From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #349 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, December 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 349 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 [JRT456@aol.com] Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 ["Brandon J. Carder" ] Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 ["Brandon J. Carder" ] Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 [JRT456@aol.com] Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 ["Brandon J. Carder" ] Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 [JRT456@aol.com] [loud-fans] Hal Hartley ["Brandon J. Carder" ] [loud-fans] the amendment is carried (ns) [dana-boy@juno.com] [loud-fans] Tenacious D [Jer Fairall ] Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 [jenny grover ] [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead ["amy b. lewis" ] Re: [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Swap CD Review Pt. 1 ["Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 Oh, wait everyone. Before you all hurt JRT's feelings, he's made his point incredibly clear to me: Offlist he sez: But, if it helps, one > of the many obese people I've known--I'm in the pop culture biz, remember--is > a really wonderful woman who was freak-show obese until just over eighteen > months ago, when she had surgery that's finally gotten her down to just being > pleasingly plump. (And I do like shapely women.) That's the sole exception > I've found to the rule. Otherwise, people with healthy mentalities don't > allow themselves to become obese. > > Gosh! He did know a fat person once. And she was such a swell person she's almost skinny now! She must have felt awfully foolish when she realized that despite her healthy mentalities she had *allowed* herself to become obese. Or was it that the surgery actually grafted a healthy mentality into her body causing her to suddenly shed those unpleasing (even to one who likes shapely women) pounds? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:38:21 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 JRT456@aol.com on 2001/12/20 Thu PM 01:29:23 MST wrote: > You know how in the movie "Shallow Hal," we saw that all morbidly-obese > people were really beautiful inside, which kind of baffled the vast majority > whose real-life experience suggests that most obese people have souls that > are really pathetic and lazy and self-pitying? Vast majority of what? Supposedly 62 percent of Americans are either obese or overweight. They look at themselves as pathetic and lazy? Maybe you're talking about the vast majority of smug self-satisfied fit people? Can I come live in your perfect world? I'm 5'9" and 155 lbs, which is supposedly not overweight, but I bet my percentage of body fat is pretty high. > Well, a lot of dead addicts and/or depressed people were also really pathetic > and lazy and self-pitying. Even the talented ones. Or Stuart Adamson. Jesus Christ, JRT. Next you'll be telling us that Kirsty Maccoll deserved to get hit by a boat because she wasn't the skinniest pop chick around. Oh wait, you do like them "shapely". Sorry. The List today is really helping my holiday depression (not). Keep it up. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:37:11 -0800 From: "Brandon J. Carder" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 This is getting bewildering but I think you have come to prove our point for us. The issue is not weight or depression. The issue is ridiculous blanket statements such as your meanspirited post. It's fine to say Stuart Adamson was not a good person for the specific reason you give below. But how does that translate into all Suicides being bad people, or all overweight folks for that matter? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 > Yeesh. Let's get past our weight issues here and dwell on the bigger message, > which is that it's a little weird to automatically see good in a person who > self-indulges himself to an early death. Anyone here who was close personal > friends with Stuart Adamson can disagree, but I think there's some personal > insight provided by his obituaries. He could keep his act together enough to > maintain a rock-star career, but couldn't bother to be around for his > children. That's not a good person. > > If you need to mourn anyone, shed a tear for Bianca Halstead. Her band > released one of this year's few decent albums, and their concert in NYC was > just about the only memorable performance that I got to see this year. She > died this Saturday in a fast car outside of New Orleans. Bianca obviously > loved life too much for that to be her idea of a good end, but it's a > glamorous enough death to do her some justice. > > And, folks, of course I know a lot of really fat people. I work with > pop-culture writers. Still, let's agree that the real-life Gwyneth Paltrow > could stand to gain about 20 pounds. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:49:33 -0800 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 At 01:29 PM 12/20/01 -0800, Brandon J. Carder wrote: >Oh, wait everyone. Before you all hurt JRT's feelings, he's made his point >incredibly clear to me: I've bit my tongue & kept out of this so far...apparently to no avail. Two things: first off, no matter what the provocation, quoting private emails on public forums without the express permission of the sender is not okay. Second, though I understand the howls of displeasure which greeted JRT's comment, this whole unpleasant thread will most likely end when we get past the point of needing to scold him. Put country simple: don't feed the trolls. Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley And they came into the land of Goshen. _The Holy Bible: The Old Testament_, The First Book of Moses, Called Genesis, chapter 46, verse 28 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:59:32 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: [loud-fans] 2001, I hardly knew ye Well, let me say right off that I was not very successful in finding good new music this year. While I continue to look at release dates of possible candidates, here are some preliminary thoughts: Spoon, Girls Can Tell - unless something pretty dramatic happens in the next 10 days, this is going to be number 1. Low, Things We Lost in the Fire - What's that thing on the cover, *CETK4146? And I notice there is no release date anywhere on it. It came out this year, right? Rheostatics, Night of the Shooting Stars Swag, Catchall - I only got this last week, so it hasn't really had acclimation time, but I likes. Ben Folds, Rockin The Suburbs - also only had for a week, but it has my current favorite song on it (Zak and Sara). Incidentally, Ben Folds Five appearance on the Sun records episode of that PBS American Masters thing was excellent (I could have done without Live, Third Eye Blind, or the Howling Diablos featuring Kid Rock, but Matchbox 20 with Jerry Lee Lewis was actually kinda cool). Russ np: Max Webster, Universal Juveniles - which I just noticed has the unfortunate catalog number of WANK-1027. A great album though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:03:48 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 In a message dated 12/20/01 1:41:55 PM, brandon@cypresshouse.com writes: << This is getting bewildering but I think you have come to prove our point for us. The issue is not weight or depression. The issue is ridiculous blanket statements such as your meanspirited post. It's fine to say Stuart Adamson was not a good person for the specific reason you give below. But how does that translate into all Suicides being bad people, or all overweight folks for that matter? >> Well, at least we're making some points here. I, of course, have never said that all suicides are bad people. Jerzy Kozinski's death could arguably be called admirable. Personally, however, I've never known a suicide who wasn't doing us all a favor. To further recap the obvious, I've never said that all overweight folks are bad people. There simply aren't too many good people who allow themselves to get obese. That formerly-large woman I like so much used to buy herself two seats on any airplane to make her and her fellow travelers comfortable. That's not a considerate mentality you'll find among many fellow travelers. I have a hard time believing it's an irrational blanket statement to say that most alcoholics or morbidly-obese people (or even heroin addicts) are selfish and inconsiderate people. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:59:49 -0800 From: "Brandon J. Carder" Subject: Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 > Two things: first off, no matter what the provocation, quoting private > emails on public forums without the express permission of the sender is not > okay. > > Second, though I understand the howls of displeasure which greeted JRT's > comment, this whole unpleasant thread will most likely end when we get past > the point of needing to scold him. Put country simple: don't feed the trolls. > You are right on both accounts and I am guilty as charged. All I have to say in my defense is that I was appalled to received a private e-mail from JRT, something I had not solicited or expected. I sent it on to the list in order to take the discussion back where it belonged (or at least where it came from). I have little desire for contact with JRT even on-list, let alone in private e-mail exchange. I guess the amendment to the first rule would be a requirement for express permission from the recipient to send the message privately in the first place. As for feeding trolls, I wouldn't want JRT to waste away to nothing. On second thought maybe I would... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] you're a rock 'n' roll suicide There is actually a sorta serious question lurking behind all of this, and it is: to what degree is depression voluntary and 'controllable?' JRT seems to suggest that the degree is large, and that the suicidal depressed person is fully responsible for his/her actions and undeserving of sympathy, particularly in cases where the suicide abnegates responsibilities, such as to the suicide's kids. Without getting flamey on anyone's ass, my anecdotal experience really doesn't support that viewpoint, and neither does my (non-professional) understanding of the medical community's take on the matter. A few years ago I was (probably dangerously) depressed for some time; this very list, funnily enough, was one of the things that provided aid and support -- good think I don't need that sort of help from it now. ** I find the 'the year sucks/the year doesn't suck" debate immeasurably tiresome, and I don't see why it has to be fraught with insults on either side. Some of us have more resources -- time, money, motivation -- to seek out new music (and some of us seek out new music for critical purposes at professional/semi-professional levels, and have some of it furnished to us). Some of us have higher or lower standards for the music we listen to, which is anyway judged according to highly subjective criteria. Given that we share in common some degree of fondnesss for a pretty obscure musical artist, can't we dispense with the accusations of laziness and lack of open-mindedness? For what it's worth -- no year that sees a record as good as Cry Baby Cry's _Jesus Loves Stacey_ sucks, as far as I'm concerned. #1 so far. - -- d. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:07:25 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: YOUR [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 In a message dated 12/20/01 1:50:36 PM, mweber@library.berkeley.edu writes: << Two things: first off, no matter what the provocation, quoting private emails on public forums without the express permission of the sender is not okay. >> In fact, we should always be encouraging private e-mails on public forums. What's the matter, MWeber, you got something to hide? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:13:38 -0800 From: "Brandon J. Carder" Subject: [loud-fans] Hal Hartley Anyone know when his new one NO SUCH THING will be released? It played Cannes in like May. Or is it another no distribution limited release project? simple man, bjc Cypress House/QED/Lost Coast Press Publishers of Exotic Paper Airplanes by Thay Yang and Tales From the Mountain by Pulitzer Prize nominee, Miguel Torga We don't rent pigs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:15:44 -0500 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] the amendment is carried (ns) I guess the amendment to the first rule would be a requirement for express permission from the recipient to send the message privately in the first place. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone wishing to contact me off list should send an emailed request to my proxy (to be named later) asking permission to send me a private email. Such requests should state the reason for contact, and the email constituting the contact (should permission be granted) must leave me the opening for a truly clever reply. Please allow 3-4 weeks for processing. - --dana 5'11" 165 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:59:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jer Fairall Subject: [loud-fans] Tenacious D To me, Tenacious D sound like a Rheostatics for people who think the word "fuck" is really, really funny. Jer (who liked Black a lot in HIGH FIDELITY but is quickly growing tired of him) np: Too Much Joy, LIVE AT LEAST (w/ liner notes by glenn mcdonald!) ===== Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:10:54 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > > Personally, however, I've never known a suicide who wasn't > doing us all a favor. That may be more a reflection of your personality than theirs. The suicides I've known were doing no one a favor, and the attempted suicides I've known- well, there's not a single one of them I would wish dead! Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:21:30 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 In a message dated 12/20/01 4:26:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, JRT456@aol.com writes: > Yeesh. Let's get past our weight issues here and dwell on the bigger > message, > which is that it's a little weird to automatically see good in a person who > > self-indulges himself to an early death. Anyone here who was close personal > > friends with Stuart Adamson can disagree, but I think there's some personal > > insight provided by his obituaries. He could keep his act together enough > to > maintain a rock-star career, but couldn't bother to be around for his > children. That's not a good person. > > As far as I'm concerned, JRT, you're a human being, and I forgive you. I can either choose to be offended, or I can forgive you, and forgiveness is the superior avenue to take always. As a 5'7" (8" after a good night's sleep) guy who weighs about 342 pounds, was an overweight child who became an overweight adult, remember that sometimes people don't care about themselves BECAUSE they are fat, not that they are fat because they don't care about themselves. Obesity can be a vicious cycle. There are many factors that play into obesity. I come from a long line of short fat people of German lineage (my mother's side of the family all short fat Germans). I have battled with my weight my entire life. The difference from my perspective is that you are just being vocal and straight about how you feel, and not playing nice nice. I respect that, actually. My southern upbringing is all about being nice to people in their face and talking about them when they aren't around, (which is one thing about southerners that make me want to gag) so your bravado is actually a bit refreshing from my point of view. I can either be offended or I can forgive you, the choice is up to me, and, even if you don't think forgiveness is in order, I forgive you anyway. Considering I've made judgements on people that weren't my place to, and still catch myself doing from time to time, (like that guy that annoys me on that sitcom "Yes, Dear" for that stupid hat he ALWAYS wears...how petty is THAT??? and yes, even my infamous dealings with Stewart Mason, whom I really believe is a nice person that I just got off on the wrong foot with) I get mad at myself for being so judgemental. Who the hell am I to judge anyone???...a short, fat pizza delivery "boy" who lives with his mommy? C'mon! I try to remember that I am just a human being too, so I try to cut myself some slack, forgive myself, and move on. Just remember that you will be judged by the ruler you use to judge others (even if you don't believe in God judging you, other people will judge you by the same standards you judge them). We all have shit in our lives we have to deal with. How you deal with it makes the difference. I'm still learning how to deal with kaka, and hopefully the learning won't end until it's time for me to jet this sad planet. I think one of the big secrets to happiness and peace is 1) realize your humanness and 2) forgive yourself and others liberally. You could have been born Stuart Adamson. Also, I have not forgotten you sending me that Go-Go's video I had long wanted at no charge, so I know you have a good heart. Love, Buddah (literally) on the mountaintop ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:49:49 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] you're a rock 'n' roll suicide dmw wrote: > > There is actually a sorta serious question lurking behind all of this, and > it is: to what degree is depression voluntary and 'controllable?' JRT > seems to suggest that the degree is large, and that the suicidal depressed > person is fully responsible for his/her actions and undeserving of > sympathy, particularly in cases where the suicide abnegates > responsibilities, such as to the suicide's kids. > > Without getting flamey on anyone's ass, my anecdotal experience really > doesn't support that viewpoint, and neither does my (non-professional) > understanding of the medical community's take on the matter. First of all, there is a difference between feeling blue, which often is erroneously labeled depression, and clinical depression, which appears to have chemical imbalances in the brain at its root. Medical forums present that most suicides are clinically depressed people, and within that subgroup, many are bipolar (there are suicides who are not, such as some terminally ill people in terrible pain, or people with other mental disorders other than depression who may commit suicide for delusional reasons). Those who I know through support systems and in other personal ways feel little or no control over their desire to kill or harm themselves while in the throes of a depressive episode. Many don't even really want to die, but can't seem to stop themselves from suicidal behavior or, for the short term, think of any other way out of the unbearable psychic pain. The shirking of responsibility (ie. to one's family) often comes in the delusion that one is a burden, a bad person, a bad parent, etc., whether that is materially justifiable or not, and that those people would be better off without them. This is also often a chemically induced delusion and is not always present when the person is not in a depressive state, though a history of not being able to control one's emotions and behavior certainly can have lingering effects of perceived guilt and weakness. A bipolar in a mixed state or a transitional state is quite vulnerable to self-destruction, as confusion and compulsion are prevalent and there is more energy to carry out ill-conceived actions. Lest anyone think that this is only a problem for people not getting medical help, or who choose to self-medicate (substance abuse rates are high in people with mood disorders, and addiction is a tragic side-effect of that), many of these people are getting medical help, but have not yet found effective medications or combinations thereof, and some suffer needlessly for long periods of time because of mis-diagnosis or doctors who are not progressive or aggressive enough in their approach to treatment, particularly in trying new or experimental medication strategies for refractory patients. It is true that a patient can help with his/her own treatment by working with variables such as diet, psychotherapy, sleep management, stress management, and, of course, treatment compliance (and non-compliance is actually officially considered a symptom of bipolar disorder), but often, sometimes only temporarily in the case of unipolar depression, chemical intervention is needed. All in all, the best way around stigma and misunderstanding is education, and there are many excellent resources about mood disorders and suicide prevention online. A simple search yields a wealth of information. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:16:38 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 JR sez: Yeesh. Let's get past our weight issues here and dwell on the bigger message, which is that it's a little weird to automatically see good in a person who self-indulges himself to an early death. <><><><><><><> Just curious, and I do not mean any disrespect for any dead folks, regardless of my low or other opinion of their bands or other accomplishments, but: Do people, or do they not, hold the ultimate responsibility for their own survival and well being in their own grasp, and is callously chucking that, or is it not, on some level pathetic or contemptible? - --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:21:22 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 Rog sez: I bet my percentage of body fat is pretty high. <><><><><> As I understand it, fatty tissues are where unpurged cannabinols and the like tend to accumulate. - --D is for "dwarf with the big ears and no beard" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:35:26 -0600 From: "Dennis McGreevy" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 Taken out of context, Mark sez: Just remember that you will be judged by the ruler you use to judge others [...] As a 5'7" (8" after a good night's sleep) guy... <><><><><><><> If you remember to pee before you go to bed, this tends to be less of a problem. - --Dennis P.S. Sorry, Mark, but I could not pass that one up. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:43:14 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 On 12/20/01, Dennis McGreevy wrote: >Do people, or do they not, hold the ultimate responsibility for >their own survival and well being in their own grasp... Sounds very fine. But let's say Dennis McGreevy has terminal cancer but doesn't yet know it. Does it make sense to say he holds ultimate responsibility for his own survival in his own grasp? If the answer is yes, in the sense that he has a moral responsibility to fight for survival despite the opinion of experts, then consider a case of brain cancer, or degenerative Alzheimer's, in which the ability of the person to consider and implement a course of self-preservationist action is, in the nature of things, impaired. Can that person be judged irresponsible? >...and is callously chucking that, or is it not, on some level >pathetic or contemptible? What level of mental/emotional torment must a person endure in order for their suicide to escape your contempt? What amount of sustained physical torment might drive you to suicide, and would you expect to be forgiven for it? Just curious, and I don't mean any disrespect to the judgmental. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:16:53 -0500 From: "amy b. lewis" Subject: [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead i just want to publicly thank doug mayo-wells, jen grover, and john cooper for their posts today. if j.r. had never felt the need to stop his agony by the most extreme means, he should thank his holy blessings. not because i can, amy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:39:05 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tenacious TMJ > np: Too Much Joy, LIVE AT LEAST (w/ liner notes by > glenn mcdonald!) A damn fine album, even if my sentimental little essay spoils the _Live at Leeds_ parody effect. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:03:52 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead Wow, I think I count three song titles and two band names in there. But I can't remember who did "Suicide Blonde." There was a song called "Suicide Blonde," right? BTW, "American Pie" is much, much better in French. Even if you don't speak French. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:34:27 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] suicide blonde redhead Dana L Paoli wrote: > > But I can't remember who did "Suicide Blonde." There was a song called > "Suicide Blonde," right? INXS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:53:30 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 > Just remember that you will be judged by the ruler you use to judge others [...] > As a 5'7" (8" after a good night's sleep) guy... Yeah, I wake up like that in the morning too. Although, sad to say, I'm a bit short of such imposing virility. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:04:12 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 At Thursday 12/20/2001 10:53 PM -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Yeah, I wake up like that in the morning too. Although, sad to say, I'm a >bit short of such imposing virility. Just when I thought that Mark was the King of Too Much Information... Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:25:30 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > At Thursday 12/20/2001 10:53 PM -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > >Yeah, I wake up like that in the morning too. Although, sad to say, I'm a > >bit short of such imposing virility. > > Just when I thought that Mark was the King of Too Much Information... Wait till you see the statues in my bathroom. Whoops, wrong list. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:31:07 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] WARNING: Scott Miller I was just listening to "Chicago and Miss Jovan's Land-o-Mat" the other day and trying to figure out what that song's all about. I've got a theory, but I'm too tired to think it through right now, and I'm curious what others think. Anyone have any idea (assuming most of us have heard it)? - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. ::I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! __"raus"__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:45:36 -0800 (PST) From: mweber@library.berkeley.edu (Matthew Weber) Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loud-fan 2001 Top 5 At 11:25 PM 12/20/1, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Roger Winston wrote: >> Just when I thought that Mark was the King of Too Much Information... > >Wait till you see the statues in my bathroom. I think the next line needs to be taken to private email. And surely this thread deserved to be addressed to "The Adventures of Matt Weber's Cock"... Matt Appeals to a government for a redress of grievances, even when acted upon, only increase the supposed legitimacy of the government's acts, and therefore to its amassed power. Fred Woodworth, _Anarchism_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:47:24 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] WARNING: Scott Miller I think it's about relatively obscure sympathetic lazy American depressed skinny or overweight people with flawed characters getting records for free and driven to quoting private e-mail and possibly even suicide by making blanket statements regarding their lists of top five records of 2001, none of which included The Ramones, eventually resorting to stress management and calculating the imposition of their virility. |I was just listening to "Chicago and Miss Jovan's Land-o-Mat" |the other day and trying to figure out what that song's all |about. I've got a theory, but I'm too tired to think it |through right now, and I'm curious what others think. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:07:45 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] glamorous death On Thursday, December 20, 2001, at 03:25 PM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > If you need to mourn anyone, shed a tear for Bianca Halstead. Her band > released one of this year's few decent albums, and their concert in NYC > was > just about the only memorable performance that I got to see this year. > She > died this Saturday in a fast car outside of New Orleans. Bianca > obviously > loved life too much for that to be her idea of a good end, but it's a > glamorous enough death to do her some justice. So being stupid and killing yourself by driving too fast is glamorous? Or maybe she was just riding with some idiot. Either way... - - Steve __________ Misadvised by a frustrated and panic-stricken attorney general, a president of the United States has just assumed what amounts to dictatorial power to jail or execute aliens. - William Safire ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:59:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Swap CD Review Pt. 1 My apologies to Stewart, who sent me a great CD in July. Here is a review of it. My penalty for waiting so long? Missing out on the great music he included. Sue & I both added comments. rats? coming, werewolves? here! (july 26, 2001) "Dad's Lapse" - Ivor Cutler S: This is a 15-second spoken word track, so there's not much to comment on here. J: Wry English humor "A Worm Is At Work" - Henry Cow J: Clip-cloppity art music "Sad Sing" - Tom Newman S: Even though this song has "sad" in its title, it's actually very jaunty and Celtic-sounding. J: Indeed - very much a sea chanty sound "Stand By Your Masses" - John Southworth J: Off-key polemics. Probably a lot more important than it sounds to the people who like it "New Slang" - The Shins S: This is one of only two songs on this CD that I'd heard previously. I'd downloaded this from SubPop's web site. Since both Stewart and SubPop selected it as the representative Shins song, I wonder if that means it's the stand-out track on their album. In any case, this is a gloriously pretty song. It reminds me a little of the LF's "Just Gone." J: Very shimmery and winsome, bedsit pop at its best. Definitely worth checking out. "The Rats Are Coming! The Werewolves Are Here!" - The Doleful Lions J: An absolute stunner! I can't stop humming the chorus. I know the album from which this came garnered some conversation here when it came out, and I will be getting it when I can. "Undone" - Autoliner S: I've never heard of Autoliner, but with glossier production, this song sounds like it could have been an AM radio hit in the late '70s for someone like Marty Balin. It has that soaring quality. J: If you love the Raspberries, you'll like this. The third great song in a row. I've already bought their 2001 CD. Which one is this song on? "Allt Pa Ett Kort" - Bob Hund S: I saw Bob Hund on TV when we were in Sweden and wasn't motivated to buy any of their albums, but I've got to say that this track has really grown on me. However, despite the fact that I speak fluent Swedish, I don't understand a word they're singing -- the emphasis here is definitely on the noisy guitars. I think I heard the word "cykel" (bicycle) in there somewhere. J: On closer listen, I heard a few more words. They're huge in Sweden. "We Are The Dead" - The Bevis Frond S: When I saw the title, I thought maybe it would be a cover of the David Bowie song, but it's not. I like this track quite a bit. The Bevis Frond is one of those groups I had always been meaning to check out, particularly since Nick Saloman was kind enough to write liner notes for one of our CDs, but they have so many albums out that I was never quite sure which one to buy. I wound up buying VALEDICTORY SONGS, the CD on which "We Are The Dead" appears, and I'm totally blown away by it -- probably the best CD purchase I've made all year! I think the Frond have a rep as sort of a noodly guitar band, but VS is a very song-oriented disc. Highly recommended. "1970 (Rehearsal, Take 3)" - The Stooges S: This is one I can skip, mostly because it just seems to go on and on (I just checked, and it's over 8 minutes long). I still think "I Wanna Be Your Dog" is one of the greatest records of all time, though. J: Okay, the Stooges are a great band, etc. I'm starting to get them. Cheers to Stewart for trying. Part 2 to follow directly. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:00:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Swap CD Review Pt. 2 Here's Pt. 2 of the review of Stewart's terrific swap CD. "Handful of Gimme" - The Killer Shrews J: Rockin' little rockabilly tune. Great chorus. "Lots of Hearts" - Wreck Small Speakers On Expensive Stereos S: I think you've gotta love this for the band name alone. Luckily, it didn't wreck my small speakers. J: Reminiscent of Godspeed You Black Emperor, which is okay, I guess. "What's New Mary Jane" - The Moles J: Great pop song, and a title nicked from the Beatles. What's not to love? "Mercury, The Sun and Moon" - Jenifer Jackson S: Another artist I've never heard of. There's a bit of a Kirsty MacColl vibe to this song, I think. It's quite nice. J: Really swinging song, and not in that horribly arch retro way. A must-have. I've already bought her record. "Cargo Culte" - Serge Gainsbourg S: This is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while. Serge murmurs softly in French as a rock band jams in the background. It's so quiet at first that you almost have to turn the volume up on the stereo to hear it. Eventually, a choir comes in, "oh"-ing in the background. It's weird and spooky sounding, but also brilliant. I looked this song up on the web, and it was released in 1971. It must really have perplexed people back then. Serge was obviously a man ahead of his time. J: Another alt-icon I don't get. Heaps of pretention, and not much else. "Your Majesty Is Like A Cream Donut" - Hatfield and the North J: Can't go wrong with Hatfield. The tweaky synth and fluid playing are always good to hear. "Don Alfonso" - Mike Oldfield S: Isn't this the "Tubular Bells" guy? This is pretty freaky -- definitely nothing like "Tubular Bells." Catchy, though. J: This is some f'ed up stuff here. A little too camp for repeated listenings. "Extract from The Messiah" - Slapp Happy S: The only thing I know by Slapp Happy is "Everybody's Slimmin'," which I used to play on my college radio show. They seem to be quite the eccentric English oddballs. J: Went by too quickly for me to get a good impression. "Post-Punk at Cambridgeside Mall" - Ad Frank S: For the record, this is the second song on the CD that I'd heard previously. I'm not totally sold on it. It seems a little overdramatic. J: Has the practice of nicking movie dialogue for the beginning of songs petered out yet? Don't care too much for the song. All in all a fabulous CD. I can't stop listening to it. Well done! J. Mallon ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #349 *******************************