From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #44 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, January 30 2002 Volume 02 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes towardasyntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [] RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [] RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes towardasyntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [] RE: [loud-fans] prog-out in progress ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears ["Dennis McGreevy" ] RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [Jeff] Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [Jeffre] Re: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? [Dan Sallitt ] RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego [] Re: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? [John F Butland ] RE: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? [John F Butland ] RE: [loud-fans] Joy Div consumer information wanted ["glenn mcdonald" ] [loud-fans] tape swap [mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber)] Re: [loud-fans] tape swap [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Sam on a Friday Morning (world peace through swap reviews) [S] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:27:30 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes towardasyntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego At 02:24 PM 1/29/02 -0700, Roger Winston wrote: >Here is my own interpretation of the lyrics to MacArthur's Park. I admit it is colored by my own unique experiences. Dude, you forgot all the lyrics about how all southerners are inbred dimwits. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:59:14 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego RICKY PATTERSON: Cass Elliot eventually bowed out of producing us because she really didn't know what she was doing in the studio. Steve Berry ended up doing the album. It was still a thrilling time. Dunhill used to get free tickets for their artists to go to concerts, movies, and events so they could be seen. We saw the premier of Camelot at the Cinerama on Santa Monica Boulevard. Dunhill sent a limo to pick us up. When we got there, there was a crowd, spotlights, the whole deal. When our limo pulled up and we stepped out, people looked at us, like, Who the fuck are they? We didn't care, we were stoned and having fun. After the movie we went to a deli to eat. Everybody was talking about Richard Harris; they'd all fallen in love with him. A week or so later, we got a call from Steve. We had four more tracks to do on our album. He said that they'd just signed a songwriter who had some new songs and he wanted us to go over to the Dunhill studio and hear him play some of them. So we did. A guy wearing a leather jacket came in and sat down at the piano. It was Jimmy Webb. One of the first songs he played was a number called "MacArthur Park". It bowled everyone over. Steve said, "How would you guys feel about doing that one?" and we told him that it was a wonderful song but that it would use up half the album. Besides, we had great songs by Bruce Cockburn and David Wiffen written already. We left it. Steve said, "Okay then. I'm gonna get Richard Harris to sing it." We looked at each other and rolled our eyes. ...from Dave Bidini's book "On A Cold Road: Tales of Adventure in Canadian Rock" Although it doesn't explicitly say, the band in question is 3's a Crowd, and the album would be Christopher's Movie Matinee, 1968. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:23:28 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes towardasyntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego Roger Winston: >Here is my own interpretation of the lyrics to MacArthur's Park. I admit it is colored by >my own unique experiences. YMMV. Stop it. Stop it. I am not supposed to be laughing when reading Loud-fans. I am supposed to be sniffing in indignation. Aw, screw it. That was a riot. Well done, sir. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:34:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] prog-out in progress On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: > I guess it wasn't really their raison d'etre to write a decent song - > surely the whole prog thing was to *not* write songs, to escape the > shackles of the 3 minute pop song and to expand horizons blah blah blah. > Tarkus pretty much takes this to the extreme being over 20 minutes long > and is a reasonably successful musical evocation of a concept (aaargh) > about a creature that's a cross between an armadillo and a tank - don't > you think? :-) I've always found ELP insufferably wanky. Jeff's comparison to "The Gates of Delirium" seems apt - a group executing complicated music together, vs. each one, in Rick Wakeman's words, "having a blow". > Interestingly this was the first Genesis album (on Charisma at least) > where the lyrics weren't provided with the album (at least my copy > didn't have it). I'll have to listen to it again but the main line I > remember is the "knights of the green shield stamp and shout". The US version had an insert w/ lyrics. "Selling England" is supposedly an amalgam of the Labour Party's platform of the time, including their slogan, "Selling England By The Pound". Agreed, "Epping Forest" is pretty bad, but the other 3 long songs are pretty good. It lies with me, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:39:52 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? Aaron Milenski wrote: > I think SWEET BABY JAMES has aged really well--still one of the best > singer/songwriter albums I know, and I know a lot of them. Last month while trying to assemble a George Harrison tribute mix (with cover versions of his Beatles & solo songs, of which there are precious few, actually!), I found a great live version of "If I Needed Someone" by James Taylor at www.jamestaylorweb.com. Unfortunately it isn't there anymore, but probably elsewhere on the web. I've always found strong similarities between the Beatles' "Something" (written by GH), and Taylor's "Something In The Way She Moves", which came out a few months earlier on Apple. Probably just me though.. - -Steve (From the "Deep Space Homer" episode of the Simpsons..) BUZZ ALDRIN: With all due respect, Mr. Taylor, this isn't the best time for your unique brand of bittersweet folk rock. We have a potentially critical situation here. I'm sure you'll understand. JAMES TAYLOR: Listen, Aldrin, I'm not as laid back as people think. Now Here's the deal: I'm going to play, and you're going to float there and like it! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:42:49 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes towardasyntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego It's true; my cousins are pretty hot. I also just realized that I have no idea what "MacArthur Park" is, who it's by, etc., I don't read record reviews, have never heard "69 Love Songs," and my Ph.D. is self-assigned, which means that some will probably not give me all the rights, honors, and privileges thereunto appertaining. Please take me off the list before I hurt myself. DR. Murt |Dude, you forgot all the lyrics about how all southerners are |inbred dimwits. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:45:35 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears I am on the Committee to Immortalize John Denver In The Annals Of Pop Music, so just send me three stamps if you'd like a welcome kit. I think it's true that some artists could gain merit once they are divorced from their cultural climate. Speaking of the Carpenters, I love Sonic Youth's take on "Superstar" - a very lovely rendition. Chris Murtland, R.N. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:48:32 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego At 03:59 PM 1/29/02 -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >One of the first songs he played was >a number called "MacArthur Park". It bowled everyone over. Steve said, >"How would you guys feel about doing that one?" and we told him that it was >a wonderful song but that it would use up half the album. Besides, we had >great songs by Bruce Cockburn and David Wiffen written already. We left it. >Steve said, "Okay then. I'm gonna get Richard Harris to sing it." We >looked at each other and rolled our eyes. Another story is that "MacArthur Park" was first offered to the Association in early 1967 as the climax of a side-long suite, whereupon the band told their producer "Any two guys in this band could write better songs than that." Naturally, Association fans now tend to mark the point where the band started writing most of their own material as the beginning of the end. Anyone who's heard the immortal "Broccoli" ("I like to eat it with my mouth"...as opposed to *what*, grinding it into a paste and shoving it up your butt with an enema bag?) knows what they mean. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:01:42 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: [loud-fans] Joy Div consumer information wanted I'm thinking about getting the Joy Division box set (I only own Substance, for some reason) but have learned that box sets are a dicey proposition. So, two questions: 1. How are the physical production values? I don't expect gold leaf, but I'd be disappointed to find something like the Pere Ubu box, where the original cover art only appeared as B&W images, inside the case, less than 2" square. 2. How do they treat running order? Are the discs sequenced as existing-releases-with-bonus-tracks, or some other way? a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:15:10 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Joy Div consumer information wanted At 06:01 PM 1/29/02 -0500, Aaron Mandel wrote: >1. How are the physical production values? I don't expect gold leaf, but >I'd be disappointed to find something like the Pere Ubu box, where the >original cover art only appeared as B&W images, inside the case, less than >2" square. I've only seen it in the stores, but I've leafed through it and it's a really nice package, with plenty of interesting text and good images. Actually one of the better art-design jobs I've seen on a box set. >2. How do they treat running order? Are the discs sequenced as >existing-releases-with-bonus-tracks, or some other way? I'm less sure on this point, but I *think* that UNKNOWN PLEASURES and CLOSER are both presented in sequence, but the songs that were gathered together rather willy-nilly on STILL are now in chronological order according to recording dates. Plus there's all the singles, tons of live stuff, radio sessions, alternate takes...if it's not in fact everything the band ever recorded, then it's damn close. Only caveat I'd have (and the reason I've never bought the thing) is that it's wicked expensive -- I've never seen it under a hundred bucks, which seems outrageous for a four-disc box. Now that I think of it, though, I think those were the UK imports, and I think there's a US edition now that's probably more reasonable. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:17:06 -0600 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears > I think it's true that some artists could gain merit once they are > divorced from their cultural climate. I am a firm believer that John Denver, Thomas Dolby, and the Brothers Gibb are all wonderful songwriters. Sit back and objectively listen to the BeeGees "Nights on Broadway", and you'll hear a masterful display of tension building - that ascending line building to the resolution of the chorus is simply amazing. The first step to overcoming your problems is admitting you have them... (name withheld) Np: (nothing. Why do you ask?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:33:05 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears Chris Prew sez: Sit back and objectively listen to the BeeGees "Nights on Broadway", and you'll hear a masterful display of tension building - that ascending line building to the resolution of the chorus is simply amazing. <><><><><><><><><><><> Shoot, that one's worth it for that envelope filtered bass synth alone. - --Dennis, only semi-aware that the BeeGee's wrote their own material ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:27:40 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Murtland wrote: > Speaking of the Carpenters, I love Sonic Youth's take on "Superstar" - a > very lovely rendition. Yes - it excellently brings out the song's inherent creepiness, yet pathos. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, creepy...yet pathetic J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::To be the center of the universe, don't orbit things:: __Scott Miller__ np: Steve Holtebeck's CD-R of Cyril Jordan's George Harrison tribute - thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:40:02 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] prog-out in progress On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: > Jeff writes of ELP: > > > However, what I'd forgotten is that when they put their minds > > to it, they could actually write a decent song - sometimes > > even quite a pretty one. The high-water mark is probably > > "Trilogy": a lovely melody that, for once, is actually > > *developed* in the subsequent sections (rather than having > > the track be extended by blatantly obvious cut-n-paste > > methods - amazing how blunt and clumsy some of those edits > > are...). "The Endless Enigma" isn't half-bad either. > > I guess it wasn't really their raison d'etre to write a decent song - > surely the whole prog thing was to *not* write songs, to escape the > shackles of the 3 minute pop song and to expand horizons blah blah blah. Well, yes - but they at least pretended to frame them as individual compositions (which is the word I should have used, I guess). I mean, at least when King Crimson had one of those tracks named after a place, you *knew* it was a live improvisation - and could judge it accordingly. > Tarkus pretty much takes this to the extreme being over 20 minutes long > and is a reasonably successful musical evocation of a concept (aaargh) > about a creature that's a cross between an armadillo and a tank - don't > you think? :-) But it's pretty blatantly three or four short tracks on similar themes separated by a couple of utterly unrelated Greg Lake songs ("Time and a Place"; "Battlefield"). > > (Except when they did...and produced awful dreck like > > "Are You Ready Eddy?" Filler, thy name is short ELP tracks...) > > Agreed, totally dire - Jeremy Bender anyone? I have no idea why - but, uh, I kinda like that one. I like the odd sort of walking fifths harmony...Copland's another big ELP influence. > didn't have it). I'll have to listen to it again but the main line I > remember is the "knights of the green shield stamp and shout" which is a > dreadful pun on green shield stamps which were given away in the 60s and That album is chockfull of simply awful puns - it seems that's sort of how Gabriel was writing at the time. (Of course, similar procedures motivated a lot of early Elvis Costello...) In general, btw, Joe's right: ELP is primarily a load of wank. But I'm just correcting my earlier statement and noting that they probably had one good LP's worth of work amongst their however-many albums... - --Jeff, to make you feel much better than you should know... J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:38:05 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Year's best article top 10 lists of prominent critics and you'll find gems by folks like the Tyde, Roger Wallace, the Eyeliners, Rockfour and Four Tet >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was meaning to mention that Four Tet's new album is kind of good, but I can't imagine putting it in a top 10 of the year. If you know who they are, then it's recommended. If you don't know who they are, it's not worth finding out. - --dana np: Currituck County promo CD, which I am hereby promoting. Guitar player from Aden, fingerpicked acoustic guitar, banjo, bass, drums, occasional vibes. Male vocals with no reverb. Lyrics are functional but not special. RIYL Smog, Silver Jews, Royal City. Instrumentally better than those three, lyrically inferior. Worthy of coverage in Spin/Rolling Stone: No. Worthy of coverage in [fill in name of your favorite indie zine]: yes. Special features: one track has a recording of a guitar that sounds *exactly* like it's in the room w/you -- creepy. Comes out next month on Teenbeat. Will you remember the band's name in one month: no, write it down if you think you'll be interested. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:45:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Keegstra, Russell wrote: > "How would you guys feel about doing that one?" and we told him that it was > a wonderful song but that it would use up half the album. Besides, we had > great songs by Bruce Cockburn and David Wiffen written already. We left it. Not *the* David Wiffen? The *immortal* David Wiffen, of David Wiffen fame? Wow. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:42:48 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears > I think it's true that some artists could gain merit once they are > divorced from their cultural climate. I am a firm believer that John Denver, Thomas Dolby, and the Brothers Gibb are all wonderful songwriters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize if I'm missing something here (I do have a fever/flu today) but we have all heard Bee Gee's First and Odessa, right? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:47:34 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntactical deconstruction of inflated authorial ego On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Dennis McGreevy wrote: > > Left at the altar? That's not what I get at all. My read is that he's looking > at the park, and done a few too many of his favorite recreational psychedelics, > and his view of the landscape is literally melting as he sees it, and he leaps > from there to the cake image because that's what he then thinks he's looking at. > Remember that the cake is *green*. Does the one preclude the other? Being hopelessly self absorbed and prone to > drama, he invests it with an emotional charge which casts him as a tragic > figure. Being high as a kite, he imagines an eternity of this ennobling pain, > which, sadly, he must, alas, endure. But all the drama is hollow to the core; > it's not only about something that doesn't matter, it's about something that > doesn't even exist as it's being perceived. Pretty much what I said. I think. > I think the Wichita Lineman is tapping my phone, He just sacked my quarterback. Damn. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, suddenly thinking of Ray Nitschke in _Head_ J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::the sea is the night asleep in the daytime:: __Robert Desnos__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:55:12 -0500 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? > And "Steamroller" ain't got nothing on Jackyl's "I'm a Lumberjack" as far as > awful, completely missing the point white guy blues goes. For what it's worth (and perhaps you are already commenting on this, I'm not sure). "Steamroller" was intended as a humorous song about white guys singing the blues. Apparently Elvis covered the song and did it straight; when an interviewer asked JT whether Elvis had missed the joke, he said something like, "Yeah, he did, but he's the King - he can do whatever he wants." - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:05:39 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears >> Speaking of the Carpenters, I love Sonic Youth's take on "Superstar" - a >> very lovely rendition. > >Yes - it excellently brings out the song's inherent creepiness, yet >pathos. Hard to imagine that Richard brought the song to Karen after hearing Bette Midler perform it on Johnny Carson... And no, sorry, no BEE GEES FIRST or ODESSA in memory banks (my fault, I know), Andy REDMOND, WAMicrosoft head Bill Gates, already considered by many to be among the most powerful men in the world, further increased his powers Monday, augmenting several of his key statistics to near-immortal levels. Above: Microsoft CEO Bill Gates, one of the most powerful businessmen on the Prime Material Plane, recently granted himself powers normally available only to deities and demigods. Among the most striking increases were a +2 raise in dexterity to 18, and an overwhelming charisma increase to an above-human score of 20, placing Gates in the realm of deities and demigods. "I am pleased to announce that I have boosted my already impressive statistics," Gates said in a statement to shareholders Monday. "As we develop the technological framework that will dominate the 21st century, these augmentationsand others to followwill be powerful wards against competition from the likes of Netscape, Oracle and Melkor who is named Morgoth." "Microsoft is the software-industry leader today, and tomorrow it will also dominate the realm of information access, as well as the content being accessed," Gates said. "The continued growth of our Corbis Media archive, the successful development and launch of MSNBC, and my mastery of the shield spells of the Elven King Lagolin are only the beginning for Microsoft." Gates, who raised his intelligence to 20 in 1990, is fast becoming the most powerful CEO in American media. Experts place him above Fox's Rupert Murdoch and Disney's Michael Eisner, both of whom hold over 1.2 million hit points. Gates is also rumored to be in possession of a bag of holding containing one terabyte of information, as well as over 100 billion gold and silver pieces. Analysts see Monday's statistical boost as extremely beneficial to Gates in an increasingly competitive marketplace. "This is a very shrewd move on Gates' part," PC Magazine columnist John C. Dvorak said. "His vastly increased charismathe prime stat of a chaotic evil executivewill help him tremendously in his ongoing struggle to convince skeptical Microsoft stockholders that his ventures into television and his massive content-buying spree will pay off in the long run. The extra CHR will also assist him greatly in dealing with wary CEOs of companies he wishes to invest in and cast spells over, like Comcast." - --from http://www.theonion.com/onion3121/billgates.html (courtesy Tom Potter) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:03:34 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Halstead and Merritt, or, Notes toward a syntacti cal deconstruction of inflated authorial ego At 05:45 PM 1/29/02 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Keegstra, Russell wrote: > >> "How would you guys feel about doing that one?" and we told him that it was >> a wonderful song but that it would use up half the album. Besides, we had >> great songs by Bruce Cockburn and David Wiffen written already. We left it. > >Not *the* David Wiffen? The *immortal* David Wiffen, of David Wiffen fame? > >Wow. You behave. Bruce Cockburn and David Wiffen were the primary songwriters in this group, and the album under discussion, CHRISTOPHER'S MOVIE MATINEE, is actually a pretty groovy little artifact if you're into that strain of folk-rock that eventually mutated into what's now called sunshine pop. Heavy Mamas and the Papas influence (I think Cass Elliot was involved in the album somehow, though probably in a limited "you can use my name" sort of way), but they're overall closer to Spanky and Our Gang, with a jazzy feel to some of the harmonies and that same kind of goofy sense of humor. Not really recommended if you're not already a fan of the style, but certainly worth seeking out if you are. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:22:32 -0400 From: John F Butland Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? At 10:51 AM 02-01-29 -0800, ana luisa morales wrote: >At 12:26 PM 1/29/2002 -0500, Dan Sallitt wrote: > >>I've always wondered: why do people hate James Taylor so >much? > >yes, when people instead >shd be reserving their hatred for >steve miller.... > >even miles davis cdn't stand him. > And Miles was kinda like Will Rogers when it came to liking folks, wasn't he? ;^) best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:22:35 -0400 From: John F Butland Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Why do people hate James Taylor so much? At 09:11 AM 02-01-29 -1000, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: >Dan Sallitt asks: > >>I've always wondered: why do people hate James Taylor so much? > >Ergo, I don't hate James for James, I hate James because every minute of air >time he had was a minute of air time that didn't go to some then-new music. >I have the same feeling whenever I hear "House on Pooh Corner" by Loggins >and Messina. GAH! I want to throw up, and I don't even particularly >dislike the song. As Sloan said, "it's not the band I hate, it's their fans"? best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:59:44 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Joy Div consumer information wanted The box set is very nicely done, with a thick booklet containing a long essay by Paul Morley (that may or may not be to your tastes, as always), lyrics to all songs, and a very detailed discography. The discs are set up as a single continuous retrospective, not individual releases with bonus tracks, but disc 1 is basically _Unknown Pleasures_ and _Still_, disc 2 is _Closer_ and the bulk of the other b-sides, disc 3 is mostly radio sessions and unreleased tracks, and disc 4 is all live. I've only been through the whole thing three or four times, but I've really enjoyed it. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:33:54 -0500 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it's miller time! At 02:21 PM 01/29/2002 -0500, dmw wrote: >On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, ana luisa morales wrote: > >> yes, when people instead >> shd be reserving their hatred for >> steve miller.... > >mostly pretty dreadful, but i think some sort of exemption needs to be >granted for the mid70s records, esp. "jungle love," and, yeah, "jet >airliner," (which was not written by miller, though it sure sounds like it >could've been. Agreed, Doug. Incidentally, I remember wasting a fair bit of time thinking the soon-to-be-final lineup of the Loud Family could've done very good things with "Jungle Love". As for James Taylor, I finally saw "Two-Lane Blacktop" fairly recently - ended up spending most of a rainy autumn weekend watching it 2 or 3 times through, and a few scenes more frequently. It's terribly rare for me to spend that much time in one stretch with a movie (or to have that much time in one stretch to spend on anything at all), but I found the thing damn fascinating. If I'd felt ill will towards JT, which I didn't, I'd've backwards-retrospectively forgiven him all after seeing that movie. janet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:21:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Prew wrote: > I am a firm believer that John Denver, Thomas Dolby, and the Brothers Gibb > are all wonderful songwriters. I'll give you the last two - THE FLAT EARTH is one of my favorite albums of all time. > Sit back and objectively listen to the BeeGees "Nights on Broadway", and > you'll hear a masterful display of tension building - that ascending line > building to the resolution of the chorus is simply amazing. While I think they slipped a bit in the early '70s, the Bee Gees' mid-'60s and Arif Mardin-inspired '70s work is terrific. Hummable and, in the latter case, danceable. John Denver...erm, not for me. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:36:28 -0800 (PST) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears At 8:21 PM 1/29/2, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: >On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Prew wrote: >> I am a firm believer that John Denver, Thomas Dolby, and the Brothers Gibb >> are all wonderful songwriters. > >I'll give you the last two - THE FLAT EARTH is one of my favorite albums >of all time. Marred only by "Hyperactive," a resounding indication that Thomas Dolby did not indeed have the funk. >> Sit back and objectively listen to the BeeGees "Nights on Broadway", and >> you'll hear a masterful display of tension building - that ascending line >> building to the resolution of the chorus is simply amazing. > >While I think they slipped a bit in the early '70s, the Bee Gees' mid-'60s >and Arif Mardin-inspired '70s work is terrific. Hummable and, in the >latter case, danceable. With you on the mid-60s stuff, but SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER never done a thing for me. >John Denver...erm, not for me. My mother loves John Denver, which means that I got to hear much more of his music growing up than I ever asked to. And let's not even talk about his TV variety specials or OH, GOD!... Matt The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. Each is the proper guardian of his own health, whether bodily, or mental and spiritual. John Stuart Mill, _On Liberty_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:37:57 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it's miller time! On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Janet Ingraham Dwyer wrote: > >mostly pretty dreadful, but i think some sort of exemption needs to be > >granted for the mid70s records, esp. "jungle love," and, yeah, "jet > >airliner," (which was not written by miller, though it sure sounds like it > >could've been. > > Agreed, Doug. Incidentally, I remember wasting a fair bit of time thinking > the soon-to-be-final lineup of the Loud Family could've done very good > things with "Jungle Love". I haven't heard it...but I've read several outright raves about Steve Miller's earliest, psychedelicized work. As to James Taylor: I think others have analyzed this better than I could, but I agree he's one of those damned more for his influence or epitomic status than his actual work. That is, you couldn't swing a dead mosquito in the '70s without bumping into a "sensitive" singer-songwriter, most of whome were every bit as bad as their reputations suggest (Dan Fogelberg, stand up - good: now the artillery has a better view. And could somebody move that tuba next to him? I don't want his blood running through my instrument). Cat Stevens is another one tarred w/the lame-ass brush (and then later w/the what-the-hey-let's-kill-Salman-Rushdie brush) who doesn't deserve it at all. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I can bellow like a clown school drill instructor:: __Brian Block__ np: _Multiplex_ - West Anthony's swap CD - very cool...thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:46:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Jerkin' the tears On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Matthew Weber wrote: > At 8:21 PM 1/29/2, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > >I'll give you the last two - THE FLAT EARTH is one of my favorite albums > >of all time. > > Marred only by "Hyperactive," a resounding indication that Thomas Dolby did > not indeed have the funk. I second that emotion. And I see it's time for my annual "why don't they reissue _The Golden Age of Wireless_ with the tracks from both original and post-'Blinded Me with Science' versions, appending also that single's eponymous EP w/the full-length versions of 'One of Our Submarines,' 'Windpower,' 'Airwaves,' and especially 'Flying North' with that cool middle part - and put the single version of 'Radio Silence' with Lene Lovich's vocals on there too" rant. John Denver? Made a good Muppet, but a poor pilot. Oh yeah: this weekend I put together the next noise swap. Anyone not in wanna be in, or anyone in wanna not be in? Let me know offlist - pref. before Saturday. (Include format capabilities: CD-burner? cassette? no cassette? Edison cylinder?) - --Jeff, cakes on the griddle J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I've been praying a lot lately - it's because I no longer have a TV:: __Mark Eitzel__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:56:29 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] it's miller time! On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > I haven't heard it...but I've read several outright raves about Steve > Miller's earliest, psychedelicized work. i bought a copy in college for a buck and felt ripped off. seemed very going-through-the-motions. a'course, i were but a callow youth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: [loud-fans] tape swap Jeff's reminder about the tape swap reminds me: I may owe one or more of y'all swap tapes from swaps past. Please speak up if that's the case. And yes, Andy Hamlin, I know you want a review... Matt The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. Each is the proper guardian of his own health, whether bodily, or mental and spiritual. John Stuart Mill, _On Liberty_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:13:32 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] tape swap On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Matthew Weber wrote: > Jeff's reminder about the tape swap reminds me: I may owe one or more of > y'all swap tapes from swaps past. Please speak up if that's the case. > And yes, Andy Hamlin, I know you want a review... I believe that if all the swaps *not* reviewed since the inception of the swap suddenly appeared at once, they may well have the power to reverse the earth's magnetic polarity. Only 10% of those reviews would be sufficient to bring about world peace. Alas, by several orders of magnitude, all those reviews would *not* be enough to let the Cubs win the World Series. - --Jeff, practicing yogurt flying J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing.... ::As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. __Neal Stephenson, SNOW CRASH__ ps: would the Secret Service consider sending a package of pretzels to the White House to be a threat? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:36:14 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] Sam on a Friday Morning (world peace through swap reviews) Helping to reverse the earth's polarity, and maybe even cause world peace, here's a swap review. Since a couple of John Bartlett's discs have been reviewed on-list recently, I thought I'd review the disc that he sent me in October, which has been ruling my world for the past few months. It's called "Sam on a Friday Morning", and features a cover drawn by John's daughter Natalie (age 5).. Who's Sam? On to the songs! 1. Jonay Moyo & Devera Ngwena - "Ndatambura Nawe" I'm transcribing this from handwritten notes, so I hope I've got the names right. Jonay and Devera are from Africa. 2. Apples in Stereo - "The Bird You Cannot See" Apples. Know them.. Love them.. This is from the most recent album. 3. The Sound - "Heyday" Erstwhile loud-fan Jeff Latzko was really into the Adrian Borland and the Sound. No relation to the Church, AFAIK, but this song has the same strident mid-80s U2/Big Country/Simple Minds sound. 4. Joe Ongie - "Whatever Baby Wants" This is nice. According to his website (joeongie.com), Joe plays bass with Aimee Mann, and reminds me a lot of Aimee's longtime collaborator Jon Brion, who's name has the same number of letters. 5. The Hummingbirds - "Word Gets Around" Another winner. This isn't on the Hummingbirds album I have (VA VA VOOM), so it must be on the earler one. Reminds me of the Someloves. 6. Garfield's Birthday - "Ambulance" 7. The Farmers Boys - "Probably The Best Investment I Ever Made" Two more winners.. I'm writing this without listening, and don't remember these songs.. They're both kind of dissonant, syncopated, indie-pop 8. Spoiler - "This Love is Going Somewhere" I remember this song though. Great old-school power pop, like Marshall Crenshaw or Nick Lowe. I'm remembering the name Spoiler. 9. Red Guitars - "Marimba Jive" Not knowing anything about this band or song, I correctly guessed it as being from 1985. A Real Big Express-era XTC vibe here. 10. The Montgomery Cliffs - "Wednesday Girl" I once did a mix about days of the week, and was astonished to discover the lack of songs about mid-week days. This is my new Wednesday song, so now I just need a Thursday song. 11. Half Man Half Biscuit - "The Bastard Son of Dean Friedman" As a pre-swap question, John asked me who Dean Friedman was, and I said I didn't know so he said I wouldn't get the joke in this song. According to the bio his website, Dean Friedman is "one of the preeminent songwriters and recording artists of today", which helped me get the joke a little! 12. Chewy Marble - "Bowl of Surreal" I sold back my Chewy Marble disc a few months back because it wasn't giving me the recommended allowance of enjoyment after four years of sitting in my collection, but individual songs still sound great on mixes. 13. XTC - "Stupidly Happy" This song reminds me of one of my ex-neighbors who used to annoy myself and everyone else in our apartment complex by playing the Metallica "Enter Sandman" guitar riff over and over at all hours of the night. If only I had "Stupidly Happy" to sing over his playing back then! 14. Squeeze - "Picadilly" My thumbs always point upward for Squeeze on mixes. 15. The Solopsistics - "Honey Complain" If it's possible to be a target demographic for two different record labels, I'm the target for both 125 and Frigidisk. This song is one of my favorites too. 16. K.C. Bowman - "Blithering Heights" Another choir preaching. This song isn't from his album, so it must be from somewhere else? 17. P. Hux - "Yet To Say" Great tune. I still haven't picked up Purgatory Falls because it isn't available at stores, and this song mentions Jon Brion, who's album I also haven't picked up yet. 18. The Skids - "Charade" Are these the Skids that became Big Country? This song rocks hard. 19. Francine - "Jet To Norway" Ocasek-like vocals punctuated by moog-like synths. More like "Cars to Norway", know what I mean. not that that's a bad thing! 20. The Orgone Box - "Judy Over The Rainbow" This inclusion was the final push driving me toward picking up the Orgone Box cd in London last November, and I haven't looked back since then. 21. The Lightning Seeds - "Sense" I'd nearly forgotten about the Lightning Seeds. 22. The Flashing Lights - "High School" This song on another loud-swap tape I received just last weekend, curiously enough. Not the MC5 song, but it rocks enough that it could be! 23. The Undertones - "Teenage Kicks" One great rock tune.. Always welcome. I love the Undertones! 24. XTC - "History of Rock and Roll" This has ended a lot of my mix tapes as well. Great mix, John! thank you and goodnight, Steve ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #44 ******************************