From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #210 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, June 14 2002 Volume 02 : Number 210 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] Organinzing that first CD ["John Sharples" ] Re: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD ["John Sharples" ] Re: [loud-fans] Aimee and Scott [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) [Carolyn Dorsey ] Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground [Roger Winston ] RE: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) ["Paul Seeman" ] Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD At 02:17 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, Michael Mitton wrote: >None. But the related question: How many CDs have you bought because you >forgot you already owned it? About 10. I never, no not ever, had this happen until after the Great CD Theft of 1995. I still know whether or not I've owned a given title, but if I had it before May 1995, I'm usually not 100% sure on whether there's a copy in my collection *now.* I pretty much know what was taken, but I'm always far less certain about what I've replaced. Ex: I see the Pixies' BOSSANOVA (all Pixies titles were stolen) for $4 in a used bin, I buy it thinking "cool, I got a cheap replacement copy," and when I return to my abode, I discover that I had already gotten a cheap replacement copy via a BMG sale. Other Loud-Fans usually benefit from this memory glitch. CDs rebought because of remastering, bonus tracks, etc.: I couldn't even begin to count 'em. It's far easier for me to tell you that I'm content with my Ryko Bowies and Costellos, and haven't been tempted to buy the re-re-mastered sets. First CD purchase: When Rykodisc came out with Hendrix LIVE AT WINTERLAND as a CD-only release in 1987 (about a year later I discovered that there was an import vinyl version), I decided to succumb and asked my mother to let me pick out a CD player for my birthday. I decided to test store players & systems not with what they had on hand, or with the new Hendrix CD with which I was not familiar, but with CDs I knew inside-out. So I picked up Peter Gabriel's SECURITY and R.E.M.'s LIFES RICH PAGEANT. I remember salespeople always wanted to play demo copies of Led Zep (for some reason, III was the one they all seemed to have), which was boneheaded on their part because it was readily apparent to me that the original Zep CDs hadn't been remastered at all from the LP masters, and consequently sounded like crap, and made their expensive stereo gear sound like crap too. They sure should have realized it after I'd slap on SECURITY in its DDD glory -- for years, it was the best-sounding CD I owned. On a related topic, I own two computer games that won't run (or at least run well) on my current computers. I bought CIVILIZATION III in the limited edition tin, and got FALLOUT TACTICS because CompUSA ran a special on it where I paid only $6 for the full retail edition of it (vs. the inevitable bargain bin release, which will cut corners by substituting a .pdf file for a printed manual). Need a P300 for both, and my fastest machine is a PII-266. I've always accumulated games while hanging behind the technology curve before: 10Mhz XT to 486, 486 to P166, and now hand-me-down PII-266 to whatever I'll end up buying or lucking into next time. Alphabetizing: By artist, then chronology. All Various Artists and soundtracks (aside from single-artist soundtracks like Gabriel's BIRDY and PASSION and Richard Thompson's SWEET TALKER) go at the end. Classical is by itself, by composer. Short before long, so M's NEW YORK LONDON PARIS MUNICH is the first "M." Chuck D, Sheila E, Simon F are at the front of their respective final initials, though if there was an artist going by, say, "Fred M," he'd still be behind M (short before long). ASCII order be damned, numbers get spelled out (10,000 Maniacs is stored as "Ten Thousand Maniacs"), and the Celtic M', Mac, and Mc all get treated as "Mac" (I'm not doctrinaire on this, but this is how my mom taught me, so doing otherwise would complicate things for me. offers some backup here, though the APA has gone the other way). Paul McCartney and Wings albums are with the albums attributed to Paul McCartney alone. Dukes of Stratosphear and Ciccone Youth under "D" and "C." Captain Beefheart is a "C." Jason & the Scorchers go under "J," but if it had been "Jason Ringenberg & the Scorchers," it'd go straight to the "R"s. Jason's first solo album, from the early '90s, is now problematic. He went just by "Jason" at the time, but over the last three years, he's cranked out two more solo albums under the name "Jason Ringenberg." I've avoided making a decision until now since the "Jason" record has been with the J&tS stuff forever, and the first Ringenberg solo record has been in the "current stuff" locations (in the car or by the stereo). But since the 2000 release is now making its way upstairs to the alpha shelves and the 2001 one will graduate from the car and downstairs shelving to join it in the alpha files in 2002 or 2003, I'll have to decide soon. I think all three belong together, so I'm leaning toward moving the Jason record to the "Rs" to keep company with its late-model solo bretheren. Anyone seeking an alphabetizing tiebreaker between the hypothetical Our Scott solo album and the solo work of ex-V-Roy Scott Miller might want to bear in mind that the latter Scott's first name is "Allen." He went by "Scott" all his life except when he went to college at William & Mary, where he used "Allen" -- his way of distancing his true self from the high-falootin' W&M crowd (are there other public colleges as elitist and snotty as W&M and UVA?). And to start his post-V-Roys career, through most of 2000 Scott went by "A. Scott Miller" to distinguish himself from Our Scott, the 6 String Drag Scott Miller, and god knows how many other musical Scott Millers. But before the year of the deuce and three noughts was out, he was sick of the "A." and dropped the initial. The change of his domain from http://www.ascottmiller.com to http://www.thescottmiller.com was a product of this as well as a play on articles. I imagine Tommy Womack saying "you're THE Scott Miler to me, bay-bee!" planted the seed. Metaphorically. Looking forward to Larry's Other Scott show report (maybe a recording too?), Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:20:15 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground At 07:40 AM 6/14/2002 -0700, John Cooper wrote: >It was 1992 for me, well past the time when LPs outnumbered CDs in >stores. I signed up for one of those mail-order club deals so I could >start with 15 CDs at once. That initial shipment contained a >defective copy of k.d. lang's "Shadowland" with a visible black >glitch in the pressing--the only unplayable CD I bought for several >years, and still the most severe. Until this very year, the only one I had with a manufacturing fault that rendered the disc unplayable was one of the first 30 I bought: Bruce Springsteen's TUNNEL OF LOVE. The Tuesday it came out, I drove from college to the local mall (about an hour round-trip) to get it, but since my CD player was at home, I couldn't listen to it until that weekend. I'm always very up for a new Bruuuuuce, and "Brilliant Disguise" had honed my anticipation to a keen edge. So when I got home that Friday afternoon, I went straight to my room, popped in the CD, and heard Bruce sing: "I got the mansions of heav heav heav heav whup whup whup whup whup whup whup whup whup whup" Since I wasn't expecting the CD equivalent of METAL MACHINE MUSIC's locked groove, I figured something was wrong. The disc had a single indentation about the size of a push button on a digital watch. Had to wait till Sunday to take it back to the store on my way back to school, and then another five days to come back home and actually hear the whole thing. Then everything worked fine for nearly 14 years. But earlier this year, within the space of a month, I got unplayable copies of Bjork's VESPERTINE (same problem as TUNNEL OF LOVE, but 10 songs in instead of right away) and the Chemical Brothers' COME WITH US (sealed tight in the ltd. edition cardboard packaging but scratched all the hell; I guess I could have done the toothpaste thing but it was just easier to stop by Tower and make 'em give me another one). So that's three out of an undisclosed-but-still-unconscionable number of CDs. Not bad. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:26:58 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs At 08:57 AM 6/14/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: >i wuz gonna keep this offlist, but the hell... > >i enthusiastically recommend cool edit 2000 (www.syntrillium.com, i only >wish they gave me kickbacks.) It was a recommendation from doug in 1999 that led me to CoolEdit in the first place, and if Syntrillium offers kickbacks, I'll fill out the referral form for doug. I'll offer an enthusiastic third to everything doug and Stewart have said about CoolEdit. I use it for normalization and edits for all my mix CDs. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:28:19 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground First CD purchased- I didn't acquire my first CD player till the spring of 1993 (for a variety of tedious personal and monetary reasons), and then tried to but back into what little of late 80s music culture I'd particularly enjoyed. So as much as I'd like to say my first purchase was LOLITA NATION (or even DOOLITTLE or LIFE'S RICH PAGEANT), it was Foster and Lloyd's FASTER AND LLOUDER, followed in pretty rapid succession by Matthew Sweet's GIRLFRIEND, Roseanne Cash's KING'S RECORD SHOP, and Dwight Yoakam's THIS TIME. Duplicate CD's purchased- an almost innumerable lot of 'em. Like Larry Tucker, I can't resist (or couldn't, prior to getting a CD burner a couple of years ago) a bargain on a "worthwhile" CD, which I'll then press on some unsuspecting friend at some point. Doesn't everybody think it would be a better world if everyone shared your music sensibilities? I should probably mention along this line that I have retrieved more than a half dozen copies of Bill Lloyd's wonderful SET TO POP, The Velvet Crush's essential TEENAGE SYMPHONIES..., and either of the Plimsouls EVERYWHERE AT ONCE or the really really essential PLUS compilation for this purpose. I won't mention the similiar, somewhat less prolific gathering of trashy, found really easily used and remaindered Best Kissers BEEN THERE, Possum Dixon's STAR MAPS, and WAX's 13 UNLUCKY NUMBERS. oops, b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:35:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Bill Silvers wrote: > Like Larry Tucker, I can't resist (or couldn't, prior to getting a CD > burner a couple of years ago) a bargain on a "worthwhile" CD, which I'll > then press on some unsuspecting friend at some point. Doesn't everybody > think it would be a better world if everyone shared your music > sensibilities? I do that too, but I've started worrying that I'm just taking good CDs out of circulation and giving them to people who may or may not care about them. I mean, I try to pick recipients well, but I can't say I've had anywhere near the hit rate I would have hoped. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:52:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > Anyone seeking an alphabetizing tiebreaker between the hypothetical Our > Scott solo album and the solo work of ex-V-Roy Scott Miller might want to > bear in mind that the latter Scott's first name is "Allen." He went by > "Scott" all his life except when he went to college at William & Mary, > where he used "Allen" -- his way of distancing his true self from the > high-falootin' W&M crowd (are there other public colleges as elitist and > snotty as W&M and UVA?). Hey, at least two really cool people went to W&M -- my dad, and Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" fame! Since Joe & I have never merged our CD collections (there's another question for you -- have you merged your CD collection with that of your spouse or significant other?) we have never had to compromise on our filing idiosyncracies. For instance, Joe files "Ben Folds Five" under B, whereas I file them under F. I felt somewhat vindicated when Ben Folds released a solo album, since it must, obviously, be filed under F and it makes more sense to have the entire Ben Folds oeuvre together. Joe also files his compilations by first letter of the title (for instance, JUST SAY YES would go under J) whereas I file them alphabetically at the very end of my CD collection. - --Sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:51:16 -0300 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Organinzing that first CD > remastering or rerelease with bonus tracks? Thankfully, my Elvis Costello collection was very limited before the current Rhino remaster series, as so far I've only had to re-buy BRUTAL YOUTH and ALL THIS USELESS BEAUTY. With The Clash I wasn't so lucky, though, as THE CLASH, LONDON CALLING, SANDANISTA and COMBAT ROCK (for some reason I never bothered to get GIVE 'EM ENOUGH ROPE when I first got into them) all had to be re-bought. Otherwise, Psychedelic Furs' TALK TALK TALK, Tears For Fears' SONGS FROM THE BIG CHAIR and Simon & Garfunkel's PARSLEY SAGE ROSEMARY & THYME, though the latter came as part of a box set. Luckily, I didn't already own any of the old Blondie or Ramones albums, despite always meaning to, when they were reissued last year but if the Pretenders or Til Tuesday ever decide to remaster their back catalogues, I'll have to buy those. Of course, this is the thing that makes my non-music-geek friends who already think I'm crazy for buying so many CDs think I'm even crazier. Jer np: Christine Fellows, THE LAST ONE STANDING (excellent Canadian singer/songwriter--anyone else know her?) Care2 make the world greener! Will nuclear waste be transported through your neighborhood? Speak up! http://www.Care2.com/go/speakup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:57:56 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground Aaron replied: > > Like Larry Tucker, I can't resist (or couldn't, prior to getting a CD > > burner a couple of years ago) a bargain on a "worthwhile" CD, which I'll > > then press on some unsuspecting friend at some point. Doesn't everybody > > think it would be a better world if everyone shared your music > > sensibilities? > >I do that too, but I've started worrying that I'm just taking good CDs out >of circulation and giving them to people who may or may not care about >them. I mean, I try to pick recipients well, but I can't say I've had >anywhere near the hit rate I would have hoped. Gosh, and I thought *I* was an altruist. I'm more selfish than that, I'm afraid. The pleasure I get from having a like-minded friend say "wow, I had no idea that was so good" far outweighs the disappointment in hearing that somebody was indifferent or worse to a record's charms. I have a mixed record of successes, like you, but nothing ventured...and heck, I'll get no thrill from the enjoyment that the unknown guy/gal who gets the $4.99 special that I pass up. Thinking a little more about the impulse to buy an extra copy of a record, there's just something that offends me somehow about seeing a worthwhile record in a used bin, and I'm still "sick" enough that I'll pick up something that's selling for $5 or less more or less on general principles. Welcome to my Eleventh Dream Day nightmare. b.s., who didn't mean to say that he enjoyed little of late-80s music, only that he was exposed to precious little of it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:26:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 08:57 AM 6/14/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: > >i wuz gonna keep this offlist, but the hell... > > > >i enthusiastically recommend cool edit 2000 (www.syntrillium.com, i only > >wish they gave me kickbacks.) > > It was a recommendation from doug in 1999 that led me to CoolEdit in the > first place, and if Syntrillium offers kickbacks, I'll fill out the > referral form for doug. Based in part on a recomendation from Joe Mallon (on his site), I've been using Gold Wave - about 1/3 the price of Cool Edit. It seems to work fine - I suspect so far that it's my not doing things right that have led to the (really, fairly minor) problems I've experienced so far. For the time being, my computer's too messed up to handle making wave files from LPs or tapes: I thought increasing the RAM would help - but it hasn't. There's lots more wrong with it...I'm probably going to reformat it, but I haven't gotten everything together to do that yet. - -j ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:28:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Beelzebub, Demon Lord of the Pestilential Fly Kingdom" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] burning question On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Larry Tucker wrote: > So Rog are the flames licking at your heels? Oh, they are, they are! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:33:23 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground Miles Goosens on 6/14/2002 2:20:15 PM wrote: > But earlier this year, > within the space of a month, I got unplayable copies of Bjork's VESPERTINE > (same problem as TUNNEL OF LOVE, but 10 songs in instead of right away) I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing wrong with your CD. That's just Bjork. (Someone had to say it.) As I said the last two or three times this discussion came up, the first CD I bought was an import of Julian Cope's WORLD SHUT YOUR MOUTH (album, not the song/EP). And yes, I bought it before I actually had a CD player. I was afraid I'd never see another copy. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:34:45 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing I'm with Bill; the times I've scored a direct hit (U TOTEM for a prog fan, IBC for a new-music friend) definitely make up for the fizzles, and then some. Another arcane filing question: Richard Wahnfried is a solo artist (Klaus Schulze) pretending to be a band named after an individual (a Romantic poet, I believe). To add to the confusion, Arthur Brown sings, just as he does on Klaus Schulze records. R, W, or S? I have it under W, but I think that's a Tull-under-T mistake. If I move it, though, I'll forget I did. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:39:42 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing At 02:34 PM 6/14/02 -0700, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: >I'm with Bill; the times I've scored a direct hit (U TOTEM for a prog fan, IBC >for a new-music friend) definitely make up for the fizzles, and then some. > >Another arcane filing question: Richard Wahnfried is a solo artist (Klaus >Schulze) pretending to be a band named after an individual (a Romantic poet, I >believe). To add to the confusion, Arthur Brown sings, just as he does on >Klaus >Schulze records. > >R, W, or S? I have it under W, but I think that's a Tull-under-T mistake. If I >move it, though, I'll forget I did. In the end, what's most important is that you have it where you know you can find it. Since the only person who has to worry about information retrieval is you (and possibly spouse/partner/whatever), I wouldn't be too concerned. :) Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Judges_, chapter 16, verse 9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:48:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "D. McCarthy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the philosophy of punctuation > It's simple. Here's how it works: > > McCARTNEY, RAM, TUG OF WAR and other albums credited > to "Paul McCartney" or > "Paul and Linda McCartney" are filed under M. > > BAND ON THE RUN, RED ROSE SPEEDWAY, and other albums > credited to "Paul > McCartney & Wings" are filed under P. The CD store at which I work has some filing tactics which appear strange at first glance, but among them is a system that files things in an attemptedly intuitive fashion. Thus, these two examples would both fall under the McCartney section for us. Wings would have its own separate section. The concern is to minimize the number of places a customer has to look. This leads to other filings - a few examples that I can recall are filing Ben Folds Five under "Folds, Ben Five" and Dave Matthews Band under "Matthews, Dave Band". This occasionally causes confusion but it seems the easiest method of standardization. (the other) Dan Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:46:23 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs I meant to add that while doug is absolutely right that there's no way to balance levels from track to track except by ear, there are a couple of tools that can help. One is multi-band compression, which divides the audio into several frequency bands, compresses each individually, and then mixes them back together. This acts as a sort of automatic EQ, moving each track closer to the same sonic signature, which in turn makes it easier to get a satisfactory level match. Use too much, though, and everything starts to sound like Live 105. Another is a level maximizer. This is the software that makes contemporary CDs so loud (although multi-band compression contributes as well). You can use it to turn tracks from older CDs up to match new ones, instead of turning new ones down to match old ones. I don't know if CoolEdit or other entry-level ware can do either of these things, though. And of course one can question the practice of altering a track's sonics to make it fit better on a mix tape, and whether the results are worth the time and trouble. But you can call yourself a mastering engineer! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:50:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Bill Silvers wrote: > Gosh, and I thought *I* was an altruist. What a flattering response! I don't know, it just seems like the right thing to do. Of course, it's not necessarily altruistic -- in general I want to increase the overall popularity of the music I like, and the random unknown-to-me person who'll pull that record out of the bargain bin, if I don't do it myself, is presumably someone who's heard of the band and has a reason to think she'll like them. Fans are coined from people like that far more reliably than they are from friends of mine (however carefully selected), in my experience. And when I'm going through the bargain bin myself, I can't stand thinking that all the good stuff has left in the hands of someone almost exactly like me who *doesn't even need it* but has instead made off with it to give out to friends. That selfish creep! So I control myself some of the time. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 14:50:02 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing >In the end, what's most important is that you have it where you know you >can find it. Since the only person who has to worry about information >retrieval is you (and possibly spouse/partner/whatever), I wouldn't be too >concerned. :) Yes, but I don't want my biographers to think I'm the sort of person who files Jethro Tull under "T", do I? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:07:31 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground At 03:33 PM 6/14/2002 -0600, Roger Winston wrote: >Miles Goosens on 6/14/2002 2:20:15 PM wrote: > >> But earlier this year, >> within the space of a month, I got unplayable copies of Bjork's VESPERTINE >> (same problem as TUNNEL OF LOVE, but 10 songs in instead of right away) > >I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing wrong with your CD. That's >just Bjork. > >(Someone had to say it.) Cue rimshot. Sharples? Unca Gil? >As I said the last two or three times this discussion came up, the first CD >I bought was an import of Julian Cope's WORLD SHUT YOUR MOUTH (album, not >the song/EP). Speaking of the EP, have all of its songs turned up on CD? The title track was on ST. JULIAN, of course, but the rest of the EP is great too. "Umpteenth Unnatural Blues," "Transporting," and the white-hot covers of "(I've Got) Levitation" and "Non-Alignment Pact" deserve to be somewhere on CD. Anyone? Jack Lippold? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:05:51 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing > Yes, but I don't want my biographers to think I'm the sort of person who files > Jethro Tull under "T", do I? tim, seriously, now... should you mistakenly file Tull under T, you need not worry. whoever writes _your_ biography will no doubt come up with some very reasonable sounding, very detailed (and sufficiently non-layman) explanation that none of the rest of us will ever understand without spending many hours with a dictionary, a stack of reference books, and a degree. matthew: you, too. back to reality, though. i'm in agreement with the contingent of file-it-where-you-can-find-it. but if you want to make it really simple, move and leave 75% of your cds in another state. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:12:56 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing >whoever writes _your_ biography will no doubt come up with some >very reasonable sounding, very detailed (and sufficiently non-layman) >explanation that none of the rest of us will ever understand without >spending many hours with a dictionary, a stack of reference books, and a >degree. I was kinda hoping to outlive Greil Marcus. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: [loud-fans] two recent finds I've run into two pretty neat bands recently where I didn't expect them -- I guess I haven't fully absorbed the diversity of recent "emo" labels. One is The World/Inferno Friendship Society, helpfully miscategorized as "punk" by eMusic, maybe due to their being on Gern Blandsten. They strike me as being in the tradition of Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 or the Butthole Surfers in that, however varied or unvaried the final product is, they seem to have more invested in their image as eclectics than in any one musical genre, which is nice. They also share Foetus's interest in swankiness as a musical nuance more or less divorced from any social context, though there's no electronics and no pummelling, so Foetus isn't a very good reference point. It appears the band is giving away everything they've done at all in mp3 form at http://www.worldinferno.com/music.html (maybe some of the mp3s are only samples, but the few I checked were all complete). Fun! The other band is Sunday's Best, which I actually downloaded from eMusic and then forgot about, thereby hearing with no specific expectations at all. They're a power-pop band, right down to the near-morbid earnestness. I can see how formally one might think of this as emo: there are recognizable "mosh breaks" on some songs, for example. But the songs are clearly built around catchiness and hopeful/wistful vocals with a minimum of guitar distortion. There are several songs available at www.epitonic.com, but some of them are actually pretty 'rock'. Still -- I dunno, all I can say is that when I played all of The Californian (their new album) I thought I was finally hearing an Audities-list fave that I could get behind. If anyone who's more protective about the term 'power-pop' (or 'emo'!) than I am wants to tell me I'm full of poo, I would welcome it. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:22:42 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground; more filing At 02:50 PM 6/14/02 -0700, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > >In the end, what's most important is that you have it where you know you > >can find it. Since the only person who has to worry about information > >retrieval is you (and possibly spouse/partner/whatever), I wouldn't be too > >concerned. :) > >Yes, but I don't want my biographers to think I'm the sort of person who files >Jethro Tull under "T", do I? "His promising career as a composer and performer of electronic music was cut short as soon as it became widely known that he filed his Jethro Tull records under 'T'." - --Susan McClary, "Walking on Walters," in _Near-Misses of the Twenty-First Century_, ed. Lawrence Kramer (Los Angeles : University of California Press, 2030). Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. The Holy Bible (The Old Testament): _The Book of Judges_, chapter 16, verse 9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:28:48 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] burning question Beelzebub, Demon Lord of the Pestilential Fly Kingdom on 6/14/2002 10:28:01 AM wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Larry Tucker wrote: > > > So Rog are the flames licking at your heels? > > Oh, they are, they are! Thanks, Beez - I knew there was something I forgot to answer. It's easy to get confused when you're away from e-mail for less than 24 hours and you find that your friends have written an online punctuation manual and filled up your inbox with chapters from it. Anyway, to answer Larry's original question, no flames here! At least none of the non-Internet kind. I'm far enough from the mayhem to not worry much about it. Even the smoke and haze has lightened lately. But thanks for thinking of me! Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:05:28 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Organinzing that first CD Joe: >New question: how many CDs have you bought more than once, because of >remastering or rerelease with bonus tracks? "I lost it" doesn't count. SQUEEZING OUT SPARKS, PLASTIC ONO BAND, IMAGINE, the first three albums by Cheap Trick and Elvis Costello (but I haven't yet bought the new Costello reissues), the first four by Blue Oyster Cult, LUCINDA WILLIAMS, NILSSON SCHMILSSON, SON OF SCHMILSSON, NILSSON SINGS NEWMAN, AERIAL BALLET, RED ROSE SPEEDWAY, oh my god this is boring. JS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:04:16 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) Two questions: Is the Reivers CD of "Translate Slowly" identical to the Zeitgeist record? Does anyone want the Zeitgeist "Translate Slowly" that I found today? Cut-out corner, otherwise in perfect condition. Strangely, I've heard the whole thing before, but I know that I've never owned it. I can only think that some college radio station must have featured it many years ago. Have to agree with previously expressed admiration. Anyone planning NYC visits next month might want to keep in mind that Yo La Tengo are playing a free show in beautiful Prospect Park in Brooklyn on July 12th (actually you might want to check the date, as I've heard conflicting stories). In my past experiences, concerts in Prospect Park are much, much more sparsely attended than the ones in Central Park (i.e. you can actually see and hear the band). Finally, that Swans "Feel Good Now" reissue which arrived in my mailbox today *was* remastered and it sounds just incredible. They changed the song order without explanation, and there are no liner notes. And it doesn't have all the tracks from the original CD, which didn't have all the tracks from the original vinyl, ensuring that the truly devoted will still have to hunt down the previous releases. Nonetheless, I'm ecstatic to have the new souped up version. I said it before, I'll say it once more...it's a strong contender for best live album ever and anyone who liked "Children of God" really, really needs to hear the superior live version. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:22:07 -0400 From: Dana Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) It's been claimed. The "winner" will be notified when I get back from returning "The Others" to the video store. Sorry, but Shari wants to leave now. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:30:59 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD Sue: >Since Joe & I have never merged our CD collections (there's another >question for you -- have you merged your CD collection with that of your >spouse or significant other?) Ugh. My ex-wife and I did that. When we split up we had absolutely no disagreements about dividing any of the big-ticket items (you take the dining room table, I'll take the couch--fine, done) but the CD distribution was...fraught. "Whaddya mean, *your* copy of BANDWAGONESQUE??? Gimme that....!" JS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:17:59 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Organizing that first CD 1. Albums intentionally purchased more than once on CD. Dude, a lot. Like two just for volleyball. My database claims I have 73 CDs that have been superseded by other issues, and I'm not confident that this is a piece of info I've coded reliably, so it might be more like 100. For starters, I have *three* sets of the early Big Country and Kate Bush albums, and two of the Alarm, Black Sabbath, Marillion, Rush and Simon and Garfunkel. 2. Albums accidentally purchased more than once. Only once in a store, thanks to my (now) carrying my collection database around with me in my Casio. Plus I once bought something I'd already mail-ordered, since it wasn't in the db yet. Now I also carry a list of all pending mail-order items... 3. Merging CD collections with spouse/significant other's. Never, under any condition, past or future. This is *my* project, and I would no more consider consolidating it with anybody else's than you could "consolidate" dental x-rays of two mouths. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:04:25 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: [loud-fans] Aimee and Scott At the end of a piece about the upcoming Aimee Mann album in this month's ICE: "She also wants to pair up with Scott Miller from Game Theory and The Loud Family to put together a joint, mostly acoustic album. 'He's got so many good songs,' she says, 'I want to do an acoustic best-of, to introduce him to a larger audience.'" (Punctuation placement relative to quotation marks as printed.) glenn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Aimee and Scott On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > At the end of a piece about the upcoming Aimee Mann album in this > month's ICE: > > "She also wants to pair up with Scott Miller from Game Theory and The > Loud Family to put together a joint, mostly acoustic album. 'He's got so > many good songs,' she says, 'I want to do an acoustic best-of, to > introduce him to a larger audience.'" This is true. Scott's already been down to SoCal to work on it. Thus my not entirely academic question of "where would a solo Scott Miller album be filed relative to the other Scott Miller's album." Release date? Who knows? Track listing? Apparently mostly stuff from PLANTS, with a sprinkling of songs from the TTOOL, IBC and DFD. - --Sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:56:28 +0000 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) on 6/14/02 11:04 PM, Dana Paoli at dana-boy@juno.com wrote: > > Anyone planning NYC visits next month might want to keep in mind that Yo > La Tengo are playing a free show in beautiful Prospect Park in Brooklyn > on July 12th (actually you might want to check the date, as I've heard > conflicting stories). In my past experiences, concerts in Prospect Park > are much, much more sparsely attended than the ones in Central Park (i.e. > you can actually see and hear the band). Here's our chance to have a NYC picnic! Prospect Park is wonderful. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:23:50 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Possible old ground At Friday 6/14/2002 05:07 PM -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >Speaking of the EP, have all of its songs turned up on CD? The title >track was on ST. JULIAN, of course, but the rest of the EP is great >too. "Umpteenth Unnatural Blues," "Transporting," and the white-hot >covers of "(I've Got) Levitation" and "Non-Alignment Pact" deserve to be >somewhere on CD. THE FOLLOWERS OF SAINT JULIAN, Island, IMCO 251/524 276-2, 1997 Also contains the tunes from the Trampolene and Eve's Volcano EPs. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:26:09 -0400 From: "Paul Seeman" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] zeitgeist (ns) > Is the Reivers CD of "Translate Slowly" identical to the Zeitgeist > record? The Reivers' version was remixed in '88. I somehow parted ways with my copy of the Zeitgeist album years ago, but the Reivers' liner notes and my hazy memory suggest that "Wherehaus Jamb", " Freight Train Rain", "Electra" and "Walking the Cow" might not have been on the first release. P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:41:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] questions re making CD-Rs On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > One is multi-band compression, which divides the audio into several frequency > bands, compresses each individually, and then mixes them back together. This > acts as a sort of automatic EQ, moving each track closer to the same sonic > signature, which in turn makes it easier to get a satisfactory level match. Use > too much, though, and everything starts to sound like Live 105. I don't *think* Gold Wave has this...but I'm not that familiar w/it yet. Joe - do you know? > Another is a level maximizer. This is the software that makes contemporary CDs > so loud (although multi-band compression contributes as well). You can use it to > turn tracks from older CDs up to match new ones, instead of turning new ones > down to match old ones. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think I can do this. I think probably, though, the best advice is simply: listen to the tracks, and if one sounds too loud, turn it down. Using the inbuilt normalization filters might help, I gather - but a highly compressed track (like Cotton Mather's "Church of Wilson" is just going to sound louder - unless you turn it down. So far, though, no one who's reviewed my CD mixes has said anything like, "Jesus - I couldn't hear track 11, so I turned it up - then track 12 blew my eardrums across the street." Could be they were too deafened to post. > things, though. And of course one can question the practice of altering a > track's sonics to make it fit better on a mix tape, and whether the results are > worth the time and trouble. Well, if some "artist's representative" arrives with a baseball bat and a threat at my kneecaps, yeah - but I certainly don't have any problem doing *anything* to a track for a mix tape! I mean, if I did anything *too* weird (like, oh, cutting up a sixty-minute track into four-minute slices and layering them atop one another like a dagwood sandwich), I'd at least let the person know... As to whether it's worth the time and trouble...*sigh*: I'm fairly compulsive about my mixes, so, uh, yeah - it is, at least to me. Thanks for all the advice, everyone who's responded. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #210 *******************************