From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #218 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, June 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 218 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Labels to webcasters - Fornicate U! [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) ["John Sharples" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:21:37 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... In a message dated 6/20/02 6:11:53 PM, john.cooper@pobox.com writes: << The Bush administration suggested the terminology change, and Fox News immediately said they'd implement it. This was a few weeks ago; I haven't heard anything further, such as other news institutions following suit. >> Ari Fleischer first used the term "homicide bomber" last April during a press briefing, which was noted in several news reports at the time. We might also consider that the term "homicide bomber" acquires some usefulness when CNN--founded and still controlled by a man with a long (and long-ignored) history of anti-Semitic remarks--actually does news reports where they list the suicide bomber as among the actual victims of the bombing. (I used to have a link to that swell moment in journalism, but I can't find it. James Taranto's column at the National Review site should show it in a search.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:27:27 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Labels to webcasters - Fornicate U! On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 09:14 PM, John Cooper wrote: > Does this mean that my favorite Internet radio stations suddenly have > to pay for four years' worth of broadcasting even if they had no reason > to expect such a fee when they started out? Yes. Expect most to fold. - -- Dave Walker freeform radio and live, nude fish at: http://www.freeke.org/ffg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:36:35 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More evil actions from the record companies Stewart: One could argue that this was >price-fixing if one felt like getting into yet another music industry rant, >which I don't particularly. From what pathetically little I learned about antitrust this past semester, I think you could have illegal price-fixing as above, even without actual communication among the majors...I think it's called "price leadership," Mitton would know. The only problem is that CDs* are not, in fact, always sold at an artificially-inflated price. The $18 list price is obscene, and believe me, I'd love to see the Department of Justice go after these humps, but the fact is CDs are always being offered at "sale" and discount prices (I myself just picked up a bunch from the Columbia $7.99 bin at Tower somebody recently mentioned here), so the majors would have a very strong showing of actual competition in their defense. JS *OK, I'm convinced that CDs is correct by the point about confusion with the possessive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:31:21 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... J.R.: >Ari Fleischer first used the term "homicide bomber" last April during a press >briefing, which was noted in several news reports at the time. Well, it's fine if the administration wants to use specious language, because they're politicans. The problem isn't that it was "noted," but rather *adopted* by media outlets with a conservative agenda. We might also >consider that the term "homicide bomber" acquires some usefulness when >CNN--founded and still controlled by a man with a long (and long-ignored) >history of anti-Semitic remarks--actually does news reports where they list >the suicide bomber as among the actual victims of the bombing. We might consider it, and then rightly reject it. It's still useless, because it injects politics at the expense of clarity ("Oh, no, a homicide bomber? I wonder if it was one of those suicide types?"), and does nothing to remedy the problem you perceive with CNN. See, the bomber is quite properly identified as a victim of the bombing -- hence the long-established term "suicide victim." For clarity, of course, the responsible reporter should simply mention that the bomber is being counted among the victims. Anyway, to be convinced that CNN is siding with the Palestinians because Turner hates the Jews (which very well may be true, I have no particular love for CNN), I'll need something with a bit more heft. JS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:35:11 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More evil actions from the record companies At 05:10 PM 6/20/2002 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >I see mall CD stores charging $17-20/CD - but why would anyone pay that >much, when indie stores charge $3-5 less than that? Same reason people pay four bucks for a gallon of milk at the 7-11 on the corner rather than drive two blocks to the supermarket where it costs $2.25. Never underestimate the profit to be made from people's laziness. S NP: FABLES -- Four Jacks and a Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:24:26 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... In a message dated 6/20/02 7:26:14 PM, jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu writes: << Well, it's fine if the administration wants to use specious language, because they're politicans. The problem isn't that it was "noted," but rather *adopted* by media outlets with a conservative agenda. >> I don't see how "homicide bomber" serves a conservative agendabalthough I like the idea of Israel being a conservative country. If the issue is clarity, then the term certainly sums up the intent (and results) of the bomber better than "suicide bomber." On the rare happy occasion where the bomber blows up without any other casualties, then we can always go with "attempted homicide bomber." As for "suicide victim," I've never heard the term used when describing someone who kills himself in the midst of killing many others. It would certainly be unusual for a news report to use the term when describing an estranged husband who stalks his wife before killing both her and himself. It's just as strange when news reports give terrorists equal status to their victims. << to be convinced that CNN is siding with the Palestinians because Turner hates the Jews (which very well may be true, I have no particular love for CNN), I'll need something with a bit more heft. >> There's certainly a lot more to CNN's bias than Ted Turner's personal dislike for Jews. To learn more, visit your local library. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:30:23 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More evil actions from the record companies > Same reason people pay four bucks for a gallon of milk at the 7-11 > on the > corner rather than drive two blocks to the supermarket where it > costs > $2.25. Never underestimate the profit to be made from people's > laziness. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I'm still trying to figure out is why a 12oz can of Coke, a 16oz bottle of Coke and a 2 liter bottle of Coke can all be bought for $1.00 each, within two blocks of my house. Wow, just finished our first barbecue with our new grill and I have to say that there are few things that make me happier to be alive in these days than the Light Life company, whose veggie burgers (actually tempe, I think) and hot dogs (Smart Dogs) are really stunningly good. Come to think of it, Silk is also (IMHO) a quantum advance in soymilk technology, especially the chocolate flavor. What a great time to be a vegetarian. As for overpriced: breakfast cereal is overpriced. Once we get that straightened out, I'll start worrying about CDs. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:56:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More evil actions from the record companies On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, John Sharples wrote: > Anyway, can we please bring back the apostrophe, such as with CD's, above? > I mean, you wouldn't write Oakland As, would you? If you think of the term > CD's as a contraction, then the apostrophe is appropriate. Anyway, it looks > awkward without it. I think it looks awkward *with* it. Apostrophes denote either possession or missing letter(s) in contractions - the plural of an initialization (like CD) is neither. I don't know what Chicago says - but MLA says no on apostrophes in that situation - except (as with "Oakland A's") when it might be confusing. I don't really know what's supposed to be confusing about "dos and don'ts" - is a reader likely to think the first is Spanish for "two"? At any rate, as a heuristic I would discourage the use of apostrophes for any but their intended use - as confusion over their placement is rampant. This confuses me: it's not that complicated...although, that word ("it's") is the chief vector of confusion, I think - since the possessive is the form that *doesn't* take the apostrophe, as one might expect, given only the set of regular noun plurals. Regardless, it's a common practice: witness "The dB's" and "the B-52's"... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::[clever or pithy quote]:: __[source of quote]__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:01:16 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 10:24 PM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > I don't see how "homicide bomber" serves a conservative > agendaalthough I > like the idea of Israel being a conservative country. If the issue is > clarity, then the term certainly sums up the intent (and results) of the > bomber better than "suicide bomber." Suicide bomber is simply a better description of the acts taking place in Israel. People who mail or place bombs are homicide bombers. People who aim to kill only themselves with bombs are suicides. People who blow themselves up in order to kill others are suicide bombers. Pretty clear, really. (I would point out that the Israelis place bombs to kill people, and accidently got 5 schoolboys not too long ago. I guess they were *negligent* homicide, or maybe manslaughter, bombers). Homicide or Murder bomber is inaccurate, and is an obvious attempt to gain the political high ground. I can't see why they would bother, considering public opinion in the U.S. I wonder if Ari was freelancing? Best I can tell, it's only the Bush flacks and right wing crazies who have picked up the new term. - - Steve __________ I know that it's cynical, but I feel that civil liberties-for a lot of these people in Congress-are either an inconvenience or a campaign slogan. They care only about money and power. - Wil Wheaton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:09:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, John Sharples wrote: > I noticed the NEW YORK POST offered a headline about the latest "homicide > bombing" in Israel. I despise this trend of calling the suicide bombers > "homicide bombers." It's such empty, self-righteous rhetoric. (I had heard > Bush was using the term. Is that true?) We *know* they're homicidal, we > presume that about people who detonate powerful bombs in crowded public areas. > It's the fact that they're also suicidal that distinguishes them and makes > them especially insidious and dangerous. As someone else commented, this change in terminology was suggested by the Bush Administration. And it makes my skin crawl. It seems essentially redundant, for one thing: except for cases in which bombs are intended solely to destroy property, the homicide part can pretty well be assumed. What makes a suicide bomber distinctive is exactly the suicide part (as Sharples says): that the bomber is willing to off himself (or herself) along with the usual victims that comprise any bomb's destiny. As Richard Butler would have said around thirty times each, it's "stupid" and "useless." What really makes my skin crawl is the abjection with which the media licks up the disgusting piddle fed to it by the White House. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::"Shut up, you truculent lout, and let the cute little pixie sing!":: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:14:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Labels to webcasters - Fornicate U! On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Dave Walker wrote: > The rates are final, and they are not pretty. > > http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html > > The goofiest aspect of the decision, as I read it (I am not > a lawyer, naturally) is that the basis of the 8.8% royalty > rate seems to be the fact that broadcasters have to produce > intermediate files at the correct bitrate to broadcast, and the > labels argued that these intermediate bitrate files have some > intrinsic financial value. > > Which is, excuse my Frangais BOO-WALL-SHEET, but hey, > the DMCA is the law of the land, and we just live here. And the most idiotic, stupidest aspect of this entirely stupid and idiotic decision is this: *we* may live here, but the internet doesn't. So all this regulation does is prohibit US businesses and individuals from competing in the internet radio marketplace - since Joe Canuck can blithely proceed to upload to his heart's content (unless there's some dumbass NAFTA/GATT complication here), and we can listen to www.joecanuck.co.ca to ours. Expect record labels to launch their own promotional internet radio stations soon - since no one else will be able to afford it. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:00:12 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) In a message dated 6/20/02 9:01:47 PM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: << Best I can tell, it's only the Bush flacks and right wing crazies who have picked up the new term. >> The term "homicide bomber" is also very popular in that paradise for right-wing crazies that we call Israelbthe same country which, after all, originated the term. But what do they know about bombers? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:16:46 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More evil actions from the record companies >I don't really know what's supposed to be confusing about "dos and don'ts" - >is a reader likely to think the first is Spanish for "two"? Consciously? No. Unconsciously? Probably, or something like it. It's a stumbling block for the reading eye--the sort of thing that typographers consider it their duty to alleviate. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:29:54 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 12:00 AM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > The term "homicide bomber" is also very popular in that paradise for > right-wing crazies that we call Israel,the same country which, after > all, > originated the term. So that's where Ari got it. And there are plenty of right-wing crazies in Israel, they're called settlers. But we were talking about the use of the term in the U.S. - - Steve __________ It is white." - George Bush, when asked what the White House is like by a student at Morningside Primary School in Hackney, East London. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:10:51 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) steve: >> The term "homicide bomber" is also very popular in that paradise for >> right-wing crazies that we call Israel,the same country which, after >> all originated the term. > >So that's where Ari got it. Right, and while it's perfectly understandable that the Israelis would use the term, that's precisely why it's probably inappropriate for the U.S. goverment, in its role as moderator in the conflict, to replace the perfectly neutral term "suicide bombers" with the obviously partisan term. J.R.: >I don't see how "homicide bomber" serves a conservative agenda Pardon the vernacular, but, duh. No one said it did. But when supposedly-independent media outlets like THE POST and Fox News adopt a loaded, partisan term coined by a Republican administration, they look like shills. JS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:11:59 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) In a message dated 6/20/02 10:30:52 PM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: << But we were talking about the use of the term in the U.S. >> You weren't aware that "homicide bomber" is an Israeli term, so you haven't understood the use of the term in the U.S. When Ari Fleischer began using the words, it was a sign of support for a country that our President considers to be a beleaguered democracy under terrorist attack. That's why Fleischer's use of "homicide bomber" made the news back in April. Personally, I agree that Israel is a beleaguered democracy under terrorist attack. I'm glad that the White House is showing support, and I'm also pleased when American media outlets consider Israel's own definition of the violence inflicted upon its people. Others, of course, would like to see less support or understanding of Israel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:25:28 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) In a message dated 6/20/02 11:05:55 PM, jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu writes: << Pardon the vernacular, but, duh. No one said it did. But when supposedly-independent media outlets like THE POST and Fox News adopt a loaded, partisan term coined by a Republican administration, they look like shills. >> At risk of repeating myself, "homicide bomber" wasn't coined by a Republican administration. Ari Fleischer's use of the Israeli term was a bold sign of support for a democracy under attack by terrorists. There certainly seems to be enough Democratic support for Israel to keep the use of that term from being partisan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:48:33 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Ranting at random... (NS) On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 01:11 AM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > You weren't aware that "homicide bomber" is an Israeli term, so you > haven't > understood the use of the term in the U.S. When Ari Fleischer began > using the > words, it was a sign of support for a country that our President > considers to > be a beleaguered democracy under terrorist attack. That's why > Fleischer's use > of "homicide bomber" made the news back in April. So the Bush administration decided to use an inaccurate term to signal its shift to supporting Israel more strongly than it had before. I tend not to bother listening to what they have to say, is Ari still using it? Or was it dropped when they came up with the currently on hold provisional statehood plan? But I understood the aim, if not the source. > Personally, I agree that Israel is a beleaguered democracy under > terrorist > attack. I'm glad that the White House is showing support, and I'm also > pleased when American media outlets consider Israel's own definition of > the > violence inflicted upon its people. What happened to "fair and balanced" or "we report, you decide"? > Others, of course, would like to see less support or understanding of > Israel. Needless to say, understanding may not lead to support. - - Steve __________ I know that it's cynical, but I feel that civil liberties-for a lot of these people in Congress-are either an inconvenience or a campaign slogan. They care only about money and power. - Wil Wheaton ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #218 *******************************