From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #238 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, July 9 2002 Volume 02 : Number 238 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Sweet F. A. ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? ["jer fairall" ] Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) [jenny grover ] RE: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) [Janet Ingraham Dwyer ] Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) [jenny grover ] [loud-fans] "Minority Report" research [Boyof100lists@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:22:01 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Michael Mitton writes: > Brenda Benson--Lapalco >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, I mostly just wanted to use that subject line, but it's Brendan, right? Or wrong? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:08:21 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Sweet F. A. > > "Desolation Boulevard" (which is half of the UK version stuck onto half >of > > the previous UK album, "Sweet Fanny Adams"). > >Which reminds me: as this phrase also occurs in a Momus song (Sweet Fanny >Adams), and as I have a vague memory of running into it elsewhere, I ask: >is this some sort of British talking dirty? Yes---it's code for "sweet fuck all" which means "nothing." Listen to the Who's LIVE AT LEEDS version of "Young Man Blues." "Sweet Fuck All" was Sweet's original name, by the way. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:13:22 -0400 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? I'm confident that these will make my year end list for sure: Christine Fellows, THE LAST ONE STANDING K's Choice, ALMOST HAPPY The Reputation, THE REPUTATION But I don't want to count out these yet: Elvis Costello, WHEN I WAS CRUEL Mates of State, OUR CONSTANT CONCERN Alanis Morissette, UNDER RUG SWEPT The Mountain Goats, ALL HAIL WEST TEXAS Seafood, WHEN DO WE START FIGHTING Vermont, CALLING ALBANY Of course, the new Aimee Mann and Guided By Voices could change things when I hear them. Jer Will antibiotics work in 20 years? End the misuse of Antibiotics: http://www.care2.com/go/z/1425 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:30:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Dana Paoli wrote: > > Brenda Benson--Lapalco > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Ok, I mostly just wanted to use that subject line, but it's Brendan, > right? Or wrong? Right. While this would be a good time to step up and accept responsibility for my typing error, I am instead going to blame those folks at chat who kept me up until 11:30! - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:14:32 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) At 11:30 AM 07/08/2002 -0400, Michael Mitton wrote: >Right. While this would be a good time to step up and accept >responsibility for my typing error, I am instead going to blame those >folks at chat who kept me up until 11:30! Oh sure. What Michael meant to type (we all know he's good at typographical errors now!) is that he kept us up until 2:30 a.m. chatting last night! Oooh, my aching head. janet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:25:01 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] curious (please respond off the list) I came across something that interested me in a car magazine, and I was wondering if anyone on the list has seen one of these, knows someone who has one, and/or if they could possibly give me any type of first hand consumer information on them: There is a Canadian company, called Feel Good Cars, that has scoured the land looking for all remaining restorable Renault Dauphines from the 1950s, and reissuing them as the "Dauphine Electirc." (slower than a pre-1966 VW Beetle, I think that is a Renault Dauphine in the Beatles movie "Help" in that kidnapping scene). They are extremely cute and cuddly, and I was wondering if you've seen one of these running around, probably in California for sure, since they have been restored and given electric motors, and Californians love unusual/eco-friendly cars like that. I've never seen one in the Southeast, EVER. You're considered a hippie pinko commie if you don't drive an SUV or a truck with a Confederate or American flag on the back (lol, just kidding). These colors don't run, especially on electricity, - -Mark Staples np Allen Clapp "Available Light" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:31:12 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) >Right. While this would be a good time to step up and accept >responsibility for my typing error, I am instead going to blame those >folks at chat who kept me up until 11:30! Hey you folks stayed up that late (PT) and nobody posted to the list about it once? No fair! I went to bed right after the first hour of "Sounds Eclectic," Andy "It was freezing. It was three in the morning. I was exhausted. Tobey was dizzy because he had been hanging upside down for hours. He said 'I can't breathe, so kiss me quickly'. So, it looked sexy and hot, but in-between each take I was shivering and praying it would be over. I guess you just had to snap out of it and go for it." - --Kirsten Dunst on the inside story of that famous SPIDER-MAN kiss, from http://us.imdb.com/NewsFeatures/kdunst ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:33:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] D.FILM Digital Movie for loud-fans On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 sleeveless@citynet.net wrote: > jen grover created a digital movie for you! > You can view it at the following URL: > > http://mm.dfilm.com/mm2s/mm_route.php?id=123019 nice. Scott's lyrics make good abstract film dialogue, for some reason. Anybody else wanna play? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:21:25 -0400 From: "Brian Block" Subject: [loud-fans] re: half-year music lists Definitely going to be on my year-end list: Biscuit Boy a/k/a Crackerman, FAT CHANCE (which, again, is the sudden new peak of seemingly past- prime Beautiful South/ Housemartins leader Paul Heaton) Wilco, YANKEE HOTEL FOXTROT ... good candidates for my year-end list: Alanis Morissette, UNDER RUG SWEPT Rasputina, CABIN FEVER! ... also likeable: Bob Geldof, SEX, AGE + DEATH (but i'd rather see the title used for a They Might Be Giants cd, somehow) Dave Kerman + 5uu's, ABANDONSHIP (their 2000 cd REGARDING PURGATORIES has become one of my favorite avant-rock cd's -- this one is still excellent, but it's more avant and less rock, and i still own two Bon Jovi albums for chrissake) Super Furry Animals, RINGS AROUND THE WORLD Sweepers, HUNDRED HEARTS 90 Day Men, TO EVERYTHING Also, did everyone else who subscribed to the Loud-fan digest stop receiving list mail somewhere in May? Or was that special for me? - -Brian Care2 make the world greener! Will antibiotics work in 20 years? End the misuse of Antibiotics: http://www.care2.com/go/z/1425 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:18:17 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) Andrew Hamlin wrote: > Hey you folks stayed up that late (PT) and nobody posted to the list about > it once? No fair! Yeah, really! I looked at the posts, saw no chat announcement, and dejectedly went to do something else. :( Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:35:57 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? > Isn't it time to run through our favorites of the year so far? > > In no particular order: > > Wilco--Yankee Hotel Foxtrot > Pedro the Lion--Control > Brenda Benson--Lapalco > Gomez--In Our Gun > Neil Halstead--Sleeping on Roads > Goo Goo Dolls--Gutterflowers > GbV--Universal Truths & Cycles > > --Michael A couple of weeks ago this was looking rather thin - at least in part due to the amount of time & money I was spending on filling gaps via eBay. However, P76 - Into the Sun Aussie power pop. Knocks Gurus/Someloves/Hummingbirds (yes even them!) into a cocked hat. Breeders - Title TK Just keeps growing and growing... Daryll-Ann - Trailer Tales Not their best (see Weeps) but still far superior to most albums that'll be released this year. They write more meaningful lyrics in English than most bands for whom English is their 1st language. Church - After Everything, Now This Beautiful Wilco - YHF Beautifully understated, rather like the Breeders. Maybe it's the year of the understated album for a change. I could live with that! Someone also released a live album recently that was passable.... can't remember who though. Disappointments Weezer - Maladroit The album is OK, good in parts. But what's all that rubbish about the video clips? Awful sound and only half a track at a time. They only put me off the idea of ever going to see the band play live. Chuck Prophet - No Other Love Only just got this so I may be being a bit presumptuous (Breeders took me quite a while to get going with). It's got some good stuff on, but compared to his best - the album with him leaning on the hood of the car in the driveway, Homemade Blood I think - it doesn't cut the mustard. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:08:50 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? A first-half short-list: A*Teens: Pop 'Til You Drop! Garnet Crow: Sparkle Tommy Keene: The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down Mistle Thrush: Drunk With You Pedro the Lion: Control The Reputation: The Reputation Starlet: When Sun Falls on My Feet Mary Timony: The Golden Dove Tullycraft: Beat Surf Fun Anna Waronker: Anna and based on advance singles I'm also expecting much from imminent albums by Every Little Thing, Emm Gryner, Idlewild and Hitomi Yaida. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:26:09 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? I spent most of my money this year on dirt and bricks, so this is a kind of lame list. Wish that I could include the Safe Home CD (it's nice, but won't convert anyone) and the Damon & Naomi live thing (note to D&N: remember that album that you put out way in the distant past called "More Sad Hits"? Just checking...). 1. Enon "High Society" 2. Sonic Youth "Murray Street" 3. Luna "Romantica" 4. Comet Gain "Realistes!" 5. Breeders "Title TK" 6. Imperial Teen "On" - --dana np: Go Betweens, thanks to the man with two f's. Thanks!! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:39:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? No order yet.... Gomez - In Our Gun GBV - Universal Truths And Cycles ("Skin Parade" alone is worth the price of admission) Mistle Thrush - Drunk With You Bob Mould - Modulate Kylie Minogue - Fever (the US version, never thought I would get a dance pop album like this and LIKE it) Sonic Youth - Murray Street Local H - Here Comes The Zoo ...and I'm sure a couple others I can't remember right now. Disappointed: Our Lady Peace - Gravity (sounds like Creed without the overt Christian element) The Gentlemen - Blondes Prefer The Gentlemen (it's OK, but not as 'immediate' as the first record was) Phil F. NP.... in my head Manic Street Preachers "Intravenous Agnostic" - --- Michael Mitton wrote: > Isn't it time to run through our favorites of the > year so far? > > In no particular order: > > Wilco--Yankee Hotel Foxtrot > Pedro the Lion--Control > Brenda Benson--Lapalco > Gomez--In Our Gun > Neil Halstead--Sleeping on Roads > Goo Goo Dolls--Gutterflowers > GbV--Universal Truths & Cycles > > --Michael Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:54:57 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) A thousand pardons for not announcing the loud-chat last night. It would be mean to use the excuse that the conversation was so fascinating and rapid-fire that no one could bear to switch windows for the minute it would take to post to the list. So instead I will claim simple thoughtlessness and lack of practice, as I usually do. Of course, folks are always simply free to fight their way through DALnet and just see for themselves if anyone's there. You never know who or what you may find. janet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? I'm pretty darn pathetic about new releases these days (or could it be that the NR's are...)anyway, I think these first 2 might be 2002: 1.Brendan Benson-Lapalco (cute,but great) 2.Stephin Merritt-Eban & Charley soundtrack (not cute at all,but very precious. Most people hate this kind of precious but I truly love this man's work) 3.Flying Burrito Bros.-The Gilded Palace of Sin (yeah, I know...1968,but it's new to me!) 4.KIng Crimson-Red (1974, but I just got the remastered version and this record is most definitely in my all time top 5 as far as drumming influence goes) 5.Reivers-Saturday (recent reissue,as I've stated before, Kim Longacre makes me longingly ache..) 6.Deep Purple-Shades of...and The Book of Taliesyn (I like the way they do Neil Diamond and I think Ritchie Blackmore's playing is truly awesome...too bad about the Beatles covers tho..) 7.Bobby Troup-Sings Johnny Mercer (way old, but new to me.You may remember him from the tv show Emergency, but not only was the guy married to Julie London, he wrote Route 66! Nothing but way cool vocal stylings. Back in the day when Scott actually worked with me at City Hall Records, this was in plat stock constantly and Scott will still bust out with a little Troup every now and then!) 8.Danger Diabolik soundtrack-(sounds like this was recorded off the laser disc. Probably not authorized, but great 60's Italian spy music) 9.Oh yeah! Loud Family-From Rituals to Romance (I shamelessly love this record! Not only is it the only documentation of Mike Tittel's drumming, I think it has the definitive version of Deee-pression.) Gil Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:40:25 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Half-year lists? not in order except #1: 1. Ilkae - Pistachio Island 45 tracks, 64 minutes, glitches and hooks galore 2. Sonic Youth - Murray Street now Jim O'Rourke's joining up makes sense 3. Boards of Canada - Geogaddi oscillator drift never sounded so good 4. Club 8 - Spring Came, Rain Fell beautiful Swedish pop things I haven't heard yet but have high hopes for: Loud Family - FRTR Speedy J - Loudboxer - -- Dave Walker freeform radio and live, nude fish at: http://www.freeke.org/ffg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:14:36 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bren or Brenda? (ns) Janet Ingraham Dwyer wrote: > > Of course, folks are always simply free to fight their way through DALnet > and just see for themselves if anyone's there. You never know who or what > you may find. True, but we never know anymore whether to check DALnet or Eskimo. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:46:13 -0700 From: "GrantB" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Half-year lists I've got to put Wilco's YHF at the top so far. I also echo Richard's sentiments about Weezer - Maladroit. I really wanted to like it but haven't been able to pull it off so far and frankly I've stopped trying. I'd like to hear the same songs produced like someone cared and see if I like it any better then. Other than that, I'm a little bit slow and everything I've really liked lately is last year's stuff. I actually feel good about being only 1 year behind. Grant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:12:07 EDT From: Boyof100lists@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] "Minority Report" research This has a reasonably good chance of already having been covered on the list, but I thought this may interest: To see this story with its related links on the MediaGuardian.co.uk site, go to http://www.mediaguardian.co.uk This ad's for you Steven Spielberg's new film is set in a future world where people are happy to divulge personal information in return for a crime-free society. The spin-off for advertisers is that they can target individuals. But, says Gillian Drummond, some of the concepts are already coming true Gillian Drummond Sunday June 23 2002 The Observer Tom Cruise walks past a line of moving, talking ads as he is courted by Guinness and Lexus to buy their pints and cars. They know his name and all his particulars because their ads are triggered by iris-scanning. According to the group of US experts who acted as advisers to Steven Spielberg's latest film, this is what advertising will be like in 2054. In Minority Report, Spielberg has created a world where, thanks to a unit of psychics run by "pre-crime detective" John Anderton (Cruise), murder is prevented before it happens. The movie is not only an exploration of the potential of precognition, but a glimpse of how a consumer-based society - in this case Washington DC - might function in 50 years' time; a place where advertising and branding play an important role. And it's not entirely fiction. During pre-production, the film's crew got together a thinktank of what they called "futurists" - specialists in computing, transport and the environment, plus staff from Wired magazine and Douglas Coupland, author of Generation X. In a two-day brainstorming session in April 1999, the group came up with ideas on how the US might look and function in 2054. One of their premises was that the public would be willing to give up a lot of personal information in return for a crime-free society. The boon to advertisers is obvious: people's identities become public property, and advertising is highly targeted at individuals. Add to that some hi-tech concepts and a lot of computer wizardry and the film becomes an adfest, a world where every surface is a billboard and every sell is precise. The iris-scanning that sets ads in motion is as all-pervasive in Spielberg's world as security scanners in shop doorways are today. We see digitally imaged 3D ads wrapped around the sides of buildings. Cars carry advertising inside and out (while driving, Cruise's character is shown images on a screen of dream beaches, enticing him on a holiday to Hawaii.) When he pours breakfast cereal from a box, the package plays a jingle. On the run after the psychics have a vision of him killing someone, Anderton carries a newspaper whose images and headlines move as he looks at them. Some of the ideas are not a huge stretch of the imagination. Anyone who surfs the net is subject to pop-up ads and targeted messages. And in the US, some brands are paying people to drive cars with their logos on and "wrapped" with their ads. And this, says Alex McDowell, the film's production designer, was the intention - to come up with concepts that would be novel yet believable. "Steven really wanted the audience to feel the familiarity of all of these things. He didn't want to make a sci-fi movie but a future reality movie." McDowell says an "unprecedented" amount of work went into researching the world of Minority Report, which is based on a short story by sci-fi author Philip K Dick. The producers even hired an advertising agency, 3 Ring Circus, to make the ads that appear in the film. "We had a blast," says Anne White, the agency's former executive producer and now managing director of TAG, a creative branding company in Los Angeles. The agency worked on some of the ideas put forward by the think tank, and the storyboards were sent to the product placement brands appearing in the film - among them Guinness, American Express, Aquafina, Reebok, Pepsi and Bvlgari. But whereas these corporate sponsors would usually see a clip of the film and OK it, there was no such agreement with Minority Report. Advertisers were shown storyboards but no clips, and ultimately Spielberg and the film's distributors, 20th Century Fox, had the say on how the brands appeared. Not only that, the sponsors' normal ad agencies were left powerless and sometimes frustrated by their lack of input. "It was a huge leap of faith," says White. "But the reactions were pretty unanimous - everyone liked the concepts." What they didn't bank on was that during the time it took to make the film, some of their ideas were starting to happen. "We looked at the use of holographic-type billboards that give a 3-D effect. Then about nine months ago in LA I saw an ad for a car where, as you walked past it, the car disappeared," says White. Identification by iris-scanning is already used in airports, including Heathrow. So, in theory, all the technological components are there to take iris-scanning into the realm of advertising. But there are a few hitches. "What the technology can't do currently is reliably identify someone from a distance," says Mike Thieme, senior consultant with the International Biometric Group in New York, which helps prisons and employers install biometric scanners that read faces, irises and fingers for security purposes. Face recognition can happen at up to 20 feet, he says, but for successful iris-scanning the subject has to be within three feet of the scanner. They also need to be cooperative, looking at a camera with the intention of being recognised. Thieme is sceptical about whether people would want in-your-face advertising as happens in Minority Report. "The idea of walking down the street and being pulled out of a crowd and having advertising pointed at you, right now that would be seen as highly invasive." John Underkoffler, one of the "futurists" and a science and technology consultant on the film, acknowledges the difficulties. The use of iris-scanning to advertise is possibly further off than 3D billboards, he says. "There are myriad problems with that kind of identification - for example if the person is blinking at the time, or turned away." But he says some of his colleagues at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology - where production designer McDowell first met Underkoffler during research for the film - have been testing the idea of electronic, self-reprinting paper, as used by the futuristic newspaper in the film. "We were suggesting [in the film] that any surface would be capable of display, and almost anything is fair game for advertising," says Underkoffler. But he is worried by the civil liberty implications of personal information becoming public property. "It's not something that's easy to stop. That kind of advertising will ride along with advances in biometrics. And why wouldn't the FBI want to make a quick few bucks selling people's identities to Guinness or Lexus?" Moreover, with security such a hot issue, Underkoffler thinks the American public have become less likely to resist such developments. "I think we are at a tipping point. With the awful events of last September there's all sorts of legislation that will further erode civil liberties and people don't seem to be paying much attention. People are a little more willing to give away their freedom." But media experts agree that being able to work with that sort of information and develop such highly targeted commercials is an advertiser's wet dream. "Everyone wants to get directly to their audience," says White. "Why waste your money on people that aren't interested in what you're selling? When the advertiser knows you, some people are going to like it and some are going to hate it. Yes, there's the scary Big Brother thing. But I personally don't want to have to watch adverts for incontinency pads, at least until I'm ready for them." Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #238 *******************************