From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #340 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, December 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 340 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Re: glennfactor (ns) [mick ] [loud-fans] freaky links [Vivebonpop@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] freaky links [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: glennfactor (ns) ["glenn mcdonald" ] RE: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... ["Chr] Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... [Jeff] Re: [loud-fans] glennfactor (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] freaky links [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Talking about writing about films about books ["Andrew Ha] [loud-fans] This is my research ["Brandon J. Carder" ] Re: [loud-fans] glennfactor (ns) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] This is my research [Michael Roeser ] [loud-fans] more live xtc [steve ] Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... [Vive] Re: [loud-fans] freaky links [Vivebonpop@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... [Vive] Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... [Vive] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:33:10 -0500 From: mick Subject: [loud-fans] Re: glennfactor (ns) >From: Dana L Paoli > >Did someone yet mention that glenn's site gets a plug (for his piece on >the most recent Guided By Voices album) in the new Chickfactor. I was a >big fan of this review, and I'm glad to see it singled out for praise. > >In celebration, I say we all bop around our rooms to groovy french pop >while drinking fizzy champagne and asking our friends who their >supercrush is. I say we don't. Frankly, I thought the review sucked. glenn tripped all over himself when he first discovered GBV, and then when Bob Pollard's personal life went off the rails, he used the Isolation Drills review to write Pollard off, making the ridiculous assertion that "we are all to blame" for his problems by being consumers of his work. glenn also states, incorrectly, that the previous GBV record was all "Ric Ocasek's doing"; one listen to the demos for that record is enough to blow that theory out of the water. While glenn stands at the record store bin contemplating "good and evil", Bob is currently doing some of the most exciting work of his career (Tower In The Fountain Of Sparks, Choreographed Man Of War, etc.). Having said that, glenn's an intelligent fellow, and his writing can be often be interesting and insightful. But the review you are referring to was simply the worst thing I've ever read on TWAS. mick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:58:21 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] freaky links There is a link on this morning's AOL welcome screen that I thought was a scream. "Find out what Pink, Enrique and Ludacris want for Christmas." My first reaction was, WHY??? I saw a Pink album in the BMG music catalog, so I know that she's some sort of singer, and I think I may have seen an Enrique album somewhere, but who is Ludacris? Does he hang out with Eminem? Just WHO is the typical AOL user? A 14-year-old girl with felt penned butterflies on her three subject notebook, Capri flares from Old Navy and a halter top? And if so, where are they getting the $24 dollars a month to pay for the service? M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 8:31:48 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] freaky links Vivebonpop@aol.com on 2001/12/14 Fri AM 07:58:21 MST wrote: > WHO is the typical AOL user? You. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:07:19 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: glennfactor (ns) Dana, thanks for pointing out the Chickfactor mention! Mick, I'm guessing from the phrasing of your disgusted reply that you meant it to be a private response, but between you you've succinctly recapitulated the spectrum of feedback I got after that piece went up. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:12:58 -0500 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... They serve breakfast at Chick-fil-A? |I was in a free-standing Chick-fil-A the other morning having |breakfast and ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:16:49 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > out laughing hearing a sad version of "The Way We Were" on a forlorn lone > violin. It was so embarassingly ironic. Don't you mean "unironic"? It would be ironic as opening music for Staind... I was waiting for "Do You Know > Where You're Going To?" or Michael Jackson's "Ben" to come up next (suicidal > '70s pop...the kind where you want to drive your Pacer off a cliff...or you > try and slit your wrists with waffle fries). Ah, but the all-time champion here is of course Gilbert Sullivan's "Alone Again Naturally." (Pretend there's a long, involved, personal screed about how I don't mean to be insensitive to people who are actually suicidal, because I've been there, and my cousin's grandfather shot himself, plus he had a voice like William S. Burroughs, and...oh never mind.) ..and be gone. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Being young, carefree, having your whole life ahead of you, ::dancing the night away to celebrate... ::oh, and the untimely death of Jackson Pollock. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:21:06 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] glennfactor (ns) On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > Did someone yet mention that glenn's site gets a plug (for his piece on > the most recent Guided By Voices album) in the new Chickfactor. I was a > big fan of this review, and I'm glad to see it singled out for praise. Is that the one where he says that the band's success cost Pollard his marriage, and that we therefore shouldn't buy the album? Interesting, although I disagree - if I recall, my response to glenn was along the lines of, "how do we know the music isn't the only thing keeping him together these days?" Oh - and a public shout-out to Miles, thanking him for pointing out the Owsley CD in the racks at Used Kids when we were in Columbus visiting the IDs. It's a big hit in this household, and I'm pretty sure any "power-pop" fan here would like it as well. - --Jeff Jeffrey Norman, Posemodernist University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Dept. of Mumblish & Competitive Obliterature http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ np: The Dismemberment Plan _Emergency & I_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:22:18 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] freaky links On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > but who is Ludacris? Does he hang out with Eminem? Ludacris is a rapper in the 'Dirty South' mode, sort of like Outkast. i learned this in about sixty seconds by searching the web. why didn't you? i keep getting accused of willfully staying ignorant about various musicians for snobby reasons. it's an interesting issue, because i certainly never say "that's below me" and tune out some music i'm otherwise interested in. on the other hand, i *do* make a conscious effort not to plug into streams of data about "music in general" unless it's stuff that matters to me, which means that the stuff i miss is *exactly* the stuff that my friends absorbed from MTV/Entertainment Weekly/whatever without any particular effort on their parts. so like i was saying, there's this idea floating around that hipsters don't know what the kids are listening to because of their debilitating hipness. and yet i only really see that attitude in aging folks who're more interested in dissing the kids than understanding them. but i'm not talking about you here, Mark. you're your whole own thing. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:30:33 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] freaky links On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > > > but who is Ludacris? Does he hang out with Eminem? > > Ludacris is a rapper in the 'Dirty South' mode, sort of like Outkast. > i learned this in about sixty seconds by searching the web. why didn't > you? In fairness (and recalling other incidents here in which people snooted others for not doing research), the usual answer is simply "because I'm lazy." I know I'd cop to it. But a better, if less honest, answer is: asking like that elicits people's personal responses...rather than whatever probably-mainstream quotes pop to the top of search-engine queries. Plus, Loudfans *is* a search-engine: little-known, but true. (I programmed its bots that way - surely some of the handful of actual humans here might be suspicious at the list's rather database-like behavior and knowledge...) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::The more you drive, the less intelligent you are:: __Miller, in REPO MAN__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Long Road... On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Steve Holtebeck wrote: > If anyone hasn't yet checked out the searchable Usenet archive at > groups.google.com, it's a great way to waste productive time. Finding > the first mention of your favorite semi-obscure band, looking up current > and former friends by name or email, even looking through your own > drunken newsgroup posts from years gone by. There's a timeline at the It's weird seeing your own name in someone's .sig quote, when you completely forgot having ever said what was in the quote... And waddaya know, it's Aaron Mandel doing the quoting (apparently - as loudfans present on fegmaniax will recognize - a habit of his!). For the curious: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=9gdbnl%24ugl%241%40news.fas.harvard.edu&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522jeffrey%2Bnorman%2522%26hl%3Den%26scoring%3Dd%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:54:50 -0800 From: Elizabeth Setler Subject: Re: [loud-fans] freaky links At 9:58 AM -0500 12/14/01, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: >There is a link on this morning's AOL welcome screen that I thought was a >scream. "Find out what Pink, Enrique and Ludacris want for Christmas." My >first reaction was, WHY??? I saw a Pink album in the BMG music catalog, so I >know that she's some sort of singer, and I think I may have seen an Enrique >album somewhere, but who is Ludacris? All three are currently in Billboard's top 15 albums. Why you'd want to know what they want for Christmas is another question, but as for the reason you *wouldn't* want to know being that nobody knows who they are: Nah. For the record, I kinda like the Pink and Ludacris albums. Wouldn't buy them necessarily, but they're not bad. Haven't heard Mr. Iglesias yet, but he's got a big monster post-9/11 hit called "Hero" (by which I mean not that he recorded it post-9/11, but that the market for a song called "Hero" suddenly inflated right about then). > Just >WHO is the typical AOL user? A 14-year-old girl with felt penned butterflies >on her three subject notebook, Capri flares from Old Navy and a halter top? >And if so, where are they getting the $24 dollars a month to pay for the >service? From their mommies, natch. Same place they got the money for the Old Navy flares. Drop into any chat room at random - you'll see pretty quickly who the typical user is. (Disclaimer: Some of my best friends have AOL accounts. Actually, so do I.) - -- Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:22:59 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Talking about writing about films about books >I considered including >ELECTION in the above list as it and HIGH FIDELITY are >easily my two favorite movies of the last five-ish >years but I thought that Alexander Payne's film was >such an improvement on Tom Perotta's rather slight >novel that I never really thought of the film as an >adaptation of a book that I liked and wanted to see >justice done to. Ah, glad someone agrees here. ELECTION is one of the few examples I can think of, from my experience, of a film adaptation turning out superior to the original book. But that's mostly because I found the book, relatively anyway, lacking in gravitas. "Pink Enrique" sounds like a band name to me! Andy Our hostess was in high spirits, but not in a good mood. [T.S. Eliot] was being very >difficult<, she averred; only one human being seemed now to interest him, and ex-policeman of about seventy years of age, who aced as odd-job man and was a habitual drunkard...After dinner...while Joyce was talking to us of Italian opera, which he so greatly loved, and was even singing passages to us of his favorite works, a door in the further wall of the passage suddenly swung back, and out stepped the figure of an elderly man in a dark suit with white hair and moustache, blinking as if he had suddenly emerged from darkness into a strong light, and--rather singularly inside a house--crowned with a bowler hat... I had at once identified this rather tortoise-like individual as the ex-policeman of whom Vivienne had spoken. Silence now fell on the company. The newcomer stopped in the doorway opposite us for a moment, and made to each of the three of us--Joyce, Faber and me--a sweeping bow with his hat, saying as he did so, "Goo' night Mr.. Eliot!" "Goo' night Mr.. Eliot!" "Goo' night Mr.. Eliot!" and then...went on his way humming to himself. [--Observe Still, describing a dinner thrown by T.S. Eliot and his wife Vivienne to celebrate the lather's release from a mental home, 1927. Recounted in John Richardson's SCARED MONSTERS, SACRED MASTERS.] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:25:54 -0800 From: "Brandon J. Carder" Subject: [loud-fans] This is my research Preparing to spend my christmas bonus at the record store. Anyone have anything to say about any of the following? (These are ranked in order of decreasing curiosity to me. Someone care to rearrange them in order of importance?) Pernice Brothers world won't end The Clientele suburban lights Sparklehorse good morning spider Archer Prewitt white sky Neutral Milk Hotel in the aeroplane over the sea Cardinal s/t The New Year newness ends American Analog Set from our living room to yours Guv'ner spectral worship Jan Jelinek loop-finding-jazz-records Geraldine Fibbers lost somewhere between the earth and my home Portastatic del mao de meleo Unwound leaves turn inside you thanks, bjc np Low and Springheel Jack _Bombscare_ Cypress House/QED/Lost Coast Press Publishers of Exotic Paper Airplanes by Thay Yang and Tales From the Mountain by Pulitzer Prize nominee, Miguel Torga We don't rent pigs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:06:05 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] This is my research I'll do the short versions, as such is my desire: The Clientele suburban lights: dreamy guitar pop, vaguely along the lines of Felt or Belle and Sebastian, without sounding like either group. A certain sameness of the material doesn't really detract from a great rainy day album. They are better live, IMHO: it's not immediately apparent from these slightly low budget (*not* lo fi) recordings that the lead singer has an incredible voice and plays guitar like a man who knows how to play guitar, and without a pick too. The band voted most likely to sing about the weather. Cardinal s/t: If you like orch-pop, odds are about 99 to 1 that you'll like this as it's one of the classics of the genre. Breathy male vocals, strings, horns, guitars, excellent melodies, harmonies from heaven. 3/4 of Parasol's roster is trying to approximate this one's greatness. If you've heard an Eric Matthews solo album, this sounds like that, only better. If you've heard a Richard Davies solo album, this is different. It's nothing like the Moles. (Eric Matthews + Richard Davies = Cardinal. Moles = RD's old band). American Analog Set from our living room to yours: There's someone else on this list who's a bigger fan of AAS than I, so I'll leave this one, but on the off chance that he doesn't write...the first three AAS albums are all great and fairly interchangable. A cross between Stereolab and Galaxie 500 seems to be a popular description. Their singles collection is nice as well. Their new album has mixed reviews. Unwound leaves turn inside you: It's probably going to be my #1 of the year, but it's probably not for everybody. I like to describe it as the Who (circa Quadrophenia) playing in the style of Sonic Youth and performing Fugazi covers. If that's unhelpful, it's arty post-hardcore with great production and a wonderful drummer. The lead singer does not sound like Roger Daltrey. Much more melodic than previous Unwound. Like many 2*LPs it probably would have made a better single disc, but Kill Rock Stars sell their CDs cheap, so I won't complain. It took a few listens for it to sink in. Don't be put off by the first track, which is about 2 minutes of a one-note drone; I eventually came to see that it belongs there. Of these four, I'd say that for most people the Cardinal album would be the most indispensable. - --dana np: The Nightblooms Live - A one sided album with six songs and five locked grooves. Beats even Lee Ranaldo's solo disc for annoying formats. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] glennfactor (ns) On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > "how do we know the music isn't the only thing keeping him together > these days?" perhaps that's the problem. he now sounds like he knows he's got an audience for whatever he does -- as opposed to, in the old days, sounding like he didn't care if he ever had an audience for it. to a first approximation both things lead to a musician doing whatever the hell he/she wants, but these days a certain luster is lacking. to put it another way, if the music is the only thing keeping someone going, there was probably a point just before that where, if it had been clear the music *couldn't* support that kind of weight, other decisions might have been made. except that i don't see Pollard as that much of a mess, so i'm not really doing this calculation myself. people who've provisionally given up on him might want to check out the Circus Devils album. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:10:03 -0800 From: Michael Roeser Subject: Re: [loud-fans] This is my research On 12/14/01 2:25 PM, "Brandon J. Carder" wrote: > Preparing to spend my christmas bonus at the record store. Anyone have > anything to say about any of the following? (These are ranked in order of > decreasing curiosity to me. Someone care to rearrange them in order of > importance?) emusic.com has the Pernice Bros and Cardinal albums available as MP3s. They also recently started getting a bunch of Matador product (Yo la Tengo, Helium/Timony, GbV/RP/TS, Spoon, Soft Boys, Barbara Manning/SF Seals, Mark Eitzel). Good stuff! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:04:09 -0600 From: steve Subject: [loud-fans] more live xtc Sir Demon Brown & Vee Tube have put up more live xtc at - http://www.xtc4u.org/ - - Steve __________ As for "encouraging people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil," there's only one prominent person trying to intimidate legitimate critics into shutting up about actions they feel to be both wrong and deeply un-American at present. He is, unfortunately, the attorney general of the United States. - Jacob Weisberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:11:09 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... In a message dated 12/14/01 3:17:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: > (Pretend there's a long, involved, personal screed about how I don't mean > to be insensitive to people who are actually suicidal, because I've been > there, and my cousin's grandfather shot himself, plus he had a voice like > William S. Burroughs, and...oh never mind.) > > ..and be gone. > oh, whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:32:34 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] freaky links In a message dated 12/14/01 10:32:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, rwinston@tde.com writes: > > WHO is the typical AOL user? > > You. > > Later. --Rog > > > But I'd look frightening in Capri flares! I'd get arrested if I even CONSIDERED putting on a halter top. I'd look like Divine on acid (but you've caught me...I felt pen butterflies on EVERYTHING) And Jeffrey, sorry if I stepped on your toes making jokes involving the topic of suicide; it really isn't a funny subject, but if everyone here was PC and ultra sensitive to all issues on the list there wouldn't be much posted. (Christianity certainly is a free for all, isn't it?) Also, I've been quasi pissy the past few days, and I think it's showing up in my writing. I need a vacation. C'mon, get happy! (oh shut up) M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:40:47 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... In a message dated 12/14/01 3:12:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, chris@studiomoxie.com writes: > They serve breakfast at Chick-fil-A? > > > Yeah, they had two chicken biscuits for 2 dollars as a special and I grabbed a couple. Pretty good deal considering how pricey that restaurant chain is for their food. M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:58:57 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pressure cooked chicken, sad stringy pop covers.... In a message dated 12/14/01 3:17:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: > (Pretend there's a long, involved, personal screed about how I don't mean > to be insensitive to people who are actually suicidal, because I've been > there, and my cousin's grandfather shot himself, plus he had a voice like > William S. Burroughs, and...oh never mind.) > > ..and be gone. > > --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey > Hey, sorry Jeffrey. I re-read this more carefully, and I totally misinterpreted what you wrote. Forgive me, I just got off work from my pizza shlepping gig, and I'm frayed. The manners of people on the road this time of year is quite the opposite of the supposed brotherly love of the season (imagine someone saying "Merry Christmas," then shooting you a bird), plus the amount of traffic is just incredible and we've been super busy. Excuses yes, but seriously, I NEED A VACATION. The good part of my week was my last subbing gig. The kids were great. I need more days like Thursday. M ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #340 *******************************