From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #74 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, February 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Hot Rox Avec Lying Sweet Talk [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Dirk Hamilton ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Dirk Hamilton [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] random Olympic notes [Michael Bowen ] [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores ["Brendan Curry" ] [loud-fans] Yoko Who?! [Gil Ray ] [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores ["John Sharples" ] RE: [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. [Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hot Rox Avec Lying Sweet Talk On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Michael Mitton wrote: > This reminds me of a seminar I went to by the head of the Nabokov research > center at Cornell. He was building a theory of Nabokov's use of anagrams > in one of his novels. > You can probably see what's coming--I picked out a random page in the > book, and found complete "anagrams" for the name in all but two of the > sentences on the page, and near-angrams in the remaining two sentences. > The Q&A got rather ugly. Was this the guy who went on to do "The Bible Code"? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::No man is an island. ::But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, ::they make a pretty good raft. __Max Cannon__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:38:07 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Dirk Hamilton Is anyone here a fan of this singer/songwriter? He released four albums in the late 70s, took a very long hiatus and returned with a bunch of indie-label releases in the 90s and is still active. I think his 1978 album MEET ME AT THE CRUX is one of the greats of the 70s, and his song "She Don't Squash Bugs" (from his first album) an absolute classic as well. He was called one of the "new Dylans," but stylistically is more like a "new Van Morrison," but with a wonderfully peculiar sense of humor. I've only heard one of his 90s releases, YEP!, which has moments of brilliance but suffers from the CD-era folly of jamming it with so-so material in order to get the running time up to an hour or so. Has anyone heard much of his 90s work? If so, opinions? Aaron _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:59:02 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dirk Hamilton In a message dated 2/20/02 5:38:56 AM, amilenski@hotmail.com writes: << Has anyone heard much of his 90s work? If so, opinions? >> Each has a few strong moments, but can't match the consistent quality of his major-label days. His recent live CD's are the best investment, and are available at DirkHamilton.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:51:52 -0500 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] random Olympic notes At 05:48 PM 2/19/2002 -0500, jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu wrote: >Love that short-track men's speed skating event...all the really good skaters >have this awesome race, and then in the final stretch they all fall down and >the guy in last place wins! I can't believe they didn't do the medals race >over when it was clear that little Korean guy took everybody out... I heard about this, and I think that I'll be trying out for the Olympic team in 2006 (are they going to be held somewhere nicer than SLC? - that would figure in to my decision). After all, the slowest skater won, and I can skate slower than damn near anyone.... MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:52:48 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. I'm paying about three bills right now, and each reply envelope bears in the upper right hand corner 'Post Office will not deliver mail without postage'. What bothers me is it's inaccuracy. The Post Office is a structure, not a service, and does not deliver mail. The US Postal Service delivers mail, and will NOT deliver mail without postage. It would be more accurate to print 'The Postal Service will not deliver mail without postage', or 'The Post Office is a building, and CAN NOT deliver mail'. My granola long distace company, Working Assets prints (in soy ink on recycled paper) simply 'Your stamp here, please', by far my favorite. Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:13:49 +0000 From: "Brendan Curry" Subject: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores Louds, As an NYC newbie, I was hoping some listers could tell me about their favorite stores for music acquisition. I'm guessing this has been covered before, but my searches on Escribe did not yield much. Off-list is fine with me. Brendan _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:22:41 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. Hmm. According to Merriam-Webster's Ninth New Collegiate, the use of "post office" (no caps) to mean the government agency predates its meaning as the local branch of that agency. The use of "post office" to mean the building or structure isn't even listed, nor is "Post Office" (with initial capitals). I thought perhaps my working dictionary was just too small, but the Random House Unabridged (2/e, 1987) agrees, while listing "Post Office Department" as the former name of the United States Postal Service. On 2/20/02, O Geier wrote: >I'm paying about three bills right now, and each reply envelope bears in >the upper right hand corner 'Post Office will not deliver mail without >postage'. What bothers me is it's inaccuracy. The Post Office is a >structure, not a service, and does not deliver mail. The US Postal >Service delivers mail, and will NOT deliver mail without postage. It >would be more accurate to print 'The Postal Service will not deliver mail >without postage', or 'The Post Office is a building, and CAN NOT deliver >mail'. My granola long distace company, Working Assets prints (in soy >ink on recycled paper) simply 'Your stamp here, please', by far my >favorite. > >Support anti-Spam legislation. >Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:05:20 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff >*Yoko's kid has been the only gracious loser I've seen >yet. Sean Lennon put down his guitar and laced up some skates? More stuff they don't tell me, Andy "Oh...that's wrong on just so many levels! (ow...ow...ow...)" - --Eric Stenson with regards to http://www.p80.co.jp/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:42 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Yoko Who?! The Yoko thingy is a joke. The kid's last name is Ohno. Oh No! Gil Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:38:24 -0500 From: Michael Bowen Subject: [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? From Amazon.com's front page, telling me I should pre-order the upcoming Alanis Morissette album: >With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career has garnered, it's >startling to think that on the release of her third studio CD she has yet >to see her 28th birthday. Yeah, compare that to, say, Lennon/McCartney, who were finishing up the White Album (their what - 11th, 12th?) when they were yet to see their respective 28th birthdays. Or Richard Thompson, who was coming out of retirement(!) after founding Fairport Convention, making 5 albums with them, one solo record, and 4 with his then-wife Linda. Hell, even a notoriously slow worker like Kate Bush had put out five albums before she was 28. Isn't Ms. Spears currently working her 3rd album? MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:13:08 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. >I'm paying about three bills right now, and each reply envelope bears >in >the upper right hand corner 'Post Office will not deliver mail >without >postage'. What bothers me is it's inaccuracy. The Post Office is a >structure, not a service, and does not deliver mail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn't we applaud them for bringing metonymy to the masses? I had a chance to listen to the forthcoming Luna album, "Romantica" today while my boss was away. For better or for worse, Dean seems to have settled into a very pleasant rut over the last few releases, and the new one doesn't really hold any major surprises. On the other hand, with the exception of one tune that opens with a particularly exruciating couplet (the word "oodles" makes an appearance), the songs are all high quality. The production is a little lusher than usual, with the exception of one almost Half-Japanese sounding rock song that I like a lot. Anyone looking for an unremarkably good CD in a lazy, Velvet Undergroundy vein might want to think of this in a month. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:35:38 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff Gil: >*Please don't outlaw hockey fights. But the hockey is so much better without it. I say let's put the brawling on ice where it belongs--women's figure skating! MBowen: > The slowest skater won. Not only that, the guy who won was also in last place in the qualifying round just before, and the same thing happened: all the leaders wiped out at the last second and he just skated by as they were all writhing around, with this look on his face: "Who, me? Cool." I love this game, JS nw: USA 5, Germany 0, after two. Oh, yeah. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:18:20 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? Not to mention other musicians who accomplished everything they did accomplish before their 28th birthdays: Kurt Cobain, Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Robert Johnson, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Gram Parsons, and Otis Redding, to name just a few. On 2/20/02, Michael Bowen wrote: >From Amazon.com's front page, telling me I should pre-order the >upcoming Alanis Morissette album: > >>With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career has garnered, >>it's startling to think that on the release of her third studio CD >>she has yet to see her 28th birthday. > >Yeah, compare that to, say, Lennon/McCartney, who were finishing up >the White Album (their what - 11th, 12th?) when they were yet to see >their respective 28th birthdays. Or Richard Thompson, who was coming >out of retirement(!) after founding Fairport Convention, making 5 >albums with them, one solo record, and 4 with his then-wife Linda. >Hell, even a notoriously slow worker like Kate Bush had put out five >albums before she was 28. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:25:12 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores BCurry: >As an NYC newbie, I was hoping some listers could tell me about their >favorite stores for music acquisition. I'm guessing this has been covered >before, but my searches on Escribe did not yield much. I'm lazy, and only visit two stores regularly: for boots and rarities, Revolution Records on W. 8th Street between 5th and 6th. One flight up, with the big REVOLVER poster in the window. If you're into bootleg rock videos, ask the guy at the desk for the list. Oh, they claim to open every day at 11:00am, but only a fool would believe that. 12:30 or 1. For everything else: J&R Music, Park Row. Excellent selection, and three quarters of the stock always seem to be on sale. Also, amazing music DVD selection in the basement, not to mention the most comprehensive VHS/DVD porn selection in the city. Occasionally I'll check out the Towers, but only for the bargain bins and music DVDs. Their regular prices are obscene, selection mediocre. There's also Sounds and Venus Records (of Carino fame) on St. Marks. Excellent bargain bin and used sections. Sallitt and Paoli know a lot more than I in this regard. Gentlemen? I use Amazon for imports, mostly. Everything must go, JS "It all comes down to who's by your side." --Tag line on the movie poster for A WALK TO REMEMBER starring Mandy Moore, seen in a Brooklyn subway station tonight. "No, it doesn't, and it is REALLY important to know this." --Scrawled just beneath it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:51:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jer Fairall Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? > With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career > has garnered, it's startling to think that on the > release of her third studio CD she has yet > to see her 28th birthday. Well, UNDER RUG SWEPT is technically her *fifth* studio album, but the first two don't really count. Jer np: Ramones, ROCKET TO RUSSIA ===== Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:58:41 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Dumbest Blurb Ever? >With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career has garnered, it's >startling to think that on the release of her third studio CD she has yet >to see her 28th birthday. I think this was merely an editing error. "With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career has garnered, it's startling to think that on her 28th birthday she has yet to see the release of her third studio CD." See, that makes much more sense. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:01:03 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores >>As an NYC newbie, I was hoping some listers could tell me about >their >>favorite stores for music acquisition. I'm guessing this has been >covered >>before, but my searches on Escribe did not yield much. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess a lot of people will come to NYC at some point, and if Sharples can go on-list, then so shall I: Holy Cow -- my favorite store, bar none. I go there every weekday. It's in Brooklyn and is utterly unpredictable. The key: Park Slope has a huge population of musicians/music writers, and only four stores that buy used product. Two of those are tiny and one (the one on 5th Ave near 9th Street) looks like it's run by R. Crumb's brother. That leaves Holy Cow. Also the owner is extremely nice. Place an order w/him on Thursday and he'll have it on Friday which mostly eliminates the need for CDNOW, Amazon, etc. Don's -- in Brooklyn, on Amity Street -- a small, strange shop that looks like a '70's rec room. The owner's a little creepy, but he packs a really wide selection of stuff into a small space. Concentration is on garage type rock, but he's got exotica, '60's comedy, etc. including a surprising amount of vinyl in good condition. Prices can get high for some things. Interesting bargain bins out front. Rockit Scientist -- on Carmine Street in NYC -- the owner, John, needs to get out more, but he remembers customers and tries to match you up with things you'll like. Gets all the good '60's boots and reissues. He also tends to get things before the release date. The store is *very* small. Kim's West -- on West 10th in NYC, I believe. I'm bad w/streets -- the human face of the Kim's empire, which did "Other Music" before those creeps at Other Music did. There are other Kim's, but this is the only one where the staff won't give you *that* look, and the selection is very well thought out. Also it's quiet and a pleasant place to browse, as opposed to Other Music where someone's bumping into you every two seconds. The used selection is miniscule, but surprisingly worthwhile. I second Sharples' vote for J&R Music World. Support a major business that actually has a decent selection. Great sales as well. And yeah, Tower is pretty lame. Kim's on St. Marks -- the Mall of America of indie culture. Floor after floor of the stuff. Great used section, and they have pretty much everything "indie" that your heart could desire. The staff sucks, but such is life. They underprice a lot of OOP items in the used section. Those are my faves. Skip Other Music. Anything they have, Kim's probably has and I'd rather support hardworking Mr. Kim than that bunch of shmoes in their overcrowded shop with their dog living under the krautrock section (ok, he doesn't live there anymore). A brief Other Music story: some time ago, I saw on a website that Simon Turner was releasing a really limited edition 10" vinyl record. I like Simon Turner a lot. I go to Other Music in advance. "Oh yeah, we can order that," they say, "come back in two weeks." Two weeks later, I go back. "Oh yeah, we got it, but then our record buyer decided to keep it. Sorry." Can you get another, I ask. "No, it sold out." Assholes. I only wish that was my only story. Ask JRT about uptown spots, 'cause he's an uptown gal... - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:10:55 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: [loud-fans] Mummy's only looking for her tooth in the ice MB: >>With all the attention Alanis Morissette's career has garnered, it's >>startling to think that on the release of her third studio CD she has yet >>to see her 28th birthday. > >Yeah, compare that to, say, Lennon/McCartney, who were finishing up the >White Album (their what - 11th, 12th?) when they were yet to see their >respective 28th birthdays. Well, tenth if you count MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR. But....y'know.... Harrison was 25. Twenty-eight when he made ALL THINGS MUST PASS. Hey, that little Korean take-out artist finally got nailed (should have been before), Kyoko gets the gold. "Don't worry don't worry don't worry..." JS nw: Bob Kostas: "Coming up next, womens' skeleton..." Say! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:15:49 -0800 From: "West Moran" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores > A brief Other > Music story: some time ago, I saw on a website that Simon Turner was > releasing a really limited edition 10" vinyl record. I like Simon Turner > a lot. I go to Other Music in advance. "Oh yeah, we can order that," > they say, "come back in two weeks." Two weeks later, I go back. "Oh > yeah, we got it, but then our record buyer decided to keep it. Sorry." > Can you get another, I ask. "No, it sold out." Assholes. I only wish > that was my only story. Boy, that IS ultramegasupercrappy. I was all set to fly out to New York and buy music, but this last bit has filled me once again with paranoia and contempt for New York. Funny how easily that comes to me. If I could afford it, I actually would fly to New York and spend all my time browsing in music stores and going to movies, so who the hell am I to judge? By contrast, here is a wonderful thing that happened to me just yesterday: I went to a nice little store here in the Valley called CD Trader (good selection and plenty of used stuff, with the occasional amazing thing I never expected to find ever, like a remastered import copy of Love's first album -- stereo and mono mixes, a la "Pet Sounds", and for only thirteen bucks!). I asked if they had the new Elvis Costello reissues, since I didn't see them on the new release shelves, and the fellow behind the counter said UPS hadn't brought them yet. I said "Well, I'll come back later", and walked out the door. When I did come back about seven hours later, I went over to the shelves where I now saw what I wanted prominently displayed, but as I grabbed them, the counter guy said, "You can put those back -- I saved them for you back here. They were going pretty fast." I hadn't even asked him to do it, and he did it. I am a fairly regular customer there, but I don't even know the guy's name, and here he is looking out for me! Now that's class. On the other hand, I am boycotting the Tower in Woodland Hills, since their employees are alarmingly like the cast of "Clerks", which isn't as much fun as watching the movie. Those trolls won't even open the damn doors on time. Needless to say, I would like to live at Amoeba. I am, at this moment, watching "That 80's Show", and a guy is walking into a record store with a milk crate of records under his arm. I am suddenly overcome with nostalgia for the days when I kept albums in stolen milk crates, and I feel old and silly. At least I'm not alone. Am I? Yesterday And Today (but Tomorrow Never Knows), West. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:50:41 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, O Geier wrote: > the upper right hand corner 'Post Office will not deliver mail without > postage'. What bothers me is it's inaccuracy. The Post Office is a > structure, not a service, and does not deliver mail. The US Postal > Service delivers mail, and will NOT deliver mail without postage. In addition to John's remarks, I'll add that you're forgetting the well established rhetorical trope called "synecdoche" (not a city in NY), in which a part stands in for a whole, the specific for the general, or vice versa. "The White House today announced..." Language seldom works literally. For example, your envelope does not have a hand - so if we're speaking literally, it has no upper right hand corner either. (And if it did, it would be its upper *left* hand corner, assuming it's facing you. No I have not been dipping into the blotter acid.) And actually, it's individual employees of the US Postal Service who deliver mail - the US Postal Service is a corporation or governmental organization, not an individual. Gotcha! - --Jeff, who does have hands J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:52:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Dana L Paoli wrote: > Shouldn't we applaud them for bringing metonymy to the masses? Dana's right - I am shamed. Please beat me about the head with a large dictionary of Greek rhetorical terms. Oh - and _Metonymy for the Masses_ was by far the best Spandau Ballet album. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I've been praying a lot lately - it's because I no longer have a TV:: __Mark Eitzel__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:59:48 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, West Moran wrote: > I am, at this moment, watching "That 80's Show", and a guy is walking into a > record store with a milk crate of records under his arm. I am suddenly > overcome with nostalgia for the days when I kept albums in stolen milk > crates, and I feel old and silly. At least I'm not alone. Am I? No, you're not. Although I found that milkcrates were always just a leetle bit too small, so that when they were full, either all your records tilted a bit or you tried to cram too many in there - and I was sorely afraid of warpage. (Ironic, considering that after I bought a CD player, my LPs lived for years in a steambath of an attic, stored on some wooden shelves in dubious verticality.) Oh: I haven't watched _That '80s Show_ yet - but seeing the ads, it occurs to me that they don't seem very specific about which trends took hold in which years of that decade. I know when the show's parent show (sorta) began, they would date the early episodes - something they stopped, I think during the second season, realizing probably that if they kept it up, the show'd be in the eighties before they knew it - but they seemed to pay at least moderate attention to the fact that something big in '76 would probably not co-exist with something big in '79. That probably in real life none of the *people* on _That '70s Show_ would hang out together is another issue...seems to be the case on _'80s_ too. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism:: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:15:13 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff I hate the Olympics. I'm surprised they even bother with the lipservice to "internationalalism," since otherwise it's just an orgy of flagwaving. Not to mention that in order to compete at Olympic levels, these folks have to train nearly (in some sports, literally) from childhood, neglecting almost every other part of their lives. Who makes those decisions? Probably not the athletes as children - and if they do, what sort of parent goes along? And of course, if you're Joe or Jill Average, can you afford the sort of coaching that's required? Not to mention the sordid politicking over everything from location to judging - not to mention that whichever city is "lucky" enough to receive the site pisses all over its public in order to accommodate the games. My cousin was attending med school in Atlanta just prior to the Olympics there. Rents in her neighborhood rose astronomically - much housing was just torn down, apparently - and in the name of public image, policing went way out of hand against anyone who didn't fit the desired image, particularly the homeless. As long as I'm ranting, figure skating isn't a sport. At least, not unless ballet is a sport. (Not to denigrate the physical skill involved in both - but figure skating is show biz, as far as I can tell. Of course, it seems like most the major events are that, or at least are presented as such.) Alright, I'm going back to the bed I apparently woke up on the wrong side of this morning... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Being young, carefree, having your whole life ahead of you, ::dancing the night away to celebrate... ::oh, and the untimely death of Jackson Pollock. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:23:47 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Favorite NYC Record (Music?) Stores JF2: >and I was sorely afraid of >warpage... ...in the figures. Radios appear! Sorry, I just had to beat Rog to it... JS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:41:14 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff At Thursday 2/21/2002 12:15 AM -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Not >to mention that in order to compete at Olympic levels, these folks have to >train nearly (in some sports, literally) from childhood, neglecting almost >every other part of their lives. Who makes those decisions? Probably not >the athletes as children - and if they do, what sort of parent goes along? Yeah, I'm sure all those Americans who won medals in snowboarding (for example) have been training for it since childhood. "Kelly, stop watching Barney and get out there and practice with your new snowboard!! It could become an Olympic sport someday!" I know that my family would go down to the local luge track nearly every weekend when I was a kid, and I broke my dad's heart when I told him (at age 14) that I really did not want to devote my life to sliding down a hill. Though it kind of ended up that way anyway. >As long as I'm ranting, figure skating isn't a sport. Agree with ya there, pardner. I could easily live the rest of my life without seeing any kind of figure skating on TV. I spent 10 years, half my life... Why am I not sleeping? Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:48:29 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Not > to mention that in order to compete at Olympic levels, these folks have to > train nearly (in some sports, literally) from childhood, neglecting almost > every other part of their lives. Some don't start till their teens, and often, if not usually in this country, it is the future athlete who decides. In other countries it may be the parents or even the government who decides, but that's not necessarily limited to athletics, either. Who goes along (in a situation where the athlete does decide)? Parents who think their children might actually know what they want to do with their young lives and support them, and I doubt that the majority would push the kids to continue if they decided they weren't happy. Since some go on to become doctors and other professionals, and are in school at the time they are competing, and have hobbies as well, then it seems highly unlikely that all they do is train for sports. Professional ballet dancers train, and train heavily, from childhood, as well as other non-Olympic competitive or physically demanding activities. I also suspect that many of these athletes are already skiing or skating or sledding and decide that they are good enough or passionate about it to want to take it up another notch. So, if it's something they enjoy doing and enjoy training for, then is it so much of a sacrifice? > And of course, if you're Joe or Jill Average, can you afford the sort of > coaching that's required? At least one athlete profiled this year alone had financial backing from hometown volunteers for his training since his family could not afford it. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:13:02 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] trifling language irks.. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Shouldn't we applaud them for bringing metonymy to the masses? > > Dana's right - I am shamed. Please beat me about the head with a large > dictionary of Greek rhetorical terms. OK, I've always been confused between metonymy and synecdoche. So I went to my dictionary, and here's what I get: Synecdoche--"a figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for the part, the special for the general or the general for the special, as in "ten sail" for ten ships or "a Croesus" for a rich man." Metonymy--"the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as "scepter" for "sovereignty" or "the bottle" for "strong drink" or "count heads (or noses)" for "count people." OK, so is "Post Office will not deliver without proper postage" an example of metonymy or synechdoche? As I'm reading this, it sounds more like synecdoche if "Post Office" is standing in for "US Postal Service" since the post office (the building) is part of USPS. From the examples, synecdoche seems to rely on a more literal relationship between the part and the whole, while metonymy leans toward a more figurative relationship. ('A Croesus' seems more literal in that it is a particular instantiation of 'rich man', as opposed to say 'Porsche driver.') But like I said, I've always been confused by these things. - --Michael, who, incidentally, has a personal policy against criticizing the USPS as long as they continue to fund America's only cycling team in Europe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Olympic stuff On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > As long as I'm ranting, figure skating isn't a sport. At least, not unless > ballet is a sport. (Not to denigrate the physical skill involved in both - Agreed here. Anything which is fundamentally a matter of subjective judgement doesn't qualify as a sport in my book. Are there any objective rules that determine in any way what a skaters score should be? Sure, there's an element of subjectivity in many things I would call sports--like calling fouls in basketball, but still, there's a fundamental objective criterion for judging winners. - --Michael ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #74 ******************************