From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #17 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, January 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 017 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest [Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Roger Winston wrote: > > I realize that, and I'm sorry if I made it look like I was comparing you to Mark... I just don't want you guys to think that because I occasionally forward a message from Mark that I am somehow his spokesperson, or that just because I consider him a friend that I agree with his modus operandi or all his perspectives. > But you have to actually work and invest something to get at the emotional core of them, unlike a lot of "pop" music. True, and that's true of most of the music I listen to, and one reason I don't listen to a lot of "pop." I don't see a lot of discussion on here about Scott's music or lyrics, though. A few things, like Motion of Ariel and Ms. Jovan, and I've enjoyed that. Maybe I came in too late and that was more common in the old days. > Hopefully we're not too unfriendly to newbies. Well, I did join right in the middle of one of the nastiest religious debates I've ever seen, so hopefully my experience is atypical. > I admit we can be a tough nut to crack sometimes. But once you get to know us, we'll be glad to come over to your place and eat your pizza, drink your beer, and make long distance phone calls. There's beer in the fridge. Good beer. I can whip up a homemade pizza and you can use some of my excess cell phone minutes. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:07:02 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] ay carumba! >3. The Orgone Box "Find the One" - A very Beatle-y verse, by way of a >somewhat Hitchcockian vocal tone, and something like a less yobbish Oasis >feel. I'm hearing the Hollies, too. Still and all, I'm not 100% >persuaded...in the "good not wonderful" category. If at all possible, hear "Judy Over The Rainbow," which just might be my Song Of The Year 2001--except I can't quite verify that the album came out for the first time in 2001. Anybody know for sure? >5. Paula Carino "Discovering Fire"* - One of my favorite tracks from this >CD - although "Venus Records" is the breakout single in my alternate >universe. I seem to be alone in my belief that ROBOTS HELPING ROBOTS, the second and presumably last of Paula's releases as Regular Einstein, is a stronger set than AQUACADE. Not that AQUACADE isn't a perfectly fine record, which I'll spin again soon as I figure out which pile it's buried in the middle of...anyway, ROBOTS is a fine record, with an earlier version of "Venus Records" for those who like that song and I know some folks do, and the only reason I didn't put it on my Top Ten 2000 is that I couldn't quite figure out whether it had had an official release or not. And if you e-mail Paula with sufficient vigor and vim, she might even send you a copy! Oh, and it's produced by Our Scott, anyone who didn't know. My Top Ten 2001 contains a CD that the artist, Tomo Nakayama, burns up one copy at a time and passes around to people, though, so you know how I've subsequently made up my mind on such things. Got my mash note, Andy "This is the kind of person that if I was actually discussing this matter with him/her I'd probably lose it and start wailing on their true believer face with the nearest handy piece of scrap iron. What a motherfucking moron - and you can quote me on that." - --Sam Franklin on http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2002/01/09/lotr_starwars/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:12:33 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > As to the second point: I assume by "criticized" you mean more than just > "disagreed with" I did indeed. I have no trouble with a good, clean argument, but when it becomes something unnecessarily personal in nature then it has crossed a bad line. > but let me offer an > anecdote that might clarify some of what's going on here. My family, > particularly my cousins and siblings, tend to have huge, intense > conversations, often about social and political issues (rather like > Loudfans, actually) when we get together. When Rose first met my family, > she told me she was rather intimidated - partly because that was just her > at the time, but more because she misread the emotional tenor of the > discussions. Specifically, she interpreted one discussion between my > cousin Michael and myself as being heated to the point where she thought > we were truly angry at one another - when neither of us had even > considered feeling that way. We just had strong opinions that disagreed. That's a good anecdote, but just realize that not all families/friends operate this way. Furthermore, it is even more difficult to discern certain emotional flavors in a post, sarcastic humor being a prime example. Does this mean we should refrain from heated discussions or offbeat humor on lists? No, it just means we have to be careful that we don't do things in such a way that people are likely to misread them as personal attacks. > I'm not saying I think all the disagreements on the list have been all > Olympian in their pure intellectual engagement - there's definitely been > an increase in personal nastiness in the last year or so - but I think > that some of it may be a stylistic issue. Some of it likely is. Other of it just seems to be a purer form of nastiness. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:18:47 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 2001 album poll reminder Aaron Mandel wrote: > > A modest number of people have voted in the 2001 year-end poll at: > > http://www.pastemob.org/lf01/ And everyone who hasn't voted in Aaron's 2001 year-end poll yet should realize that by not voting, they're just giving more weight to my own methodically genre-limited top ten list. Front Nine (plus Two) 1. The Orange Peels - SO FAR 2. The New Pornographers - MASS ROMANTIC 3. Cotton Mather - THE BIG PICTURE 4. Yuji Oniki - TVI 5. Minus Five-LET THE WAR AGAINST MUSIC BEGIN/ Young Fresh Fellows-BECAUSE WE HATE YOU (twin pack) 6. The Lilac Time - LILAC6 7. The Pernice Brothers - WORLD WON'T END 8. Steve Wynn - HERE COME THE MIRACLES 9. The Soundtrack of Our Lives - BEHIND THE MUSIC 10.(tie) Belle da Gama - GARDEN ABSTRACT / Paula Carino - AQUACADE These both came out on the same label, they're both around 32 minutes long, and I'll be damned if I'm going to choose one over the other on a list that's publicly archived! Back Nine 12. R.E.M. - REVEAL 13. Guided By Voices - ISOLATION DRILLS 14. Rufus Wainwright - POSES 15. Linus of Hollywood - LET YOURSELF BE HAPPY 16. The Orgone Box - THE ORGONE BOX 17. Kevin Tihista's Red Terror - DON'T BREATHE A WORD 18. The Old 97's - SATELLITE RIDES 19. Ken Stringfellow - TOUCHED 20. Webb Brothers - MAROON A Handful of Reissues: 1. Anton Barbeau - THE GOLDEN BOOT 2. Dream Syndicate - THE DAYS OF WINE AND ROSES 3. The Lilac Time - COMPENDIUM 4. Paul McCartney & Wings - WINGSPAN 5. The Soft Boys - UNDERWATER MOONLIGHT.. AND HOW IT GOT THERE A Handful of Shows: 1. 4/7 - The Soft Boys, Fillmore, SF 2. 6/23 - 23 hour Antonathon, True Love Coffeehouse, Sacramento 3. 6/30 - 125 Records shindig, Starry Plough, Berkeley 4. 8/6 - Roxy Music/Rufus Wainwright, (former) Concord Pavillion 5. 9/23 - Steve Wynn, Make-Out Room, SF Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:50:04 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest In a message dated 1/15/02 6:07:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: > It does > have a sort of air of trying to break into a clique. I guess that is > there to some degree on most lists. I don't know, it just feels > different here. It feels a little chilly. Not cold, but like there's a > bit of a draft. > > Not to take this one part of of context Jen, but I've felt this way at times too. I know I've put my foot in it at times with this list, and probably bored everyone to tears about my book, and some might think me batty, which might be the cause of my feelings here, but I do have the feeling that it is like this sometimes. And I wish this wasn't the case, I do like this list. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:59:54 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest glenn mcdonald wrote: > > I've never been on a mailing list based around an ailment, but it wouldn't > surprise me at all if they were far more communal in an emotional and > empathetic sense. You would expect so, but I've been on (and left) a few that were not so close or accepting. Some only welcomed people with a certain set of approaches toward dealing with the issues and patently rejected any others. Others were very cliquish- old members propping each other up but ignoring even basic questions by new members. Then there are the ones where members try to out-miserable each other, which helps no one. It becomes a contest of who's the worst off and most deserving of sympathy. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:06:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] ay carumba! Wow! I get to respond to a swap post! On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > First up is a fine CD from Joe Mallon and Sue Trowbridge, entitled _20 > Grandes Exitos del Sue y Joe 2001_. The cover is a wonderful parody of > those cheapy compilation CDs - a highlighted gold starburst "sticker" lets > the listener know (in two languages, yet) that the collection is NOT > AVAILABLE IN STORES, and a posed photo of a tango-ing couple is placed > over a generic backdrop of large, blue rectangular shapes. The theme is > carried throughout the packaging - cheesy fonts, cheesy publicity photos > adorning the back cover placed at jaunty angles, etc. Glad you noticed! That was exactly the effect I was going for! > 3. The Orgone Box "Find the One" - A very Beatle-y verse, by way of a > somewhat Hitchcockian vocal tone, and something like a less yobbish Oasis > feel. I'm hearing the Hollies, too. Still and all, I'm not 100% > persuaded...in the "good not wonderful" category. This was released by Bill Forsythe (sp?) on Minus Zero Records. Great shop, great record. www.minuszerorecords.com for more info. > 12. The Kirby Grips "Restraining Order" - An odd little number, catchy but > a bit repetitious, fun but kind of bizarre. For some reason, the second > verse is sung in some language I can't identify. Nice mandolin solo, too. It's Hungarian. One of the bandmembers had a boyfriend who is Hungarian (but not the inspiration for the song). > 13. Jill Olson "Icy Sparks" - Sez here this is a demo from her forthcoming > 125 Records release - quite a coup for our favorite WWTBAM winners. Kind > of a slightly countryish take on a sort of "Gloria" progression...I like > her feisty singing, too. We plan to release the Jill Olson record some time in mid-2002, along with a couple other goodies. Jill is the bass player for the kick-ass country band Red Meat. > 16. Lucinda Williams "Are You Down" - Exquisitely sung, arranged, and > played, but... This CD's drawn wildly mixed reviews, and I think I know > one reason why. Even if it's not, this feels like a total drug song. That languid mood is why I like it. > 17. Yuji Oniki "Rails in Vain" - A lovely track, decorated by Bill Swan's > (Beulah) painterly trumpet playing. The increase in intensity going into > the chorus is very nicely done. Somthing sort of early '70s about this > one...not sure exactly what or who it reminds me of. Bonus: ex-Lister brandley Skaught plays drums. > 18. Fireking "I Don't Mind" - Never heard of these folks...anyway, I like > the bass part in the intro, and the way the guitar and piano work together > before the verses. Kind of a '70s hard power-pop thing going on here, but > another "good but not wonderful" song for me. One of Figures On A Beach is in this band. Sue likes FOAB. > 20. Stephen Malkmus "The Hook"* - A Sue selection, one imagines - unless > Joe's come around on this one. (I do wonder, given the occasional > disjunctiveness of S&J's tastes, how they divvied up the year's top 20 > records.) I like this okay, but I've never really warmed to it that much. > Actually, I think I like Spiral Stairs' Preston School of Industry album > better overall. This is Sue's. Sue & I each picked a few CDs from last year (along with a couple compilations we got), and picked a song from each. We ended up with about 12 songs each, and pared that down. There are some we both picked, so, well, there you go, I guess. Glad you enjoyed the tuneful goodness! J. Mallon P.S. Though it may appear so, Steve H. is *not* on the 125 Records payroll. (Payroll...ha! ha! ha!) He is, however, our target audience. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:13:21 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest 1) This is an incredibly diverse group, as you pretty much say yourself. You're not going to get a lot of "emotional closeness" when there is so many different kinds of people with different life experiences and different ingrained attitudes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> True. In fact, I think that we have white, college educated people in their late 20's-40's who are left handed *and* white, college educated people in their late 20's-40's who are right handed. In addition, I think that some of the men on the list don't have beards, though I'm not 100% sure. In all seriousness, I do agree that it's sad when a member gets hounded off of the list by mean people who don't appreciate a different perspective or way of communicating, and I hope that wherever rainswept is, she forgives us. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Jen, I think that this list has never been the kind of list your posts lead me to understand you expect it to be. There's never been a sense of open emotional bonding on the list itself. We're pals who chat about all kinds of stuff - more like beer buddies than blood brothers. If you don't feel warmly embraced, I think that's because we don't warmly embrace on this list. We'll slap you on the back and welcome you with a joke instead. Why? Well, that's who the most vocal members of the list are. Every list tends to take on the personality of its most vocal participants - although we're not all literature teachers in the Midwest...yet ;) - and those who find that personality unpleasant usually leave. The emotional connections that happen usually happen off-list. As Sue wrote, she & I met on this list, dated, and married. Jo Brown and John Cooper likewise, I believe. Some of the people I've met on the list are very close to me. (I harbor no animosity toward others.) All of that bonding happened in person, or off-list, though. I think Mark's problem was that he wanted the list to be one thing, and it is another. He wanted a warm hug, and when he didn't get one, he became whiny about that. This list isn't (and never has been, to my recollection) a place to purge your emotions and receive emotional validation. That doesn't mean that the other list members (including me) aren't very fond of you, or Andrea, or anyone else who may feel unincluded. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:43:38 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest "Joseph M. Mallon" wrote: > > I think that this list has never been the kind of list your posts lead me > to understand you expect it to be. There's never been a sense of open > emotional bonding on the list itself. We're pals who chat about all kinds > of stuff - more like beer buddies than blood brothers. I don't expect lists to be all touchy-feely, but I do expect a list of what appear to be well-educated, thinking people to be a bit more tolerant of differences, and a bit less sneering and condemnatory when someone does express emotional vulnerability or a less popular opinion. > If you don't feel warmly embraced, I think that's because we don't warmly > embrace on this list. We'll slap you on the back and welcome you with a > joke instead. That's fine and good and usually enough for me, but when you slap people in the face, then it bothers me. ("You" as a collective entity, not you personally). > The emotional connections that happen usually happen off-list. Most of the close bonding on lists does happen off-list, but there has to be something on-list to get that ball rolling, and a willingness between the interested parties to keep that ball rolling. It seems like rolling that ball here is a bit harder work than on some other lists. > I think Mark's problem was that he wanted the list to be one thing, and it > is another. He wanted a warm hug, and when he didn't get one, he became > whiny about that. That's only one of Mark's problems. But in his defense, Mark just wanted to see some humanity injected into a list that seemed cold and impersonal to him. In some senses, he had a point there. > This list isn't (and never has been, to my > recollection) a place to purge your emotions and receive emotional > validation. I don't think it needs to be, or that I would want it to be. But it also shouldn't be an environment that intimidates people into thinking they can't be true to themselves here. > That doesn't mean that the other list members (including me) > aren't very fond of you, or Andrea, or anyone else who may feel > unincluded. I don't feel particularly unincluded at this point. I have made a couple of good friends here (one of whom, sadly, almost never posts because he feels, and I think justly so, a bit persecuted), several friends who have the potential to become good friends, and a number of people have been very generous in regards to sharing music and information with me, and I'm very appreciative of that. But it seems like it took quite a while before I felt very comfortable here. My original observation stands- I am on other music mailing lists that I feel have a deeper and kinder sense of community than this one does. This certainly isn't a bad list, but it could be a bit better. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:27:25 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At Tuesday 1/15/2002 10:43 PM -0500, jenny grover wrote: >That's only one of Mark's problems. But in his defense, Mark just >wanted to see some humanity injected into a list that seemed cold and >impersonal to him. In some senses, he had a point there. "...seemed cold and impersonal to HIM" is I think is the point there. The antics of a few list members aside, it doesn't seem that way to ME. Mark had a strange way of wanting to "inject humanity" into the list: Directing all attention toward himself in the most annoying ways possible, so that people would react emotionally. Well, it worked. And I don't really think that was the only thing he wanted to do. (Sorry Jen, I know you're not really speaking for Mark.) Later. --Rog (Right-handed college educated person in his late 20's-40's, no beard. However, I've never been a DJ, I don't have an English degree, and I'm a political moderate. I also don't really care that much about copyright law or the morality of recording mix tapes, even though I have copyrighted some recordings.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:34:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Dana L Paoli wrote: > people in their late 20's-40's who are right handed. In addition, I > think that some of the men on the list don't have beards, though I'm not > 100% sure. Yes - but are there any men on the list who do *not* wear glasses? (Okay: I've met at least two male Loudfans with neither beards or glasses - but for all I know, they shaved just before I met them and stumbled about with uncorrected vision, just to be contrary. C'mon, Mandel: you've grown a beard, haven't you. - --Jeff, lensed and bearded J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html Today's Out of Context Quotation: ::"I mean, I castrated pigs and dipped snuff when I was younger":: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:45:52 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Roger Winston wrote: > "...seemed cold and impersonal to HIM" is I think is the point there. The > antics of a few list members aside, it doesn't seem that way to ME. Mark > had a strange way of wanting to "inject humanity" into the list: Directing > all attention toward himself in the most annoying ways possible, so that > people would react emotionally. Well, it worked. I know it looked that way at times, but that's not really what he was trying to do. Mark is used to an environment where you put forth something personal about yourself as the accepted overture to making friends. It just came out way wrong. Then someone would insult him, he would get his feelings hurt, and he would try too hard to "fix" the situation. It would snowball into a big mess. I know this because I have emailed with him off-list about this stuff. He really wasn't seeking pity as much as it appeared. But he's not the only person who has told me they found this list impersonal and chilly. > And I don't really think that was the only thing he wanted to do. What else do you think he wanted to do? > (Sorry Jen, I know you're not really speaking for Mark.) I can speak for him a little, simply because I have discussed this stuff with him. But it's not like I'm his lacky or his twin. I used to cringe when I read most of his posts, and I've laid stuff on the line to him, but I've done it without resorting to insults. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:50:44 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest In a message dated 1/15/02 8:28:11 PM, rwinston@tde.com writes: << Mark had a strange way of wanting to "inject humanity" into the list: Directing all attention toward himself in the most annoying ways possible, so that people would react emotionally. Well, it worked. >> Hey, certain Listers aren't giving themselves enough credit here. Let's remember the valiant folks who went through the trouble of joining this list under additional screen names, just so they could anonymously make fun of Mark's tendency to spout off about college-rock acts. There's also that list member who made it his business to respond to nearly all of Mark's posts with derogatory remarks. And how could we forget the person who, only a few days ago, complained that Mark was ignoring multiple off-list e-mails that had been sent dictating proper behavior on this list? The little ingrate just couldn't appreciate all of the self-appointed hall monitors here at Second Chance High School. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At 10:34 PM 1/15/2, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Dana L Paoli wrote: > >> people in their late 20's-40's who are right handed. In addition, I >> think that some of the men on the list don't have beards, though I'm not >> 100% sure. > >Yes - but are there any men on the list who do *not* wear glasses? (Okay: >I've met at least two male Loudfans with neither beards or glasses - but >for all I know, they shaved just before I met them and stumbled about with >uncorrected vision, just to be contrary. > >C'mon, Mandel: you've grown a beard, haven't you. > >--Jeff, lensed and bearded No beard at the moment--I have had in the past, though. I've been prescribed glasses, but don't often wear them, except sometimes in the movies, and when driving at night. And in general, an email list where God knows who could be lurking is one of the last places on earth I'd think to share embarrassing personal details. I'm always happy, though, to vicariously consume the embarrassments of others. Matt The man who does not do his own thinking is a slave, and is a traitor to himself and to his felllow men. ...All I claim, all I plead for, is liberty of thought and expression. That is all. I do not pretend to tell what is absolutely true, but what I think is true... ...I simply claim that what ideas I have, I have a right to express; and that any man who denies that right to me is an intellectual thief and robber. Robert Ingersoll, _The Liberty of Man, Woman and Child_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:03:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, jenny grover wrote: > I don't expect lists to be all touchy-feely, but I do expect a list of > what appear to be well-educated, thinking people to be a bit more > tolerant of differences, and a bit less sneering and condemnatory when > someone does express emotional vulnerability or a less popular opinion. As I expressed to Jenny in an off-list e-mail, I think she's correct here, and accurate in describing the list as having been less tolerant in the last year or two than it once was. Some people's posts have been *so* extreme, and seemingly unmotivated, that I end up being less pissed-off at them than concerned - that they're not receiving the proper psychiatric care. And if that sounded snide or cynical, you're misreading me: I'm serious. > > The emotional connections that happen usually happen off-list. > > Most of the close bonding on lists does happen off-list, but there has > to be something on-list to get that ball rolling, and a willingness > between the interested parties to keep that ball rolling. It seems like > rolling that ball here is a bit harder work than on some other lists. Usually, yes (to Joe's comment at the top) - but at least two or three people on this list I'm close to, I became quite close to before meeting them in person. However, the e-mails through which that feeling evolve were mostly off-list and private. (But maybe that's what Joe meant.) - --Jeff, who thinks that when you ________, I feel ___________. J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Sting, where is thy death?:: __Alan Gray_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:16:54 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At Tuesday 1/15/2002 11:50 PM -0500, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >The little ingrate just couldn't appreciate all of the self-appointed hall >monitors here at Second Chance High School. Shouldn't that be Last Chance High School? Later. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:39:03 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At Tuesday 1/15/2002 11:45 PM -0500, jenny grover wrote: >Roger Winston wrote: > > And I don't really think that was the only thing he wanted to do. > >What else do you think he wanted to do? I started to compose an elaborate answer to this, but it ended up sounding a bit too derogatory towards Scott's music. And that's a place I really don't want to go to right now. My snide backup answer is: Mark just wanted lots of attention from the people he considered (or wanted to be) his peers. Is that so wrong?? We're all really just like Mark, you know. Right, JRT? *Sniff* Later. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:49:46 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Roger Winston wrote: > > My snide backup answer is: Mark just wanted lots of attention from the > people he considered (or wanted to be) his peers. Mark just wanted to make friends with people who liked the same music he liked, and that is what I always thought lists like this were primarily for. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:58:09 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At Wednesday 1/16/2002 12:49 AM -0500, jenny grover wrote: >Mark just wanted to make friends with people who liked the same music he >liked, and that is what I always thought lists like this were primarily >for. I can't quibble with that, and I'm sorry he failed, but I still don't think it's the fault of the community. Later. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:05:57 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Roger Winston wrote: > I can't quibble with that, and I'm sorry he failed, but I still don't think > it's the fault of the community. There was a certain amount of fault on both sides, I'm betting. But I think Mark was an exceptional example dynamics gone wrong. Like I said before, my original post wasn't about Mark. Other people brought him up. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:30:35 -0800 From: Carolyn Dorsey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest on 1/15/02 8:56 PM, Matthew Weber at mweber@library.berkeley.edu wrote: > > And in general, an email list where God knows who could be lurking is one > Speaking of being curious about who is subscribed-- I once tried to get a list of all those who were subscribed to Loudfans on the archive page and it wouldn't let me. Does anyone know if there's a reason that this information isn't available or is it that way for all lists, I wonder? I noticed such a change here after Scott retired-It was alot of fun for us fans when they were touring but I'm sure not very fun for the band. I enjoyed meeting lots of people from the NJ NY area, and Steve H, Joe Mallon, and Sue T. when they were out here from California few years ago. I mean that--I haven't seen any of those people recently but it was very nice to meet everyone. Listening has always been a passion for me but not that many people I know share my obsession with music so I appreciate you all--for information and just knowing there are others who find all this really exciting..... Most of my friends have other priorities. I haven't been in the record research and buying mode lately but now I'm getting back into it. How quickly it happened that I didn't know what anyone was talking about anymore. Some records recently gotten- Pram- Somniloquy--different versions of alot of songs from The Museum of Imaginary animals. Really good if you like Pram. Bobby Callendar-- The Way(First Book of Experiences) from 1968 - sometimes horribly hokey but then very soulful and lovely. A sort of opera of a spiritual journey. Soulish and jazzish-his voice reminds me of Tim Buckley at times. Noonday Underground-Self Assembly--I like this alot, they sound like modern version of a band from a 60s era Detroit club. This is really good dance music. The Byrds-the Preflyte Sessions from 1964 and 65--I can't remember if this has been discussed here already. Some great demo versions and some not so great ones. I don't really know if this is worth the price--maybe to serious Byrds/Gene Clark fans. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:02:05 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest Carolyn Dorsey wrote: > > I once tried to get a list of all those who were subscribed to Loudfans on > the archive page and it wouldn't let me. Does anyone know if there's a > reason that this information isn't available or is it that way for all > lists, I wonder? Depends on the list. I'm on lists that make that available to any subscribers, and lists that only make it available to the moderator. The lists I set up and moderate offered me the choice of if I wanted that info made available to listmembers or not. > Listening has always been a passion for me but not that many people I know > share my obsession with music so I appreciate you all--for information and > just knowing there are others who find all this really exciting..... Most > of my friends have other priorities. I can relate to this, and it's very frustrating at times. I have one truly musically passionate friend in this town. Do you ever encounter the attitude from some of them that it's time you grew up and grew out of thinking this stuff is important? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:09:15 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] getting it off my community chest At 01:30 AM 1/16/02 -0800, Carolyn Dorsey wrote: >I once tried to get a list of all those who were subscribed to Loudfans on >the archive page and it wouldn't let me. Does anyone know if there's a >reason that this information isn't available or is it that way for all >lists, I wonder? As I recall, that information used to be available in the list's very early days, but we got hit bad by a spambot sometime around like 1995 or so, and one of the changes Dennis and Jimmie made at the time was no longer making the email addresses of listees too readily available for harvest. Stewart ______________ Prosciutto is ham. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #17 ******************************