From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #204 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, June 11 2002 Volume 02 : Number 204 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Daily Comix ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] Daily Comix [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] Daily Comix ["John Swartzentruber" ] [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] and the winners are... ["me" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:52:40 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] Daily Comix Nerdy query: What strips do loud fans follow on a daily basis? I follow Mark Trail and Rex Morgan because they are so un-cool (BTW-a cute goth girl with a drinking problem just started appearing on Rex Morgan [the strip, not the doctor]). http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/rexmorgan.asp?date=20020610 Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:09:15 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Daily Comix That last panel is enough to give Fredric Wertham disturbing dreams. Kudos to Mark Trail, the man with two facial expressions (intent-happy and carefree-happy). I cut out a panel some months ago showing Mark petting his elephantine St. Bernard while the cat, its huge head fused necklessly onto a smaller feline torso, looks balefully on. Mark is carefree-happy and he's saying "Afterward their bodies littered the streets..." Honestly, I really like Mark Trail and the fact that it occasionally includes panels like this is just icing on the cake. The Phantom is a fantastic source for incongruous panels, but I don't really enjoy the strip. On 6/10/02, O Geier wrote: >Nerdy query: What strips do loud fans follow on a daily basis? I follow >Mark Trail and Rex Morgan because they are so un-cool (BTW-a cute goth >girl with a drinking problem just started appearing on Rex Morgan [the >strip, not the doctor]). > >http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/rexmorgan.asp?date=20020610 > >Support anti-Spam legislation. >Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:17:03 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Daily Comix On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:52:40 +0000, O Geier wrote: >Nerdy query: What strips do loud fans follow on a daily basis? The Houston Chronicle has a nice feature that lets you create your own comics page. I'm sure you need to register, but it doesn't cost anything. Here are mine: http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/comics/archive/buildcp.hts?v=3.0&page=1&quality=high&cpp=18&c=32&c=51&c=43&c=74&c=27&c=111&c=18&c=38&c=112&c=71&c=78&c=37&c=40&c=33&c=53&c=134 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:18:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Daily Comix On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, John Cooper wrote: > Kudos to Mark Trail, the man with two facial expressions > (intent-happy and carefree-happy). I cut out a panel some months ago > showing Mark petting his elephantine St. Bernard while the cat, its > huge head fused necklessly onto a smaller feline torso, looks please to listen to my excellent friend Scott McKnight's excellent song about Mark Trail which this very morning pre-email i was humming in the shower: http://www.scottmcknight.com/audio.html or just read the lyrics about 1/3 down page http://www.samrecords.com/samrecords/itworksforme.htm i make no pretense to objectivity in this regard. SCOTT MCKNIGHT ROOLZ!!! oh and what the hell.... http://www.scottmcknight.com/brutal/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:40:26 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky This weekend we finally saw VANILLA SKY via the magic of Netflix' DVD service. When VS was in theaters, I avoided it, even though usually the words "Cameron Crowe" mean that my behind is in a seat the first weekend one of his movies is out. I had two reasons for this: 1) I hadn't seen OPEN YOUR EYES, the Spanish original, beforehand, and wanted to see it first so I could contrast/compare. 2) The reviews on VS ranged from mixed to brutally harsh. I remedied #1 a couple of months ago. So with the DVD release, it was time for me to gauge if #2 was on target. Well, it was. But not for the reasons most reviewers gave. The reviewers kept talking about how Crowe was out of his depth, how the movie was confused to the point of being nonsensical, etc. They usually said this after making some obligatory noises of praise in the direction of OPEN YOUR EYES. I now liken this to the reviewers of the film version of FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS who would open their reviews by praising the book, then would immediate proceed to savage the movie. Since the movie almost perfectly emulated the book, I concluded that the reviewers actually hadn't read FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS. I'm now thinking that the VANILLA SKY reviewers hadn't seen OPEN YOUR EYES, or they would have realized that the general plot, sequence of events, and "mind-blowing" revelation are identical. Either they're both confusing or they both make sense. VANILLA SKY's problem isn't that it's confusing. It's that Crowe works overtime to make buddy Tom Cruise's character more sympathetic than his OPEN YOUR EYES counterpart. Consequently, VS becomes far more conventional and (IMO, of course) a much weaker film. I don't think that Crowe should have been duty-bound to remake OYE word for word, scene for scene (though a lot of it is pretty close); it's just that the lengths to which he goes to make David Aames (Cruise) a likable guy seem like obnoxious grafts, Hollywoodizing the whole thing in a particularly egregious way. The only positive change in the US version is that Sofia (Penelope Cruz in both films) is a dancer, not a mime. While the joy this brings me cannot be overstated, VS is by far the lesser film. What follows is just a partial list of how Crowe went out of his way to make Vole Boy more pleasing for your consumption. I'll try to make them as spoiler-free as possible, but since the last few may give away too much, I'll just summarize here and you can STOP READING RIGHT NOW if you haven't seen one or both of these films and want more surprises. Basically, the main character of OPEN YOUR EYES, Cesar, is a shallow playboy who has no interest in anything but bedding women and doing as little as possible in life while he lives off his trust fund and holdings in his inherited empire, and lets his looks and money do all the work for him; VS' David Aames is a smart and capable businessman who just happens to have some timeliness and commitment issues, a likable guy who just needs to do a little growing up, which will probably happen when he meets the right girl. Anyway, here goes: * OYE's Cesar cares little or nothing about his nominal job, and whatever time he spends at "work" is just beating in time until the next party, the next conquest. VS's Cruise might come in late wearing a goofy hat, but he works hard running his magazine empire, he cares about his job, and his fending off of the (alleged) machinations of the "Seven Dwarves" is shown to us as a just and noble cause. * OYE's Cesar never makes much reference to his parents, whereas VS's Cruise has a whole Father Figure dynamic goin' on from the start. Poor Tom, having to live up to these expectations! No wonder he can't settle down with a nice girl... * VS' Cruise is helping out the Best Friend by publishing his stories and forthcoming novel (awwwww!); Cesar's friend is a struggling student who doesn't seem to benefit from his pal's overwhelming good fortune, and in fact some of the first words out of his mouth are about how hungry he is because he can't afford decent food. * In OYE, the Best Friend has been dating Sofia for a couple of weeks, and it's clear that they're a couple, they're together, when Sofia and Cesar meet at the birthday party. In VS, the best friend has only met Sofia earlier that day, making Cruise's bogarting of Sophia a less heinous crime against their friendship. * VS adds a scene where the Best Friend, drunk at the party, is seen in intense despondent conversation with the Stalker Girl while Cruise makes time with Sofia behind closed doors. During the car crash scene, Stalker Girl throws some words of Cruise's back in his face, words that she could have only gotten from the conversation with the Best Friend. So in VS, we have Backstabbing From the Best Friend as a factor in Tom's unfortunate accident. Again, Poor Tom (sob! sniff!). * OYE's Sofia has a cat; VS's Sofia has a dog. Cats are cooler than dogs. Plus Sofia's OYE apartment was much, much cooler. * In VS, Cruise's character has debilitating headaches after the accident, making his "real" choice of what to do with his life less shallow and pathetic and more understandable. OYE's Cesar has only his disfigurement to motivate him, and since his playboy good looks are all the substance he has in the first place... * In OYE, we see Cesar beating the crap out of Sofia, albeit when he's thinking she's Nuria (Stalker Girl in OYE). In VS, we only see Cruise tie up Sofia, even though the police photos show a battered Sofia, so the VS scene where Cruise looks at them doesn't have the cognitive dissonance that the OYE equivalent produces. * In OYE, in one of the most brutal and shocking scenes of the film, during Cesar's exit from the Life Extensions skyscraper, he takes a guard's gun and starts shooting people. Would Tom Cruise shoot people in a crowd, even if he's convinced that they're not real? But of course not! When we reach that point of the film in VS, that's when the elevator descends with the Technical Support guy, so Tom never has to have his shootout on the plaza. * In VS, Cruise's character is given a fear of heights, making his final choice more bold and "inspiring" (facing up to your fears!) on a superficial level than that of OYE's Cesar. * Cruise's decision at the end amounts to a Hollywood "CHOOSE LIFE!" Cesar, um, didn't have the Wham! t-shirt option, let's say. OYE is a superior film in almost every way, and what's more, I saw it at Target yesterday for a mere $9.88. Put your time and money into the good version of this story. Two final VS notes: * Note that the two women (Tilda Swinton and the ever-delish Alicia Witt) who speak to Cruise at the scary Life Extensions corporation are very redheaded, and Witt seems to be in full-on Nicole mode. Divorce subtext, anyone? * With apologies to Sharples, I still don't see what anyone else sees in Cameron Diaz, at least looks-wise. She seems to have a playful, agreeable personality, but when I think of the original gal in the Stalker Girl role, Najwa Nimri, um... well, once again, no comparison as to which version I like best. :-) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky Quoting Miles Goosens : > I now liken this to the reviewers of the film version of FEAR AND > LOATHING > IN LAS VEGAS who would open their reviews by praising the book, then > would > immediate proceed to savage the movie. Since the movie almost perfectly > emulated the book, I concluded that the reviewers actually hadn't read > FEAR > AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS. Amen! It was one of the best book adaptations I've ever seen, no mean feat when you consider that it was thought to be an unfilmable book, and that a lot of the book's sensibilities are by now fairly dated (or at least, one might think that). Gilliam somehow visually translated the feel of the book perfectly AND made its commentary relevant to today. (It didn't hurt that Depp and Del Toro were the casting masterstroke of the year.) I got the sense that most reviewers hadn't read the book in years, or at all, and just assumed that it was now hopelessly outdated - and since the film is unpleasant and incomprehensible if you're not going to bother to try to understand it - the lazy journalist felt safe to dismiss it. I'm wondering if there is anybody who liked the movie without having read the book? I always thought the one knock against the film was that it played mostly to fans of the book, but I can't tell since it's one of my favorite books. > * With apologies to Sharples, I still don't see what anyone else sees in > Cameron Diaz, at least looks-wise. I don't remember ever going on record as a Cam fan; as just someone to look at she seems to have rather 'ordinary' good looks, but it's the personality she brings to her roles that clicks for me. In SOMETHING ABOUT MARY and CHARLIE'S ANGELS I thought she was utterly adorable, and she proved in JOHN MALKOVICH that she's not just coasting on her looks. JS - ------------------------------------------------- BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL WEBMAIL: info.brooklaw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > films) is a dancer, not a mime. While the joy this brings me cannot be > overstated, VS is by far the lesser film. andy's going to impugn my drinking water again, i bet (he'd do better to wonder about the coffee beans?) but i think this is a little like saying it's more heathful to swig drano than straight sulfuric acid. > * With apologies to Sharples, I still don't see what anyone else sees in > Cameron Diaz, at least looks-wise. She seems to have a playful, agreeable what's wrong with your drinking water miles? no, i kid, i kid. but diaz useta have an effect on me unlike most of the actresses you all gush about, mostly 'cause she reminded brutally of an ex-gf. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:40:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky All I wanna know is, is Penelope Cruz topless in VS too? Okay, that's not all I wanna know. To wit: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > This weekend we finally saw VANILLA SKY via the magic of Netflix' DVD > service. When VS was in theaters, I avoided it, even though usually the > words "Cameron Crowe" mean that my behind is in a seat the first weekend > one of his movies is out. I had two reasons for this: > > 1) I hadn't seen OPEN YOUR EYES, the Spanish original, beforehand, and > wanted to see it first so I could contrast/compare. > > 2) The reviews on VS ranged from mixed to brutally harsh. I'd just rented OYE a few weeks back and liked it a lot - and I was thinking of renting VS to A/B the two fairly soon, but when I read the description on the video box (not necessarily accurate - see the box for _With a Friend Like Harry..._, which completely misrepresents the general tone and subject of the film), I was worried that much of what Miles describes was going to be the case. Sad. Now if I can find the original, Norwegian _Insomnia_... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Drive ten thousand miles across America and you will know more about ::the country than all the institutes of sociology and political science ::put together. __Jean Baudrillard__ np: Brendan Benson _Lapalco_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:03:37 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky doug: >On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > >> films) is a dancer, not a mime. While the joy this brings me cannot be >> overstated, VS is by far the lesser film. > >andy's going to impugn my drinking water again, i bet (he'd do better to >wonder about the coffee beans?) but i think this is a little like saying >it's more heathful to swig drano than straight sulfuric acid. ? Both are corrosive to your well-being? At the risk of ruining a perfectly good bon mot, could we have another sentence or two here? >> * With apologies to Sharples, I still don't see what anyone else sees in >> Cameron Diaz, at least looks-wise. She seems to have a playful, agreeable > >what's wrong with your drinking water miles? I hadn't linked non-attraction to Cameron Diaz to thinking that REPO MAN was mediocre (Harry Dean Stanton rules; rest of movie just underwritten mish-mash), but I'll send tap water samples upon request. >no, i kid, i kid. but diaz useta have an effect on me unlike most of the >actresses you all gush about, mostly 'cause she reminded brutally of an >ex-gf. Life experiences have a lot to do with attraction/repulsion to actors, singers, etc. I know very well that part of my problem with ED this season was the awful Warren Cheswick plot by which curly-haired acid-tongued smartass girl "helps" Warren with his attempts to look cook and get cheerleader Jessica Martell, all the while herself (herself = curly-haired acid-tongued smartass girl) pining for Warren, and then those crazy kids get together. CHATSG didn't remind me of an ex, but of a doppelganger from college, a woman who's not all bad but can be extremely irritating, and who's still connected to my life via someone else. Melissa and I would sit there watching ED saying "Warren! Don't fall for that Xxxx Xxxxxxxx-lookin' girl!" But to no avail, of course. Jeffrey: >All I wanna know is, is Penelope Cruz topless in VS too? Si. There's even an important bit of plot business that has to do with her toplessness. However, VS was made during her 2000-early 2001 10-pounds-too-skinny period, plus the bangs-in-face thing does nothing for her. I mean, she's still cute 'n' all, but it's not as leerworthy as her scenes in OYE, Almodovar movies, and BELLE EPOQUE. I also think less of her as an actress after her unconvincing scenes as Tom Cruise's girlfriend... wait, those weren't in a movie... later, Miles later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:15:21 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky I said: >singers, etc. I know very well that part of my problem with ED this season >was the awful Warren Cheswick plot by which curly-haired acid-tongued >smartass girl "helps" Warren with his attempts to look cook ^^^^ You thought it was a typo, but really, it's just the latest catchphrase, an Iron Chef-inspired metaphor for keeping calm under extraordinary pressure, as an Iron Chef might do under the baleful gaze of Chairman Kaga and the Italian judge. Look for Kobe Bryant to say it when he discusses the Lakers' threepeat a couple of nights from now. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > doug: > >> overstated, VS is by far the lesser film. > > > >andy's going to impugn my drinking water again, i bet (he'd do better to > >wonder about the coffee beans?) but i think this is a little like saying > >it's more heathful to swig drano than straight sulfuric acid. > > ? Both are corrosive to your well-being? At the risk of ruining a > perfectly good bon mot, could we have another sentence or two here? sorry. you've damned it with faint criticism -- i didn't (and won't, most likely) see _vanilla sky_, but i didn't think _open your eyes_ was any good. i thought it telegraphed its punchline pretty heavy-handedly, i didn't think the conceit was original (or at this point especially interesting) and i didn't think the performances, cinematography, or other aspects of the script made up for its structural shortcomings. > I hadn't linked non-attraction to Cameron Diaz to thinking that REPO MAN > was mediocre (Harry Dean Stanton rules; rest of movie just underwritten > mish-mash), but I'll send tap water samples upon request. i'm fresh out of analysis gear anyhoo. > who's still connected to my life via someone else. Melissa and I would sit > there watching ED saying "Warren! Don't fall for that Xxxx Xxxxxxxx-lookin' > girl!" But to no avail, of course. heh. i know of at least one person who stopped watching the show just because of that annoying sub-plot. and i might yet. i do like the dialog though, even if it's not quite as sharp as gilmore girls. > later, > > Miles but not much later, it seems. > > later, > > Miles see? - -- d. p.s. you should have seen what my macros were up to this a.m.. not pretty. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:06:06 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky At 04:33 PM 6/10/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: >sorry. you've damned it with faint criticism -- i didn't (and won't, most >likely) see _vanilla sky_, but i didn't think _open your eyes_ was any >good. i thought it telegraphed its punchline pretty heavy-handedly, i >didn't think the conceit was original (or at this point especially >interesting) and i didn't think the performances, cinematography, or >other aspects of the script made up for its structural shortcomings. Aha. I see. I don't agree on the telegraphing -- up until the shootout outside the LE building, I wasn't 100% sure -- and I think it is a very thought-provoking movie. But I can see where there's a good argument to be had on the other side. What you say about OPEN YOUR EYES is what I would say about THE TRUMAN SHOW. While I saw and also liked THE OTHERS, I am becoming concerned that Amenabar is a one-trick pony, the Spanish M. Knight Shyamalan, whose films all depend on The Big Plot Twist. Has anyone seen Amenabar's three or four other Spanish films? >heh. i know of at least one person who stopped watching the show just >because of that annoying sub-plot. and i might yet. i do like the dialog >though, even if it's not quite as sharp as gilmore girls. While I'm not opening the GG can of worms again (Geesenses still don't like GG, no), I'm still convinced that only 50% of ED's problems this season had to do with writing. The other 50% had to do with changing the theme song and that really cloying incidental and "emphasis" music. I still liked it enough to keep watching it. >> later, >> >> Miles > >but not much later, it seems. > >> >> later, >> >> Miles > > >see? Like those "backwards" and "odd" noises in VANILLA SKY when Cruise wakes up in the street, I was telegraphing the Lucid Dream splice. I just hope I'm not married to Melissa Gilbert now. >p.s. you should have seen what my macros were up to this a.m.. not >pretty. Def? Naughty macros. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 04:33 PM 6/10/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: > > While I saw and also liked THE OTHERS, I am becoming concerned that > Amenabar is a one-trick pony, the Spanish M. Knight Shyamalan, whose films > all depend on The Big Plot Twist. Has anyone seen Amenabar's three or four > other Spanish films? i didn't even realize it was supposed to be a Big Plot Twist in _The Others_ until the pacing got so weird for the "All is Finally Revealed" bit and i was having an "i wasn't supposed to have known this?" moment? ...but i didn't think _the others_ was nearly as reliant on Big Plot Twist as M. Knight (i didn't see _unbreakable_, though, just the other one). The fact that i knew what was going on before the characters did detracted not at all from _The Others_ which i still thought was beautifully atmopsheric, and very well performed. i think it's a shame it was marketed (and edited) as a "gimmick" movie, because i thought it was better than that. like _angel heart_ ... you can watch that knowing it's twist and still enjoy it. > and that really cloying incidental and "emphasis" music. I still liked it > enough to keep watching it. hmm. i never heard the first theme song, i guess (you convinced me to give it a go this season). i liked it enough to keep watching it too, but sometimes only barely. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:51:57 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] ED (no Edd, no Eddy) At 05:18 PM 6/10/2002 -0400, dmw wrote: >> and that really cloying incidental and "emphasis" music. I still liked it >> enough to keep watching it. > >hmm. i never heard the first theme song, i guess Actually, you've probably heard it -- it was "Next Year" by the Foo Fighters, which seemed to strike just the right balance between hope, wistfulness, and regret. This year's model was a Clem Snide song specifically composed for ED, but I find it cloying and irritating. Apparently the change was forced over a rights issue (thanks, Viacom -- see http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,186889~3~6~edgetsnewthemesong,00.html for the story), but that doesn't mean that they made the right choice on a replacement song. (you convinced me to give >it a go this season). I've actually influenced someone else? Egad! If there are other such occurrences in nature, I'd like to hear about them. For instance, Self seems to have struck out on another comp CD (though I know Brian Block digs 'em too)... >i liked it enough to keep watching it too, but >sometimes only barely. Unfortunately, same here for Season Two, and when DAWSON'S CREEK had some episodes with perennial Geesens lust object Sherilyn Fenn, I watched Fox (THAT '80s SHOW I could live without -- and so will everyone else this fall -- but GROUNDED FOR LIFE is the most underrated show on TV, and we like THE BERNIE MAC SHOW too) and junked ED so I could tape Sherilyn. We'll see how the first few ED episodes of next year shape up. While we're talking ED: When we had the ED discussion last summer, I had meant to counter someone's criticism of the Carol Vessey character. I'll agree that she's directionless, but I think she's a very well-written character. I know people just like her -- coasted through school on her looks and inner-circle status, got a degree, started a job, dated an a**hole, let him do the thinking, coasted along for a few more years, finally broke up with a**hole and didn't know what to with herself, etc. Sure, I'm with Stewart and anyone else who thinks that Molly is prettier and a better match for Ed (the show's writers seemed to be working a bit toward that at the end of Season One, especially after the entirely agreeable Rena Sofer interlude), but Carol's character seems pretty well-drawn to me, even if her character doesn't have much, um, character. The most inspired plot of this season was when they had Carol take up with Principal Martino, who has all the a**hole characteristics that Carol seems drawn to in a man. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:04:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] movies: Lookin' at the (Big) Vanilla Sky On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > Like those "backwards" and "odd" noises in VANILLA SKY when Cruise wakes up > in the street, I was telegraphing the Lucid Dream splice. I just hope I'm > not married to Melissa Gilbert now. Waitaminnit...Melissa Goosens...Melissa *Gilbert*...Bruce Gilbert - plus Miles has the same initials as she does. Has anyone ever seen Miles in person when they were absolutely, positively sure they weren't dreaming? I would have said I have - but you know those Ingraham Dwyerses and their wacky vegetarian fare, who knows *what* sort of nutty hallucinogens might have crept in? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::can you write underwater on liquid paper?:: __Zippy__ ps: does this Amenabar dude have films that *don't* have Tom Cruise sig.others involved? Is he working for Cruise's publicist? Shall I introduce the phrase "Dick protagonist" to this list? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:24:48 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] ED (no Edd, no Eddy) Miles Goosens on 6/10/2002 3:51:57 PM wrote: > Unfortunately, same here for Season Two, and when DAWSON'S CREEK > had some episodes with perennial Geesens lust object Sherilyn Fenn, I > watched Fox (THAT '80s SHOW I could live without -- and so will everyone > else this fall -- but GROUNDED FOR LIFE is the most underrated show on TV, > and we like THE BERNIE MAC SHOW too) and junked ED so I could tape > Sherilyn. We'll see how the first few ED episodes of next year shape up. For all you Sherilyn Fenn junkies like Miles, I wish to point out that she has a recurring role on the new Birds of Prey show on the WB this fall. She is playing Dr. Harleen Quinzel (aka Harley Quinn, the Joker's squeeze/henchwoman from the Batman animated series), who looks to be the "big bad" of the first season. Can't wait to see if she ever dons that jester uniform and says "Puddin'". > While we're talking ED: When we had the ED discussion last summer, I had > meant to counter someone's criticism of the Carol Vessey character. The thing that gets me about the Carol character is that she seems to be there only to be a constant romantic foil for Ed. Yet they can never actually resolve the tension and let the two of them get together, becauser then the show would Jump the Shark. As long as she's on the show, Ed is going to be pining for her. Latre. --Rog BTW, even though "All of Colorado is burning" (according to our Gov, Bill Owens, always angling for more FEMA money), I still had to go to work today. It is plenty weird how there is nary a cloud in the sky, yet there is a visible haze and the color of the sunlight is a weird dingy yellow/brown. My sister and her family were in Glenwood Springs over the weekend on vacation, but they decided to head back home to Greeley on Saturday night when they could see the flames at the top of the mountain from their hotel. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:31:19 -0700 From: "me" Subject: [loud-fans] and the winners are... for the lowest total number of travel miles to all other loud fans combined: Columbus, Ohio - 66,432 miles. congrats to the Ingraham Dwyers! runner up: Dave Walker in Detroit, MI - 67,652 miles at the other end of the spectrum, with the highest total number of travel miles to all other loud fans combined: Carolyn Dorsey in Rutherford, NJ - 132,896 miles geographic center: Shibley's Point, Adair County, MO closest big-enough-to-be-on-a-map town: Kirksville, MO closest metropolitan area: Des Moines, IA runner up met. area: Kansas City closest loud fans - Wes Vokes and Jeffrey Norman in the Milwaukee, WI area i excluded hawaii and london from the travel miles calculations, but they were part of the geographic center calculations. cities are approxiamte, determined by mapping the coordinates through mapquest.com. distances are mapquest driving distances, measured from city center to city center. i have now fulfilled my math requirement for the next 10 years. commencing vague, listless drooling... brianna - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #204 *******************************