From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #139 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, April 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 139 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] another query for the Oracle [me@justanotherfuckin.com] [loud-fans] memento (spoilers) ["Aaron Milenski" ] [loud-fans] The Divine Comedy of New Order [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] new address ["jer fairall" ] [loud-fans] oh great collection of knowledgable individuals ["me" ] RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] [loud-fans] Clientele [DOUDIE@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] memento (spoilers) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] affirming the consequent [Steve Holtebeck > I'm a Uniball man, myself. > > Wow, that didn't sound good. > > I'm a Uniball PEN man, myself. > > Jon > > --- Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > wrote: > > Since I got my linguistic question answered so > > quickly (thanks Jon!), I'll > > try with this one, much more practical: > > > > Can anyone recommend a decent pen that won't blotch > > all over the place? It > > needs to have a fine point, as I write pretty small. > > I don't want to spend > > two million dollars...but I'm tired of buying el > > cheapo pens that blotch > > ink all over my students' papers, and certainly > > something in the $10-$20 > > range or higher would ultimately be a better > > investment. > > > > (Offlist with this one, probably - thanks.) > > > > --Jeff > > > > J e f f r e y N o r m a n > > The Architectural Dance Society > > www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html > > ::I suspect that the first dictator of this country > > will be called "Coach":: > > __William Gass__ > > > ===== > 777777777777777777777777777777 > JON GABRIEL mesa, arizona usa > inkling communication + design > 777777777777777777777777777777 > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:08:01 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] memento (spoilers) OK, sorry to be so late into this discussion, but it took me until this weekend to finally see it (that's what having a young 'un at home will do.) I'd appreciate it if anyone could answer a few questions for me, or at least give opinions. I'd think that maybe someone who saw the DVD commentary or saw the film twice should have a handle on these issues: . . . . . . . . 1) When Teddy makes that speech about Leonard having possibly confused his memory of his own life with that of the other man with the same condition, is it likely that there's truth to that (i.e. Leonard's wife really being the diabetic), or is it more likely that it was just a way of getting us thinking that we haven't been told the whole truth and Leonard's long-term memory is not as perfect as he thought? (And, by that logic, he actually would have some sort of subliminal memory of events that happened to him after the accident, if he somehow confused them with events in his long term memory.) 2) When Natalie first met Leonard, he was driving her boyfriend's car. Why didn't she make a big deal about this? Anyway, I totally enjoyed this film. It was and wasn't what I was expecting. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:02:22 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] The Divine Comedy of New Order Carolyn then Elizabeth: >>Has anyone heard them enough to recommend? I heard a couple songs and they >>sort of remind me of Radiohead. > >I haven't noticed any Radiohead similarities, but I've been slowly >getting into them lately and I think they're extra-fabulous. I've >only got their latest album, Regeneration, and the greatest hits, >both of which I'd recommend highly. From the evidence at hand and >what I've read, Regeneration is much more straight-ahead than their >earlier work, which tends toward the awfully clever. That doesn't >bother me, but if it does you, the latest effort might be the place >to start. I bought the Divine Comedy's A SECRET HISTORY (a best of) in February 2000, on the strength of Dana Paoli's recommendation and seeing a block of three or four videos of theirs during our flight that month from Chicago to London. I was pretty disappointed by it overall. As Elizabeth says, Neil Hannon's lyrics tend toward the awfully clever, which can go either way with me. But his delivery and the music in general tends toward the over-dramatic, plus the sounds often veer toward things (Bacharach/David, Morricone) that I can't stand for longer than a song or two. They sound nothing like Radiohead to my ears. I still like "The Pop Singer's Fear of the Pollen Count," as a song and as a video. And "Generation Sex" and "National Express" keep my interest too. But for whatever reason, Momus and Pulp fall on the "right" side of the line for me, whereas most of the songs on this Divine Comedy collection irked me. Now stay tuned for a recycled Fegmaniax post that still says pretty much what I want to say about New Order's GET READY. doug, Jeffrey, and a host of others can now press "delete" if they haven't already and move on to the next post... Andrea says: > New Order, Rock The Shack, this does just that. A > friend from another list > sent me a tape of some of the songs on their new > album and this was on it, > this was one of my faves. Love it, will buy it. I don't remember a great deal of list talk about GET READY, but it easily exceeded my own expectations -- which were admittedly low after the last couple of New Order albums. It reminds me of the B-52's COSMIC THING: Both it and GET READY came along long after I'd written off the groups, yet these albums are full of a wisdom and grace I'd never thought either group could manage at this late date. Both albums also feature raucous songs with the word "Shack" in the title, reinforcing the parallel. In fact, my two favorite songs on GET READY are "Slow Jam" and "Rock the Shack," which serve the same purposes as COSMIC THING's "Roam" and "Love Shack." I'm sure many listeners might find them among the most sucky songs, but I think they're essential to the nature of GET READY. Or maybe it's that I'm going on 35, and very open to those sort of "older is different but no less spirited and not even necessarily less" sort of albums. But then again, I'm the kind of guy who thinks that the song that made New Order special wasn't "Blue Monday" or "The Perfect Kiss" -- it was "Every Little Counts." later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:49:43 -0400 From: Richard Gagnon Subject: [loud-fans] Divine Comedy >Carolyn wrote, of the Divine Comedy: >Has anyone heard them enough to recommend? I heard a couple songs and they >sort of remind me of Radiohead. They must have been from Regeneration, then. No dead-seated, consistent Radiohead similarities, but their producer, Nigel Godrich, is on board for that one. The earlier stuff, as it's been said, is much grander, and often quite gorgeous in that vein. There's something like a hundred musicians involved in Fin de Sihcle, the previous Divine Comedy album. As Elizabeth mentioned, I'd go with "A Secret History" and determine what i like from there. Enjoy! Rick - -- "He had built a card-house as high as it would go, and he still had cards in his hand" ******John Le Carri, "Call for the Dead"****** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:52:04 -0400 From: "jer fairall" Subject: [loud-fans] new address Due to an Inbox that has overflowed with offers for free university diplomas and links to nude pics of J. Lo, this is my new address. I will, however, continue to check the old one until everyone is used to this one. Jer np: DAYS FOR DAYS http://www.care2.com - Get your Free e-mail account that helps save Wildlife! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:17:37 -0700 From: "me" Subject: [loud-fans] oh great collection of knowledgable individuals polling the ambient knowledge database that is loud-fans: i need info on kit cars and cobras. i'm looking for information on building kit cars (specifically the cobra 427), which companies are decent, and what i should watch out for. everything i've found is basically a fan club. i need good, solid info. any suggestions? - -- brianna - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:24:47 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Official notice: weird, weird music video to be on the lookout for I posted about the Shimauta song/video at the AnimeOnDVD forum. Apparently it's a cover of a well-regarded 10-year old song by a Japanese band called The Boom, who used to tour Brazil and Argentina. http://www.animeondvd.com/dcforum/DCForumID10/742.html Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:50:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] memento (spoilers) On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: > I'd think that maybe someone who saw the DVD > commentary or saw the film twice should have a handle on these issues: > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > 1) When Teddy makes that speech about Leonard having possibly confused > his memory of his own life with that of the other man with the same > condition, is it likely that there's truth to that (i.e. Leonard's > wife really being the diabetic), or is it more likely that it was just > a way of getting us thinking that we haven't been told the whole truth > and Leonard's long-term memory is not as perfect as he thought? This is almost definitely true. During the black-and-white recap of what happened to Sammy Jenkis, there's a split second where Sammy, sitting in the nursery home, actually turns into Leonard. (I think a nurse walks in front of him, so there's no visible flicker, but the change is there.) What this means about Leonard's condition is debatable. He apparently could learn new things subconsciously after the accident, because the story of how his (Leonard's) wife died became part of his memory about Sammy. On the other hand, he's not *faking* in any meaningful sense. > 2) When Natalie first met Leonard, he was driving her boyfriend's car. > Why didn't she make a big deal about this? (And wearing his clothes!) She actually did. She walks up to the car, greets him as "Jimmy" and then, when it's not Jimmy, makes a quick apology. When Leonard walks into the bar she realizes he's "the memory man" and tests him to see if he really doesn't remember things. Leonard passes, and Natalie that if Leonard was just being used, she can use him herself. Then she messes with him back at her place, and only AFTER that, after he's dutifully beat up Dodd and come back with fear and confusion in his eyes, does she genuinely warm to him (and sleep with him, and get him DMV info). The Natalie storyline seemed totally bizarre the first time I saw the movie; on re-watching, though, I realized that the problem is that it's written a little too cleverly -- from the viewer's perspective it follows a pretty standard betrayal trajectory, when in the "real" timeline, there's no betrayal at all. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:08:39 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. The "obituary" is dated five months in the future. Perhaps it's actually a suicide note? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:10:08 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. >The "obituary" is dated five months in the future. Perhaps it's actually a suicide note? Or, more likely, they're using the European dating system and I'm an idiot. Why is it I never think of these things until five seconds *after* I hit send? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:50:46 EDT From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Clientele Has anyone heard the new Clientele EP? steve matrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:52:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] memento (spoilers) On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: > > > I'd think that maybe someone who saw the DVD > > commentary or saw the film twice should have a handle on these issues: > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > > > 1) When Teddy makes that speech about Leonard having possibly confused > > his memory of his own life with that of the other man with the same > > condition, is it likely that there's truth to that (i.e. Leonard's > > wife really being the diabetic)...? > This is almost definitely true. ... > > What this means about Leonard's condition is debatable. He apparently > could learn new things subconsciously after the accident, because the > story of how his (Leonard's) wife died became part of his memory about > Sammy. On the other hand, he's not *faking* in any meaningful sense. Just as Sammy wasn't faking in any meaningful sense - to draw that net a bit tighter. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I'M ONLY AS LARGE AS AN ANT AND I'M HIDING INSIDE YOUR CAR:: __cryptic placemat phrase, Madison WI, 1986__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:09:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > Why is it I never think of these things until five seconds *after* I hit > send? Okay - what's the French phrase for this phenomenon? I believe it translates something like "staircase wit" (i.e., the sort of thing you think of saying only as you're walking away down the staircase)... - --Jeff, once again asking others to do his thinking for him (bwah-hah-ha-ha!!) J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the popularity of the gruesome FACES OF DEATH video series is ::apparently so great that a children's version is in production, ::to be called FACES OF OWIES. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:17:02 -0700 From: Elizabeth Brion Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. At 4:09 PM -0500 4/15/02, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > >Okay - what's the French phrase for this phenomenon? I believe it >translates something like "staircase wit" (i.e., the sort of thing you >think of saying only as you're walking away down the staircase)... Esprit d'escalier (literally, spirit of the stairs). I don't know any more French, though, so don't get too complacent about those questions. :-) - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:31:11 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. At 04:09 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > > > Why is it I never think of these things until five seconds *after* I hit > > send? > >Okay - what's the French phrase for this phenomenon? I believe it >translates something like "staircase wit" (i.e., the sort of thing you >think of saying only as you're walking away down the staircase)... > >--Jeff, once again asking others to do his thinking for him >(bwah-hah-ha-ha!!) That would be "l'esprit d'escalier". Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley The Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself. _The Holy Bible: The Old Testament_, The Fifth Book of Moses, Called Deuteronomy, chapter 7, verse 6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: [loud-fans] Overheard Sarah Harmer's "Around this Corner" while eating lunch at Quizno's sandwiches. It made me happy, so despite all the people, I decided to sing out loud to the music. So the question is, when is she going to release a new album? I was on her website recently, and it gave no indication of anything forthcoming. Oh, and as for that Japanese / Argentine anime song, I wasn't as entranced with it as Mr. Zwirn was. But at 2 in the morning, in an all-night taco shop, after fours hours in a smoky club, well, not even Piper Perabo at the next table could have entranced me. And, thanks to those who offered help on my microphone / preamp question. I bought the ART Tube MP--Now if I could only find someone who sells a 9V AC power supply... - --Michael, who is pleased as punch to report that the final draft of his very first full-length screenplay is printing off at this very moment. http://www.filmatters.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:18:30 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. At Monday 4/15/2002 02:17 PM -0700, Elizabeth Brion wrote: >I don't know any more French, though, so don't get too complacent about >those questions. :-) I need to know how to say "My hemorrhoids are large and infected. Please put that away. Stay away from the center of town." in Esperanto, and I need to know it by 9pm tonight. Ummm... I mean... actually, a friend needs to know it... not me... Latre. --Rog natp (now about to play): HARDWARE WARS, on DVD at last! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:03:00 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] affirming the consequent Roger Winston wrote: > I need to know how to say "My hemorrhoids are large and infected. Please > put that away. Stay away from the center of town." in Esperanto, and I > need to know it by 9pm tonight. 9pm EDT or 9pm PDT? It's not the same time everywhere on the internet! Speaking of our unofficial language of loud-fans, I saw this reductio ad absurdum of Sen. Hollings' proposed Consumer Broadband And Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA) today, and thought I'd pass it on.. http://www.jerf.org/writings/CBDTPA.html - -scroll down to the "Linguistic Unity Act" first. And since we're all computer users and digital consumers here, the story behind the satire is at http://digitalconsumer.org/ Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:25:31 -0700 From: Elizabeth Brion Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Best. Obituary. Ever. At 6:18 PM -0600 4/15/02, Roger Winston wrote: >I need to know how to say "My hemorrhoids are large and infected. >Please put that away. Stay away from the center of town." in >Esperanto, and I need to know it by 9pm tonight. > > I don't have time to check, but I'm pretty sure you can find that here: http://www.zompist.com/thought.html Don't thank me. No problem at all. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2002 20:22:53 -0700 From: me@justanotherfuckin.com Subject: [loud-fans] music! really! go to http://www.icannwatch.org/essays and click on the file monopoly-song.mp3. heh. pretty funny. brianna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:33:05 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: [loud-fans] Plej Bono. Nekrologo. Ajn. (was Best. Obituary. Ever.) At 06:18 PM 04/15/2002 -0600, Roger Winston wrote: >I need to know how to say "My hemorrhoids are large and infected. Please >put that away. Stay away from the center of town." in Esperanto, and I >need to know it by 9pm tonight. Rog, for crying out loud. Mi havas grandan doloron infekto en las intestos. Mi petas, portu tion zorge. Me ne deziras esti en la meso de la urbo. (Cu mi iras en la gusta direkto?) More or less, anyway. It'll do for 8:30 p.m. PDT. latte, janet ps - why yes, it *is* still next to the keyboard. Did you think I had this stuff memorized? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:56:20 -0400 From: "Francis J H Park" Subject: [loud-fans] NS: pens and computers On pens: I used a Tombo rollerball pen - $15 from Office Depot and has both fine tip and x-fine tip refills. I used it to burn thru 5-ply forms in the field since it was one of the few pens I could use that would do the job and not cause irreversible numbness in the fingers. The Uniball Micro Grip is a workable substitute. When the weather got really cold, there was only one viable choice, which was a Fisher Space Pen. I would get Space Pen refills and put them into Parker Jotters when it would get cold because below about 40 degrees, most other pens were completely unusable. Besides, the Space Pens write at any angle. Their only down side was that they tended to gob a small dab of ink when you started writing again after a break. On computers: there are three computers in the house. One is a K6/2-300 my wife owned before we got married. That replaced a computer that died when the house had been hit by lightning and caught on fire. My two computers are a Dell Inspiron 3000 P233MMX that I retrofitted with a 20GB hard drive and 112MB of RAM, and a generic P3-550 Katmai with 256MB of RAM and a 20GB hard drive. I bought the Dell in late 1997 and it's still going strong (indeed, it handles all of web and email). I bought the Inspiron based solely on its ability to run Wing Commander: Prophecy, reasoning that if the computer could run WCP, then it could do anything I needed for work, which ended up being correct. I bought the Katmai-equipped computer solely to play games with 3D software and to do some work. Since I couldn't play Freespace2 or Star Wars Episode I: Racer without a 3D card, that was de rigueur for whatever I would buy. I also used to to burn MP3s to disk and to do occasional video work, although it really demands a faster processor. I figure most computers have gotten to the point where even bargain-basement does what I really need it to do. If we buy another computer, it'll be for our children...although I suspect it'll entail rotating one of the existing computers to the kids. The only thing that really makes my existing computer bonk is video stuff, which I do infrequently. Francis J. H. Park http://home.sprintmail.com/~durandal - -- "I can run all night. And I can run all day..." - James Webb ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #139 *******************************