From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #274 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 274 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Theremin Redux [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] Sight and Sound Movie Poll [Chris Prew ] [loud-fans] Dorian ["Aaron Milenski" ] RE: [loud-fans] EC, but not G ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Chris Murtland ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Dan Sallitt ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? ["richblath" ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Dorian/Velvet Goldmine [OptionsR@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? No, but how about Matthew Sweet? [Micha] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 03:12:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Theremin Redux I remember a couple of months ago we had a thread on the Theremin, so I thought I'd mention that on metafilter right now, there's a section with links to everything you ever wanted to know (including an interesting story about the inventor) about it. The website is: http://www.metafilter.com The postings are in chronoligical order, and the theremin post is August 11, 10:57 PM. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:15:59 +0000 From: Subject: [loud-fans] EC, but not G Jeff wrote: >(That is, I like the outro to "Layla." I also like the >song itself. But the remake? If something really good >is "to die for," apparently the remake is to live for.) I remember Pete Townshend, in full-on curmudgeon mode, making a speech before presenting Clapton with some 'lifetime achievement' award, in which he praised everything Eric had ever done except the unplugged 'Layla', about which he said 'it's bossa nova karaoke and I fucking hate it'. The photograph which shows the look on Clapton's face as he accepted the award is just priceless... I'm embarrassed to say that I've never heard the original 'Let It Rain', only the Dream Syndicate's cover of the tune, which I love, even though they make it sound almost exactly like 'Cinnamon Girl'. (Come to think of it, the only Dream Syndicate cover version which doesn't sound like 'Cinnamon Girl' is 'Cinnamon Girl' itself, which, quite incomprehensibly, they flub completely.) I'm a bit cautious about Clapton's work, but can anybody tell me the best place to track down the original version? peace & love phil (who always had far more of a soft spot for Jack Bruce than for the other two guys in Cream) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:49:30 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? On Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:46:01 -0400, Francis J H Park wrote: >Current daily driver: Acura Integra 2-dr. To be replaced with a VW Passat >wagon when I pay off the Ford Exploder my wife currently drives. I don't even want to think about two car seats in the back of a two door Integra. Just one was tight enough in my four door Integra. I highly recommend the Passat Wagon, which accomodates our two car seats quite well. We got the V6 with the 5 speed manual transmission. Very safe, very solid, and still reasonably fun to drive. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:01:38 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sight and Sound Movie Poll Is it just me, or do Tokyo Story and Sunrise seem to be a bit new to these polls? Has their stock risen of late? Haven't seen either of them Chris >> >> 1. Citizen Kane (Welles) 1941 >> 2. Vertigo (Hitchcock) 1958 >> 3. La Regle du Jeu (Renoir) 1939 >> 4. The Godfather I and II (Coppola) 1972, 1974 >> 5. Tokyo Story (Ozu) 1953 >> 6. 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick) 1968 >> 7. Sunrise (Murnau) 1927 >> 8. Battleship Potemkin (Eisenstein) 1925 >> 9. 8 1/2 (Fellini) 1963 >> 10. Singin' in the Rain (Kelly, Donen) 1951 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:15:00 +0000 From: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sight and Sound Movie Poll Chris wrote: > Is it just me, or do Tokyo Story and Sunrise seem to be a bit new to these > polls? Has their stock risen of late? I think they popped up quite regularly in critics' polls of years past, particularly in the '60s and '70s, but for whatever reason haven't been mentioned much recently - maybe because the critical discourse of recent years has been much more populist than previously. Me' I'm glad to see 'em back: I certainly wasn't sorry that entertaining curios like 'Caligari' stopped getting into these polls, but it seemed a shame that interest in world cinema from the 'Sight and Sound' mob seemed to dwindle from the late '80s onward, and it's good to see that they haven't forgotten about people like Ozu and Murnau. peace & love phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:18:30 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Dorian Has anyone here ever heard of a mid-70s New York rocker named Dorian Passante? He released an album in 1977 called DORIAN. It's a pretty bizarre glam-influenced album that mostly sounds improvised, or at least arranged in an offhand manner (though the first two songs are really great.) I'm guessing he was a contemporary of Wayne County, the Dictators, The New York Dolls, and so on. What makes the album interesting is that it's one of the first openly gay rock albums not to come from either the disco or British glam scene. Online I dug up a flyer for a 1974 show where Television opened for him and a Jeff Beck session listing that clais Beck played on two of the album's songs (!), but otherwise there's no information on the net at all. I'm assuming this album is pretty obscure--it was obviously pressed on his own label. Aarno _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:20:47 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] EC, but not G |-----Original Message----- |From: phil.gerrard@ntlworld.com [mailto:phil.gerrard@ntlworld.com] |Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:16 AM |To: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: [loud-fans] EC, but not G | | |Jeff wrote: | |>(That is, I like the outro to "Layla." I also like the >song itself. |>But the remake? If something really good >is "to die for," apparently |>the remake is to live for.) | |I remember Pete Townshend, in full-on curmudgeon mode, making |a speech before presenting Clapton with some 'lifetime |achievement' award, in which he praised everything Eric had |ever done except the unplugged 'Layla', about which he said |'it's bossa nova karaoke and I fucking hate it'. The |photograph which shows the look on Clapton's face as he |accepted the award is just priceless... | |I'm embarrassed to say that I've never heard the original 'Let |It Rain', only the Dream Syndicate's cover of the tune, which |I love, even though they make it sound almost exactly like |'Cinnamon Girl'. (Come to think of it, the only Dream |Syndicate cover version which doesn't sound like 'Cinnamon |Girl' is 'Cinnamon Girl' itself, which, quite |incomprehensibly, they flub completely.) I'm a bit cautious |about Clapton's work, but can anybody tell me the best place |to track down the original version? It's from his first self-titled solo album which featured most of Delaney and Bonnie's band who Eric later claimed his on in forming Derek and the Dominoes. - -Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:33:21 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sight and Sound Movie Poll > Is it just me, or do Tokyo Story and Sunrise seem to be a bit new to these > polls? Has their stock risen of late? TOKYO STORY made a dramatic entrance at #3 in the 1992 poll. So it's actually on the way down. Its rep did increase steady in the 60s, 70s, and 80s - very few people outside of Japan knew Ozu well before 1960. This is SUNRISE's first time in the top ten, but that's a little deceptive, as it's been kicking around just a notch below that for a while. (It tied for 11th in 1992.) Its rep has been very strong for the last 30 or 40 years - if I had to guess, I'd say that its stock hasn't risen at all, but that the vicissitudes of the voting just pushed it on this year. Most of the films that dropped off between 1992 and 2002 are either arty or non-US, and most of the films that jumped on in 2002 are either American or entertainment films. So SUNRISE may have benefited a little from its classic storytelling values. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:01:05 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (the picture of) Dorian In a message dated 8/12/02 10:18:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: > Has anyone here ever heard of a mid-70s New York rocker named Dorian > Passante? I'm thinking that this record may be the record Morrissey is holding in the video for "Pregnant for the Last Time." I have the DVD, and I slowed it down once frame by frame, and the album appears for only one frame semi-clearly in his hand. Is the cover a head shot of a '70s Leif Garret/Peter Frampton looking guy? - -Mark Staples, suddenly wanting a cheese sandwich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:20:13 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? i have to second the comments about driving the mil spec HMMWV.... mainly so i can brag about having driven one..... through san francisco..... with a very nervous recruiter guy in the passenger seat. wiggly fade to about 7 years ago.... i'm still not sure what he thought he was going to get out of it, other than fired, but i walked into his office after having seen the vehicle out front and demanded to know who it belonged to, and subsequently demanded a ride. the guy freaked when i asked if i could drive, but a few blocks later he pulled over and told me to get out. i ended up driving all around through the city for about a half hour. the best part, though, was china town, with its tiny little streets. once the recruiter realized i wasn't going to kill anyone with the thing, he kept telling me to drive over the curbs. much fun was had by all. b - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis J H Park" To: Cc: "Actions Neatly Chained" Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? > As someone who drives a HMMWV on a regular basis, this piqued my > attention... > > Older HMMWVs with the 6.2 engine are maddeningly slow to accelerate. The > newer ones with the 6.5l turbocharged engine are actually a lot more fun to > drive. > > The HMMWV has really loose steering because it needs all the power steering > it can get. Broken power steering = enough torque on steering wheel to > break your wrists if you're not careful driving cross-country. Having had > this almost happen to me I can vouch for it. > > The suspension on all the military HMMWVs is humorlessly rigid. I got into > the habit of padding my seat with a folded up blanket when I was riding > shotgun because my tuckus got a beating driving over anything that had a > bump on it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:23:36 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (the picture of) Dorian > > Has anyone here ever heard of a mid-70s New York rocker named Dorian > > Passante? > >I'm thinking that this record may be the record Morrissey is holding in the >video for "Pregnant for the Last Time." I have the DVD, and I slowed it >down >once frame by frame, and the album appears for only one frame semi-clearly >in >his hand. Is the cover a head shot of a '70s Leif Garret/Peter Frampton >looking guy? Hmmm...if anyone would be a fan, it would be Morrissey, I suppose. The album cover is a profile view. It is a head shot, and there's a trickle of blood dripping from his teeth. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:35:44 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (the picture of) Dorian I'm wrong. I played the video a minute ago and it is gay rock star Jobriath. The hair is more Garrett...if Leif were the evil ruler of a planet a long time ago in a galaxy far far away (along the lines of Star Trek's Q). But the question remains: Where's Prince Valium? - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:42:23 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? Show of hands here - who else is petrified by the thought of Brianna driving a Hummer through the streets of San Francisco? Especially the Brianna of 7 years ago... Latre. --Rog - ----- Original Message ----- From: me Sent: 8/12/2002 11:20:13 AM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? > i have to second the comments about driving the mil spec HMMWV.... > mainly so i can brag about having driven one..... through san > francisco..... with a very nervous recruiter guy in the passenger seat. > > wiggly fade to about 7 years ago.... > > i'm still not sure what he thought he was going to get out of it, other than > fired, but i walked into his office after having seen the vehicle out front > and demanded to know who it belonged to, and subsequently demanded a ride. > the guy freaked when i asked if i could drive, but a few blocks later he > pulled over and told me to get out. i ended up driving all around through > the city for about a half hour. the best part, though, was china town, with > its tiny little streets. once the recruiter realized i wasn't going to kill > anyone with the thing, he kept telling me to drive over the curbs. much fun > was had by all. > > b ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:51:32 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] $1 Lolita/Orangina/Guarana i don't know about Orangina, but i'd warn you away from frequent use of ephedra. i used to think of it as a great herbal allergy symptom combatant, but it's starting to be thought of as a very dangerous drug. (starting=last 5 years) it can cause serious problems when combined with other stimulants, like caffeine, and can do things like enlarge your prostate. of course, like any stimulant, it can be used safely by most people in reasonable amounts. the thinking is that it is more addictive than caffeine and possibly a bit more likely to cause problems. i'm a healthy happy person, and i drink a double or triple espresso every morning, but stuff with ma huang (Ephedra sinica) in it makes my heart go all funny and irregular. took me a while to figure out what it was, but it's like clock work. so it's not horrible, but it can cause serious issues. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Paoli" To: Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:13 AM Subject: [loud-fans] $1 Lolita/Orangina/Guarana ... > Orangina Rouge seems to contain caffeine and guarana. Unlike drinks > containing ma huang/ephedra, this one doesn't make me grind my teeth for > the next six hours. I'm not sure why they felt the need to put anything > at all into it, though. Orangina is stimulant free, isn't it? > > --dana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:39:08 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hummer...Satan's Utility Vehicle? In a message dated 8/12/02 1:43:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rwinston@tde.com writes: > Show of hands here - who else is petrified by the thought of Brianna driving > a Hummer through the streets of San Francisco? Especially the Brianna of 7 > years ago... > > Latre. --Rog > > > I've already parked the Suzuki on the curb, hoping she'll crush it like a Coke can so I can get out of the payments, and buy a used new Beetle. - -Mark ***There is one SUV I adore. Remember the Volkswagen Thing? It is considered the original. I had a roommate at College of Charleston in the eighties who had one, and he let me borrow it for an afternoon. I drove it out to the beach and around the historic district and people were screaming "nice car!" to me in traffic. It was the most fun I've ever had driving. The salt air blowing on your face driving over the Cooper River Bridge in a topless VW Thing....sublime. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:57:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Pixies Purple- Dissenting View On Sun, 11 Aug 2002 GlenSarvad@aol.com wrote: > 3) maybe it's a case of first-heard-first loved, but I prefer the > subsequent versions of many of these songs. Ah, I agreed with you up to here. For the most part, the Purple Thing they just released consisted of songs I'd never liked much, performed in a way that made me finally see what the point was. But yeah, overall, put me in the "nice for serious fans, no big deal" camp. I suppose there are legal reasons for not doing this, but I had hoped they'd issue the whole original demo tape -- I suspect that, despite Come On Pilgrim being the better half of it, the whole thing would sound better as a full album, sequenced as original, etc. np. Bright Eyes - Lifted [Conor Oberst really didn't waste much time becoming the post-hardcore equivalent of the weird guy who lives at the top of the hill, did he?] a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:53:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? OK, I'm not trying to start the "is MP3 swapping illegal/bad" debate. Suffice it to say that *I* think it's both illegal and, at least under most circumstances, wrong. That said, I don't seem to have any problem buying used CDs that have this sort of stamp on them: "For Promotional Use Only. Sale is Unlawful." What is the legal status of these promotional CDs? Is sale truly unlawful, or do they just put the stamp on there? If selling it is illegal, does that mean buying it is also illegal? Am I a hypocrite? - --Michael NP Matthew Sweet 100% FUN (I've ignored Sweet for years for no good reason except that I placed him among all the other "New Rock Alternative" acts I have little enthusiasm for. But I recently picked this out of a bargain bin and think it's an excellent power pop record. I'm anxious to check out his other stuff.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:59:00 -0400 From: Chris Murtland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? I believe legally the promotional copy of the CD remains the property of the record label. Murtopolis Michael Mitton wrote: >OK, I'm not trying to start the "is MP3 swapping illegal/bad" debate. >Suffice it to say that *I* think it's both illegal and, at least >under >most circumstances, wrong. That said, I don't seem to have any >problem >buying used CDs that have this sort of stamp on them: "For >Promotional Use >Only. Sale is Unlawful." > >What is the legal status of these promotional CDs? Is sale truly >unlawful, or do they just put the stamp on there? If selling it is >illegal, does that mean buying it is also illegal? Am I a hypocrite? > >--Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:10:00 -0400 From: Chris Murtland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? But, you can usually get away with driving 60 in a 55 zone Chris Murtland wrote: >I believe legally the promotional copy of the CD remains the >property of >the record label. Murtopolis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:12:25 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? > (I've ignored Sweet for years for no good reason > except that I placed him among all the other "New Rock Alternative" acts > I have little enthusiasm for. But I recently picked this out of a bargain > bin and think it's an excellent power pop record. I'm anxious to check > out his other stuff.) 100% FUN is by far my favorite Sweet album, but the consensus classic, which you should probably visit next, is GIRLFRIEND. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:25:38 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? I agree with Dan that GIRLFRIEND is the supposed masterpiece of the collection, my personal fave would probably be ALTERED BEAST. A little side note- 100% FUN is one of the few albums where I was glad that I decided to pay a bit extra to purchase the Japanese version rather than the regular one as one of the bonus tracks, Sense of Adventure is, imo, one of the best things on it! Richard > NP Matthew Sweet 100% FUN > > (I've ignored Sweet for years for no good reason > except that I placed him among all the other "New Rock Alternative" acts > I have little enthusiasm for. But I recently picked this out of a bargain > bin and think it's an excellent power pop record. I'm anxious to check > out his other stuff.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:19:44 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? What is the legal status of these promotional CDs? Is sale truly > unlawful, or do they just put the stamp on there? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as I know, there's never been a legal case to test this, so no one really knows if it's illegal or not. As far as I know, the only real issue w/buying promos v. buying used is that there are no artist royalties for promo copies of CDs. I generally try to avoid buying them (mainly for aesthetic reasons, to be honest), but I'll pick up a promo before the regular release of the CD and then buy the official issue. Sometimes this pays off, as with the Luna album that lost a track between promo and release. - --dana On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Michael Mitton writes: > OK, I'm not trying to start the "is MP3 swapping illegal/bad" > debate. > Suffice it to say that *I* think it's both illegal and, at least > under > most circumstances, wrong. That said, I don't seem to have any > problem > buying used CDs that have this sort of stamp on them: "For > Promotional Use > Only. Sale is Unlawful." > > What is the legal status of these promotional CDs? Is sale truly > unlawful, or do they just put the stamp on there? If selling it is > illegal, does that mean buying it is also illegal? Am I a > hypocrite? > > --Michael > > NP Matthew Sweet 100% FUN > > (I've ignored Sweet for years for no good reason > except that I placed him among all the other "New Rock Alternative" > acts > I have little enthusiasm for. But I recently picked this out of a > bargain > bin and think it's an excellent power pop record. I'm anxious to > check > out his other stuff.) > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:53:52 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? Michael Mitton wrote: > > OK, I'm not trying to start the "is MP3 swapping illegal/bad" debate. > Suffice it to say that *I* think it's both illegal and, at least under > most circumstances, wrong. I'm assuming you mean unauthorized MP3 swapping. Certainly if a band puts an MP3 up for free download on their page or their label's page or MP3.com, there is nothing illegal or wrong about copying and swapping it, as long as you don't charge people for copies. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:11:54 EDT From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dorian/Velvet Goldmine In a message dated 08/12/2002 7:18:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: > Has anyone here ever heard of a mid-70s New York rocker named Dorian > Passante? He released an album in 1977 called DORIAN. It's a pretty > bizarre glam-influenced album that mostly sounds improvised, or at least > arranged in an offhand manner (though the first two songs are really > great.) > If it's the same guy who was calling himself Dorian Zero, John Holstrom rakes him over the coals but good in an interview for Punk magazine, reprinted in the book "Punk: The Original", a collection of some of Punk's better moments. If the lyrics reprinted in the interview are any indication, Dorian sounds like he was awful enough to make Steve Harley seem like David Bowie. Makes my skin crawl to think about THAT. Oh, and in a not wholly-related note, I thought "Velvet Goldmine" sucked. You'd figure that by getting Ewan MacGregor, Christian Bale, Eddie Izzard and Toni Collette together in a Todd Haynes movie, someone could have come up with at least one non-cringe-inducing moment. Wait, I will concede that everyone looked great (unless that was the point - that glam looked great but had nothing else to recommend it, in which case...bravo, Todd, now give me my $7 back). That new Anniversary Edition of "Ziggy Stardust" is pretty nifty, though. Slow down, you're tay-king me ooo-vaaaah, Mike Bollman PS: in case anyone's interested, Volume 2 of the unbelievably great TV series "Get A Life" will be (re)released on DVD on September 10th, and it includes the beyond-words brilliance of Andrew Todd Keller's "Zoo Animals On Roller Skates". Really, it has to be seen and heard to be believed. Only "Jeepers Creepers Semi-Star" on "Mr. Show" has come close to matching it. Also, there will be a "Young Ones: Every Stoopid Episode" DVD box out around September 17th, with bonus material like episodes of "Filthy Rich & Catflap" and "Bottom" (both featuring Rik Mayall & Adrian Edmonson). Still waiting for a "Bad News"/"Comic Strip Presents" DVD, though. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:19:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Michael Mitton wrote: > most circumstances, wrong. That said, I don't seem to have any problem > buying used CDs that have this sort of stamp on them: "For Promotional Use > Only. Sale is Unlawful." > > What is the legal status of these promotional CDs? Is sale truly > unlawful, or do they just put the stamp on there? If selling it is > illegal, does that mean buying it is also illegal? Am I a hypocrite? If it's a used CD, I don't think it matters, ethically, whether it was a promo copy - the artist still isn't seeing any royalties (nor is anyone else). I see used promo copies all the time - and pretty clearly, the record companies are doing nothing to stop their sale. What I find amusing is the notion that they remain the property of the record company...as if the zillions of zine editors out there actually keep track of their distribution, as if any record company has ever tried getting them back (although I wonder: what about promo copies of the infamous Negativland _U2_ thingy?). In fact, last 4/1, there was a "news item" claiming that record labels had recalled all promo copies... As to the ethical question...well, I suppose you could argue that if the availability of a used copy prevents you from buying a new copy which you would otherwise be certain to buy, then the purchase of the used copy deprives the artist etc. of income they'd otherwise receive - and so, given the purported illegality of sales of promo copies, would be unethical if you think that scenario is unethical. However, it's really no different from buying any used copy - except for the purported illegality of whoever sold it to the used store in the first place having done so. And in many cases, CDs you'd buy used are not necessarily CDs you'd buy new, anyway. Further: you could argue the ethical question is better put toward whoever sold the CD, or the store: once it's in the used racks, nothing that happens to it is really going to make any difference, economically, for anyone else involved (except in the case where you would otherwise buy the new CD). That is, the little used promo CD sitting in the shelf is either going to be bought by you, bought by someone else, or turned out on the street to earn a living in whatever lowly and degrading means it can. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::[clever or pithy quote]:: __[source of quote]__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:45:41 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] The Rerun Show Is this any good? I work on weeknights, but maybe I could set the timer on the VCR if I figure it out. The premise is brilliant: groove and laugh at how the zeitgeist has changed by redoing old TV shows from ages past, getting a lethal dose of irony in the process. And you don't have to pay for any writers. Absolute genius. The only time that I can think of that something like this has been done before is when the Brady Bunch was done on Broadway, I think it was? - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:55:38 -0400 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? > I've ignored Sweet for years...I'm anxious to check out his other stuff. I'm not a hardcore fan, but I thought his 1999 album IN REVERSE was one of the very best pop albums of recent years despite the fact that it seems to be somewhat underrated even among his fans. Jer Help Save the Tongass National Forests! Help Today: http://www.care2.com/go/z/2394 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:13:05 -0700 From: Michael Zwirn Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Am I a Hypocrite? No, but how about Matthew Sweet? On 8/12/02 10:55 PM, jer fairall wrote: >> I've ignored Sweet for years...I'm anxious to check out his other stuff. > > I'm not a hardcore fan, but I thought his 1999 album IN REVERSE was one of the > very best pop albums of recent years despite the fact that it seems to be > somewhat underrated even among his fans. I agree; I thought it was great periodically, with some interestingly experimental (for him) elements. http://home.earthlink.net/~zwirnm/review70.htm#sweet - -------------------------------------- Michael J. Zwirn, Environmental Policy Analyst http://zwirn.com michael@zwirn.com Home: 503/232-8919 Cell: 503/887-9800 Fax: 503/232-0228 ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #274 *******************************