From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #54 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, February 4 2002 Volume 02 : Number 054 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results [Roger Winston ] [loud-fans] Alias ["Keegstra, Russell" ] Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] Alias [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] what is the deal? [John Cooper ] RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl [] Re: [loud-fans] what is the deal? ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Alias ["Roger Winston" ] Re: Fwd: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl ["O Geier" ] Re: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: Fwd: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl [Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com] Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results [Aaron Mandel ] [loud-fans] How could I forget.... ["O Geier" ] RE: [loud-fans] Alias [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Alias [Robert Toren ] Re: [loud-fans] Alias ["Roger Winston" ] [loud-fans] tv prison.... ["ana luisa morales" ] RE: [loud-fans] Alias ["Keegstra, Russell" ] [loud-fans] ms jovans landoscam [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] TWotEF.... [Miles Goosens ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 02:04:08 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results >First and foremost, thanks to Aaron for running the poll this year. Ditto, ditto! My only quibble: I'd like to see a post, and/or a web page, with all the results, and all the votes. See, a certain party who shall go nameless, every single one of his picks whiffed the Consensus Top Fifty (even Laurie Anderson--daaaaaaaaamn!), Andy I swear, if a jet engine crashes into my bedroom tonight, I'll be seriously freaked out." - --Amy Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:58:03 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results At Sunday 2/3/2002 05:58 PM -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Aaron Mandel wrote: >[out of 41 voters] > > MOST NORMAL LOUDFANS (raw) > > 41/ Andrew Hamlin (0.32 points) > > > > MOST NORMAL LOUDFANS (weighted) > > 41/ Andrew Hamlin (0.41 points) > >Why does this surprise me not at all? So let me get this straight: We're letting Andy stay? This poll would be a good annual way of trimming the List, ya know... Later. --Rog (Who thought for sure he would be the most abnormal, or at least far down on the list. Guess that #1 vote for MASS ROMANTIC saved me.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:19:42 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: [loud-fans] Alias I can let a lot of crap slide, I'm really a very forgiving guy. I can overlook major plot flaws if I care about the characters, or if I'm really interested to find out what will happen next. I watched last night's Alias, not having seen it since the first two or three episodes, to give it another chance to hold my attention. It didn't. A guy who answered the phone with "What's hippin'", probably the most ill-conceived piece of script hipness since Martin Mull uttered the immortal line "I'm hep" on Wonder Woman 25 years ago. A business card that contains a transmitter which, when placed on a computer's monitor, sends a signal to the CPU that overrides the network connection and makes the computer think you are the sys admin. A 6" x 6" x 4" device which blows up an entire factory. Of course I had spent a good portion of the day earlier watching The Sandbaggers (Yes! Available on DVD! Well, the first two seasons - but if enough people buy these they will probably release the third as well!), which is the best spy series ever, even though it is 23 years old and a clear product of the cold war. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:27:05 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 17:52:20 -0500 (EST), Aaron Mandel wrote: >MOST NORMAL LOUDFANS (weighted) >1/ John Swartzentruber (22.28 points) I feel so very, very honored, but must confess that this is really a fluke. I've been busy (being a father) and poor (being a father) and haven't purchased many new CDs this year. In fact, probably only three of new music. Two of which I voted for (and I regret forgetting Atom and His Package). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:31:41 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:26:04 +0000, Dan Stillwell wrote: >I think many current Virginians consider West Virginians as the "poor >relations." In fact, it's rumored that several southeastern WV counties >have asked if they can "come home" and they've been told, "Hell, no!" Really? A former WV acquaintance claimed that every year VA formally asked WV to return. Just as a formality I assume. I never quite believed it, but it seems to be the opposite of your rumor. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:44:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jon Tveite Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > >> On the other hand, I was a little mortified to see > >> Sir Paul's duet with Terry Bradshaw. > > Well said, sir. Your color commentary here should bring the event > alive for those who missed it. It really was as bad as that. To me, the really sad thing was that Bradshaw sounded better than McCartney. You could almost see and hear him thinking, "Oh god, what have I gotten myself into better go with it I'm on international TV." I also saw the U2 performance, and thought it pretty respectable. "Beautiful Day" is the best song I've heard from them in a long time. I did think it interesting that on a day when every goddamn thing had to be red, white, and blue, they featured 2 British acts so prominently. It's almost like an admission, I guess, of the sorry state of American popular music: they couldn't find a single big name with sufficient gravitas to play in front of the scrolling names. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 09:58:44 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Alias At 08:19 AM 2/4/2002 -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >I can let a lot of crap slide, I'm really a very forgiving guy. I can >overlook major plot flaws if I care about the characters, or if I'm really >interested to find out what will happen next. I watched last night's Alias, >not having seen it since the first two or three episodes, to give it another >chance to hold my attention. It didn't. I've been interested in the characters and haven't been able to wait to see what happens next from the first episode. Of course, I'm not the kind of guy who gets worked up about stuff like improbable whiz-bang gizmos -- unless the show purports to be some sort of realistic depiction of super-secret spy whiz-bang gizmos, which ALIAS doesn't. I can't believe that you don't find the characters compelling, but if you've seen three or for of the first five (last night's rerun was the fifth episode), I guess it just doesn't work for you. :-( I'm hoping that the next new episode will feature Sydney kicking the living crap out of Quentin Tarantino. If she won't do it, I'll be glad to. And in the realm of somewhat less obnoxiously gratuitous ALIAS guest appearances, maybe Sydney will get the chance to kick the living crap out of Patricia Wettig. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:07:08 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia At 10:31 AM 2/4/2002 -0500, John Swartzentruber wrote: >On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:26:04 +0000, Dan Stillwell wrote: > >>I think many current Virginians consider West Virginians as the "poor >>relations." In fact, it's rumored that several southeastern WV counties >>have asked if they can "come home" and they've been told, "Hell, no!" > >Really? A former WV acquaintance claimed that every year VA formally >asked WV to return. Just as a formality I assume. I never quite >believed it, but it seems to be the opposite of your rumor. I've never heard that in my life, and it's just the sort of thing that I think we would have been forced to memorize in West Virginia History (a mandatory requirement for every public-school 8th grader in the state). In the 1980s, Mercer County, WV, had a referendum on the ballot favoring secession from West Virginia and rejoining Virginia. The voters didn't pass it, but it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it had passed -- each state's reaction, court rulings, etc. My friend (and Greater Huntington Area resident) Danny Cantrell used to be fond of saying that he was just waiting for West Virginia to be partitioned among its neighbors, like Poland in the 1790s. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:40:50 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Alias Miles: >I've been interested in the characters and haven't been able >to wait to see what happens next from the first episode. Of >course, I'm not the kind of guy who gets worked up about stuff >like improbable whiz-bang gizmos... I'm normally not, and like I said I'm willing to let a lot of plot contrivances slide. The fact that it bothered me was my final indication that the show had lost me. I also never got into "24" either. The goofy real time gimmick didn't help. The advertising ("...will change the way you watch television") didn't help either. Contrary to the only publicly stated opinion put forward here (IIRC), I liked last week's Buffy. Certainly not their best, easily in the bottom quarter of the Buffy compendium, but still High Art when compared to, say, the Jamie Kennedy Experiment. It was a nice light change of pace to even out the season. Of course it's hard to maintain the season's tone when you only put out one new episode every three weeks interspersed with reruns. Still my favorite show though. Buffy and Angel are pretty much the only currently produced TV I watch - but I don't have cable, otherwise I would probably be watching Farscape as well. >I'm hoping that the next new episode will feature Sydney kicking >the living crap out of Quentin Tarantino. For that, I would watch. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:02:16 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia I'll second everything Dan Stillwell's said about West Virginia -- more succinct than I could have ever managed, and he didn't make mistakes like typing "for" instead of "four" (like I just did in my reply to Russ' ALIAS dis) in any of his messages! :-) To elaborate on a couple of Dan's points: >There was always a dislike between the folks west of the mountains and >the Tidewater/Shenandoah Valley set. That's part of reason the western >counties wanted to secede. The mountain vs. planter conflict wasn't a problem confined to Virginia. East Tennessee, western North Carolina, northern Georgia, and northern Alabama -- Appalachian areas all -- were hotbeds of Unionist sentiment. More than 100,000 white men from the seceded states fought for the Union during the course of the Civil War. These folks weren't exactly subscribers to THE LIBERATOR, but they hated slaveOWNERS and the power and influence they wielded within their states. The "Solid South" was a creation of the 1890s when the war began fading out of living memory, and Jim Crow orthodoxy and Thomas Dixon began casting a reinterpretive shadow over the past. >McDowell County, where I worked for 19 years, was once the state's >largest coal producer. Now its unemployment rate is often the highest in >the country. And why should any business migrate there? Until last year >there wasn't an inch of interstate highway in the county (two are under >construction now). Safe water and proper sewage treatment are >hit-or-miss. And land, even if you have to carve it out of a hillside, >isn't cheap. Think about the cost of constructing interstate highways -- the bridge work involved in spanning the inclines of McDowell makes the per-mile expenses staggering. Building large-scale manufacturing facilities also requires a lot of clearing, grading, and levelling, and it's doubtful that the population is qualified for more than unskilled labor. The soil and mountainsides aren't condusive to farming, and even if they were, small-time agriculture has been on the decline since the 1920s. When Dan and I were at the wake of my father-in-law in late November, one of my former teachers spent a delightful hour chatting with the both of us, and she summed it all up: "McDowell County is doomed by topography." Heck, that ought to be the county's official motto. I can see it on the county welcome signs: "McDowell County: Doomed By Topography." >Those people really do exist, unfortunately. But you can also find >them in abundance in Alabama, Arkansas and Mississippi, among others. You can find them anywhere. I think I've mentioned it in similar discussions here before, but a grad school friend from upstate New York thought that the Middle Tennessee hicks couldn't hold a candle to the ones he grew up with -- and he assured me that the Confederate battle flag was as de rigeur in the back window of their pickups and Cameros as they are in the South. I always think our U.K. natives must be amused at all this, since the stereotypes for "southerner" and "northerner" are directionally reversed over there. I remember Robert Plant once made a point of telling Jeff Foxworthy that the folks who populate his "You Might Be a Redneck if..." jokes are just like the ones he grew up with in England... >And those states don't produce LoudFans :) Presumably someone attended the 1996 Loud Family/Sugarplastic show at the Nick in B'ham (unfortunately I didn't). Maybe they were all expatriates from other places. >(don't EVER call me a southerner) I think most people would perceive us West Virginians as southerners, and with the migration to West Virginia from western NC, southwestern VA, and East Tennessee after the coalfields opened in the 1880s, it probably holds some truth south of the Kanawha. But having lived in Nashville for going on fourteen years, I think there's something different about the Appalachians. I know I'm not like the people here, and less like the ones even further south in Birmingham and Jackson. Plus as an adult, I've totally switched sides on Civil War generals -- I was brought up in the cult of Lee and Jackson, but I'm totally a Grant/Sherman guy now. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] what is the deal? with this new round of e-mail spam which wants my assistance importing something or other. i can't quite figure the scam -- is it just a convoluted way to validate an e-dress by playing on greed? or getting info for attempted identity theft? or what? weird. for the irc (ir)regulars and anyone else entertained by the idea of felines travelling by quantum tunnelling and the like, the "space-time for springers" that i mentioned can be found here: http://depwh02.mw.mediaone.net/kjg2/gummitch.htm (it's not ultimately as cutesy as the first coupla paragraphs might make it seem, i swear.) there's still probably a more rational explanation for how Max got in last night, but i don't need to learn it. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:30:06 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] what is the deal? On 2/4/02, dmw wrote: >with this new round of e-mail spam which wants my assistance importing >something or other. i can't quite figure the scam -- is it just a >convoluted way to validate an e-dress by playing on greed? or getting >info for attempted identity theft? or what? If this is the Nigerian e-mail scam, the definitive article is at: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Why didn't Paul just > >take a leak on a faded Sgt. Pepper album? Even Howie > >Long looked like he was about to cry at how far the > >mighty had fallen. > > Well said, sir. Your color commentary here should bring the event alive for > those who missed it. It really was as bad as that. I really don't understand what all of you are getting your knickers in a twist about. Bradshaw is a harmless goofball who brings welcome energy to that stodgy format; Paul was their halftime guest and they sang a few bars of A Hard Day's Night. What's the big deal? Reminded me of their old Morecombe and Wise spots. I for one was relieved Macca was loose and went with the flow--I expect to just cringe when he makes such appearances because he's tending to become more and more like that impression Dana Carvey used to do: "a it's all a bit shick-a-dee shick-a-doo, y'know?" > I have been a > Patriots fan my entire life and consoled myself with the knowledge that they > had no business beating the Steelers last week and that I should just be > happy that they made it to the Superbowl at all. Hogwash. The Pats had been playing at a higher level than the Steelers for eight weeks, and that 10-point line was such bullshit. (same point-spread as the hapless Lions!?) I knew the Steelers were believing their own press and the Pats were gonna open up a king-size can of whup on their complacent asses. > When I finally realized that New England had won the game, really won the > game, I was so stunned that I felt my legs go weak. I had to sit down. I picked up a certain amount of New England sports fan from my time there and from my NE-based family, and I thought the rest of your post was perfect. When Vinatieri's kick sailed through, high and impossibly down the middle, I couldn't quite comprehend that they had won. Like you, I was expecting some Buckneresque holding penalty. When it finally got through to me, I thought back to the team coming out of the tunnel as a team, eschewing individual introductions, and back to that magic spectacle of the nighttime snow game (didja see the guy repeat his end-zone snow angel??), and I actually got a little misty! > Anyhow, it was maybe the best Superbowl ever, and certainly the best > Patriots game ever. Better game than Jets-Colts, perhaps not as much historical significance. Certainly the Pats' finest moment! JS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:16:42 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] what is the deal? >If this is the Nigerian e-mail scam, the definitive article is at: > The Salon article is quite good, but the following comes closer to "just the facts, Ma'am": http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/nigeria.htm You still can't cheat an honest man (or Ma'am), Andy "You can't get your shit together for the rest of your life--that's like eating lunch for the rest of your life." - --Jules Verdone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > I remember Robert Plant once made a point of telling Jeff Foxworthy that > the folks who populate his "You Might Be a Redneck if..." jokes are > just like the ones he grew up with in England... To quote Jon Stewart, "hwwaahhh?" When, where, how, why did these two meet? Not too drunk to fish, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:42:45 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] what is the deal? Mr. Hamlin points us to Snopes: >http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/nigeria.htm ...which contains a line that I have never heard before, but is destined to become a favorite of mine: ...it's a case of the guy with the broom following the elephant -- the elephant always gets there first. Russ, who is really depressed that I have only received one 419 scam spam, even though I have one email address that gets 5-10 spams daily. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:47:11 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 jsharple@bls.brooklaw.edu wrote: > I really don't understand what all of you are getting your knickers in > a twist about. Bradshaw is a harmless goofball who brings welcome > energy to that stodgy format; Paul was their halftime guest and they > sang a few bars of A Hard Day's Night. Having no particular love for the Beatles, I still flinched a little when the commentator guy managed to get the lyrics wrong. Then my roommate said, "Hey, *I* work like a log." and I had to admit that I do as well. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:36:32 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results Andrew Hamlin wrote: > > >First and foremost, thanks to Aaron for running the poll this year. > > Ditto, ditto! My only quibble: I'd like to see a post, and/or a web page, > with all the results, and all the votes. Me too! Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:57:00 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why Everyone Hates West Virginia Miles Goosens wrote: > > The mountain vs. planter conflict wasn't a problem confined to > Virginia. East Tennessee, western North Carolina, northern Georgia, and > northern Alabama -- Appalachian areas all There is almost nothing of Appalachia in north AL, only a little of the foothills area with large, farmable flatlands and good bottom land in between those hills. You can't get much further north than Huntsville, and that is a big cotton area. Northern Alabamians don't consider themselves part of Appalachia. That was always considered a separate entity, and something of a wilderness, when I was growing up. Kids were sent "up there" to do anthropological field work as part of Foxfire and other study projects, and it was considered a bit scary. > I think most people would perceive us West Virginians as southerners Actually, I find it rather amusing that the West Virginians up here do! Come on! It butts up against Ohio, for cripe sakes! > But having lived in Nashville for going > on fourteen years, I think there's something different about the > Appalachians. There really is, and, like I said, that is the sentiment in north AL, that the Appalachians have their own culture and character. I went to college in the mountains of TN, only 60 miles from Huntsville, and it was like a different world there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:59:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Curley Subject: Fwd: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl U2 is British? - --- Jon Tveite wrote: > I did think it interesting that on a day when every > goddamn thing had to > be red, white, and blue, they featured 2 British > acts so prominently. Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:06:21 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Alias Keegstra, Russell on 2/4/2002 9:40:50 AM wrote: > Contrary to the only publicly stated opinion put forward here (IIRC), I > liked last week's Buffy. Certainly not their best, easily in the bottom > quarter of the Buffy compendium, but still High Art when compared to, say, > the Jamie Kennedy Experiment. It was a nice light change of pace to even > out the season. Spoiler space in case someone hasn't watched the Buffy episode in question yet... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . My problem with the episode, besides the relative dull-ness, the stupid monster, and the non-furtherance of major plotlines, was that I just had a really hard time believing that the Buffyverse FDA and/or FCC has not come down on the Doublemeat Palace chain like a ton of bricks for fraud and false advertising. Since even a five-year managerial employee knew that the burger (and chicken?) patties were actually vegetable matter with some beef fat added, how likely is it that the general public and the government wouldn't know too? Doesn't some government agency or another test the food sold by fast food restaurants to see what is actually in them and to see if they are meeting claims? I just know someone is going to bring up KFC and their secret recipe here... I know, I have to suspend my disbelief. In the great Buffyverse scheme of things this is a minor reality infraction. It wouldn't have bothered me so much, except that it appears the Doublemeat Palace is going to be part of the continuing plotline. I did like the bit with Buffy and Spike humping in the alley though. > Of course it's hard to maintain the season's tone when you > only put out one new episode every three weeks interspersed with reruns. > Still my favorite show though. December and January are always rerun-heavy months for all shows. Seems like new episodes are trotted out pretty much just for sweeps months these days. We'll get a bunch of new eps in a row this month. > Buffy and Angel are pretty much the only > currently produced TV I watch - but I don't have cable, otherwise I would > probably be watching Farscape as well. If you'd be watching Farscape, then you would be doing even more carping about the lack of new episodes. There have been none since last August, and won't be until April. They haven't even finished off the third season yet (4 eps left). The SciFi channel seems to buck the trend and only shows new eps when there is little network competition. Similar to what Comedy Central does with South Park. Later. --Rog (loves Alias, 24 and Farscape) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:08:44 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl U2 is British in that Ireland is one of the British Isles. The English refer to Great Britain as England, and the rest by their respective names (Ireland, Scotland, Wales) or Britain. Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:10:53 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl >U2 is British? "These guys are from England, and who gives a shit?" - --Casey Kasem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:11:16 -0600 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [loud-fans] Re: U2 Bowl According to Casey Kasem: "These guys are from England and who gives a shit!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:21:23 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 poll results On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, jenny grover wrote: > Me too! Here you go: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~aaron/results-01.txt Not very slick, but it has what you want. Someone mentioned being surprised that Kevin Tihista didn't make the leader board -- as luck would have it, he had the highest-ranked record that didn't! By the way, I checked, and the New Pornographers were 29th *last* year, thanks to three loudfans of whom one voted for them again this year, one voted but didn't repeat the NPs, and one has flown the coop entirely. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:23:47 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] How could I forget.... The clydesdale ad for Bud?? Ick! Talk about schmaltz! Where are they stabled anyway? Rye, NY? Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:32:22 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Alias At 10:40 AM 2/4/2002 -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >Miles: >>I've been interested in the characters and haven't been able >>to wait to see what happens next from the first episode. Of >>course, I'm not the kind of guy who gets worked up about stuff >>like improbable whiz-bang gizmos... > >I'm normally not, and like I said I'm willing to let a lot of plot >contrivances slide. The fact that it bothered me was my final indication >that the show had lost me. Understood. And on reflection, I do the same thing sometimes (see below!)... >I also never got into "24" either. The goofy real time gimmick didn't help. >The advertising ("...will change the way you watch television") didn't help >either. I hate stuff like that. For the last couple of seasons of HOMICIDE, NBC kept making overblown "EVENT!" promotions with EPISODE EVENT SUBTITLES! (like HOMICIDE: SIEGE or HOMICIDE: PIGTOWN HOGWALLOW -- OK, they didn't use the last subtitle, though they could have) out of what seemed like half the episodes. I kept thinking "If I didn't know and like this show already, I sure wouldn't watch it after this commercial." Or as much as I like(d) ED, when NBC moved it to Wednesdays, on the same evening with the vastly overrated WEST WING and the clinical LAW AND ORDER, NBC rolled out these pompous, self-righteous "TV's Most Honored Night" promos that made me feel like watching a Springer marathon just to balance things out. Speaking of ED, it's seemed a little flat this year. But when I thought about the show's plots, aside from the endless, pointless "Molly liberates herself from the past" episode (where she inexplicably had her car dumped into a shallow pond in a park, in daylight, in front of God and man and the law -- see, Russ, I was so disenchanted with this episode that I'm questioning the technicalities!), they seemed fine. And having Carol fall for the asshole new principal was inspired, and very true to her character's form. But I finally figured it out: it's the damn *music.* It was bad enough to replace the theme music (they junked a perfectly-placed Foo Fighters song for an icky Clem Snide snippet, the latter written to order for the show's producers, so they have no one to blame but themselves), but the incidental music -- the stingers, segue themes, and what have you -- is the most enervating, lifeless stuff I've ever heard. It kills scenes dead. I swear, if a season ever needed a George Lucas-style ex post facto makeover, it's this one. Thinking about the latter seasons of HOMICIDE makes me think about Callie Thorne's nose, which was sizable but distinctive and even alluring. The show's male characters once had a discussion about Kay (Melissa Leo) where they concluded that what made her "hot" was her mane of red hair; if they'd done the same for Callie, they would have said "the nose!." But by the final season, she must have succumbed to the idea that it was costing her jobs, and she had some work done. Now she's just another ordinarily cute actress instead of a striking one. Sigh. I can't opine about 24, having never watched it (see my FARSCAPE comment below). I've got them all on tape, I think. Of course, F/X will probably have the inevitable "24 hours of 24" marathon sometime this summer, so if I like it and missed one or two, I'm sure I'll be able to see 'em all. >Contrary to the only publicly stated opinion put forward here (IIRC), I >liked last week's Buffy. Certainly not their best, easily in the bottom >quarter of the Buffy compendium, but still High Art when compared to, say, >the Jamie Kennedy Experiment. It was a nice light change of pace to even >out the season. Melissa and I concur. The "something is wrong!" thing could be predicted from the moment you saw the episode's setting, sure, but played well enough. Part of the episode's tedium was, I think, intentional -- a job at the local burger barn is nothing if not slow going. There were also some nice "character" moments (Spike's offer to steal for Buffy springs to mind). And as Russ says, the bottom quarter of the Buffy compendium still whips just about anything else. I will also note that the bottom quarter of the Buffy compendium is far better than, say, the bottom quarter of THE X-FILES compendium. >Of course it's hard to maintain the season's tone when you >only put out one new episode every three weeks interspersed with reruns. That's true about many, maybe most, network shows from mid-December through January. Holidays, bowl games, and saving stuff for February sweeps all contribute to the meager new TV pickin's. >Still my favorite show though. Buffy and Angel are pretty much the only >currently produced TV I watch - but I don't have cable, otherwise I would >probably be watching Farscape as well. I was excited when I heard that the Sci-Fi channel was going to start rerunning FARSCAPE in order. It was one of those shows like BABYLON 5: I was suspicious of it at first so I didn't watch it, then I belatedly heard good things about it from reliable sources, but when I tried to jump in, the plot had become so byzantine that I felt adrift without seeing the early episodes. Unfortunately, FARSCAPE's from-the-beginning launch on Sci-Fi coincided with the new fall season *and* the launch of BUFFY reruns on F/X -- my viewings of BUFFY seasons 1-3 were intermittent, so catching up on BUFFY had priority. Consequently FARSCAPE, like 24, got shoved to the wayside so I could do a few other things -- like wash dishes, do the laundry, and sleep. Since I see FARSCAPE DVDs, maybe I can get to them via Netflix this summer... TV party tonight, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:31:48 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Toren Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Alias i don't think i've seen mention of WB's Gilmour Girls yet_ an excellent show, often leaving me near tears_ yes, it's often silly and a little full of itself, still it's the *only* show i watch (no tv at home), and everyone else should watch it, too no shit tuesday night at 8pm Robert from West Virginia but now California which is a very common phenomena ===== blah blah blah Mr. Sensitive Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:55:32 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Alias Miles Goosens on 2/4/2002 1:32:22 PM wrote: > Speaking of ED, it's seemed a little flat this year. Did you catch the last episode? It looks like now they are heading into Dark Ed terrority. It was like they suddenly hired a new writing staff and decided to jettison all previous character development and start over. > Since I see FARSCAPE DVDs, maybe I can get to them via > Netflix this summer... At the rate ADV is releasing the Farscape DVDs, it would still take you a long time to catch up. They release only two episodes per disc, usually every other month or so. They are not even done with the first season yet. The discs are very nice - stunning video quality for a TV show and great 5.1 sound. The first three discs have amusing audio commentaries with the cast and crew, and all the discs have interview segments (Gigi Edgley looks vastly different without the Chianna makeup; too bad they haven't showed Virginia Hey without the Zhan makeup). I just wish they would release them in a more timely/economical way, like the box sets in the UK. Geekily yours, Later. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:10:41 -0800 From: "ana luisa morales" Subject: [loud-fans] tv prison.... i don't watch most of the shows you all seem to discuss, but i think it's interesting to read.... unfortunately, my favorite show is on at 1:30 a.m., and there are only eight episodes, and i have no idea whether there will be a second season or not. for those who have no idea abt what i'm babblin', that wd be robert smigel's _tv funhouse_. now *that's* television! ;) - --ana pal *"no symmetry"**albany california u.s.a.* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:22:35 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Alias Roger on Farscape and DVDs: >At the rate ADV is releasing the Farscape DVDs, it would >still take you a long time to catch up. ... I just wish >they would release them in a more timely/economical way, >like the box sets in the UK. I would buy Farscape if they boxed up whole seasons at a time. We specifically bought a DVD player for the Buffy season one set, and have discovered we enjoy series sets much better than movies - we own one or two (...checking... two) non-Monty Python movies, but have whole seasons of Buffy, Twin Peaks, Stargate SG-1 (the Doctor Who of the 90s and Naughties, but with an actual production budget), Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Absolutely Fabulous, and the afore-mentioned Sandbaggers. The two movies are The Usual Suspects and The Princess Bride. Russ, who has probably used up his monthly quota of posts today. "If I want an agent to go to the lavatory I need the permission of the Foreign Office. If I want him to do anything when he gets there I need a signed directive from the Prime Minister." ...from The Sandbaggers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:41:33 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] ms jovans landoscam On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, John Cooper wrote: > If this is the Nigerian e-mail scam, the definitive article is at: > goldang. i remember reading about the guy who ran the ad that said "send your dollars to!" w/o implying he would provide any good or service. if memory serves, he was nabbed for mail fraud anyway. about two weeks ago there was message that made it's way around some spots of usenet i sometimes look in on to the effect of "donate $1 to my paypal account for no reason at all," and i wondered if that was free and clear of any potential legal hassles. i wonder how the person(s) did. i wonder if i could pay rent in april that way. (i got a month ahead on rent a long time ago, when i had income.) thanks to all for the pointers... - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:35:31 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] TWotEF.... At 12:48 AM 2/2/2002 -0700, Stewart Mason wrote: >But I don't think writing in the style of Richman or Barthelme (or Laurie >Colwin or...I'm trying to think of some other songwriter who deals in >quotidian life so thoroughly...RSM, maybe?) is necessarily aiming lower >than writing in the style of Faulkner or Joyce or Springsteen. Maybe "aiming lower" was the wrong choice of words, though it flowed nicely at the time. I think aiming *smaller* is just as worthy, and can produce transcendent meaning on a par with those who successfully trade in The Big Themes. I just don't think that Hemingway automatically ranks lower than Barthelme because Hemingway is hunting Big Themes, or that "Roadrunner" automatically beats "Jungleland." (Again, I concur about Barthelme over Hemingway. Richman vs. Springsteen, though... I want *both.* Now I have to put "Roadrunner" and "Open All Night" back-to-back on a swap tape. That should do the trick.) I had to look up "quotidian" -- I thought maybe it had to do with a Joan Didion quote-o-matic bot. R. Stevie is a special case -- isn't he in almost every respect? -- but few if any people have put their entire lives into their music to the extent that RSM has. Everything he hears or does makes it into a song or performance; the real wonder is that such a high percentage of his stuff is absolutely terrific. >If >anything, I think you could make the argument that it's harder to write >something interesting and insightful about small slices of everyday life >than to write about the Big Themes. To return to JeFF's analogy, it's >probably easier to write something interesting and profound about the >Vision Quest than the trip down to Target to pick up some toilet paper and >a new mop. It's difficult to write well about *anything.* Maybe we see fewer examples of the "trip down to Target" because AOR types see the Big Themes are seen as fitter subject matter (i.e., more easy for more people to latch onto) for promotion, not because it's inherently easier. And what if your Vision Quest *is* to take a trip down to Target to pick up some toilet paper and a mop? Some days I couldn't ask for anything more, unless it would be to throw in one of those 10-packs of blank Sony V's. on a quest for Diet Pepsi and BBQ, Miles ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #54 ******************************