From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #275 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Dana Paoli ] [loud-fans] Sweet Goldmine [] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [dmw ] [loud-fans] '...Your Sweet Voice' [] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Aaron Mandel ] RE: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? ["Larry Tucker" ] RE: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Sweet Goldmine [JRT456@aol.com] RE: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet [] Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet [Aaron Mandel ] RE: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet ["Larry Tucker" ] [loud-fans] This is so freakin' cool [Boyof100lists@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? ["Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? Further: you could argue the ethical question is better put toward whoever sold the CD, or the store: once it's in the used racks, nothing that happens to it is really going to make any difference, economically, for anyone else involved (except in the case where you would otherwise buy the new CD). That is, the little used promo CD sitting in the shelf is either going to be bought by you, bought by someone else, or turned out on the street to earn a living in whatever lowly and degrading means it can. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff, I think you're baiting me. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:55:11 +0000 From: Subject: [loud-fans] Sweet Goldmine Re Matthew Sweet: there are only three of his albums which I wouldn't recommend to a novice, 'Earth', 'Inside' (both very sheeny '80s pop), and 'Blue Sky on Mars' (a wee bit underdone IMO). I agree that the Japanese '100% Fun' is well worth seeking out for the two bonus tracks, which would make it, what, '117% Fun'? 'In Reverse' I think is lovely, and Sweet's appropriation of the Brian Wilson / Phil Spector production approach works a treat, but stylistically it's very much a one-off, so far at least. As for 'Velvet Goldmine', I thought the music was frankly a mess, and found it bizarre that Ewan McGregor's Iggy character came across as a terribly self-conscious, contrived poseur - the polar opposite of what I imagine he was intended to be, and of what Iggy himself was/is. However, Todd Haynes at least managed to convey some sense of what it was to be a fan, and of why he felt he had to make the movie in the first place, which is more than can be said of a lot of rock'n'roll flicks. Incidentally, has any more happened with the proposed movie based on 'Please Kill Me'? In some ways I dread the idea, but I do feel there's a great gonzo film (all muppet jokes aside) to be made about the late '60s Detroit bands based on some of the stories in the book - since Alex Cox lost out on 'Fear and Loathing' I would have thought this could be ideal for him... big plans for everybody, as usual phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, jer fairall quoted: > > I've ignored Sweet for years...I'm anxious to check out his other stuff. 1. 100% fun 2. altered beast 3. girlfriend i sought out the pre-girlfriend records and kinda regretted it, though one (_earth?_) had it's moments -- but they didn't have the grit of his later stuff. his voice is so...well, sugary... that it really needs lyrical bitterness and other sonic dirtiness to offset it. i'm not aware of a legal case re: promo ownership. i've heard it argued that if the record companies thought they would win it would've happened; certainly they've used the *threat* of action to shut down stores/seize stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:08:01 +0000 From: Subject: [loud-fans] '...Your Sweet Voice' Doug wrote: > i sought out the pre-girlfriend records and kinda regretted it, though one > (_earth?_) had it's moments -- but they didn't have the grit of his later > stuff. his voice is so...well, sugary... that it really needs lyrical > bitterness and other sonic dirtiness to offset it. Yes, of the two, 'Earth' is probably the better, although there's only one song, 'When I Feel Again', which I think stands up with Sweet's later work. It's really strange that Robert Quine and Richard Lloyd both played on those records as well as the later stuff, because they're just so glossy compared both to Sweet's later work and to the sort of material with which Quine and Lloyd are normally associated. Regarding Matthew's voice, I think Doug's spot-on in his assessment. Incidentally, one thing which I remember noticing so strongly from the first time I heard the guy sing was how plaintive and unadorned his vocal style is - In fact, I don't think I've even heard him go as far as using vibrato - is that as unusual as I think it is, or am I talking pop-ignorant rot again? peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > And in many cases, CDs you'd buy used are not necessarily CDs you'd buy > new, anyway. But the question was not whether buying promos is ethical; it was whether it's any different from downloading mp3s without authorization. I don't see much difference myself... one could argue that labels know how many promo copies they're sending out and make that part of their strategy, but when I was doing radio I saw enough angry/bitter notes from labels about how we'd better not sell their fucking promo CDs that I do not in fact think sending out a promo constitutes acceptance of it being resold. It's always easier to bend your own principles when it doesn't feel like you're doing anything wrong. Most of the explanations I've heard for why file-sharing is bad would also rule out purchasing legitimate but contested releases like that Aimee Mann collection, and they sure as hell rule out buying used CDs. And yet... a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:45:39 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? |-----Original Message----- |From: dmw [mailto:dmw@radix.net] |Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:58 AM |To: where punctuation trumps music |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? | | |On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, jer fairall quoted: | |> > I've ignored Sweet for years...I'm anxious to check out his other |> > stuff. | |1. 100% fun |2. altered beast |3. girlfriend | |i sought out the pre-girlfriend records and kinda regretted |it, though one |(_earth?_) had it's moments -- but they didn't have the grit |of his later stuff. his voice is so...well, sugary... that it |really needs lyrical bitterness and other sonic dirtiness to offset it. I agree with you totally, give me the grit, but I would reverse your rankings of BEAST and GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND really has this timeless quality, just like the Tuesday Weld cover photo. I really can't get enough of Robert Quine's and Richard Lloyd's guitar work on that one. Many of the songs sound as though they were recorded live though I've never read anything to confirm this. - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:57:24 +0000 From: Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? Larry wrote: >GIRLFRIEND really has this timeless > quality, just like the Tuesday Weld cover photo. I really can't get > enough of Robert Quine's and Richard Lloyd's guitar work on that one. > Many of the songs sound as though they were recorded live though I've > never read anything to confirm this. Oh, yeah, things like the title track and 'Does She Talk' sound very live, but then again, so does some of '100% Fun' to me, and yet so much of Matthew's work is done on that kind of Todd Rundgren one-man-band overdubbing basis. I think he's quite good at knowing when and how to create the illusion of spontaneity. I love Robert Quine's playing to bits, but to me he always sounded a bit lost working in that pop format: IMO he only truly shines on Matthew's darkest, most rockist release 'Altered Beast'. (Judging by the way he and Quine parted company, it may be that Matthew shares this point of view to some extent.) Ivan Julian did a terrific job when he was part of Matthew's touring band, so it's a pity he didn't make it on to any of the studio albums - peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:05:57 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet I guess I'll pipe in my opinion here. Interesting to see so many ALTERED BEAST fans. Sweet says it's his favorite of his own albums, actually. I find it more of an interesting failure. I appreciate its darker flavor and think it's more lyrically interesting than his other albums, but most of the songs on it don't stick with me. Many, many listens later I still can't recall the tunes of more than a song or two from side two of the album. I think it would have been better had it been about 10 or 11 songs. If I remember correctly, it's a pretty long album, like 55 minutes or so. I think GIRLFRIEND is his best and most enduring album and certainly the place to start, but my personal favorite is 100% FUN, if only because "Get Older" and "We're The Same" are my favorites of his. I also think BLUE SKY ON MARS is a sadly neglected album. I like it a lot--better than ALTERED BEAST or IN REVERSE. I think the songs are solid and no-nonsense, and I like its brevity and arrangements. I love Quine and Lloyd as guitarists, but I get the impression that a lot of their lead playing on Sweet's albums is heavily improvised and strikes me as playing for the sake of playing. BLUE SKY ON MARS is missing this kind of excess. Admittedly it's also missing the best guitar moments, but it's not sappy or wussy like Sweet's first two albums, which I find virtually unlistenable. Also, Sweet fronted a band called Buzz of Delight and was a member of Oh-OK before he went solo. Both bands have EPs that are quite nice, better than those first two Sweet albums. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:16:24 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sweet Goldmine In a message dated 8/13/02 4:55:27 AM, phil.gerrard@ntlworld.com writes: << Incidentally, has any more happened with the proposed movie based on 'Please Kill Me'? >> Although I'm sure somebody still owns the rights, the latest from Legs is that the producers couldn't decide on how they wanted the story to be told, and the whole thing kind of fell apart once it became obvious they were about to make a movie that would make "Velvet Goldmine" look like one fine film in comparison. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:18:14 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Larry Tucker wrote: > I agree with you totally, give me the grit, but I would reverse your > rankings of BEAST and GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND really has this timeless > quality, just like the Tuesday Weld cover photo. I really can't get > enough of Robert Quine's and Richard Lloyd's guitar work on that one. > Many of the songs sound as though they were recorded live though I've > never read anything to confirm this. my preference for "beast" over "girl" (ooh, did that come out wrong) is a matter of splitting hairs, not a major disagreement. i read an interview somewhere with sweet in which he claimed that virtually all of quine and lloyd's playing on those records was first or at most second take; he didn't want them to know the song, he wanted them to follow it live. sounds credible; there are definitely some notes that sound arguably "wrong" in some of those performances (while at the same time sounding very right in context). it's a great gimmick if you've got musicians of the right caliber; thelonious monk did the same thing. you know what i wish existed? a good live recording of shriekback circa 1985, when ivan julian was in the touring band. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:19:47 +0000 From: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet Aaron wrote: > I think it would have been better had it been about 10 or 11 songs. If I > remember correctly, it's a pretty long album, like 55 minutes or so. >I also think BLUE SKY > ON MARS is a sadly neglected album. I like it a lot--better than ALTERED > BEAST or IN REVERSE. I think the songs are solid and no-nonsense, and I > like its brevity and arrangements. Actually, you've got a point - I think '100% Fun' and 'Blue Sky on Mars' are in fact the only albums of his which don't suffer from overlength (although I'm only familiar with 'Girlfriend' in its 15-song version, and think it would have been a lot stronger had it finished with 'Your Sweet Voice'). >Also, Sweet fronted > a band called Buzz of Delight and was a member of Oh-OK before he went solo. > Both bands have EPs that are quite nice, better than those first two Sweet > albums. Oh, right! For future reference, as I'm acting the financially cautious student at the moment, where might be a good place to track these down? phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:29:03 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet >Actually, you've got a point - I think '100% Fun' and 'Blue Sky on Mars' >are in fact the only albums of his which don't suffer from overlength >(although I'm only familiar with 'Girlfriend' in its 15-song version, and >think it would have been a lot stronger had it finished with 'Your Sweet >Voice'). > The vinyl and cassette versions do... > >Also, Sweet fronted > > a band called Buzz of Delight and was a member of Oh-OK before he went >solo. > > Both bands have EPs that are quite nice, better than those first two >Sweet > > albums. > >Oh, right! For future reference, as I'm acting the financially cautious >student at the moment, where might be a good place to track these down? > I found them cheap in used record stores. I don't see any on GEMM, unfortunately. eBay maybe? They're not expensive. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:42:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: > I found them cheap in used record stores. I don't see any on GEMM, > unfortunately. eBay maybe? They're not expensive. Isn't there some kind of Oh-OK omnibus reissue coming out soon? I remember seeing something along those lines. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:26:46 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet |-----Original Message----- |From: Aaron Mandel [mailto:aaron@eecs.harvard.edu] |Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:42 AM |To: Aaron Milenski |Cc: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet | | |On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: | |> I found them cheap in used record stores. I don't see any on GEMM, |> unfortunately. eBay maybe? They're not expensive. | |Isn't there some kind of Oh-OK omnibus reissue coming out |soon? I remember seeing something along those lines. Yep. http://www.ccmusic.com/ - -larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:57:58 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet In a message dated 8/13/02 10:27:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ltucker@townofchapelhill.org writes: > Isn't there some kind of Oh-OK omnibus reissue coming out > |soon? I remember seeing something along those lines. > > > Yep. > http://www.ccmusic.com/ > > It is for sale now at the site, and is to be released to stores in September, but I forgot which day. The 3 O'Clock reissue is out today in stores. "Hurry before it melts." - -Mark Staples, whose favorite MS record is "Girlfriend" The drums and backing vox on "Good Friend" are terrific, and I think is a quintessential song of '90s pop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:18:17 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show Anybody in the SF area going/gone to this? If so, please tell me about it (listworthy?), so that I may live it vicariously through you. See me, hear me, touch me, heal me (smell me, etc) - -Mark Staples ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:58:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] borscht (ns) Dr Pepper Red???? Do tell Do Tell DO TELL My name is Phil F. and I'm a pepper too!!! NP.... the fan in the background - --- jenny grover wrote: > No Orangina Red here. I like Vanilla Coke, but not > as much as Pepsi > Twist. Pepsi Blue isn't so hot. Kinda weird, but > pretty boring, > really. The new Dr. Pepper red thing (can't > remember the name of it > right now) is better. It's actually good enough > that I would try one > again. > > Jen HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:35:47 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] This is so freakin' cool After spazzing out with glee at the record store, and convincing my friend Chris (fellow '80s child) to put it on the store's stereo immediately after opening (she wanted to hear it too...not too much convincing involved) I'm happier than a pig in slop. This reissue is great great great! The liner notes are excellent, written mostly by Danny Benair (drummers rule), but input from Michael Quercio and Michael Mariano. Scott even gets a mention. About "The Girl with the Guitar (Says Oh Yeah)" Benair writes: "Michael wrote this with Game Theory's Scott Miller--the only time someone outside the band co-wrote a song. We played this on MTV's 'The Cutting Edge.'" About "Her Head's Revolving," Benair writes: Our guitarist Louis dated Suzannah Hoffs of the Bangles. The L.A. band protocol was that you did not cover a song if another band was doing it. We were thinking of covering "Open My Eyes" by the Nazz. The Bangles claimed it, so Michael and Louis wrote HHR with a strong nod to the Nazz. It became our stage opener for quite awhile. We all loved playing this track. MTV banned the original video because a girl drank green liquid and felt, ah, woozy? I suppose most everyone will have this (or is out buying it as I write this) if not already, soon. I just got so excited I had to share it with others who would understand. Bursting with fruit flavor, - -Mark Staples np: take a guess ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:40:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > But the question was not whether buying promos is ethical; it was whether > it's any different from downloading mp3s without authorization. I took the ethical question as read, given the issue of hypocrisy raised in the post, hypocrisy being a question of ethics. At any rate... > It's always easier to bend your own principles when it doesn't feel like > you're doing anything wrong. Most of the explanations I've heard for why > file-sharing is bad would also rule out purchasing legitimate but > contested releases like that Aimee Mann collection, and they sure as hell > rule out buying used CDs. And yet... ...this is true. Although I'm not sure how strongly held principles might be, if bending them doesn't feel wrong. I can see that, technically, any acquiring of a CD other than through purchase or assignation (that is, the label sends you a promo) is wrong in that in such cases no one sees royalties - including purchasing used CDs. But in practice, I don't have a real problem with any of the behaviors we've been discussing, in moderation - esp. for myself, since I buy loads and loads of CDs. If everyone maintained my legit purchase/"illegitimate' purchase ratio and quantity, the record industry would be making money hand over fist. Or several hands over several fists. (Of course, if I recall, some people object even to getting promos - if I remember, glenn writes only about CDs he purchases, and he refuses promos (or ignores, more likely - returning a promo probably costs more to record companies, given admin costs, than just keeping the damned thing). I'm being profligate with these things --> ) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Solipsism is its own reward:: __Crow T. Robot__ np: His Name Is Alive _Ft. Lake_ (paid for) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:45:29 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] oh OK release date One more thing before I go and get ready to work for the man...the release date for stores of the Oh OK collection is September 10. - -Mark Staples, thinking you just don't hear enough majestic church organs in pop songs these days ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:20:12 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? >Show of hands here - who else is petrified by the thought of Brianna driving a Hummer through the streets of San Francisco? Especially the Brianna of 7 years ago... I wonder if she wore her corset to the recruiting office. That would explain...much... Andy Q: Who are the 5 best ballad singers of the rock 'n' roll era? By "ballad" I mean "Moon River" not "Barbara Allen." "Rock 'n' roll era" can mean whatever you want it to. A: Frank Sinatra George Jones Willie Nelson Al Green Elvis Presley If Sinatra ain't rock-era enough for you, just stick in Justin Timberlake. Billie Holiday isn't even rock-era enough for me. [--exchange between Frank Kogan and Robert Christgau, from Christgau's online Q&A, http://www.rockcritics.com/Rbt_Cxgau_1_Online_Exchange_AUGust_2002.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Matthew Sweet My Cassette version of "Girlfriend" has 15 songs on it. "100% Fun" and "Blue Sky On Mars" were also produced by Brendan O'Brien. Coincidence?? Probably. I guess I'm going to have to be one of the few on the list who did NOT like "Altered Beast". After 'Dinosaur Act' I thought the record got pretty boring. 'Ugly Truth' and 'Time Capsule' were decent songs, but I can't remember any other songs on that record. The whole thing sounded very rushed..like it was written and recorded in the 2 weeks he had off while promoting "Girlfriend"...at least to me it does. Shouldn't he have something new coming. It's been a while since that Greatest Hits package. Phil F. NP... Control Freq _Freq Show_ - --- Aaron Milenski wrote: > >Actually, you've got a point - I think '100% Fun' > and 'Blue Sky on Mars' > >are in fact the only albums of his which don't > suffer from overlength > >(although I'm only familiar with 'Girlfriend' in > its 15-song version, and > >think it would have been a lot stronger had it > finished with 'Your Sweet > >Voice'). > > > > The vinyl and cassette versions do... HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:25:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I can see that, technically, any acquiring of a CD other than through > purchase or assignation (that is, the label sends you a promo) is wrong in > that in such cases no one sees royalties - including purchasing used CDs. I'm not convinced this is correct with respect to used CDs. The fact that one can sell unwanted CDs raises the willingness to pay for a new CD, which allows record companies to charge more for CDs in the first place. In other words, record companies (and artists, to the extent that artists receive record company profits) are compensated when they sell CDs (new) for the possibility that the CD may end up being sold and resold in the used markets. My one piece of evidence for this is the fact that CDs sell for a couple dollars more than tapes. I don't really know why this is the case, but one reasonable explanation is that CDs have resale value and tapes don't. But of course, I started the discussion about promo CDs in the used markets, which is a different story. I'm still not sure how the story ends for me, but have appreciated the discussion. I've also appreciated the Matthew Sweet discussion. I didn't intend to start this one, but I'm glad it started anyway. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:34:44 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show there's a review here: http://www.examiner.com/movies/default.jsp?story=X0809ZIGGYw i was thinking about trying to catch it, but my mind has been changed. interesting cultural note: the article mentions 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing'. somehow, probably because the Coke commercial came out before i was born, i have no idea what the original lyrics were. it's amazing how a commercial can get so entrenched... i can remember every word of the commercial lyrics. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:18 AM Subject: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show > Anybody in the SF area going/gone to this? If so, please tell me about it > (listworthy?), so that I may live it vicariously through you. > > See me, hear me, touch me, heal me (smell me, etc) > > -Mark Staples ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:47:15 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show me on 8/13/2002 11:34:44 AM wrote: > interesting cultural note: the article mentions 'I'd Like to Teach the World > to Sing'. somehow, probably because the Coke commercial came out before i > was born, i have no idea what the original lyrics were. it's amazing how a > commercial can get so entrenched... i can remember every word of the > commercial lyrics. Now I've got "I'd like to teach the world to sing And pull its pants down to its knees..." stuck in my head now. Where's that from? Elephant Parts? What was the rest? *Sigh* I guess I should do my own research, eh? A web search indicates it's a National Lampoon parody, but that doesn't sound familiar to me: "I'd like to buy the world a Coke, and slip in a drug or two Then pull its pants down to its knees and paint its butt bright blue. I'd tie it up with bonds and straps and check its purse for change Then leave it out at Moose Grin Hall with my cousin who's deranged" Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:55:43 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? My personal ethical stance on this is morbidly simple: buying new is good, anything else requires special circumstances. And I include in this deliberately not listing a mailing address on my web site and not telling it to people who ask. The whole promo thing is gross, in my opinion, but I'm convinced it's about to start going away, as it seems fairly obvious to me that major labels will move to virtual formats for media distribution, as is already the case with much Muzak. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:42:32 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? >I don't even want to think about two car seats in the back of a two >door Integra. Just one was tight enough in my four door Integra. I >highly recommend the Passat Wagon, which accomodates our two car seats >quite well. We got the V6 with the 5 speed manual transmission. Very >safe, very solid, and still reasonably fun to drive. A friendly tip to those who have kiddlings, or who might have them: four-door, four-door! As the older sibling in a classic nuclear family, carted around largely in a two-door VW squareback (Dad let the Valiant die, but that's another story), I have no memories of the car seat era. But boy do I remember Dad reaching over to pop the passenger-side front seat forward, and two boys with two instrument cases and two forty-pound backbacks struggling out to the bus stop through a foot and a half of clearance. Into the pouring rain, quite often. Five miles, snow, no shoes, etc., Andy Lisa Marie Presley and Nicolas Cage are saying aloha to the single life. The daughter of Elvis and the Oscar-winning actor tied the knot Saturday in a ceremony on the Big Island of Hawaii--just a week before the 25th anniversary of her father's death. According to Cage's publicist, the ceremony took place on the lawn of the Mauna Lani Bay Hotel and Bungalows and was attended by Lisa Marie's mother, Priscilla Presley, Lisa Marie's children from a previous marriage (Danielle, 13, and Benjamin, 10), as well as Cage's 12-year-old son, Weston, from a previous relationship. "The wedding was in front of immediate family and friends," publicist Lisa Block tells the Associated Press. This marks the second marriage for the 38-year-old actor (who once donned his late father-in-law's white jumpsuit for Honeymoon in Vegas), and the third trip down the aisle for the 34-year-old Presley. The King's only child was previously married to Michael Jackson in 1994 (they split less than a year later and divorced in 1996), and prior to that, musician Danny Keough, with whom she had two children. Presley also was previously engaged to John Oszajca before hooking up with Cage. Cage, meanwhile, was previously married for six years to actress Patricia Arquette before the pair divorced in November 2000. (Arquette also have moved on: She got engaged this month to actor Thomas Jane.) The Coppola clan member also was once engaged to Kristen Zang in the early '90s and, prior to that, had a child with actress-girlfriend Kristina Fulton. Cage, an Oscar winner for his role in 1995's Leaving Las Vegas and star of action flicks like The Rock and Gone in Sixty Seconds, started dating Presley in April of last year. But the pair seemed headed for Heartbreak Hotel in February, when Cage's publicist confirmed that they had split up, despite tabloid rumors of an impending engagement. No word on when they reconciled--or if they ever really broke up. Interestingly, the wedding comes just as fans of Presley's father converge on Graceland in Memphis, Tennessee, for Elvis Week, a tribute to the rock 'n' roll legend on the 25th anniversary of his death. Presley was 42 when he died August 16, 1977, the result of a drug-induced heart attack. No word on Cage and Presley's honeymoon plans, but the couple returned to Los Angeles Sunday. Cage's publicist says he was due back at work today for shooting on his latest movie, Matchstick Men, directed by Ridley Scott. [--from http://entertainment.msn.com/news/eonline/081202_cage.asp ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:36:18 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show At 10:34 AM 8/13/2002 -0700, me wrote: >there's a review here: > >http://www.examiner.com/movies/default.jsp?story=X0809ZIGGYw > >i was thinking about trying to catch it, but my mind has been changed. > >interesting cultural note: the article mentions 'I'd Like to Teach the World >to Sing'. somehow, probably because the Coke commercial came out before i >was born, i have no idea what the original lyrics were. it's amazing how a >commercial can get so entrenched... i can remember every word of the >commercial lyrics. The Coke commercial *was* the original lyrics. Once the commercial gained popularity, the writers (Roger Cook and Roger Greenaway, the kings of UK bubblegum) wrote a full song around it and two groups, the Hillside Singers ('cause the commercial was shot on a hillside, see) and the New Seekers, had charting hits with it. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:57:54 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I'd like to teach the world to swing ah-ha! i see.... Their biggest success, however, came from an unlikely source: an ad jingle they recorded for Coca-Cola, which became part of a hugely popular campaign that summer -- so popular, in fact, that radio listeners actually called in to request the commercial. It was decided to release the song as a single called "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing (In Perfect Harmony)," with the lyrics rewritten to remove product references. Since the New Seekers were unavailable at the time, a country-tinged version by the Hillside Singers was actually released first. The New Seekers recorded their own version while touring America toward the end of the year, and since it naturally sounded more like the commercial, it proved the bigger hit, reaching the U.S. Top Ten despite stiff competition from the alternate recording. Helped by the ad campaign, "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing (In Perfect Harmony)" was a smash hit all over the world, topping the charts in several countries (including the U.K.) and giving the New Seekers their biggest hit ever. - -a small piece of http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/artistbio.asp?ctr=85744 my shot: I'd like to teach the world to use depleted uranium I'd like to see their faces glow like big geraniums. yeah, ok, that sucked. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Mason" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show > At 10:34 AM 8/13/2002 -0700, me wrote: > >there's a review here: > > > >http://www.examiner.com/movies/default.jsp?story=X0809ZIGGYw > > > >i was thinking about trying to catch it, but my mind has been changed. > > > >interesting cultural note: the article mentions 'I'd Like to Teach the World > >to Sing'. somehow, probably because the Coke commercial came out before i > >was born, i have no idea what the original lyrics were. it's amazing how a > >commercial can get so entrenched... i can remember every word of the > >commercial lyrics. > > The Coke commercial *was* the original lyrics. Once the commercial gained > popularity, the writers (Roger Cook and Roger Greenaway, the kings of UK > bubblegum) wrote a full song around it and two groups, the Hillside Singers > ('cause the commercial was shot on a hillside, see) and the New Seekers, > had charting hits with it. > > S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:06:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, me wrote: > there's a review here: > > http://www.examiner.com/movies/default.jsp?story=X0809ZIGGYw > > i was thinking about trying to catch it, but my mind has been changed. I saw it the first time it was released, ca. '84-85 (?), and I remember it being grainy and poorly shot, with dubious musical value. "Cracked Actor", on the other hand, is hypnotic - what's it like to be a vampire pop star? David Bowie shows you! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:08:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Michael Mitton wrote: > I'm not convinced this is correct with respect to used CDs. The fact that > one can sell unwanted CDs raises the willingness to pay for a new CD, > which allows record companies to charge more for CDs in the first place. > In other words, record companies (and artists, to the extent that artists > receive record company profits) are compensated when they sell CDs (new) > for the possibility that the CD may end up being sold and resold in the > used markets. > > My one piece of evidence for this is the fact that CDs sell for a couple > dollars more than tapes. Hmmm...this argument leads to a rather ethically slippery area (again with the ethics!) in which almost *any* abuse of recorded music (and musicians' rights) can be similarly justified. I mean, if high CD prices anticipate and excuse used CD sales, do they not also anticipate and excuse owners' burning MP3s which are then acquired (w/o compensation to the royalty holders) by others? With the exception of MP3s snuck out prior to official release, *somebody* bought the source for the MP3 in the first place. I don't really know why this is the case, but > one reasonable explanation is that CDs have resale value and tapes don't. Actually, I hope this argument isn't too powerful: record companies will simply think they can continue raising CD prices to copensate for lost sales - which will reduce sales and encourage buying used CDs, etc. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Never drive a car when you're dead:: __Tom Waits__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:11:10 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fascination: The Bowie Show Roger Winston wrote: >Now I've got > >"I'd like to teach the world to sing >And pull its pants down to its knees..." > >stuck in my head now. Where's that from? Elephant Parts? What was the rest? > >*Sigh* I guess I should do my own research, eh? > >A web search indicates it's a National Lampoon parody, but that doesn't >sound familiar to me: It was. From one of the golden era mid-70s magazines. I can remember this much: "I'd like to teach the world a song And tell it jokes and stuff And pull its pants down to its knees And chase it through the rough" I'll do a web search myself to try to get more details. I know from having tried that there are a few of the glorious, nasty Chris Miller stories still out there somewhere. >"I'd like to buy the world a Coke, and slip in a drug or two >Then pull its pants down to its knees and paint its butt bright blue. >I'd tie it up with bonds and straps and check its purse for change >Then leave it out at Moose Grin Hall with my cousin who's deranged" Very nice! b.s., who misses Trots and Bonnie p.s. Gratuitous Matthew Sweet two cents. Make me rank-order his records and it'd go: 1) GIRLFRIEND - indispensable 2) 100% FUN - I always assumed the title was a small retort to the ALTERED BEAST critics 3) IN REVERSE - interesting, lovely change of pace...where's the follow-up 4) ALTERED BEAST - unjustly maligned, though inconsistent 5) BLUE SKY ON MARS - Sweet's GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD - not worthless, but I never appreciated the fly-away nature of his pre-GIRLFRIEND stuff enough to bother listening that much. Your mileage may vary. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #275 *******************************