From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #61 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, February 9 2002 Volume 02 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["R. K] [loud-fans] blelly [dmw ] [loud-fans] U2 [DOUDIE@aol.com] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["Jos] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects [Michael] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["Pete ] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Lilac6 [Dan Sallitt ] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["Ia] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["An] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects [E] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects [] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["John S] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Aaron Mandel ] RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects [Elizabeth Setler ] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] U2 ["Roger Winston" ] [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis [Carolyn Dorsey ] [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization ["Brian Block" ] Re: [loud-fans] U2 [Elizabeth Setler ] [loud-fans] grunge influences [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis ["Roger Winston" ] Re: [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] Public Service Announcement with Jeff somewhat in mind (ns) [] RE: [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects ["John S] Re: [loud-fans] blelly ["John Sharples" ] [loud-fans] no more fastbacks [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] no more fastbacks ["Andrew Hamlin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:34:57 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects Jeffrey writes: >> 4. U2 > >Wait a minute: U2 ahead of...well, lots of other bands? Popular, yes - and >they spawned a few imitators...but really, I'm uncertain how *influential* >they've been. Discuss; w/r/t what TOTN means by "influential" and what its >listeners think it means. I agree. There were some mid-80's bands that were influenced by U2 (The Alarm and Big Country spring to mind - though this might be a bit unfair to big country). In general, U2 is the only band that sounds like U2. I love U2, as much as I blush to confess that sometimes. However, I also feel like their classic 80's style was - for lack of a better word - limiting. I don't have the terminology or the musical education to explain why I think this. All I can say is that they seemed to be painting with a very limited palette. Made some great paintings with those colors, though... >> 11. CSNY/Neil Young >> 12. Bob Dylan/The Band I assumed these two were cases where the four "acts" were lumped together to allow more bands to be on the list. This also raises the question of whether CSN was an influence without Y or not. Frankly, while they were probably more influential than U2, I am not sure that I would put CSN on that list. If we're going to talk in terms of influence, I would have put the Eagles on the list around CSN's place. Then I would have wept many bitter tears. Actually, my biggest concern was seeing Black Sabbath on the list at all. Perhaps this is some tribute to Ozzy's longevity. Never-the-less, I think Motorhead should get that spot before Sabbath. Ah, what do I know. R. Kevin Doyle Honolulu, HI ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:37:22 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] blelly On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Dana L Paoli wrote: > Re: Tanya Donelly: I was just listening to one of her old singles the > other day (Gepetto b/w Sexy S) and marvelling at how quirky and good it > is compared with the big single "Feed the Tree." I never bought any of > her stuff after the first album, but I've always wondered if she had > other singles and/or album tracks that were as interesting as > Gepetto/Sexy S. I think the album _Star_ has a couple of tracks at least as good as "Gepetto;" "Untogether" is personally one of my favorite dozen or so songs of the nineties, period: dead simple chord changes sitting not quite where you expect them under a gorgeous, bouyant melody and a lyric, that, after I started singing it, changed from word salad to a trenchant, if metaphorical, look at dealing with the aftermath of ...stuff. and "Slow Dog" is awful damn good too. But I liked "Feed the Tree," more or less, despite some arrangement gambits obvious to the *big *emphasis *track that bug me. _Star_ is kind of plagued with a bunch of long, slow tunes with not quite enough melodic content for me; they all run together in my head and get typified by "low red moon" which is the one that has enough personality that I can recall it to mind. But the highpoints make it worthwhile, imho. I liked some of the material on _King_ quite a bit, but found the big slick rock sound of it kind of offputting. Produced by Glynn Johns, a freaking genius with zillions of credits -- he helped mix _Who's Next_ for chrissakes -- but not I think the right personality for Belly. Didn't stop "Superconnected" from being a staple on my mixtapes for years, though. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:26:37 EST From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] U2 In a message dated 2/8/02 4:38:00 AM, rkdoyle@midpac.edu writes: << I agree. There were some mid-80's bands that were influenced by U2 (The Alarm and Big Country spring to mind - though this might be a bit unfair to big country). In general, U2 is the only band that sounds like U2. >> Sorry, I have to pipe in here. I have a roomate who constantly moans and groans about how much modern rock these days sounds like U2. I do think they are incredibly influential. For instance, take Radiohead. I think they purposely went off in the direction of Kid A/Amnesiac to move away from the U2 influence, but could songs like Let Down and Fake Plastic Trees have really come before the Joshua Tree? Me thinks not. If you acknowledge that, then you have shitload of bands out there (Coldplay, Travis, Doves, and on and on and on and on) that sound like U2. It makes their comeback with Beautiful day seem pretty inevitable. Then there's that whole school of Dave Matthews/David Gray that you can also trace back to U2. I remember laughing upon hearing Live's Pain Lies by the Riverside because it bit on U2 so hard... and they became one of the bigger grunge bands of that time. That said, I think that the Pixies and My Bloody Valentine were hugely seminal in what rock bands sounded like in the 90's because their sounds were so original. You can pretty much trace U2 back to Springsteen/Van Morrison with a bit of Joy Division thrown in to account for Adam Clayton's bass tones. Ok enough, Steven Matrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 08:27:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Actually, my biggest concern was seeing Black Sabbath on the list at all. > Perhaps this is some tribute to Ozzy's longevity. Never-the-less, I think > Motorhead should get that spot before Sabbath. Them's fightin' words! Sabbath more or less invented an entire genre of music. Any metal band today gets at least part of its sound from the Sabs including Metallica (who own up to it). J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:45:24 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > are incredibly influential. For instance, take Radiohead. I think they > purposely went off in the direction of Kid A/Amnesiac to move away from the > U2 influence, but could songs like Let Down and Fake Plastic Trees have > really come before the Joshua Tree? I think I know what you're getting at...but I don't really hear U2 in there, particularly not in "Let Down." U2 didn't *invent* that sort of impassioned, melodic rock tenor thing, after all - and "Let Down" is a lot more complex rhythmically than it might sound, more than U2's likely to work with. > then you have shitload of bands out there (Coldplay, Travis, Doves, and on > and on and on and on) that sound like U2. I'd have to say those bands are following (their vastly oversimplified version of) Radiohead, along w/a bit of Jeff Buckley, more than U2. Of course, your point is that Radiohead themselves are following U2. > Matthews/David Gray that you can also trace back to U2. I remember laughing > upon hearing Live's Pain Lies by the Riverside because it bit on U2 so > hard... and they became one of the bigger grunge bands of that time. Now this I don't get at all. Okay, admittedly I'm not that familiar w/Matthews or Gray - but what I've heard doesn't remind me of U2 at all. As for the hideous Live - again, I just don't hear it. The rhythm is far more agitated than U2's approach, and Skinny Shirtless Guy's singing is way more Vedderesque than Bono-like. Okay, they all seem to want to make Big Statements - but again, Bono & Co. didn't invent that idea. > That said, I think that the Pixies and My Bloody Valentine were hugely > seminal in what rock bands sounded like in the 90's because their sounds were > so original. Yes - two grievous omissions (doubtless because even though bands namecheck them all the time, in their own right they were never that massively popular). You can pretty much trace U2 back to Springsteen/Van Morrison > with a bit of Joy Division thrown in to account for Adam Clayton's bass tones. Interesting notion - I think so. Not sure about the Joy Division thing...weren't they roughly contemporary? That kind of bright, sprongy bass sound was sort of in the air...actually, I'd credit Chris Squire from Yes. ;) What's weird is that I remember *very* early U2 being slotted by critics at the time along w/the Psychedelic Furs, Echo & the Bunnymen, and The Teardrop Explodes as somehow "neo-psychedelic"! BTW, I was just listening to a very old mix tape that contained "An Dubh Cat/Into the Heart" from the first U2 album - I'd forgotten how good that stuff is. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I've been praying a lot lately - it's because I no longer have a TV:: __Mark Eitzel__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:38:33 -0500 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects At 08:27 PM 2/7/2002 -0600, steve wrote: >TOTN Listeners' Top 25 Most Influential Bands of All Time > > 1. The Beatles > 2. The Rolling Stones etc., etc. Anyone else notice that they left out Buddy Holly & the Crickets (pretty much invented the idea of the self-contained whiteboy rock combo playing their own original material) and Chuck Berry (who pretty much invented rock songwriting, period, as well as being a, shall we say, somewhat influential guitarist)? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:20:44 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 I can understand the complaint that U2 isn't 'influential.' (Although, honestly, I find that a pretty muddied concept, except in so far as bands specifically state who influenced them.) But I think it's worth nothing that no other *band* has made culturally relevant music for as long as U2. After more than 20 years, they're still taken seriously across a very wide spectrum of music listeners. With the possible exception of The Beatles, I bet U2 gets played on more radio stations in the country than anyone else--at least parts of their music seem to fit in every genre out there. If influential is meant to be musically influential, then they probably were overrated, but if it's meant to be culturally influential, then they were certainly underrated. I agree The Pixies was a striking omission from the list--not so sure about My Bloody Valentine though. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects I love lists like this. They're always "wrong". - --- steve wrote: > TOTN Listeners' Top 25 Most Influential Bands of All Time > > 1. The Beatles > 2. The Rolling Stones > 3. Led Zeppelin > 4. U2 > 5. Pink Floyd > 6. The Velvet Underground > 7. The Ramones > 8. Nirvana > 9. The Doors > 10. Grateful Dead > 11. CSNY/Neil Young > 12. Bob Dylan/The Band > 13. The Jimi Hendrix Experience > 14. The Who > 15. The Beach Boys > 16. The Clash > 17. The Sex Pistols > 18. Eric Clapton > 19. Elvis Presley > 20. Metallica > 21. Parliament > 22. REM > 23. Black Sabbath > 24. The Byrds > 25. Iggy Pop and the Stooges Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:22:30 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 At 10:45 AM 2/8/2002 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >What's weird is that I remember *very* early U2 being slotted by critics >at the time along w/the Psychedelic Furs, Echo & the Bunnymen, and The >Teardrop Explodes as somehow "neo-psychedelic"! Labels aren't ever that useful, but the sound of very early U2 *does* belong in that post-punk milieu. Throw the Cure and Joy Division/New Order in there too, and you have a lot of U.K./Ireland bands featuring propulsive, up-front bass carrying a lot of the melody, and guitars that are more about creating atmosphere and feel than about soloing (though Will of the Bunnymen and Robert Smith can certainly tear it up). In fact, the sound of the Psychedelic Furs seems like the outlier in this group -- dense atmospheric guitars, sure, but Tim Butler's bass playing seems to be a lot more in the traditional rock "rhythm instrument" school. In fact, I always have a difficult time thinking of comparisons for the Furs, because they've always sounded mostly like themselves. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:37:33 -0500 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Lilac6 > Yes, Stephen and Nick Duffy are both in the band. I don't have the CD > handy, but I think Nick wrote the two instrumental tracks ("Jupe Longue" > and "June Buffalo"), and Stephen wrote everything else. That makes sense. I thought for a while that maybe "Entourage" might go with those tracks, because of the less folky, more jazzy/European/lounge feel it shares with "Jupe Longue." > Lots of fans of the older Lilac Time albums didn't care for > Lilac6, but I think it's one of the best things Stephen's ever done. I like this album a lot. "Wasted" is an especially gorgeous song; "My Forest Brown" is beautiful too. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:51:22 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > In fact, the sound of the Psychedelic Furs seems like the outlier in this > group -- dense atmospheric guitars, sure, but Tim Butler's bass playing > seems to be a lot more in the traditional rock "rhythm instrument" > school. In fact, I always have a difficult time thinking of comparisons > for the Furs, because they've always sounded mostly like themselves. This is weird, but...crossbreed the Velvets' two-guitar attack w/the way the Cramps used two, very differently FX'd guitars...and i guess, toss in a bit of Andy Mackay's sax playing from Roxy Music (we're talking the classic first two albums here - although I still love _Forever Now_, and after a couple of eh-eh albums, their last two are grossly underrated). Then you've still got Richard Butler's vocals to deal with - an instrument in its own right. Agree w/M. Bowen on Chuck Berry & Buddy Holly... Oh: something in Michael Mitton's comment made me want to clarify that believing that U2 isn't as "influential" as the list says doesn't mean I don't think they were any good, or popular, etc. They remain one of those acts that, even if you don't actually *like* them, cannot be counted out of action (or out of somehow moving into a new area of music that, despite your prior dislike, you end up liking anyway). (I'm with them through _Unforgettable Fire_, less so with _Joshua Tree_, on maybe two tracks on the misguided _Rattle & Hum_, pretty much w/_Achtung_ and _Zoo_, less so w/_Pop_ (never quite grabbed me), same w/_Behind_.) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::American people like their politics like Pez - small, sweet, and ::coming out of a funny plastic head. __Dennis Miller__ np: cow-orker's cell phone ring - left my CDs at home, dammit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:27:09 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects Joe wrote: > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > > Actually, my biggest concern was seeing Black Sabbath on > the list at > > all. Perhaps this is some tribute to Ozzy's longevity. > > Never-the-less, I think Motorhead should get that spot > before Sabbath. > > Them's fightin' words! Sabbath more or less invented an > entire genre of music. Any metal band today gets at least > part of its sound from the Sabs including Metallica (who own > up to it). Damn right Joe! I thought it strange that the Sabs are rated *below* Metallica... And, er, how come Eric Clapton and Presley are "bands"? I also wonder about the Dead being on the list - I love the Dead's late 60s/early 70s period but I don't really see how they are influential. Too much has been already said of U2's influence, I'd have them way down the list. - no.4 should either be the Byrds or the Beach Boys in my book (how come the Byrds are below REM?). And if we include the Ramones, The Clash and the Pistols then we really ought to have Television... And Roxy Music were a huge influence on punk... And how many bands were formed because of the Monkees TV series, I wonder? Probably a damn sight more than CSNY (I'd probably say that Neil & Crazy Horse, Buffalo Springfield The Hollies and Byrds have been more influential than CSNY) And yes it's way too rockist. If we're actually talking about artists here then I'd also have Gram Parsons, who though I feel is overrated, has been hugely influential. Also some of the soul or blues artists like Smokey, Marvin, Aretha, Otis, BB or Muddy who've all had a much greater influence over the direction of popular music than say Metallica, Nirvana or U2 - Parliament seem like a weird inclusion here - seems like someone said "hey better have some funk in there somewhere - I'd probably plump for James Brown. Ian Np Velvet Crush - A Single Odessey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:49:42 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > > I remember laughing > upon hearing Live's Pain Lies by the Riverside because it bit on U2 so > hard... and they became one of the bigger grunge bands of that time. Live was considered a grunge band? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:02:43 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects >And, er, how come Eric Clapton and Presley are "bands"? I also wonder >about the Dead being on the list - I love the Dead's late 60s/early 70s >period but I don't really see how they are influential. They don't have jam bands in your country, Ian. Some--and I would, generally, dispute this--but, some, would consider you lucky indeed. Let's go out to dinner and see a movie? Andy ANGERED BY SNUBBING, LIBYA, CHINA SYRIA FORM AXIS OF JUST AS EVIL Cuba, Sudan, Serbia Form Axis of Somewhat Evil; Other Nations Start Own Clubs Beijing (SatireWire.com)  Bitter after being snubbed for membership in the "Axis of Evil," Libya, China, and Syria today announced they had formed the "Axis of Just as Evil," which they said would be way eviler than that stupid Iran-Iraq-North Korea axis President Bush warned of his State of the Union address. Axis of Evil members, however, immediately dismissed the new axis as having, for starters, a really dumb name. "Right. They are Just as Evil... in their dreams!" declared North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. "Everybody knows we're the best evils... best at being evil... we're the best." Diplomats from Syria denied they were jealous over being excluded, although they conceded they did ask if they could join the Axis of Evil. "They told us it was full," said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. "An Axis can't have more than three countries," explained Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. "This is not my rule, it's tradition. In World War II you had Germany, Italy, and Japan in the evil Axis. So you can only have three. And a secret handshake. Ours is wicked cool." THE AXIS PANDEMIC International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift, as within minutes, France surrendered. Elsewhere, peer-conscious nations rushed to gain triumvirate status in what became a game of geopolitical chairs. Cuba, Sudan, and Serbia said they had formed the Axis of Somewhat Evil, forcing Somalia to join with Uganda and Myanmar in the Axis of Occasionally Evil, while Bulgaria, Indonesia and Russia established the Axis of Not So Much Evil Really As Just Generally Disagreeable. With the criteria suddenly expanded and all the desirable clubs filling up, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, and Rwanda applied to be called the Axis of Countries That Aren't the Worst But Certainly Won't Be Asked to Host the Olympics; Canada, Mexico, and Australia formed the Axis of Nations That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About America, while Spain, Scotland, and New Zealand established the Axis of Countries That Be Allowed to Ask Sheep to Wear Lipstick. "That's not a threat, really, just something we like to do," said Scottish Executive First Minister Jack McConnell. While wondering if the other nations of the world weren't perhaps making fun of him, a cautious Bush granted approval for most axes, although he rejected the establishment of the Axis of Countries Whose Names End in "Guay," accusing one of its members of filing a false application. Officials from Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chadguay denied the charges. Israel, meanwhile, insisted it didn't want to join any Axis, but privately, world leaders said that's only because no one asked them. [--from http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:22:17 -0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects At 8:27 PM +0000 2/8/02, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: >Parliament seem like a weird inclusion here - >seems like someone said "hey better have some funk in there somewhere - >I'd probably plump for James Brown. The first time I saw Parliament (whom I, personally, love) listed somewhere as enormously influential, I scratched my head too. Then I realized I was totally forgetting about hip-hop. Much of the more interesting music I've heard in that genre owes a pretty large debt to Mr. Clinton... On the Googlewhack thing, did y'all know your two search words are supposed to be in quotes? A newsgroup I read found that out late in the game... maybe everyone knows and I'm just being pointlessly helpful, but the phrasing of a few posts led me to think otherwise. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:34:53 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, jenny grover wrote: > Live was considered a grunge band? In the original sense of grunge, i.e.: "stinky disgusting shit you want nothing to do with." I think they get lumped in due to Skinny Shirtless Guy's Vedderisms, contemporaneity, and a somewhat similar audience - but I 'd agree, they're not "really" grunge...whatever 'grunge" actually might mean. I've always taken it to mean the resurgence of '70s-based hard-rock stylings, but w/o the rock-god gutiar heroics, and w/a generally more sludgy, bass-y sound: see Melvins for paradigmatic example. I've never really felt Nirvana - exc. maybe a song or two on _Bleach_ - belonged there. But it came to mean post-Pearl Jam bands that glutted up the so-called 'alternative" radio in the mid-90s...Seven Mary 3, Stone Pimple Toilets, etc. etc. etc. But you, Jen, are probably the expert on this list: what's your def? - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::In terms of the conjunctures of cultures, [LA is] less like a salad bowl ::and more like a TV dinner with those little aluminium barriers keeping ::all the vegetables in their places. __Catherine Ann Driscoll__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:36:11 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Elizabeth Setler wrote: > On the Googlewhack thing, did y'all know your two search words are > supposed to be in quotes? I really do not think this is true. Put them in quotes, and you're looking for those two words occurring right next to each other, in that order. In the old days of googlewhacking (i.e. two weeks ago) this was definitely not the criterion. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:41:04 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:22:17 -0800, Elizabeth Setler wrote: >On the Googlewhack thing, did y'all know your two search words are >supposed to be in quotes? A newsgroup I read found that out late in >the game... maybe everyone knows and I'm just being pointlessly >helpful, but the phrasing of a few posts led me to think otherwise. None of the sites I see mention it. It seems like it would make it too easy. In fact, I assumed quotes should be illegal. Google for Googlewhack. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > They remain one of those acts that, even if you don't actually *like* > them, cannot be counted out of action (or out of somehow moving into a > new area of music that, despite your prior dislike, you end up liking > anyway). I have a tendency to get snippy when I'm told that I "cannnot count out" a band who've done nothing for me but cause annoyance in the roughly 15 years I've known they existed. More importantly, perhaps, they're one of the few bands for which saying "Don't give up on them!" is almost completely pointless -- one is going to end up hearing their next single repeatedly whether one wants to or not. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:44:31 -0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects >On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Elizabeth Setler wrote: > >> On the Googlewhack thing, did y'all know your two search words are >> supposed to be in quotes? > >I really do not think this is true. Put them in quotes, and you're looking >for those two words occurring right next to each other, in that order. You know what? I'm wrong. I went back and read the posting in question, and what the person said was that she *had* been using quotes and found out you didn't have to. I guess my eye just read it as the opposite because it seems like you'd be more likely to err on the side of easiness, or something. Pay no attention. I'll just scurry off into my corner. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:07:31 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: > I have a tendency to get snippy when I haven't slept well, actually. My last few posts have been a little harsh, with no good reason. Sorry about that. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:08:21 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > But you, Jen, are probably the expert on this list: what's your def? My def is that the Everett-True-fueled-by-Pavitt-and-Poneman coined G-word was a marketing tool used to try to nail down a scene that wasn't really a homogeneous scene. Any potentially marketable Sabbath-based, slow-groove Seattle area hard rock band, and their friends who may or may not have sounded anything like them but might be sign-able, got lumped into it. Then it became the flannel and long-johns magazine spread fashion statement. Then it brought in "carpetbagger bands" (bands who weren't from Seattle but moved there to try to cash in on the swarming hive of A&R pimps), and spawned 2nd and 3rd generation imitators all over the globe. So, I never saw it as a particularly useful descriptive term and I tend to sneer at its usage. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:23:15 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 Aaron Mandel on 2/8/2002 10:07:31 AM wrote: > when I haven't slept well, actually. My last few posts have been a little > harsh, with no good reason. Sorry about that. Hey, you may be snippy, but at least you're not lying to us about Googlewhacking rules like Elizabeth. Latre. --Rog (who really hasn't gotten into U2 much since WAR) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:54:05 -0800 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis Inspiration Information I got this the other day and there are all sorts of glowing superlatives on the cover from various famous people --it seems there's alot of hype around this record. --but I have to say they're right because it's really my favorite record from 2001. I'll bet alot of people will lke this record here. There's one song that sounds strangely similar to Sly Stone's "Family Affair". And fans of Air will find things to like too. It's a reissue from 1974. Here's a review of it, too. http://www.musthear.com/reviews/inspirationinformation.html Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 23:56:03 From: "Brian Block" Subject: [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization Depending on judge's verdict, i may have found a score several times higher than "Peloponnesian blowjob"'s 88 billion. "Lesbo amortization" brings up three hits. However, two of the hits use Lesbo as a last name, leaving exactly one use of the words. If this counts, score is 970,000 times 608,000 equals about 589 billion. "Freebase amortization", which gets one hit exactly, scores about 16.2 billion. However, "Demutualization gemstone", another success, scores a modest 516 million, and "floccinaucinihilipilification concussion" scores 220 million. That "floccinaucinihilipilification" means "the act of declaring something worthless" should, of course, make it a rather sensitive word here on Loud-fans. Just because we have _other_ things to do with our time, doesn't mean they're better. Oh, the phrase Happy Purple Vomit Girls calls up 4,100 sites. But it would call up so many more if someone adopted it as a band name. cheers, -Brian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:59:55 -0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: Re: [loud-fans] U2 At 3:23 PM -0700 2/8/02, Roger Winston wrote: > >Hey, you may be snippy, but at least you're not lying to us about >Googlewhacking rules like Elizabeth. Well, you don't want to set your bad-behavior standards too high; it's awfully tough for anyone to be as evil and misguided as I am. - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:01:49 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] grunge influences I've always thought that "grunge" and all that buzzword implies was really born around the time that Black Flag discovered Black Sabbath and weed. That was, what, late '83 or thereabouts? You can't quite make the case that Black Sabbath itself led directly to grunge the way they were a direct influence on metal -- you have to have that SST Records filter because so much of the grunge aesthetic is inextricably tied to their whole "whatever, dude" way of life, which is the main thing that separated "grunge" from "heavy metal." As metal got increasingly glammy and theatrical, culminating in the whole DECLINE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION PART TWO poodle-metal scene, the grunge scene developed its own codes: bong loads, flannel, Docs, Cap'n Crunch for dinner and cheap beer as opposed to spandex, mousse and eyeliner. The differences were primarily in attitude, not influences. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:04:45 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Brian Block wrote: > However, "Demutualization gemstone", another success, scores a modest > 516 million, and "floccinaucinihilipilification concussion" scores 220 > million. Finding super-low scoring whacks is a decent sport too. "popery laminate", at 5.5M, is my best low so far. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:05:41 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis Carolyn Dorsey on 2/8/2002 7:54:05 PM wrote: > Inspiration Information This brings up approx 1,050,000 hits in Google. Sorry, not a winner! Good try though. Latre. --Rog (am I being annoying enough today?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:05:25 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Shuggie Otis At 06:54 PM 2/8/02 -0800, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: >I got this the other day and there are all sorts of glowing superlatives on >the cover from various famous people --it seems there's alot of hype around >this record. --but I have to say they're right because it's really my >favorite record from 2001. I'll bet alot of people will lke this record >here. There's one song that sounds strangely similar to Sly Stone's "Family >Affair". And fans of Air will find things to like too. This is a fantastic album. '70s funk fans also might want to know (if you don't already) that the Brothers Johnson's big hit "Strawberry Letter 23" was an extremely faithful cover of Shuggie Otis' original. Both versions are stone classics. Trivia fun: Shuggie Otis is the son of Johnny Otis, who was the leading black bandleader in LA in the '40s and '50s despite the fact that he was a dark-skinned Greek passing in reverse as a light-skinned black. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:01:46 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Public Service Announcement with Jeff somewhat in mind (ns) Just a warning. Dymaxion is a very cool name for a band. Their cover art is great. Stereolab are great. Stereolab like Dymaxion. The Fall are great. "US 80's, 90's" is a great Fall song. On the singles collection "Dymaxion x 4+3=38:33" there's a cover of "US 80's, 90's". A band with a cool name, beloved by Stereolab, doing a cover of a great song by the Fall sounds like a great thing to buy. I'm not saying it's bad; I kind of like it in a weird sort of a way, but it's not what you'd expect. Proceed with extreme caution. Inspirational quote from Shari: "Are they playing rubber bands?" - --dana np: The Ray Charles Singers/"MacArthur Park" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:00:28 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Lesbo amortization > Finding super-low scoring whacks is a decent sport too. Oh crap, now you've got me doing it again. escocheon sejeant: 5,225 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:52:50 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Talk of the Nation on NPR, or The Usual Suspects >> 1. The Beatles >> 2. The Rolling Stones > >etc., etc. > >Anyone else notice that they left out Buddy Holly & the Crickets (pretty >much invented the idea of the self-contained whiteboy rock combo playing >their own original material) and Chuck Berry (who pretty much invented rock >songwriting, period, as well as being a, shall we say, somewhat influential >guitarist)? Thank you. *I* noticed...and the massive amount of influence Holly and Berry had on the #1 and #2 bands, even if they didn't influence a single other band, would seem to grant them automatic inclusion. Holly...Berry...speaking of which, I saw MONSTER'S BALL tonight. Interesting. I really liked it, but I should add that the first two acts were so grim the film was flirting with bathos. In fact, halfway through the guy sitting behind me abruptly stood up, announced loudly to the theater that he had "had enough" and left! If nothing else, the sex scene with Berry and Thornton is one of the most intense between marquee actors I've seen since BOUND. Sean Combs was amazingly good, too...typecast as a murdering degenerate... JS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 23:05:27 -0500 From: "John Sharples" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] blelly dmw: Produced by Glynn Johns, a >freaking genius with zillions of credits -- he helped mix _Who's Next_ for >chrissakes Don't stop there. For sheer heaviness, Johns probably has the most impressive resume in rock. He did quite a lot of work on the Beatles' LET IT BE (he remixed both versions of the shelved GET BACK albums--and by the way, I have them both, and while they have their moments, neither are really anywhere near as presentable as the official Spectorized release). He also produced some definitive records for Joan Armatrading and The Eagles, just to give you an idea of his scope. I won't go on, because you can check his entry in AMG, but I will note that he must be the only person to work with the Fabs, the Stones, Led Zep, The Who, and Eric Clapton, the very pantheon of classic Brit rock. Nicky Hopkins worked with the Beatles, Stones, and The Who, and I would imagine he's Glyn's closest competition in that regard. Loves "Feed the Tree," JS PS A loud-fans era, of sorts, comes to an end: I'm leaving my infamous "no-bedroom apartment" in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, which hosted at various times such loud-luminaries as Holtebeck, Janet and Andy, Miles and Melissa, Carino, Bradley, Grahame Davies, ana morales, R. Stevie, and yes, even the Cardinal! The evil landlords are jacking the rent up 25%, and I'm leaving for the greener pastures of...well, a much bigger and cheaper (and rent-stabilized!) studio apartment in Brooklyn. It's on Ocean Parkway, sort of on the line between Midwood and Flatbush (Bushwood?), and of course, you're all welcome to stop by! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 00:24:56 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] no more fastbacks According to the latest Sub Pop newsletter: > The Fastbacks have called it quits after 22 years... The last recorded FBX song was "Waterloo > Sunset" by the Kinks, available on GTPWWW. Their last planned show is at Noisepop, march 16th. > Also, buy their final album "the Day that didnt exist" on Spinart records (available in the > online megamart), it is a masterpiece of a record. > http://www.subpop.com/scripts/main/bands_page.php?id=76 > http://www.subpop.com/bands/various/kinks/ Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:32:25 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] no more fastbacks >> The Fastbacks have called it quits after 22 years... The last recorded FBX song was "Waterloo >> Sunset" by the Kinks, available on GTPWWW. Their last planned show is at Noisepop, march 16th. >> Also, buy their final album "the Day that didnt exist" on Spinart records (available in the >> online megamart), it is a masterpiece of a record. As a far-enough-back Fastbacks fan to recall when it was Lulu, not Kim, who walked out; and to have run across Lulu during her quit-phase, in Tower Records; to recall when Kurt lived with his parents and Richard Stuverud quit for the first time; when Kurt joined the Fellows (never held a candle to the Fastbacks, in my opinion) and hung out with Kim at the first Greil Marcus reading I ever attended; when Kim married Ken Stringfellow (never held a candle, etc.)... ...well, I'm inclined to bow my head and pray. And then see about getting a ticket to their last show. It's all on Girl Trouble now (minus the Mojave Phone Booth), Andy "There is nothing in the universe that can quench my self-hatred. It is the only way I can love the world." - --Jason Flores-Williams, from his novel THE LAST STAND OF MR. AMERICA ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #61 ******************************