From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #151 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, April 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic (fwd) ["Joseph M. Ma] Re: [loud-fans] einsturzende neubaten [Bill Silvers ] Re: [loud-fans] about YHF [jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu] Re: [loud-fans] Futurama [Miles Goosens ] RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic (fwd) [Tim_Walters@d] Re: [loud-fans] Futurama [Sue Trowbridge ] [loud-fans] gayometer [DOUDIE@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu] [loud-fans] The Symptoms [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] einsturzende neubaten [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer ["me" ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [Matthew Weber ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer ["John Sharples" ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] just a reminder [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] gayometer [Cardinal007@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] United States of America (the band, for once) [Dave Walke] Re: [loud-fans] just a reminder [Matthew Weber ] Re: Re: [loud-fans] Just for kicks, something on-topic [Miles Goosens Subject: RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic (fwd) From Aaron... - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:37:01 -0400 From: Aaron Milenski To: jmmallon@joescafe.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic >Could you provide an example or two of this dislike among songwriters? Nope, sorry...I'm just speaking from memory and conversations I've had with people, generally pop and singer/songwriter types. I can't even remember who wrote that bit about "You Really Got Me." I could quote some critics, like Christgau, whose review of the first Ramones album said something like "and it's just plain listenable, the way Black Sabbath never was." >I agree that Sabbath doesn't really develop hooks into songs, but I would >argue that the purpose of a heavy metal song *is* the riff, and Sabbath >have great riffs. Here we get into a muso-semantic discussion, though. When it comes to that, it's all a matter of taste. I do think "Sweet Leaf" is just about the greatest hook ever. I think that songs with multiple hooks and melodies that counterpoint the hooks or chord progressions are "more well-written" than songs with just one hook, but sometimes repetition is a powerful tool. Why else would Kraftwerk's TRANS EUROPE EXPRESS still be a classic? Aaron n.p., coincidentially, Iron Butterfly: IN-A-GADDA-DA-VIDA. Is now the time to mention that all drum solos are worthless? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:45:53 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] einsturzende neubaten >... people may be put off by my tendency to whine. Ah well, that's a common problem. But why worry when there's a roll of Mentos in your pocket? http://dijon.best.vwh.net/tv/mentos/mentos-faq.html b.s., who enjoyed the Elvis Costello reissues reference on "Gilmore Girls" last night, though I'm sticking with my Ryko versions absent some compelling reasons to spend even more money on what would be my third copy of THIS YEAR'S MODEL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu Subject: Re: [loud-fans] about YHF If you grow restless with the Black Sabbath debate, misuse of the term "irony," or discussion of Miles' foolhardy furniture purchases, go here: http://www.liz-phair.com/gallery_07.htm and be sure to click on the pics with the "45" softball jersey don't say I never gave ya nuthin' JS - ------------------------------------------------- BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL WEBMAIL: info.brooklaw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:59:39 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Futurama At 12:12 PM 4/24/2002 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >on Buffy in there. At any rate, _Futurama_ was conceived as a successor to >_the Simpsons_ - but since that show refuses to die (and I still think >it's got even odds to be as funny as anything else on TV on any given >week, even though overall I'd agree it's not at its peak), they pretty >much didn't know what to do with it. > >Putting it at the absurdly early (and eminently pre-emptable) time of 6pm >didn't help it... Personally, I really wish they'd moved _King of the >Hill_ elsewhere (where, I don't care) and run _Futurama_ and _Simpsons_ >back to back . Or hell: sequence Simpsons/Malcolm/Futurama/X-Files... Jeffrey, you know my programming compels me to restate my general abhorrence of THE SIMPSONS since that season finale where they went to Japan -- it's like the gross-out cruelty of the depicted Japanese game shows was a virus that's infected nearly everything they've done since, and the characters have devolved into easy-laugh caricatures to a distressing degree. That's still what, eight or nine top-flight seasons before going off the rails (may "jump the shark" die its catchphrase death in some near future), so maybe I should grant them the Steve H.-like Westerberg indulgence where "Answering Machine" expunges current and future sins. And while, yeah, THE SIMPSONS can still manage some clever things (usually undermining them immediately with caricature-like behavior and/or pure obnoxiousness), as far as shows that are funnier on a regular basis, here's a whole bunch of 'em: Everybody Loves Raymond (my #2 show right now, behind BUFFY) The Job (might go to my #1 if it can stay on the air) Malcolm in the Middle Futurama The Bernie Mac Show King of the Hill (it's recovered from its Peggy-as-Super-Weirdo phase) Grounded for Life (most underrated TV comedy going) Plus watching THE SIMPSONS has that horrible "look what they've done to my show!" aftertaste, like watching the final seasons of ST. ELSEWHERE or NORTHERN EXPOSURE. Speaking of the latter two programs, if Falsey/Brand ever do another TV show, I might dispense with watching the earlier good seasons of it since it's more than likely that they're going to turn it over to a bunch of no-talent hacks by the fourth or fifth season. >With luck, the un-aired eps will surface on FX (like I'm hoping for >unaired _Lone Gunmen_ eps too - but now I'm *really* off the charts. How about a DVD of that season with the unaired episodes? THE LONE GUNMEN could have been a low-key jewel -- of the ten or so episodes that aired, only a couple dragged even a little. The comedy was solid, the Gunmen effortlessly carried their own show, and newcomers Steven Snedden and the eye-popping Zuleikha Robinson added a lot to the mix. It might have lost steam in a second or third season, but it deserved to get a second or third season far more than most of the TV shows that do. >Just >to reassure y'all, I did think _Harsh Realm_ pretty much blew large, >ill-conceived, Gibson-ripping-off-poorly chunks.) Can't better that. Sentence, that is. The proverbial typing chimpanzees from one of the best LONE GUNMEN eps could have easily bettered HARSH REALM. Hey, Jimmy Bond could have bettered it too! later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:59:20 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic (fwd) >n.p., coincidentially, Iron Butterfly: IN-A-GADDA-DA-VIDA. Is now the time >to mention that all drum solos are worthless? Given the nature of this list, I'd bet you a lot of money that there's at least one person here who loves everything about IAGDV, including the drum solo. But that would be cheating, because that person is me. I meant to comment on the Hives. My brother recently flew in from the UK bearing two bottles of Scotland's finest (including the 16-year-old Oban; eat your heart out, Dana) and a CD-R of two Hives albums (one of which apparently rejoices in the title of ATOMIC BITCHWAX). They are garage-y, as reported, but not, to my ear, formulaicly so; they mix in some 70s punk and some post-punk with their 60s punk, and throw some rhythmic and dynamic change-ups. The A-word* even occasionally comes to mind. Most importantly, they are extremely energetic. Anyone not completely indifferent to the style would do well to check them out. *"Angular", for those who missed the discussion a while back. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Futurama On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > Jeffrey, you know my programming compels me to restate my general > abhorrence of THE SIMPSONS since that season finale where they went to > Japan -- it's like the gross-out cruelty of the depicted Japanese game > shows was a virus that's infected nearly everything they've done since, and > the characters have devolved into easy-laugh caricatures to a distressing > degree. That's still what, eight or nine top-flight seasons before going > off the rails (may "jump the shark" die its catchphrase death in some near > future), Au contraire, mon frere -- I think Season #13 is the best in several years. Granted, humor is a subjective thing, but I got plenty o'laughs from Homer literally jumping a shark in last Sunday's ep. And the shows in which Moe redid his bar into a trendy watering hole, the one where Homer got hooked on medical marijuana, and Grandpa Simpson's illicit driving were all top-notch & hilarious, IMO. My biggest complaint about the past few seasons is that Act 3 is usually weak, as if no one knows how to write an ending, but I'll settle for a good Act 1 & 2 and a so-so Act 3. The show's nadir was Season 7's "Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield." Worst episode everrrrrrrrrrrr! - --Sue, who is proud to say that she's seen every single episode of THE SIMPSONS p.s. Anyone looking for good, fresh televised entertainment should turn on ANDY RICHTER CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:32:49 EDT From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] gayometer Tests like this are very much fun during a boring workday so I thought i'd post it. http://www.channel4.co.uk/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html steve matrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:49:37 -0400 (EDT) From: jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer 13% gay. Quoting DOUDIE@aol.com: > Tests like this are very much fun during a boring workday so I thought > i'd > post it. > > http://www.channel4.co.uk/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html > > steve matrick > - ------------------------------------------------- BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL WEBMAIL: info.brooklaw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:05:28 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] The Symptoms As one of Melissa's human development program professors used to call THE SIMPSONS -- total Freudian slip, he'd make the mistake just about every time. At 05:29 PM 4/24/2002 -0400, Sue Trowbridge wrote: >Au contraire, mon frere -- I think Season #13 is the best in several >years. Granted, humor is a subjective thing, but I got plenty o'laughs >from Homer literally jumping a shark in last Sunday's ep. And the shows in >which Moe redid his bar into a trendy watering hole, the one where Homer >got hooked on medical marijuana, and Grandpa Simpson's illicit driving >were all top-notch & hilarious, IMO. Different strokes, etc. I continue to watch almost out of habit, but often peeking through my fingers. There were things I like about all the episodes you mentioned, but not enough for me to think it's anywhere close to recovering. The only episode from the last 2-3 years I remember as being hilarious all the way through was the one where Bart was put on Ritalin. Maybe being married to a foster care social worker who's put in 10 years in the biz made the subject matter more hilarious to me than to the average bear. Hey, I'm saying "THE SIMPSONS suck" only what, eight or nine years after the trendhoppers? I'm such an amateur geek, sigh... >My biggest complaint about the past few seasons is that Act 3 is usually >weak, as if no one knows how to write an ending, but I'll settle for a >good Act 1 & 2 and a so-so Act 3. The show just sort of, well, ends these days. That's an affliction more common to movie comedies -- good concept, promising first 1/3 to 2/3, then they have to find a way to end it and it all goes to hell. MONKEYBONE, SEVEN GIRLFRIENDS, the BEDAZZLED remake... and it's not just a recent affliction; there are scads of comedies from the '30s on that have the same problem. >The show's nadir was Season 7's "Scenes from the Class Struggle in >Springfield." Worst episode everrrrrrrrrrrr! I just looked at the page for it at http://www.snpp.com/episodeguide.html, and while I know I've seen it, I have no memory of whether I liked it or not. It certainly doesn't come to mind as one of the best or worst, IMO. >p.s. Anyone looking for good, fresh televised entertainment should turn on >ANDY RICHTER CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE. I have yet to see an episode, though I have some taped. The promos for it looked atrociously unfunny, and Andy's appearance as a celeb guest on THE DAILY SHOW was not only as unfunny as those promos but it yielded one of the grossest parenting stories (not to mention the borderline-neglectful parenting aspect of it) I've ever heard, so I haven't been in as pro-Andy of a mood as I'd like to be. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:00:15 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer 56% - and it says i'm a happy and well adjusted hetero babe. go, me. - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer > 13% gay. > > Quoting DOUDIE@aol.com: > > > Tests like this are very much fun during a boring workday so I thought > > i'd > > post it. > > > > http://www.channel4.co.uk/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html > > > > steve matrick > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL WEBMAIL: info.brooklaw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:14:00 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer At 03:00 PM 4/24/2002 -0700, me wrote: >56% - and it says i'm a happy and well adjusted hetero babe. 50% here, "happy and well adjusted hetero man." But wouldn't the guys from junior high like to know that I scored 50% gay on a test... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:20:21 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic Aaron Milenski wrote: > > My favorite metal > album is Sir Lord Baltimore's KINGDOM COME, which I recommended to one loud > fan who found it laughable and awful. But you were right that it was interesting and they seemed to be ahead of their time. You also have to remember that I've never had more than a couple of toes in the metal camp. I was never into Sabbath (always hated Ozzie's voice and found them rather plodding and the lyrics pretentious) but I like a lot of bands they inspired. I think much of the credit has to go to Tony Iommi. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:30:33 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Swap Review: Jeff B.'s "Superfan" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Gabriel" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 5:04 PM Subject: [loud-fans] Swap Review: Jeff B.'s "Superfan" > Back in December, Jeff Brenneman mailed me the Swap CD > "SUPERFAN." A short four months later, I'm reviewing > it. > > Daryll-Ann - "Surely Justice" & "Everybody's Cool" > I'm wondering why I haven't heard a lot of these bands > before. Not precious, not pretentious, just excellent > pop. This artist/band/whatever reminds me of Eric > Matthews fronting for The Apples (in Stereo). > Best, > Jon Hey, there's another Daryll-Ann fan out there!! These 2 tracks are from their 3rd album Happy Traum, recently remastered and reissued in the US on excelsior recordings. They themselves, rarely seem to stray much outside their native Holland these days. Can't blame them. When I was fortunate enough to see them about 10 years ago when they were still sigend to Hut they played a storming show in Leeds to about 30 largely disinterested people. If you're on the lookout for their stuff then you see occasional things on eBay. Seabourne West, their debut on Hut turns up most often. It's good, but Weeps, their sophmore effort is my personal fave. That was their first album on excelsior - it had been supposed to be on Hut before they got dropped in fine industry tradition. Check out the excelsior recordings site if you want to import any stuff. I got my copy of their current album Trailer Tales that way, from Jeroen, their drummer who seems to run most of it and is very helpful. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:32:04 +0100 From: "richblath" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer Did I do something wrong? I only managed 20%! Richard - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miles Goosens" To: "quercian rosicrucian psychobabble" Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer > At 03:00 PM 4/24/2002 -0700, me wrote: > >56% - and it says i'm a happy and well adjusted hetero babe. > > 50% here, "happy and well adjusted hetero man." But wouldn't the guys from > junior high like to know that I scored 50% gay on a test... > > later, > > Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:44:19 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] einsturzende neubaten Bill Silvers wrote: > > Um, was it just me, or was there no answer at the end of the quiz? I mean, > that's a decent joke, considering, but just wonderin'. That happened to me in Netscape. I had to use Internet Exploder to get it to work. > b.s. who is pretty sure that there's no word "psychophantic" A misspelling, but an interesting one. BTW: I'm a drill. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:59:24 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer 56% gay here, and a happy and well adjusted hetero babe (hey, I like that "babe" part!) Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:05:52 -0700 From: "me" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer From: > 13% gay. looks like you're the straightest person here. should you maybe be listening to Van Halen, driving an old camaro, and sporting a mullet? - -- "Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object." - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:10:05 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer At 04:05 PM 4/24/02 -0700, me wrote: >looks like you're the straightest person here. > >should you maybe be listening to Van Halen, driving an old camaro, and >sporting a mullet? But those are such obvious indications of homophobic reaction formation... Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley Thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbor's standing corn. _The Holy Bible: The Old Testament_, The Fifth Book of Moses, Called Deuteronomy, chapter 23, verse 25 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:38:00 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer On 4/24/02, Matthew Weber wrote: >At 04:05 PM 4/24/02 -0700, she wrote: > >>looks like you're the straightest person here. >> >>should you maybe be listening to Van Halen, driving an old camaro, and >>sporting a mullet? > >But those are such obvious indications of homophobic reaction formation... So's a 13% score... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:59:46 -0400 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer >From: > >> 13% gay. > >looks like you're the straightest person here. I'm really sorry about this - I thought that was pretty good for me. My last girlfriend used to get on my case about this a lot. Miserably hetero. I dress terribly, own a Shania Twain video collection, and own almost no personal care products. Milk crates under my stereo speakers, Mets screensaver. Her favorite knock was that when she would ask me to hold her purse in public, I would whine about it, tuck it under my arm like a football, and refuse to walk anywhere with it. I thought it would help that I think my best male friend is really hot, but apparently not enough. I'll work on it. I'd sleep with George Clooney!! I've seen Rufus Wainwright six times!! Does that help?? JS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:01:42 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer 33%. Color me shocked! And I don't think I was even trying. But subconsciously, I must've been. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:10:41 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: [loud-fans] just a reminder January 26, 2003 is the 10th anniversary of the release of PLANTS AND BIRDS AND ROCKS AND THINGS. (At least I think that's the right date - someone correct me if I'm wrong.) That's nine months away. We need to start planning for the party now. And it has to be a big party. With alcohol and music and people speaking Esperanto and those snackies made with cream cheese, deli meats & rolled-up tortillas. I love those. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:09:44 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer In a message dated 4/24/02 20:00:20, jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu writes: >Her favorite knock was that when she would ask me to hold her > >purse in public, I would whine about it, tuck it under my arm like a > >football, and refuse to walk anywhere with it. My recollection is that you did the same thing with her a few times, which may have cranked up your score. Sorry; I said "crank." I couldn't finish the gayometer; I had to punch somebody and drink beer. If the list will like me better, I'll bone him up the ass for bein' a fuckin' wiseguy ... sincerely, ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] United States of America (the band, for once) I've heard that Broadcast (a band I enjoy a great deal) cite the United States of America as a major influence. I've never quite gotten around to checking that material out though, and it's unfortunate that even if I do, Joe Byrd probably won't see a penny. :( -d.w. %46 omnisexual ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:29:43 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] just a reminder At 6:10 PM -0600 4/24/02, Roger Winston wrote: >January 26, 2003 is the 10th anniversary of the release of PLANTS >AND BIRDS AND ROCKS AND THINGS. (At least I think that's the right >date - someone correct me if I'm wrong.) That's nine months away. >We need to start planning for the party now. And it has to be a big >party. With alcohol and music and people speaking Esperanto and >those snackies made with cream cheese, deli meats & rolled-up >tortillas. I love those. > >Latre. --Rog Dude, I will be so there. I'll bring the 2-liter bottles of Mountain Dew and all my old Amon D||l records. Matt There is no such thing in America as an independent press, unless it is in the country towns. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write his honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand they would never appear in print. I am paid $150 a week for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things. If I should permit honest opinions to be printed in one issue of my paper, like Othello, before 24 hours, my occupation would be gone. ...You know this and I know it, and what folly is this to be toasting an "independent press". We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping-jacks; they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes. John Swinton, speech to journalists, New York, April 12, 1883 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:20:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just for kicks, something on-topic On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > Miles, > wondering if Wire's READ AND BURN 01 fits into > any genre -- unless there's a genre that's simply > "Loud and Kick-Ass" A damned fine genre. This one benefits immensely from being short (six songs, none longer than 3-4 minutes) and very well sequenced: there's hardly any gap between tracks, and therefore the second one track ends, you don't have time even to catch your breath before the next one suckerpunches you. (So I gather the "play it loud" idea worked, Miles? Me too...) Oh: www.posteverything.com if yr interested. Speaking of Wire, in the wake of my earlier post I spent some time wandering around amazon.com looking at their sales rankings. Loud Family CDs range from #44,000 or so down to 150,000-ish - actually, the best-selling ones are in fairly respectable territory (I'll let you do your own looking around to see how those rankings compare with other list faves). What's interesting - and what lends support to the old "shoulda stayed 'Game Theory'" argument - is to look at Wire's numbers. If you ignore their first three, Phase I records (_Pink Flag_, _Chairs Missing_, and _154_), which made their reputation, all of Wire's titles are either in the same range as Loud Family in terms of rankings, or are considerably lower. And yet, Wire were able to sustain a second career (1985-91ish) and now a third (2000-present), plus a series of solo albums. I rather suspect that a lot of that was possible from trading off the recognition and cachet of the Wire brandname. Even if calling the band "Game Theory" wouldn't have improved sales, it likely would have insured more numerous and better-placed reviews, as well as more college radio airplay... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:32:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] einsturzende neubaten On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, me wrote: > i am the megaphone - heh - fitting. > > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=endeneu > > What Neubauten instrument describes you? The cylinders. Megaphone was only #6 for me. Oh - and what the hell is "psychophantic"? My dictionary doesn't list it - and 3/4 of the hits brought up by google.com clearly mean "sycophantic." I'll pretend it's a real word and means "tending to reveal one's soul"...yeesh. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::part of your circuit of incompetence:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:49:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > http://www.channel4.co.uk/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html 40% Do I lose points for noticing that the Liz Phair photos Sharples directed us to were blown up too large for their resolution? Or do I gain points for paying attention to pixels under the circumstances? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:55:15 -0400 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Re: [loud-fans] Just for kicks, something on-topic I plan to post at greater length about the new Wire release, but I want to address one of Jeffrey's points before I head to bed tonight... On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:20:49 -0500 (CDT) Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Speaking of Wire, in the wake of my earlier post I spent some time > wandering around amazon.com looking at their sales rankings. Loud Family > CDs range from #44,000 or so down to 150,000-ish - actually, the > best-selling ones are in fairly respectable territory (I'll let you do > your own looking around to see how those rankings compare with other list > faves). > What's interesting - and what lends support to the old "shoulda stayed > 'Game Theory'" argument - is to look at Wire's numbers. If you ignore > their first three, Phase I records (_Pink Flag_, _Chairs Missing_, and > _154_), which made their reputation, all of Wire's titles are either in > the same range as Loud Family in terms of rankings, or are considerably > lower. And yet, Wire were able to sustain a second career (1985-91ish) and > now a third (2000-present), plus a series of solo albums. I rather suspect > that a lot of that was possible from trading off the recognition and > cachet of the Wire brandname. Even if calling the band "Game Theory" > wouldn't have improved sales, it likely would have insured more numerous > and better-placed reviews, as well as more college radio airplay... While I'm a staunch advocate of the "should have stayed Game Theory" theory, as far as Amazon sales numbers go, let me posit another theory, one that risks reopening another recent debate: Amazon's Loud Family sales figures being comparable or better than '80s/'90s Wire is probably more reflective of people *having* to buy the Loud Family via the web 'cos they had trouble finding them in stores. You can find THE IDEAL COPY, A BELL IS A CUP, THE FIRST LETTER, or at least some selection of Wire CDs in just about any Tower, Best Buy, Media Play, etc. Even mall chains like Camelot and Sam Goody sometimes have a Wire divider with a couple of CDs in stock. Depending on where you live(d), your only recourse to obtain a Loud Family CD might well be the Internet/mail order route, whereas if you're curious about Wire, you can probably find instant gratification on your next visit to the record store. I'll bet the total sales of each Wire release are much greater than the total Loud Family figures. Incidentally, both Game Theory and Wire Mk. II were on Enigma, but Wire's CDs survived, in large part thanks to the Mute cobranding on the Wire releases -- Mute has a policy of keeping as much of their catalog in print as possible, plus they reissued the Wire Mk. II catalog just a couple of years ago. Plus Wire wasn't managed by Scott Vanderbilt... :-) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:58:30 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer 46% 'Happy well adjusted lesbian babe.' I would say that fits:-). Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:58:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] This is no longer close to the topic On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: > >Which songwriters hate Black Sabbath? Kurt Cobain? Chris Cornell? The > >guys in Metallica? Scott (who saw them in 1975)? > > I'm not sure what to say about the first three, since all of them are > basically heavy metal too. I really can't agree that Cobain's "basically heavy metal." There's a bit of metal in some of the guitar sounds and chording - but the songs aren't very metal at all, otherwise (nor are the sounds). They're loud, distorted rock, to be sure - but not metal. Songwriting-wise, Cobain's influences are far more melodic - and with the exception of the intentional noisefests, so are his songs. > the Cardigans do too! But, for the most part, people whose music is in > genres other than metal tend to use Sabbath as a joke: the example of why > they don't like metal, and Sabbath is also the band most often used to > explain why metal is bad and punk is good. I'm not saying I entirely agree, > and I think a lot of the anti-Sabbath critics are snobs, but I do find their > music rather dull, especially over the course of a whole album. It's a bit odd for me to be defending Black Sabbath - although the first handful of albums certainly have moments I still like - but I'm not sure I follow your comparison (implied) of punk and metal. If Sabbath is the band used to show that metal is bad, what's the common element that leads to the "punk" comparison? That is, you imply that Sabbath/metal and punk aren't apples and oranges: they're similar enough fruits that somehow comparing them makes sense. But I don't see that, really: I suppose I can imagine early punk bands covering "Paranoid" (and for that matter, "Communication Breakdown" - but I've never felt Zeppelin's "metal" at all...), but...I'm confused. Tired, too - this probably isn't making sense. Although I suspect The Book of Songwriterly Advice does advise against rhyming "masses" with..."masses." - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::crumple zones:::::harmful or fatal if swallowed:::::small-craft warning:: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:36:56 EDT From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] gayometer In a message dated 4/24/02 8:10:39 PM, Cardinal007@aol.com writes: << If the list will like me better, I'll bone him up the ass for bein' a fuckin' wiseguy ... >> All i can say is yuck. s ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:31:42 -0700 From: "West Moran" Subject: [loud-fans] Gay-O.L., and Scott(?) The Gayometer doesn't even work on my computer, which I suppose means A) I'm so straight it's silly, or B) my own computer doesn't even want me to know how gay I am. In other news, I noticed that AOL Time Warner posted an astounding quarterly loss of $54.3 billion smackers. A corporate spokesman blamed Wilco. Finally, this from the latest issue of Ice: "The Loud Family grew out of the dizzyingly complex combo Game Theory and has been dormant for the last couple years. But fans will be able to get a fix of Scott Miller's squirrelly musings on June 25, when 125 Records releases 'From Ritual To Romance', a live album culled from The Family's 1996 and 1998 stateside tours." Well, it's been printed on glossy paper, so it must be true. Always believe what you read on glossy paper. Mmmm... so glossy... so shiny... you're my only friend.... West? ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #151 *******************************