From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest)
To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org
Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #195
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loud-fans-digest         Monday, June 3 2002         Volume 02 : Number 195



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [loud-fans] Jeffrey's swap tape (ns)  [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jeno]
  Re: [loud-fans] Jeffrey's swap tape (ns)  [Dave Walker <marmoset@freeke.or]
  Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola   ["Andrew Hamlin" <zoom@speakeasy.org>]
  [loud-fans] Picnic                [Carolyn Dorsey <dorseycc@earthlink.net>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Picnic               ["Andrew Hamlin" <zoom@speakeasy.org>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Picnic                   [Roger Winston <rwinston@tde.com>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola  ["John Sharples" <jsharple@bls.brookla]
  Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola  ["John Sharples" <jsharple@bls.brookla]
  [loud-fans] [on-topic] Joaquin Maguire  [John Cooper <john.cooper@pobox.co]
  [loud-fans] CD & Tape giveaway - final!  ["Joseph M. Mallon" <jmmallon@joe]
  [loud-fans] Re: CD & Tape giveaway - final!  ["Joseph M. Mallon" <jmmallon]
  [loud-fans] rejoice!                     [Roger Winston <rwinston@tde.com>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola                    [Cardinal007@aol.com]
  [loud-fans] Captain Beefheart  [Michael Mitton <mlmitton@phoenix.princeton]
  [loud-fans] things hidden since earlier this week  [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeff]
  [loud-fans] avoid chat!     [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Picnic      [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>]
  Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola  [Stewart Mason <flamingo@TheWorld.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 03:26:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jeffrey's swap tape (ns)

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Dana Paoli wrote:

> This isn't really a review, but I thought that Jeff would probably want
> the contents publicly displayed.  A few brief comments pop up hither and
> thither...

Oh yeah - public display! With no risk of arrest, yet!

> 2.  Peter Thomas Sound Orchestra "Monster"
> 3.  Esquivel "Baia"
> 4.  Aphex Twin "Alberto Balsam"
> 5.  Perrey-Kingsley "Computer in Love"
> 6.  Raymond Scott "Cindy Electronium"

This was a nice little sequence, I thought - the Aphex Twin which, on
paper, wouldn't seem to fit, does really nicely - plus everything
crossfades quite well.

Miles would lose his lunch, however.

> 7.  Julia Wolfe "East Broadway" performed by Margaret Leng Tan
> 8.  Negativeland "Cara Mia"

I tried to match up the little drum machine at the end of the first one
w/the drum machine in the second. My day job will retain precedence over
my putative DJing skills.

> 11.  Tuxedomoon "19th Nervous Breakdown" -- It's kind of fun to try to
> spot the song.

Esp. since he sings it mostly in German. Next time, the same band's
version of "I Heard it Through the Grapevine"...

> 17.  The Gordon Highlanders "Battle on the Tyne"

On another tape, I just downloaded an MP3 of the Animals' "Sky Pilot": if
I'm not mistaken, it's this very pipe tune that you hear near the end of
the big explosion/battle/middle section thingy.

> 12.  Sleepytime Gorilla Museum "Ablutions"

This may have bent Dana's "no prog rock" rule, as it's quite clearly in
the key of Q-flat minor, which you can only play after solving a complex
puzzle on the keyboard involving rare, fossilized, extinct time
signatures. Cool thing: the whole thing in the lyric about counting sheep?
The tempo is exactly 60bpm - one beat per second. (This means your CD
player's time display becomes a hypnotic interactive art display on this
track.)

> 15.  Sons of the Pioneers "Tumbling Tumbleweeds" -- I'd only heard the
> version from the Boettcher album on Poptones which, IMHO, is the best of
> the four releases that came out around the same time.

See what's neat about this is there's this bit in the chorus where, I
swear, they throw in a bar of 5/4...okay, I'll shut up now.

> 18.  Lou Reed [Jeff made a special, compact version of Metal Machine
> Music, using methods best explained by himself] -- This is actually very
> nice, and dare I say, tranquil in the same way that watching patterns in
> tv static is relaxing.  Hey Jeff, what meter is this in anyway?  I can't
> quite get it : )

(turn the "8" sideways): 8/0

I just took all of MMM and chopped it up into four-minute pieces. Then I
layered them all on top of one another. I didn't bother lowering the
volume - it was very cool to see the almost completely solid block in my
.wav editing program that resulted.

It sounds exactly the same as the regular MMM, only shorter.

By the way, I distinctly recall it was *Dana* who asked what time
signature Radiohead's "Pyramid Song" was in when that record came out. So
blame him. Thank you.

> 19.  The Goblins "The Clown is Getting Married"

It sounds like they can't sing at all - and yet on each verse, they're out
of tune in exactly the same way, but it's not the same recording and
there's no ProTools. Obviously, this means they're geniuses.

I have nothing to say about pigeons. But I liked the WFMU comment - esp.
since I've been too lazy actually to listen to it online ever.

I think next time I will make a CD full of music Dana hates - that way, he
can make scathing comments on the list: fun!

Once, I was a four-stone apology - now, I am two separate gorillas.

- --Jeff, booster of the vast talents of Anton Barbeau; not exactly a fan of
former Replacements. (Uh-oh, here comes Bradley to defend Chris Mars...)

J e f f r e y   N o r m a n
The Architectural Dance Society
www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html
::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing....
::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world.
__Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Walker <marmoset@freeke.org>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jeffrey's swap tape (ns)

> 17.  Alec Empire "When  You've Reached your Peak"

A friend I once sent this to in a mix described it as sounding
like a giant, malfunctioning machine, whirling around
itself off-center, occasionally throwing pieces of itself
off which continue spinning and whirling off still smaller,
equally malfunctioning chunks.

I thought that was about right.

   -d.w.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:43:41 -0700
From: "Andrew Hamlin" <zoom@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola

>This is one of those weird things.  On the left-hand, inner gatefold of the
>US MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR vinyl LP, the song is clearly titled I Am The
Walrus
>("No you're not!" said Little Nicola), but it's not titled that way in the
>lyric sheet or on the the label.  I seem to recall the British EP and US
>compact disc have it the same way.  Has anyone ever seen it officially
>titled that way anywhere else (like, on the Parlophone EP label)?


Yes, this is commonly held to be one of those "Paul Is Dead" clues.

And I'm sure I don't need to tell you who the Walrus really was...

(well maybe)

Still wondering if the MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR compact disc gives you the
stereo versions of "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever,"

Andy

Q: Were you working with any role models in mind, particular stories or
writers?

A: People always ask about my influences, and they cite a bunch of people
I've never heard of. My influences were my father, who loved to play with
words, and the Marx Brothers. My father was the kind of person who would
greet you by saying, "I see you're coming early lately. You used to be
behind before but now you're first at last." And the Marx Brothers, well,
enough said.

Q: Earlier today, you mentioned that a few years ago you resisted the
publication of a new edition using different artwork, by a different
illustrator. I'd been discussing the illustrations with some coworkers the
other day, how essential they are to our vision of the story.

A:  The Harry Potter series uses the same style of art from book to book and
edition to edition. But another great contemporary series, Philip Pullman's
His Dark Materials trilogy, has been released with very different styles of
covers  the trade paper editions are different than the mass markets, and
the design of the third hardcover of the trilogy isn't quite like either of
the first two at all. It's oddly off-putting, and somehow it detracts from
the experience of envisioning these other worlds.

- --Norton Juster, author of THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH, from an interview by Dave
Welch at http://www.powells.com/authors/juster.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:02:02 -0700
From: Carolyn Dorsey <dorseycc@earthlink.net>
Subject: [loud-fans] Picnic

Let's have a Loud Family picnic!



Carolyn 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:12:29 -0700
From: "Andrew Hamlin" <zoom@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Picnic

>Let's have a Loud Family picnic!


Ah, okay!  I've reserved a tree at irc.eskimo.com #loudfans if someone wants
to bring the peach pie.

Mind the ants,

Andy

"Wrinkles should merely indicate where smiles have been."

- --Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 12:16:36 -0600
From: Roger Winston <rwinston@tde.com>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Picnic

At Sunday 6/2/2002 02:02 PM -0700, Carolyn Dorsey wrote:
>Let's have a Loud Family picnic!

I keep saying we need to do that for the 10th anniversary of the release of 
P&B&R&T, but since that's in January, it would have to be in some 
always-warm part of the country.

Latre.   --Rog

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:01:19 -0400
From: "John Sharples" <jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola

Andy:

>Still wondering if the MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR compact disc gives you the
>stereo versions of "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever,"


Oooh, NOW you've done it!

Back in the 70s my friend had a German issue of the MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR
album on Odeon/Apple.  We couldn't understand why several tracks, especially
Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever, sounded different and so much
better than the US Capitol LP.

Now, in the post-Lewisohn/Brennan era, I finally know.  These tracks were
remixed in stereo by George Martin at AIR studios in 1971.  These mixes are
used on the compact disc.

We know that MMT's original release format was a double EP, in England,
comprising the songs from the film.  Capitol, of course, added the single
tracks Hello Goodbye, SF4E, Penny Lane, All You Need is Love, and Baby
You're a Rich Man to stretch MMT to album length.  The only problem was that
the US by now favored stereo, but since mono was then the standard format in
the UK for singles, and all these extra tracks were only intended as
singles, stereo mixes didn't exist for them!  Except for SF4E and Hello
Goodbye.  They WERE mixed in stereo at the time - I'm guessing because they
were being considered for inclusion as album tracks on SGT PEPPER and MMT,
respectively.  And these stereo mixes WERE used on the original MMT album.
But Capitol "electronically reprocessed for stereo" the mono mixes for the
1967 MMT LP release.  And those crap mixes were used for the 1967-1970 "blue
album," too, and that's what you were stuck with, unless you had the mono
MMT album or the German issue, until the CD's came out.

So why the 1971 stereo mixes?  I think what happened was when EMI decided to
follow Capitol and release MMT as an LP in the early 70s, and it was
discovered there were only mono mixes (except for the two I mentioned, and
All You Need Is Love which was finally mixed for stereo in 1968 for the
YELLOW SUB soundtrack album), they commissioned George Martin to make stereo
mixes.  Why he remixed SF4E when a stero mix already existed, I don't know.
I do know that the fade-out is longer on the remix, and you can hear John
repeat his "I buried Paul/I'm very bored/cranberry sauce" utterance.

This raises the age-old question: are these 1971 mixes illegitimate, since
they were post-break-up and (presumably) done without the Beatles
supervision?  I know my buddy Brennan thinks so, but I disagree.  I think
these mixes (and the recent ANTHOLOGY and YELLOW SUB SONGTRACK remixes) are
every bit as legit as any mono mix done at Abbey Road with members of the
group lurking over Martin's shoulders.  And here's why:

Once you look at the mixing history of the Beatles tracks, you soon realize
that lots of the mixes you grew up with and considered definitive were
actually done months or years after the original recording session, and
without any group members present.  Take the song Rain, for example.  It was
a B-side and so only originally mixed in mono in 1966.  When it was selected
for inclusion on the 1970 HEY JUDE compilation it was mixed for the first
time in stereo at Abbey Road in December 1969, and that's the mix I've
always known and loved.  So, how are these MMT remixes, or ANTHOLOGY or
YELLOW SUB mixes really different?  As long as they were done by the
engineers at Abbey Road with more or less the original decks, I say they're
legit.  You might argue the ANTHOLOGY and YELLOW SUB are even more legit,
since those were personally approved by the group members, which probably
can't be said for those older remixes.

Again, http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-index.html for all your
variations needs.

JS

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:23:38 -0400
From: "John Sharples" <jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola

P.S.  It seems the only MMT tracks remixed for stereo in 1971 were Penny
Lane, SF4E, and Baby You're a Rich Man.  These are all on the MMT compact
disc.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:33:18 -0700
From: John Cooper <john.cooper@pobox.com>
Subject: [loud-fans] [on-topic] Joaquin Maguire

On the interior credits of Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things, 
Joaquin Maguire is credited for "Fence." Does anybody know the story 
behind this credit?

John

NP: you guess

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joseph M. Mallon" <jmmallon@joescafe.com>
Subject: [loud-fans] CD & Tape giveaway - final!

The final giveaway!  We've been through this a couple times now, and
there's not much left.  The lists of available items:
	http://www.joescafe.com/giveaways.htm

Here's how it works:

Email me off-list a list of what you want and where you live.  Include title
and format (tape or CD) for each item requested. If I have to ask questions
about what you want and someone else asks for the same thing clearly, I'll
give it to him/her.  If two or more people want the same thing, the first
person whose mail I get wins.

When I get your list, I'll confirm it and tell you how much the postage
will be. Send me the postage in stamps, your approved want list (best to
print out a copy of the response from me), and your address, preferably on
an adhesive label.  I'll package your tapes &/or CDs and ship 'em to you.

Offer open only to US citizens and those with US money or stamps.

If you have any questions, please email me.

Enjoy,
J. Mallon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joseph M. Mallon" <jmmallon@joescafe.com>
Subject: [loud-fans] Re: CD & Tape giveaway - final!

To add:

Just because you've gotten stuff in the past couple giveaways doesn't mean
you can't have more!

Joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:59:34 -0600
From: Roger Winston <rwinston@tde.com>
Subject: [loud-fans] rejoice!

Loyal Subjects--

It is a time for much rejoicing.  I, your humble leader, hath returned to 
the hallowed halls of irc (irc.dal.net, channel #loudfans) where I am 
presently holding court.  If ye be worthy, attend me, kneel before my 
throne, and give yourself over to my whims.  Bring too your wives, 
mistresses and daughters, so that I may know the worship of the kingdom entire.

Over and out.  Latre.  --Rog

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:35:20 EDT
From: Cardinal007@aol.com
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola

In a message dated 6/2/02 14:58:17, jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu writes:

>Once you look at the mixing history of the Beatles tracks, you soon realize
>
>that lots of the mixes you grew up with and considered definitive were
>
>actually done months or years after the original recording session, and
>
>without any group members present.  Take the song Rain, for example.  It
>was
>
>a B-side and so only originally mixed in mono in 1966.  When it was selected
>
>for inclusion on the 1970 HEY JUDE compilation it was mixed for the first
>
>time in stereo at Abbey Road in December 1969, and that's the mix I've
>
>always known and loved.  So, how are these MMT remixes, or ANTHOLOGY or
>
>YELLOW SUB mixes really different?  As long as they were done by the
>
>engineers at Abbey Road with more or less the original decks, I say they're
>
>legit.  You might argue the ANTHOLOGY and YELLOW SUB are even more legit,
>
>since those were personally approved by the group members, which probably
>
>can't be said for those older remixes



I think Mr. Sharples is banking on his score on the "Beatles Alternate Mixes" 
section of the upcoming bar examination to ensure that he can waive into the 
bar in the remaining 50 jurisdictions ....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:55:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Mitton <mlmitton@phoenix.princeton.edu>
Subject: [loud-fans] Captain Beefheart

My "It's time to clean the house" CD today was Trout Mask Replica, which I
have never heard before.  I guess I have one lingering question: WHAT THE
HELL WAS THAT?



- --Michael, who was also listening to some incredible amounts of screaming
and profanity coming from a nearby apartment.  Though I couldn't
understand what was being said outside of the profanity, I realized that
the screaming was a man and also a child, so I started to get worried,
especially when I noticed other people in the courtyard coming out of
their apartments to see what was going on.  After considering a call to
the local police, I decided I'd first go eavesdrop to see if I could
figure out what was happening.  And what was happening? Game 7, Sacramento
v L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:17:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: [loud-fans] things hidden since earlier this week

On the off-chance that anyone cares, I finally got around to listening to
both the _Anthology_ and official, _Help!_ versions of "You've Got to Hide
Your Love Away" earlier this evening.

My final vote is in the Buchanan - damn, I mean 6/8 category. Tim, who
argued for 3/4, was basing this on the _Anthology_ version; my arguments
for 6/8 had to do with the accented backbeat and relatively quick tempo.
Now that I've listened again to the _Anthology_ version, I note that it's
(a) slower than the official version, and (b) lacking the backbeat.

Go ahead, listen to the _Help!_ version, and listen to Ringo whacking the
tambourine on the backbeats from after the first verse onwards. Consider
too that the phrase lengths seem weirdly long if it's 3/4: "Here I stand,
head in hand / Turn my face to the well" is properly half of the verse,
but in 3/4 it's eight bars, not four. Eight bars for four lines seems a
bit weird - and again, my arg re perceived tempo.

Okay, I'm done.

Off to the chats!

- --Jeff

Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature
http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:26:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: [loud-fans] avoid chat!

Especially the crowd of you that just left - you got out just in time. I'm
there now.

- -j

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:48:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <jenor@csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Picnic

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Roger Winston wrote:

> At Sunday 6/2/2002 02:02 PM -0700, Carolyn Dorsey wrote:
> >Let's have a Loud Family picnic!
> 
> I keep saying we need to do that for the 10th anniversary of the release of 
> P&B&R&T, but since that's in January, it would have to be in some 
> always-warm part of the country.

Or we could schedule it for January but then no one could find it until
several months later...

- --Jeff

Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature
http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 00:31:14 -0400
From: Stewart Mason <flamingo@TheWorld.com>
Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Songs about Nicola

At 03:12 PM 5/31/2002 -0700, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote:
>My friend Nicola wants to know if there are any songs that mention her name.
>
>I'm stumped, but I bet y'all aren't.

I'm very surprised that the Bert Jansch tune called "Nicola," which is
moderately famous in Brit folk circles, didn't show up in this discussion.

Stewart

------------------------------

End of loud-fans-digest V2 #195
*******************************