From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V2 #6 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Sunday, January 6 2002 Volume 02 : Number 006 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] An anti-virus/spam query ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] indie rock brain freeze [dmw ] [loud-fans] if you're gonna be an ass, be accurate [Vivebonpop@aol.com] [loud-fans] Re: Magnet article [Steve Holtebeck ] RE: [loud-fans] indie rock brain freeze ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [John Cooper ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [dmw ] RE: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles [Roger Winston ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 02:24:20 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: [loud-fans] An anti-virus/spam query Okay, I was lucky enough to get the virus warning before the virus, and so I never open the file when it's sent to me. But it's still sent to me twenty times a day or so. Can I construct a filter to keep it from landing in my inbox, since I know the address from which it's sent, and the subject heading of the e-mail? I'm running Windows 95. Offlist is fine, and thank you in advance. Back from karaoke, Andy "And if the bottle's no solution Why does it feel so warm And if that girl is no solution Why did she feel so warm And if to feel is no solution Why do I feel Why do I feel so tired Why do I feel so broken Why do I feel so outside Why do I seem so blind I'm so sick of feeling It's ruined my life..." - --from "When I Meet God," lyrics by Steve Hogarth, music by Steve Hogarth, Ian Mosley, Mark Kelly, Steve Rothery, and Pete Trewavas; from Marillion's ANORAKNOPHOBIA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:30:41 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > One more complaint about Magnet, and this is less ethereal. They completely > overlooked Scott and Game Theory in their twentieth anniversary of the > Paisley Underground article last year. I know that this moniker is one of > love/hate both with musicians and fans, but GT was lumped into it, and some I would've left 'em out, too, on account of i never thought they belonged there. three o'clock, rain parade and dream syndicate arguably had some kinda neo-psychedelic think goin' on. long ryders & green on red if they were around today would be considered alt-country game theory was coming from a completely different place, stylistically and in terms of influence. yah know, if i was the editor, i just woulda killed the article. nevermind. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:03:24 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles At 09:30 AM 1/5/02 -0500, dmw wrote: >long ryders & green on red if they were around today would be considered >alt-country Long Ryders, yes, but have you heard the early Green On Red records? They didn't get into the alt-country bag until GAS FOOD LODGING, which I think was their third album. The earlier ones are psychedelic garage rock -- their song "Tragedy" is about as trippy as the Paisley Underground got. That said, I don't think Game Theory belonged there either -- during the Paisley Underground years (let's say '81-'84, although I think all of the bands had rejected the label at least by 1983), Game Theory were making synth-heavy, extremely brittle and self-consciously arty pop with no particular '60s influences. Stewart ______________ Prosciutto is ham. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:26:06 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] indie rock brain freeze spent a buncha time last night going through a stack of the year's releases, still tryna come up with my 'best of' list, and now i have a tune stuck in my head that i can't place. fairly uptempo, male voice, a little raspy, chorus along the lines of "you were something something and i was trapped like a trembling dog" thought it was the pinehurst kids, but that didn't pan out. google is no help. anyone? tks. - -- d. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:39:59 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] if you're gonna be an ass, be accurate Scott Wilson in Magnet kind of pissed me off, so I'm sending a letter in (uh-oh, complaint number 3). He writes, regarding the latest Trembling Blue Stars album, that the tune "Under Lock And Key," quote "has devolved into something the Church would be proud to claim. But to paraphrase Janeane Garofalo in REALITY BITES, the Church is a really good band." You know, if you're going to put down Steve Kilbey, and co., at least get your sources right. It is Winona Ryder's character who says, with cute, almost undetectable sarcasm, "MELROSE PLACE is a really good show." This isn't paraphrasing, either. I should know this source well, as this film is without a doubt my favorite of the 1990s, and I'm not ashamed to let my freak flag fly and say so. I'm sure I've seen it dozens of times. I even got the DVD, recently. Two of my favorite ladies of film together, Janeane and Winona? How could you not enjoy that? Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find a convenience store and dance to "My Sharona." Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:01:20 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet article Stewart Mason wrote: > At 09:30 AM 1/5/02 -0500, dmw wrote: > >long ryders & green on red if they were around today would be considered > >alt-country > > Long Ryders, yes, but have you heard the early Green On Red records? They > didn't get into the alt-country bag until GAS FOOD LODGING, which I think > was their third album. The earlier ones are psychedelic garage rock -- > their song "Tragedy" is about as trippy as the Paisley Underground got. > > That said, I don't think Game Theory belonged there either -- during the > Paisley Underground years (let's say '81-'84, although I think all of the > bands had rejected the label at least by 1983), Game Theory were making > synth-heavy, extremely brittle and self-consciously arty pop with no > particular '60s influences. Also, geographically speaking, the Paisley Underground was an L.A. phenomenon, and even though Scott could've been lumped in by attending UCD with Steve Wynn and Kendra Smith or having a record produced by Michael Quercio, Game Theory was never an L.A. band. Green on Red put out two self-titled EPs and one full-length (GRAVITY TALKS) before GFL, and the early stuff sounds as wacked out and psychedelic as the Rain Parade. The Long Ryders could've been considered alt-country in 1983-84, if that term had existed back then, but they were still quite Byrdsy and retro. The roots of alt-country might be traced back to the Danny & Dusty LOST WEEKEND album (a Green On Red/ Long Ryders/ Dream Syndicate supersession from late '84), because all three of those bands changed their stylistic focus after that album, and could've laid the roots for lots of stuff that followed. I wonder how Magnet decided that last year was the 20th anniversary of the Paisley Underground? I don't remember hearing the words "paisley underground" until 1983, but I wasn't in tune with underground music before then. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:26:27 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] indie rock brain freeze > "you were something something > and i was trapped like a trembling dog" A Google search on "trapped like a trembling" would have gotten you there, but not with "dog" on the end. It's Helicopter Helicopter's "Trembling *God*", from the very fine album _By Starlight_ (whose title track made *my* song list...). glenn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:08:36 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: RE: [loud-fans] indie rock brain freeze On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, glenn mcdonald wrote: > > "you were something something > > and i was trapped like a trembling dog" > > A Google search on "trapped like a trembling" would have gotten you > there, but not with "dog" on the end. It's Helicopter Helicopter's > "Trembling *God*", from the very fine album _By Starlight_ (whose title > track made *my* song list...). you say potato, i say otatop.... thanks glenn! re: paisley underground & who does or doesn't fit. i forgot about some of the earliest green on red stuff (and apparently never heard some of the rest of it) -- so, touche on that count, at least. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:08:28 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles On 1/5/02, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: >Well, I suppose somebody has to play my role here... No. The best years on this list were when nobody was playing what you (proudly?) call "your role." >Just remember that, it really is all about Scott... It used to be. >There's always the exception to every rule, and I've spent a lifetime in the >exception category, so really, my identity here is nothing new to me. I'm >quite used to being the last picked for kickball, either in real life, or >virtually, on this list. I've just gotten a tougher skin since the spring of >2000. Or 1974. Like a juvenile delinquent who has forged a negative >identity for himself and is proud of it... That last sentence sums it up, doesn't it? Except you're not a delinquent, you're a professional victim. You try to turn this list to the subject of your life and your problems at every opportunity, then put on a hurt/brave front when the response isn't that of a psychological support group. Your reward is the attention you get, and the excuse to feel superior to all those nasty, cruel people you goaded into dissing you. (Please don't waste time denying it--I doubt there's a single person on the list who doesn't see what you're doing.) If you were to stop the obsessive attention-getting and keep your posts strictly on topic, you might eventually find yourself getting enough friendly attention so that you don't need to provoke unfriendly responses. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:46:43 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, John Cooper wrote: > If you were to stop the obsessive attention-getting and keep your > posts strictly on topic, you might eventually find yourself getting > enough friendly attention so that you don't need to provoke > unfriendly responses. First, let me note that my response was (as if the "insert irony here" wasn't obvious enough - guess not) more in the nature of light ribbing than the deployment of heavy duty mortars. I'll testify that Mark can sometimes be annoying - I'll testify that I'm damned sure I can be - but I have no problem with people being who they are here. Except: Since this isn't the Outdoing One Another in Personal Vitriol list, the post that I'm responding to should have been personal e-mail - if anything. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::You think your country needs you, but you know it never will:: __Elvis Costello__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:25:32 -0600 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More obscure albums Jeffrey Norman wrote: >On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Bill Silvers wrote: > > > Sure to place me once again near the top of the "least like other loudfans > > lists" list. -b.s. > >Hey, I dunno - three of these nearly made my tops list: That's cool. I was remembering my finish in the leaders among the folks whose list was least like the others in Aaron Mandel's compilation of last year's votes. The dichotomy of my preference for twang and pop is sort of an odd one, It seems. And besides, "nearly" ain't on the list, Jeff. > > My Favorite Records of 2001 > > > 2) Sam Phillips- FAN DANCE- An enthralling collection of songs from a > > uniquely captivating artist. Sam creates a magic here distinct from, but > > comparable to her best record, MARTINIS AND BIKINIS (though you could as > > easily make a similar mix and match comparison with any (save the failed > > experiment of OMNIPOP) of her secular records, according to your taste). > > Sam's the shit. > >But I hate it when people call _Omnipop_ "failed" or "an experiment." It >seemed to follow naturally from her first three albums (as SP), and it's a >briliant, wonderful record in my book. Well, tastes vary and don't need justifying, really, but I disagree with you about the record's following naturally from her earlier three Sam Phillips records, most directly with regard to T-Bone Burnett's production, which at points overhshadows Sam's songs in its chilly soundscapes (My too-facile "experiment" reference is to the production more than to Sam's half of the record). To the extent that it reflects Sam's dismay with pop culture and alienation at the hands of it, OMNIPOP isn't failed at all. It does mostly fail, though, to engage me as a listener. I pulled it out to refresh my memory of it in hopes that I'd hear it more as you do and it still "just don't move me." > > 3) Scott Miller & The Commonwealth- THUS ALWAYS TO TYRANTS- Scott > Miller is > > an unusually acute writer, sharing a rare sense of place and perspective. > > He also fucking rocks. I'll never forget the V-Roys, but I'm sure looking > > forward to more music from Scott Miller. > >The more I listen to this, the better it gets. You and interested others might also check out his live solo LP, ARE YOU WITH ME?, which in the opinion of some is as good or better as THUS ALWAYS. Regardless, it was sort of cool to see "that other Scott Miller" talked about and appreciated here at times in 2001, and not always just by Miles Goosens, either. > > 5) Frank Black and The Catholics- DOG IN THE SAND- Frank Black's best, > most > > consistent record since his eponymous 1993 solo debut. It's kinda slight, > > kinda stupid and a little more than kinda weird, but damn it's fun. > Blast off! > >Actually, compared to a lot of his stuff, it's not that weird - at least >sonically. It suits him, I think - it seems the least self-conscious Frank >Black record. No, placing it in the context of his catalog, I agree with you about DOG. I rather lazily grabbed this best-of as I'd posted it to Postcard 2, an alt.country list where I didn't assume the degree of familiarity with his solo stuff that I maybe would here. And with stuff like "Hermaphroditos Is My Name," I thought maybe a nod to Frank's unique world-view was in order. Finally, as a further excuse to spew about 2001 records, a record that didn't make my top-ten that might just be an excellent entree to him for loud-fans is Robbie Fulks COUPLES IN TROUBLE. Robbie's right at the heart of current alt.country, but COUPLES is nearly a total about-face from his brilliant hard core honky-tonk past, and is the most successful stab he's made yet at a pop record, one which, at its best, justifies comparisons I've seen made to IMPERIAL BEDROOM. b.s. I've been greedy for some destination I can't get to where are you? - -Sam Phillips "Five Colors" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:29:52 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles If you were to stop the obsessive attention-getting and keep your posts strictly on topic, you might eventually find yourself getting enough friendly attention so that you don't need to provoke unfriendly responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, I don't see anyone else trying to get fifteen year old girls to join this list, so just lay off!! Mark, you're the best. Keep up the good work. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:44:23 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles If you were to stop the obsessive attention-getting and keep your posts strictly on topic, you might eventually find yourself getting enough friendly attention so that you don't need to provoke unfriendly responses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, I don't see anyone else trying to get spunky 15 year old girls to join this list, so just lay off!! Mark, you're the best!! Keep up the good work!! - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:38:19 -0800 (PST) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles At 5:46 PM 1/5/2, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >First, let me note that my response was (as if the "insert irony here" >wasn't obvious enough - guess not) more in the nature of light ribbing >than the deployment of heavy duty mortars. I'll testify that Mark can >sometimes be annoying - I'll testify that I'm damned sure I can be - but >I have no problem with people being who they are here. Except: Agreed, and seconded. >Since this isn't the Outdoing One Another in Personal Vitriol list, the >post that I'm responding to should have been personal e-mail - if >anything. Again, agreed & seconded. ubi caritas et amor, Matt Liberty is the doctrine, harmony the way of life. Sebastian Faure, _Anarchy_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Dana L Paoli wrote: > spunky 15 year old girls ain't they illegal?? tho goodness knows i get plenty of spam mail promising 15 year old girls drenched in spunk...i just delete it all, like a good citizen. and not Dana L Paoli wrote: >Since this isn't the Outdoing One Another in Personal Vitriol list, the oh hell. it isn't? i'm sorry. i thought... i mean... - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 01:33:21 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles I'm with John, and if people are lining up to say he should have sent that note privately, I'll cast my vote otherwise. Private emails have been tried ad nauseum, and done no good. Nearly every note Mark writes could be cut in half and improved tenfold by the elimination of all the parts that serve no end but to reiterate that he is pathetic and needy. If this were a moderated list this behavior would garner warnings and eventual removal. Without a moderator, we've got two options: complain or filter. And the way smoe munges the headers I haven't been able to get a filter working effectively. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 23:45:46 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Magnet articles I totally agree with the JDC and glenn, et al. The professional victim thing is indeed wearisome, though it is quite effective at garnering attention. Someone who says "It's all about Scott" and means it would not constantly steer conversation toward himself. But let me add that Mark would at last gain the respect of myself (assuming such a thing were important, which it is not) and others on this list if he would do just one thing, and provide evidence of the fact. That one thing is to pop a tape of SECRET TREATIES into the tape deck of the old Nova or Pinto or whatever it is he drives, cruise the main drag of his town with the windows down, and sing along loudly with "Dominance and Submission", including the guitar riffs. Then and only then will I admit Mark into the Brotherhood. Okay, okay, I'd accept "ME262" or "Career of Evil" also. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V2 #6 *****************************