From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #18 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, January 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 018 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] Only The Cute Will Survive ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Benne] RE: [loud-fans] ay carumba! ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" ] Re: [loud-fans] observation [Miles Goosens ] RE: [loud-fans] getting my $.02 into the community chest ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] community ["Andrew Hamlin" ] RE: [loud-fans] community ["Keegstra, Russell" ] RE: [loud-fans] getting off on the community chest (ns) ["Larry Tucker" <] Re: [loud-fans] community [Roger Winston ] RE: [loud-fans] community ["John Swartzentruber" ] RE: [loud-fans] community [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] RE: [loud-fans] community ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] community [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] observation ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest [greg barber ] RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest ["Dennis McGreevy" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Only The Cute Will Survive The artist formerly known as Photo Robert writes: > BSC-era Game Theory was the cutest Scott band... Whatever happened to Suzi Ziegler BTW? Ian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:24:48 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] ay carumba! Andy writes: > >3. The Orgone Box "Find the One" - A very Beatle-y verse, by > way of a > >somewhat Hitchcockian vocal tone, and something like a less yobbish > >Oasis feel. I'm hearing the Hollies, too. Still and all, I'm > not 100% > >persuaded...in the "good not wonderful" category. > > If at all possible, hear "Judy Over The Rainbow," which just > might be my Song Of The Year 2001--except I can't quite > verify that the album came out for the first time in 2001. > Anybody know for sure? The album came out mid 2001 on Minus Zero Records (gotta get a plug in for Bill Forsyth at MZ here in London!)- - www.minuszerorecords.com However I'm pretty sure Judy Over The Rainbow is a reworking of an old song from Rick Corcoran's previous band called (I think) Orange and most of the material is from 96. I like the album a lot, it's probably my most played album of 2001 although I still can't stomach the track There'll Always Be Attitudes. But World Revolves and Noddyland are superb. I try not to think of Oasis when I'm comparing anything but I hear Martin Newell in there somewhere although Bill assures me that Rick doesn't know Martin's work. Sniff, Ian Np Game Theory - Baltimore MD 11/3/88 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:24:48 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Carolyn then Jen: > > Listening has always been a passion for me but not that > many people I > > know share my obsession with music so I appreciate you all--for > > information and just knowing there are others who find all > this really > > exciting..... Most of my friends have other priorities. > > I can relate to this, and it's very frustrating at times. I > have one truly musically passionate friend in this town. Do > you ever encounter the attitude from some of them that it's > time you grew up and grew out of thinking this stuff is important? Oh yeah, all the time. And I'm 45 so I'm in the older demographic sector of the list. I remember my ex-boss at my previous employers, same age as me, looking horrified when he met me and ex-lister Didier Leonard in a social situation as we described how we'd been trawling for used CDs all day in London... Hmmm, maybe if I gave up this pursuit and "grew up" maybe I'd be the one earning 45 grand... Carolyn wrote: >I noticed such a change here after Scott retired-It was a lot of fun >for us fans when they were touring but I'm sure not very fun for the >band. I enjoyed meeting lots of people from the NJ NY area, and Steve >H, Joe Mallon, and Sue T. when they were out here from California few >years ago. I mean that--I haven't seen any of those people recently >but it was very nice to meet everyone. Strangely enough these (Steve, Joe and Sue) are the 3 Loud Fans that I met most recently when they were over in the UK back in November! My Loud Fan meeting batting average isn't that high seeing as how I'm some way away from most of you and separated by an ocean but I've certainly made one extremely good friend through the list and every Loud Fan I've met has been really friendly and a pleasure to meet. Sue wrote: >As I've mentioned to several people on this list, I think loud-fans >lost part of its heart the day that Janet Ingraham-Dwyer unsubscribed. >She was a civilizing influence on the list, and one of the kindest, >wisest & most generous people I've ever had the privilege to know. I've never met Janet but I used to love her posts and remember that tour diary thing she put together from list posts with great fondness - for an overseas LF it was brilliant. I also very much miss Ana - the first Loud Fan I met (by ten minutes, Phil Gerrard was the second!) and who was extremely kind and welcoming to Angela and I when we visited the States in 99. Having read all that's been said about the "decline" of the list I must just say that it's still my favourite list, the posts I read first in the morning and that if Scott decided to issue some new music it would improve enormously :-) While I'm here, I note that Stewart wrote: >Incidentally, I read in an obit of Zac Foley that he was well-known among his friends for what was termed his "party trick": he could fit a whole, unpeeled lime underneath his foreskin. Now *that's* the sort of information I want from a list :-) Flu-bound in London, Ian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:19:02 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest >Yes - but are there any men on the list who do *not* wear glasses? (Okay: >I've met at least two male Loudfans with neither beards or glasses - but >for all I know, they shaved just before I met them and stumbled about with >uncorrected vision, just to be contrary. I wear contact lenses. But I'm in the 1% of guys in this world who have never experimented with facial hair, and given all of the terrible beards, half-beards, soul patches, and so on that have sprouted ever since the heyday of grunge, I'm sure I'll live the rest of my life without succumbing to the need. I hope that doesn't make me a bad loud fan. I'm not sure what to say about the "lack of community" thread except to agree with Sue that Janet's absence has really changed the overall nature of the list, like we're missing one of the key emotional threads that keeps it together. I also regret the disapperance of Bradley and Paula. Hell, I miss Mike Breen. I also think that in the "good old days" we always had a few smartasses, but never people who deliberately started trouble here, and we were prety good at not making mountains out of molehills and knowing when to just let something drop before it escalated. Jen's post susprised me--I've made some great friends on this list, and have enjoyed every loud-fan event/meeting I've taken part in, and really wish I had the opportunity to spend more time with listfolk in person (thoguh now that I don't travel with my job anymore it's a lot more difficult.) I will say, though, since I've thought about it, I'm not as surprised as I was at initial reaction. I think a distance has been developed here. I don't think it's as simple as us not willing to open up anymore because we know our most personal feelings and experiences might end up used for fodder for someone's writing. Maybe it's just that without as much of Scott's music to keep the threads together we're floating a little bit. Or maybe it's just that without any Loud Family concerts we haven't had as many obvious reasons for groups of loud-fans to meet in person. Regardless, I have to say that I've found this list to be incredibly warm and that individual people on it have shown me great kindness and friendship. It's still the only community I really feel a part of. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:32:38 -0500 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] getting off on the community chest (ns) >Mark just wanted to make friends with people who liked the same music he >liked, and that is what I always thought lists like this were primarily >for. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like the myth of loud-fans diversity, the myth of Staples as a schmoe who just wanted to make friends needs to die a quick death. I'm sure that Hitler just wanted to make friends with people who shared his interests. Everyone in the fucking world just wants to make friends with people who share their interests. The problem with Mark Staples is that, in addition to being fat and pathetic, he's also a self-centered asshole. The conditions aren't mutually exclusive, though the more liberal elements on the list might wish they were. And while I never particularly minded his messages, I can't say that I'm sad to see him gone. I'm also pleased to see that the people who *did* mind his messages were direct enough to come out and say so, instead of going on about him behind his back, like we did in the good old days when everything was so nice. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:38:11 -0600 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest >> Yes - but are there any men on the list who do *not* wear glasses? (Okay: >> I've met at least two male Loudfans with neither beards or glasses - but >> for all I know, they shaved just before I met them and stumbled about with >> uncorrected vision, just to be contrary. > Contacts - no facial hair, unless I get lazy over a long weekend. Personally, I think this list went downhill the day a waterskiing Stewart had to jump over a pen with JRT and Mark S swimming hungrily below. I believe it was a two-part post. Or maybe it was the other way around... Chris Np: Appleseed Cast, Low Level Owl vol 1 - a late entry into my 2001 top ten. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:42:37 -0500 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] jewel viewing (ns) It may be too late (I'm not up on my daytime tv schedules) but Jewel is on The View today. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:04:19 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting off on the community chest (ns) In a message dated 1/16/02 6:37:48 AM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << The problem with Mark Staples is that, in addition to being fat and pathetic, he's also a self-centered asshole. >> ALL FAT AND PATHETIC PEOPLE OFF THIS LIST NOW! The self-centered assholes can stay, as long as they remember to be properly self-deprecating about being pop fans. Otherwise, it makes some people feel kind of uncomfortable. Does anyone want to see my extensive collection of congratulatory private e-mails from people who are afraid to contribute more because they're afraid of being shot down, ridiculed, or criticized? Sorry, the writers always plead with me to keep their opinions private. SO ALL PUSSIES OFF THIS LIST NOW, TOO! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:19:28 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] community (i read it all, but if i tried to cut & paste...yeesh.) i do think things were different. somewhere in the realm of 1995-6 i was dangerously depressed and entertaining actively suicidal thoughts. i don't think i will go into gobs of detail on a public archived list, with my real name, but i'm not kidding or exaggerating -- it was pretty bleak there for a while. and this list, and the feelings of support and community that i got from it, and from my closest friends on it, honestly was one of the things, for better or worse, that helped pull me through. and i'm glad i don't need that level of support and help from the list now, because i don't think i'd get it. one thing that i think makes a difference is not diversity so much as sheer size. if the ratio of lurkers/non lurkers is anything close to what it was five years ago, the list must be about twice the size it was back then. and i think that makes a difference -- there isn't really a physical analogue, but it's less like speaking up at a cocktail party than addressing an auditorium. or maybe like a press conference, in which there is no moderator, and everyone has a megaphone. i digress, i sorry. and another thing: a single voice really can make a world of difference in the tone of the list. snide begets snide and snark begets snark: it's a pattern i've observed many times over the umpty-ump years that i've been involved with online communities. for those seeking more community: i know, i know, irc seems so nerdy. but we've never turned anyone away from the chat, and it is a lot more personal/intimate/direct (and much more cocktail party like). i think it was in irc that most folks migrated in my head from the 'acquaintance' category to the the 'friend' category, though there are exceptions a-plenty. dept of personal sharing (musical): i was going to try to wait until the release date rolls around (it's next week i think) so as not to reinforce yr image of me as elitist scum, but some of you really need to look into the new release from callow, _up is a direction, not a location_ on red roses for me, the .com is just what'd you expect. a little too nice, maybe, but nice, in a joe pernice/elvis costello sorta way. guy has a very good voice. dept of personal sharing (tmi): sister had a baby. dad has cancer. still unemployed. fired from one of my bands (da fuck? i think they're in for an unpleasant surprise, based on the response of everyone i've told). cd *still* just about to come out (not from the band that fired me - it's going back to the mastering engineer later this week for the last three tweaks). writing a lot, more fiction than songs or journo. this is not eco friendly but i think it is really, really cool: www.cd-snake.com. they're on the walls as part of the acoustic treatment as i turn my living room into a mix control room. - -- d. np rough mixes of the king kilowatt demos - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:29:34 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] observation At 04:28 PM 1/11/2002 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Saw LOTR a few nights back, and still find myself wondering: > >why did Sauron look like Frank Zappa impersonating Rick Wakeman? I can't answer that one. But I was surprised to see our own doug mayo-wells as Elrond! That explains why I just now got a long-delayed package from doug -- a year in New Zealand, the publicity blitz, *plus* Feckless Beast and mwmw, the guy's been busy! later, Miles whose shipping tardiness is nobody's fault but his own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:28:49 -0500 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting my $.02 into the community chest First of all thanks to Ian for the comments on growing old and *still* music collecting. When new non-musically involved friends come over to the house and first see the media room and see the multiple thousands of CDs, tapes, video and vinyl, I get these looks like "are you for real, you must be one sick puppy". And there's even less understanding of why I would *still* go out to live shows in hot (sometimes cold) smoky bars at earsplitting volumes with bathrooms that can bring on nausea. Uh, well, maybe I am sick come to think of it, but that's rock'n'roll ain't it? It still makes me as happy today as some 30 years ago as a teen listening to my old records with headphones on in bed. I still relish finding out about some new band that I've never heard before. And that's the point of this list to me, discovering new music, and it's been most helpful in that regard for some 4 or 5 years now. I still discover more interesting new music from this list than any of the other half dozen I'm on. Though there are quite a few personalities that I find irritating I've always been able to look beyond that for my own selfish musical enlightenment. When I first got on this list years ago I found myself feeling, rightly or wrongly, unaccepted and that the list overall seemed rather distant and cliquish in a "high school in-group" kind of way, but I don't "need" the acceptance as Mark seemed to be seeking from what he considered his peers in musical interests. I still communicate with Mark off-list and consider him a friend, but I think Mark had a difficult time with his relationship on this list. I don't think Mark was (or is... he'll probably be back) seeking sympathy from the list or was pathetic. From my limited knowledge of psychology Mark had no "covers" and because he was so open left himself open for ridicule. I actually found him funny and different. JRT also says exactly what's on his mind, but obviously, as time has shown, he doesn't garner the list's acceptance, but in fact relishes in being the boat rocker. And though I seldom agree with JRT's comments and politics I find him endlessly entertaining. I've made several friends through this list over the years, though off-list. I don't think you make real friendships on-list anyway. The only loudfans I've actually met with the exception of ana are my NC counterparts though there are many others I have exchanged favors with and hope to meet one day. Y'all are still cool in my book. - -Larry Who does wear glasses, had my worst grades in literature and once had a goatee for about 3 months which was removed for spousal tactile complaints, though superfluous gray hair on my head was probably a bad idea anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:33:08 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] community >dept of personal sharing (tmi): >sister had a baby Yes, my sister-in-law's baby, little Victoria Marie, arrived about ten hours after my esteemed colleague's nephew! We're trying to send each other cigars, but I can't figure out a sho-nuff 'Net transfer system for same. Maybe if I stick one in that cup holder... Uncle Andy "Out of his identity being tied to what is happening in this country, Dylan manifests a profound awareness of the war and how it is affecting all of us... Dylan has felt the war, there is an awareness of it contained within the mood of the album as a whole. Dylan's songs acknowledge the war...by attempting to be real, by attempting to not speak falsely and by playing fewer games than ever before." - --Jon Landau, from his review of Bob Dylan's JOHN WESLEY HARDING in "Crawdaddy!" #15, May 1968 (courtesy Paul S. Williams) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:43:43 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] community dmw/Uncle Andy: >>dept of personal sharing (tmi): >>sister had a baby > >Yes, my sister-in-law's baby, little Victoria Marie, arrived >about ten hours after my esteemed colleague's nephew! Huh, it must be that time of year for sisters to have babies, because both of my sisters had babies in the last month. Mothers and infants are all well. Oh, and what Larry Tucker said. All of it, up to the ps about facial hair. I have a beard, simply to avoid having to shave everyday. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:43:22 -0500 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting off on the community chest (ns) |-----Original Message----- |From: JRT456@aol.com [mailto:JRT456@aol.com] |Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:04 AM |To: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting off on the community chest (ns) | | |In a message dated 1/16/02 6:37:48 AM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: | |<< The problem with Mark Staples is that, in addition to being |fat and pathetic, he's also a self-centered asshole. >> | |ALL FAT AND PATHETIC PEOPLE OFF THIS LIST NOW! The |self-centered assholes can |stay, as long as they remember to be properly self-deprecating |about being |pop fans. Otherwise, it makes some people feel kind of uncomfortable. | |Does anyone want to see my extensive collection of |congratulatory private |e-mails from people who are afraid to contribute more because |they're afraid |of being shot down, ridiculed, or criticized? Sorry, the |writers always plead |with me to keep their opinions private. SO ALL PUSSIES OFF |THIS LIST NOW, TOO! That's our JR! ;) - -LT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 9:48:32 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] community "Andrew Hamlin" on 2002/01/16 Wed AM 08:33:08 MST wrote: > dmw wrote: > >dept of personal sharing (tmi): > >sister had a baby > > Yes, my sister-in-law's baby, little Victoria Marie, arrived about ten hours > after my esteemed colleague's nephew! My sister's baby, Jillian Marie, arrived at 2:57am on Dec 22nd. Is that within the same ballpark? > We're trying to send each other > cigars, but I can't figure out a sho-nuff 'Net transfer system for same. Cigars are so 20th Century. Send IP packets instead. Later. --Rog (sharing, caring) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:51:06 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] community On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:43:43 -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >dmw/Uncle Andy: >>>dept of personal sharing (tmi): >>>sister had a baby >> >>Yes, my sister-in-law's baby, little Victoria Marie, arrived >>about ten hours after my esteemed colleague's nephew! > >Huh, it must be that time of year for sisters to have babies, >because both of my sisters had babies in the last month. Mothers >and infants are all well. > >Oh, and what Larry Tucker said. All of it, up to the ps about >facial hair. I have a beard, simply to avoid having to shave >everyday. My sister didn't have a baby in the last month, but my wife did six and a half weeks ago. Contacts. No beard, but frequent stubble to accessorize with the bags under my eyes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:12:03 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] observation On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Miles Goosens wrote: > I can't answer that one. But I was surprised to see our own doug > mayo-wells as Elrond! izzat the guy who looks like sting in the previews? i used to get the sting thing a lot. congrats all around on recent uncle- and parent-hood, eh? Andy: sorry bub, but even the thought of a virtual cigar comes close to triggering my gag reflex. lemme just toast ya with some cranberry juice or something, ok? - -- d. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:25:35 -0800 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] community >My sister didn't have a baby in the last month, but my wife did six and >a half weeks ago. Then if you want to be in the club, you'll have to get your sister to grow a beard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:35:44 -0500 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] community On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:25:35 -0800, Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: >Then if you want to be in the club, you'll have to get your sister to grow a >beard. That's the problem with this list. It's so cliquish and hard to fit in. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:40:03 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] community I missed the whole Mark thing - it's hard to imagine having the time to read every post. But I'll say that the list is enjoyable to me. I'm not an open person even in the real world, so my expectation for warm fuzzy emotional encounters on a mailing list are low. Having said that, I believe everyone in general has been polite and respectful, even when they haven't agreed with my opinions and when the topic is potentially divisive. I have also met a few loud-fans, including Larry Tucker, and I have always been glad that I did. There are plenty of others on the list whose postings I enjoy and I can't think of anyone on the list who wouldn't get a degree of preferential treatment from me as opposed to the random stranger on the street - which is to say I already consider everyone here a pleasant acquaintance at the least (or a grumpy acquaintance in the form of JRT, but grumpiness doesn't bother me). "Any fan of Scott Miller is a friend of mine." It may not be Mayberry, but that's saying something. I've never had a beard, but I have had a jazz dot for about seven years (it was more of a Tom Waits thing rather than a grunge thing and now it's just a My Face thing). I am so amazed with the fact that that hair is so old that my hand refuses to have the razor get rid of the thing. Opie Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:04:14 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] community dmw on 2002/01/16 Wed AM 09:19:28 MST wrote: > for those seeking more community: > i know, i know, irc seems so nerdy. but we've never turned anyone away > from the chat, and it is a lot more personal/intimate/direct (and much > more cocktail party like). i think it was in irc that most folks migrated > in my head from the 'acquaintance' category to the the 'friend' category, > though there are exceptions a-plenty. Aside from meeting LoudFans in person, IRC used to be the LoudFans activity that gave me the greatest sense of community. I guess the heyday of the List for me was the heyday of IRC, when we regularly had 10-20 people participating in those Sunday afternoon sessions. No offense to the fine folks who still keep up the IRC tradition these days, but for me it is always most enjoyable when there are lots of people participating. Plus, that means I don't have to "speak" as often as when there are only a few people in there. So, that's the major reason why I've been largely absent from IRC this past year or so. I realize this is a self-perpetuating problem, but I don't think it will be fixed if I suddenly start participating at the level I was. And I can always find other things to occupy my time on Sunday afternoons... Yes, doug does look somewhat like Elrond from LotR (who was played by Hugo Weaving, the bad guy from THE MATRIX). Andy, that really made me laugh. Later. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:10:23 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] observation >> I can't answer that one. But I was surprised to see our own doug >> mayo-wells as Elrond! > >izzat the guy who looks like sting in the previews? i used to get the >sting thing a lot. Just for the record, ladies and gentlemen, Doug actually looks like a shockingly-young Jeremy Irons. It's Ira Robbins who looks like Sting. >Andy: sorry bub, but even the thought of a virtual cigar comes close to >triggering my gag reflex. lemme just toast ya with some cranberry juice >or something, ok? No problemo! A compromise to suggest though--you might like a cigar of the bubblegum or chocolate variety? Chewy chewy, Andy "If you enjoy seeing pop-up ads, please do not use this service." - --from http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:28:00 -0800 (PST) From: greg barber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest - --- Carolyn Dorsey wrote: > I noticed such a change here after Scott retired- Now wait a second. Scott Miller retired? When? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:56:06 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Aaron Milenski wrote: > But I'm in the 1% of guys in this world who have never experimented with > facial hair, and given all of the terrible beards, half-beards, soul > patches, and so on that have sprouted ever since the heyday of grunge... This reminds me why I refuse to use the term for the stupid little chin-beards Aaron refers to above: there's absolutely no way to use the term "soul patch" without metaphorically patting oneself on the back. What kind of "soul" are we referring to? Not the religious concept, for sure - no, we're talking "soul" as in James Brown here. Of course, on about 10 out of every 9 guys, they look awful - doesn't help. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. ::I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! __"raus"__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:01:16 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest 9 out of 10 guys have no soul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:12:39 -0500 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest |-----Original Message----- |From: Chris Murtland [mailto:chris@studiomoxie.com] |Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:01 PM |To: 'The Scott Thunes and Toby Dammit Porn Fan Club' |Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest | | |9 out of 10 guys have no soul | She got sould, but I don't know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:38:04 -0500 From: Randy Beever Subject: [loud-fans] Fun and games Listers who enjoy creative Flash animation might want to check out: http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/ This site has some beautifully done games, many of which are suitable for children of all ages, and most of can provide quite a lovely time drain for folk who interested in a little diversion. There are additional elements to explore as well, some more interesting/engaging than others. Back to soaking up the collective musical wisdom this fine group has to offer. Or was that "sucking up?" Loudly lurking, Randy - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:38:27 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Dr. Murt sez: 9 out of 10 guys have no soul <><><><><><><><> And for that tenth, who'd like to quit, but has tried soul gum, going soul turkey, even hypnosis, all to no avail, now there's the new transdermal Soul Patch. - --Dennis, in no way affiliated with Eli Lily, manufacturers of the Soul Patch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:43:46 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Ha! Now, even if I were being emotionally terrorized by you guys, how could I leave a list like this? Every girl I know has got _some_ soul |And for that tenth, who'd like to quit, but has tried soul |gum, going soul turkey, even hypnosis, all to no avail, now |there's the new transdermal Soul Patch. | |--Dennis, in no way affiliated with Eli Lily, manufacturers of |the Soul Patch | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:55:49 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At 02:56 PM 1/16/02 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >This reminds me why I refuse to use the term for the stupid little >chin-beards Aaron refers to above: there's absolutely no way to use the >term "soul patch" without metaphorically patting oneself on the back. What >kind of "soul" are we referring to? Not the religious concept, for sure - >no, we're talking "soul" as in James Brown here. I would take "soul patch" over the other common term, "love brush," any day. >Of course, on about 10 out of every 9 guys, they look awful - doesn't >help. I liked the term "jazz dot" that someone threw out. That should be the litmus test, I think: if it looks good with a black beret and Wayfarers, you can keep it. Stewart (full beard 90-92, otherwise clean-shaven, glasses because I've lived in west Texas and eastern New Mexico most of my life and contacts are no fun in a dust storm) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Jen clarifies ([haughtily] as to what she's clarifying, well, you can just look that up for yourselves, can't you now? (that was a joke, o.k. all?)): What I meant was not airing one's dirty laundry, but just more of one's inner nature or daily interactions with the music or topics discussed here. Discussions often stay mainly on an intellectual plane here, where I hear theories expounded or argued, but not so much of the person invested in the words. A few listers have mentioned to me off-list that they don't contribute more because they are afraid of being shot down, ridiculed, or criticized. <><><><><><><><><> I'd like to comment here on a couple levels: Speaking as a relative latecomer to this list, it seemed a bit insular to me at first (not that that constituted any deterrence to li'l ol' me, Ed Herlihee - whether it *should* have, or not, is a different area for speculation), but that's what one expects from a crew of folks who've already known each other and built up a common referential base upon which to jest. I still don't know who the fuck "Randy Peppler" is, a lass and a lack. Speaking as an overintellectualizing impersonalizer (but not for all overintellectualizing impersonalizers, solely for ME), that's not a front, that's really how I am. More specifically, I'll bring this back to topic: I don't think "The Ballad of How You Can All Shut Up" would be as emotionally engaging to me if one stereo channel were not taken from the "Learn To Speak WR#Y*1T Subject: [loud-fans] NS: wireless headphones? I'm looking for some good wireless headphones for my stereo (I live in an apartment building and sometimes don't wish to annoy my neighbors). Anybody got any recommendations on what to get or avoid? Email me off-list if you want to. Thanks! _____________________________________________________ Mark D. Kunkel Legislative Attorney Legislative Reference Bureau (608) 266-0131 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:43:05 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest I was going to write something even longer, but then I got worried that what I wrote would stir up a mess of unintended trouble (for example, if I mention three or four names as avatars of good things, will those whom I didn't name infer that I think they're forces of, well, bad?), so I'm sticking to a few bullet points. OK, a big bunch of them: * I miss Janet. * This is by far the best mailing list I've ever been on. I never took the conversation here to be clubbish, cliquish, or insular at all. It was just the right mixture of knowledgeable, playful, arcane, and arch, not intimidating but inviting. Maybe it was *meant* to put me off, but I'm not that good at reading signals, so McGreevy-like, I jumped right in. Loud-Fans is still the only place on the Internet that I feel at home, even if I'm not as comfortable with the surroundings as I used to be. * I've met lots of Loud-Fans over the years, and those experiences have ranged from very fun to among the most fond memories of my life. There's little to none of the usual first-meeting awkwardness when I've met Loud-Fans; instead, we tend to commence right to chatterin' just like we do on the list. * I'd guess that Larry and Jen haven't had as many face-to-face meetings mostly because of geography; people just don't trod through West Virginia and the Southeast in the numbers that they do in the Bay Area or NYC. In the seven or eight years I've been on the list, we've only had a few (albeit wonderful) visits here in Nashville, and Music City is one of the bigger tourist destinations south of the Mason-Dixon line. * I miss Janet. * I don't think the upswing in list nastiness has anything to do with Our Scott's semi-retirement. Lord knows we seldom talked about the Loud Family even when they had a record out. In fact, my own Loud-Fans emotional timeline puts the fracturing of the list somewhere in 1999. Our June visit to New York City (was this the last extensively written-up Loud-Fan meeting?) coincided with the worst on-list controversy we'd had to that point; in September Janet and Andy adopted Benjamin which led to a natural decline in their onlist availability; other people besides the IDs who tended to keep the list civil and soulful drifted away. Even with a Loud Family album and tour in 2000, the proceedings just didn't have the spirit of fellowship and fun that surrounded the 1996 and 1998 tours. Something changed about the group then, and it's this more peevish, more fractious dynamic that's prevailed ever since. * That being said, the list is still pretty much identifiably the list, with the same group personality that it's always had, even if it has slipped a couple of shades toward the dark end of the spectrum. People tend to remember the bad things in any situation, but most of what happens on the list is still the same spirited sharing of interests and opinions that you would have found here five years ago. It's still the best thing going, and I'm still glad to be a part of it, even if my own participation hasn't returned to its 1990s level. As long as we eventually wind our way back to proper subjects like alphabetization of our music collections and "pop vs. soda," I'll stick around. * I miss Janet. * I see where Jen is coming from, but even though * just pointed toward a certain loss of civility and community, I don't know if I can agree with some of her arguments. For instance, Jen says "Discussions often stay mainly on an intellectual plane here, where I hear theories expounded or argued, but not so much of the person invested in the words." In fact, it seems to me to be the opposite -- people here have a world of emotion invested in music, film, books, and their other interests, and I see it plain as day. There's obviously some kind of disconnect here between what Jen (and like-minded lurkers?) perceive as emotion, and how that emotion is expressed by many of the more frequent posters. Jeffrey points out how the "intellectual plane" and many Loud-Fans' "inner nature" aren't always separate and distinct entities, and offers a spot-on example. He didn't spend all them years in college for nuffin'!). I'd add to what Jeff says that there's an essential sense of *play* in this mode of expression, and those who aren't used to conversing in this way could (and do!) mistake it for snobbishness or true contentiousness. It's most often just the opposite, and unless the comments are laced with personal insults, a response is usually an invitation to come out and play -- an indication that the recipient *does* belong, *is* worthy, for goodness' sake! -- rather than a rebuke or a slap in the face. Jen responded that "not all family/friends operate this way," which is true, of course, but maybe Loud-Fans isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. Jeff did the best possible job of explaining how emotion is vitally linked to the conversation here, so I hope that goes a long way toward mitigating Jen's concerns, or at least helping anyone who shares her concerns will now understand more of the true mindset here. And maybe a lurker or two or five or twenty will understand what's really going on and add some new voices to the conversation. * Then again, my perception might be clouded. First, I'm a former frequent poster and a person who most decidedly does like to yammer about my opinions and everyone else's, i.e., one of the guilty parties. Second and more tellingly, while my initial reaction was "gosh, there's been lots of overtly emotional posts about music," when I tried to think of actual examples where listmembers made explicit the essential linkages between their emotional lives and their music, some of the ones that sprang to mind were John Dylan Cooper's amazing review of a Dirty Three in-store, some of Stewart's concert reviews, and glenn's weekly TWAS columns. So what's wrong with that? All of my best examples either have 1995-97 dates, or, in glenn's case, took place off-list. So maybe we're not sharing like we used to. Like we ought to. * Actually, the thing that concerns me the *most* about all of this -- and it's proof positive that Jen's concerns aren't unfounded -- is that in the course of this conversation, longtime and valuable listmembers like Andrea Weiss and Larry Tucker said that *they* don't always feel like a part of the group. I remember Andrea getting off to a rough start with the group, but as we discovered her overwhelmingly good qualities and as she patiently tried to figure out what on earth she'd gotten herself into, we adjusted to her or she adjusted to us or something! I had thought that any issues about acceptance were long past. Anyway, I'm glad Andrea's still here, and I hope that any lingering doubts as to whether she "belongs" will fade. Hearing the same from Larry is even more surprising -- Larry's updates and reviews about goings-on in the Research Triangle and environs, his recommendations, and his off- and on-list generosity seem like part of the bedrock of the list. Larry offers the disclaimer that he's not looking to the list for emotional support, but I think all the same that it wouldn't hurt for those of us who appreciate Larry to let him know about it! Heck, I had even thought that Jen had carved out a distinct and accepted niche for herself -- and I still do think this, even more so now. So stop feeling left out already! * Yes, there was an even longer version of this missive! * I miss Janet. later, Miles white male overweight bespectacled/becontacted white-collar goatee-sportin' midthirties Loud-Fan ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #18 ******************************