were wrong. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:09:20 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet From Aaron> I also think BLUE SKY > ON MARS is a sadly neglected album I used to wonder why I put this one on so infrequently, as when I did so, I generally enjoyed it. After a while I concluded that it was a good album, but with an opening track that I hated, and it was that rather than the rest of the album that held me back. Even in the present when I can easily decide not to play the first track when I play the rest of the album, I suspect that I'm still held back by my subconscious recollection of how the album was ruined for me by that one track. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:11:57 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' In a message dated 8/13/02 5:14:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, md.robbins@ntlworld.com writes: > Mystery Track - Big Shoes? > Admirably sneaky unlisted track on the tape end. > How to describe this? Bubblegummed touches of 'Spinning Wheel' > trumpeteering punctuating a jokey, quirky self examination on the subject > of larger pedal extremities (as I believe one of the X Men used to refer > to them, long before that movie I will never see. I remember Jack Kirby > fondly) and the associated vicissitudes and particularities of this > challenging condition. Catchily bops along with oodles of good humour > and the blithe abandon of a swaggering teenage summer. > By no means typical 'shoe gazing' fayre..... > (I wonder if any of those downcast doodoids ever actually wrote any > contemplative treatises on the debilitating psychological effects of > enduring the burden of overlarge feet? Don't answer that. Anyone.) > > Mucho thanks to Andrea for a selection of artistes most of whom I > would otherwise never have had the opportunity to appreciate and > consequently investigate further. Some revelations here. > > Thanks for a great review, glad you liked the songs so much. Mystery track-Jill Sobule, Big Shoes. Will comment more later. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:57:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > And while I'm unlikely to weep for the lost income of GM, it is true that > music is rather different from a car - in that I can give you a copy of it > while retaining my own copy, and can repeat that process indefinitely. I should've, but didn't, make clear that I was writing only of used CDs/promos, not MP3s or ripped copies of CDs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:07:50 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] You're not a hypocrite, but you might be a cheapskate (ns) Dana Paoli wrote: > Is there any slim chance that the members of loud-fans (who, I'd be > willing to bet, have an average income far higher than the national > average) could stop putting so much effort and mental gyrations into > trying to save a few bucks on the new Yes CD and just pay the freaking > retail price? Is that really too much to ask?? Actually, there are at least a few unemployed, undernourished, and underpaid folks here, and some students. I'm on a tight budget, which is well in the red right now, and often the options really are buy it used and cheap or I can't buy it at all. As for the ethics of the situation, I think it really is because we just don't know. It is a complex issue, and complex ethical issues are interesting to discuss. Plus maybe we want to know if we are just ignorant sinners or knowledgeable ones. Next thing you know, someone will be telling us we shouldn't patronize garage sales. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:01:02 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' At 04:41 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >I suspect this is "Just Because You Wear Big Shoes" by the Jody Grind, a >band best known these days for featuring Kelly Hogan. I have this album - >I think it was their only one, as a couple of band members died tragically >in a van crash while touring to support it (if I recall correctly). There's a second album, LEFTY'S DECEIVER, that came out just before the van crash -- the last track is an instrumental called "Blues for the Living," something that would be eerily prophetic if it weren't just a coincidence. S NP: TURN IT OVER -- Tony Williams Lifetime ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:01:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape review - Andrea Weiss' 'Forms Of Pop' On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, md.robbins wrote: > Fountains Of Wayne - Amity Gardens > Another great song chockablock full of effortless powerpop hookery. > I only have the first album - ought to acquire the 2nd if it's all as strong > as this. I wonder if that curious influence I could never put my finger on > was the poppy XTC, 'cause it seems pretty apparent here. You should definitely buy the 2nd CD, then. Your not having grown up in New Jersey should not dramatically lower your enjoyment of this wonderful album. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #276 *******************************