From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #329 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, December 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 329 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] LoudSwap review ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" ] Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage ["O Geier" ] [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) ["Aaron Milenski" ] RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) [Stewart Mason ] RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage [smholt@ix.netcom.com] RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) ["Keegstra, Russell" ] Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage [Vivebonpop@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:51:19 -0000 From: "Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] LoudSwap review Joe writes: > 7. "Lucky Day" Jason Falkner > The Garage, London, UK - Mar. 1, 1999 > Exactly like the studio version Which is actually quite remarkable! Phil and I saw this show and Jason was, er, slightly hampered by the fact that his shoulder was dislocated and he could only play keyboards one-handed and guitar not at all! Ian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 05:31:42 -0800 From: "W. David Barnes" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage on 12/2/01 9:29 PM, Vivebonpop@aol.com at Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > I know this probably gets knocked around every season, but I would very much > like to know favorite Loudfan Christmas tunes. Also, what is the weirdest > Christmas song/album you ever encountered? > > Mark I really like 'Little St. Nick' by the Beach Boys but my very favorite is the Crash Test Dummies doing 'The First Noel'. It was on an alt-Xmas compilation ('Lumps of Coal'? Something about rust?) that I have never been able to find...It's a pretty straightforward reading and just hits all the right notes for me. Bach's 'Christmas Oratorio' on the classical side... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:00:38 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage <> I like it traditional in my house. I'm cornball as hell too. I love Bing Crosby, Perry Como, Andy Williams, etc. I reminds me of being a kid and listening to the stuff my dad played. I love choral and organ music. And I've recently ordered 'Christmas with The George Shearing Quintet'. He's the original 'comp tape' man, and I'm talking about reel to reel! Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:46:47 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) ...that Caravan haven't been mentioned on this list. A search of the archives gets no results, though I'm not sure how far back escribe goes. Hard for me to believe. Anyway, someone is dumping their old Caravan CD's at my local store, presumably so they can pick up the reissues. I'd never bothered to check the band out, as I don't dig the prog much, but took a chance on "In the Land of Grey and Pink." While parts of the CD still bug me, that "Golf Girl" song is awfully good. I'm wondering if they did anything else concise (well, 5:05 is concise in this context) and catchy like it. Fans of sort of stripped down folk/rock (like Palace, maybe) might want to check out the band Royal City. I've been finding some very neat stuff via epitonic lately, and this one is particularly nice. The link (with mp3s) is: http://www.epitonic.com/artists/royalcity.html I prefer the songs from the newer album, but some might like the more minimal sound of the first one. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:55:13 -0800 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) >Anyway, someone is dumping their old Caravan CD's at my local store, >presumably so they can pick up the reissues. I'd never bothered to check >the band out, as I don't dig the prog much, but took a chance on "In the >Land of Grey and Pink." While parts of the CD still bug me, that "Golf >Girl" song is awfully good. I'm wondering if they did anything else >concise (well, 5:05 is concise in this context) and catchy like it. My vague recollection is that WATERLOO LILY is the most poppy/least noodly of their albums. Don't sue me if I'm wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:10:20 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) Dana sez: >Anyway, someone is dumping their old Caravan CD's at my local store, >presumably so they can pick up the reissues. I'd never bothered to check >the band out, as I don't dig the prog much, but took a chance on "In the >Land of Grey and Pink." While parts of the CD still bug me, that "Golf >Girl" song is awfully good. I'm wondering if they did anything else >concise (well, 5:05 is concise in this context) and catchy like it. I'm not much of a prog fan, but I really like Caravan, simply because when they feel like it they can write great pop songs and even when they don't they remember to actually write melodies. There's at least one goodie on each of the first six albums. My personal favorite album is FOR GIRLS WHO GROW PLUMP IN THE NIGHT, which is similar to IN THE LAND OF GREY AND PINK, except that the one really long song is 10 minutes instead of a whole album side (which makes me like it more.) There are a bunch of memorable tunes on that album, though I should mention that IN THE LAND... is generally their fan and critical favorite. In any case, those are the two albums of theirs I would most highly recommend. There's a compilation called CANTERBURY TALES, which as far as I can see, has all of my favorite short songs of theirs, including some ("Stuck In A Hole," "The World is Yours") from albums that I find somewhat tedious, and some very well-chosen long ones. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:11:30 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) >My vague recollection is that WATERLOO LILY is the most poppy/least noodly >of >their albums. Don't sue me if I'm wrong. I'll sue you if you play too long (play it wrong?) WATERLOO LILY has "The World Is Yours," one of their great pop tunes, but is otherwise pretty noodly. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:53:51 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) >...various Caravan musings... I think there is a Caravan sized hole in my prog collection. They seem to have interchanged quite a few members with Camel, does that imply a style similarity? You couldn't be in Grand Rapids in the 70s and not know Camel, thanks to the wonderful Aris Hampers of WLAV (who seems to still be active with the re-rocking WFFX). Incidentally, today is the thirtieth anniversary of the Frank Zappa Montreux Casino Concert Fire. Smoke on the water, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 15:45:44 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) At 03:53 PM 12/3/01 -0600, Keegstra, Russell wrote: >I think there is a Caravan sized hole in my prog collection. >They seem to have interchanged quite a few members with Camel, >does that imply a style similarity? You couldn't be in Grand >Rapids in the 70s and not know Camel, thanks to the wonderful >Aris Hampers of WLAV (who seems to still be active with the >re-rocking WFFX). The only interchange with Camel was that Caravan's Richard Sinclair spent a stretch in that band during their later and less interesting era, circa '78 or so. (Camel's longtime drummer Andy Ward, incidentally, is now the drummer in both Chrys&themums and the Bevis Frond.) Caravan was an outgrowth of the legendary mid-'60s group the Wylde Flowers - -- who also were Robert Wyatt's first band -- and they also had quite a bit of interchange with Hatfield and the North, which was formed by ex-Caravan members Richard Sinclair, his cousin Dave Sinclair and Phil Miller (not, of course, Scott's brother the green mint candy distributor). Miller later formed National Health with fellow ex-Hatfield Dave Stewart. Like most prog bands, the early albums are the best -- along with those already cited, I like the self-titled debut and IF I COULD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. Of the later records, CUNNING STUNTS is probably the best known, but it's pretty weak -- the follow-up, BLIND DOG AT ST. DUNSTANS, is a bit tighter and has a better group of songs, but I still don't like it as much as the earlier records. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:48:05 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > Caravan was an outgrowth of the legendary mid-'60s group the Wylde Flowers > -- who also were Robert Wyatt's first band -- and they also had quite a bit > of interchange with Hatfield and the North, which was formed by ex-Caravan > members Richard Sinclair, his cousin Dave Sinclair and Phil Miller (not, of > course, Scott's brother the green mint candy distributor). Miller later > formed National Health with fellow ex-Hatfield Dave Stewart. Who, of course, is not the Eurhythmics' Dave Stewart but the Dave Stewart who later played w/Bruford. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:01:08 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) At 04:48 PM 12/3/01 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > >> Caravan was an outgrowth of the legendary mid-'60s group the Wylde Flowers >> -- who also were Robert Wyatt's first band -- and they also had quite a bit >> of interchange with Hatfield and the North, which was formed by ex-Caravan >> members Richard Sinclair, his cousin Dave Sinclair and Phil Miller (not, of >> course, Scott's brother the green mint candy distributor). Miller later >> formed National Health with fellow ex-Hatfield Dave Stewart. > >Who, of course, is not the Eurhythmics' Dave Stewart but the Dave Stewart >who later played w/Bruford. And who did all those cool records with his wife, Barbara Gaskin, in the '80s. Barbara Gaskin had been a member of Hatfield and the North's female auxiliary, the Northettes. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:26:28 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) >Like most prog bands, the early albums are the best -- Not so sure about that. Marillion's latest, ANORAKNOPHOBIA, is their eighth studio album with Steve Hogarth, and the first such I've taken to heart right out of the box. (Incidentally, Marillion also included Andy Ward, for a blink of an eye.) Yes' 90125 found them refreshed, revitalized, and actually spinning gold from that prog-band-goes-pop move which usually reeks of despair and anger. Many seem to think that Genesis hit their peak right at the end of the Gabriel phase, with THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY. Rush's early work is fine enough (I even like what I've heard from the debut), but it's only with their eighth studio album, MOVING PICTURES, that I find them capable of consistent brilliance. In other cases, it's even harder to figure. Early King Crimson, for example, sounds not very much at all like later King Crimson. I'm lead to understand Renaissance is the same way. Points on the grade of the curve, Andy Dear Jack:, I am sitting in a bar on Market St. I'm drunk, well, not quite, but I soon will be. I am here for 2 reasons; I must wait 5 hours for the bus to Denver & lastly but, most importantly, I'm here (drinking) because, of course, because of a woman & what a woman! To be chronological about it: I was sitting on the bus when it took on more passengers at Indianapolis, Indiana -- a perfectly proportioned beautiful, intellectual, passionate, personification of Venus De Milo asked me if the seat beside me was taken!!! I gulped, (I'm drunk) gargled & stammered NO! (Paradox of expression, after all, how can one stammer No!!?) She sat -- I sweated -- She started to speak, I knew it would be generalities, so to tempt her I remained silent. She (her name Patricia) got on the bus at 8 PM (Dark!) I didn't speak until 10 PM -- in the intervening 2 hours I not only of course, determined to make her, but, how to DO IT. I naturally can't quote the conversation verbally, however, I shall attempt to give you the gist of it from 10 PM to 2 AM. Without the slightest preliminaries of objective remarks (what's your name? where are you going? etc.) I plunged into a completely knowing, completely subjective, personal & so to speak "penetrating her core" way of speech; to be shorter (since I'm getting unable to write) by 2 AM I had her swearing eternal love, complete subjectivity to me & immediate satisfaction. I, anticipating even more pleasure, wouldn't allow her to blow me on the bus, instead we played, as they say, with each other. Knowing her supremely perfect being was completely mine (when I'm more coherent, I'll tell you her complete history & psychological reason for loving me) I could conceive of no obstacle to my satisfaction, well "the best laid plans of mice & men go astray" and my nemesis was her sister, the bitch... [--Neal Cassady, from a letter to Jack Kerouac dated March 7, 1947. Complete text at http://www.litkicks.com/Texts/CassadyLetter.html ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:30:29 -0500 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) At 03:46 PM 12/3/2001 -0500, Dana L Paoli wrote: >...that Caravan haven't been mentioned on this list. A search of the >archives gets no results, though I'm not sure how far back escribe goes. >Hard for me to believe. Hey, I just mentioned Caravan last week! Someone on this list made the comparison between them and Gorky's Zygotic Mynci recently, so I downloaded a couple of Caravan tracks to check them out. Tasty stuff - looks like I'll have to spring for Canterbury Tales. Is there a Francoise Hardy expert on-list? If so, what's the best available comp of her stuff? Is her post-mid-70s stuff worth checking out? Tous les self-righteous garcons et les moody filles, MB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:55:51 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Francoise Hardy At 07:30 PM 12/3/01 -0500, Michael Bowen wrote: >Is there a Francoise Hardy expert on-list? If so, what's the best available >comp of her stuff? Is her post-mid-70s stuff worth checking out? As Rick Gagnon will no doubt chime in, very few French singers of the '60s made it into the '70s unscathed -- Hardy's '70s stuff is better than that of her husband, Jacques Dutronc (who took a Neil Diamond-like turn into MOR mush), but it's still not exactly good. Basically, you want the '62-'67 stuff for Vogue Records, and there are several different compilations of that period out there, quite often with those dates in the title, helpfully enough. St. Etienne's Bob Stanley compiled a terrific two-disc set called THE VOGUE YEARS earlier this year that has 50 tracks from 62-67, and it's pretty much definitive, although there's also a four-disc set of the complete recordings from this period out there if you get hooked. Turns out Amazon has THE VOGUE YEARS for an astonishingly cheap price, so hie yourself over: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000056Q81/qid=1007426642/sr=8-1/ref= sr_8_3_1/102-1946950-6282562 Personally, I think Francoise Hardy's got nothing on France Gall (who was perkier and poppier, with an unexpected jazz influence in much of her stuff), but chacun a son gout 'n' stuff... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:28:31 -0500 From: smholt@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage "W. David Barnes" wrote: > I really like 'Little St. Nick' by the Beach Boys but my very > favorite is the Crash Test Dummies doing 'The First Noel'. It was > on an alt-Xmas compilation ('Lumps of Coal'? Something about rust?) > that I have never been able to find...It's a pretty straightforward > reading and just hits all the right notes for me. The compilation is A LUMP OF COAL on First Warning Records, and it's long out of print, but not too hard to find if you're in the habit of checking CD used bins in December like I am. I'm a big fan of Christmas music, with 50-60 CDs and a like number of records, prefer original "rock" songs to traditional carols.. Some of my faves. Anton Barbeau's "Xmas Song" (which finally got a proper CD release this year via Antology 2 on 125 Records) Chris Stamey's "Christmas Time" NRBQ's "Christmas Wish" ... too many to name, really! And I mention this site every year, but www.mistletunes.com is *the* comprehensive guide to cool holiday music! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:56:22 -0600 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] is it possible? (ns) Stewart, re Caravan and Camel >The only interchange with Camel was that Caravan's >Richard Sinclair spent a stretch in that band during >their later and less interesting era, circa '78 or so. Actually, the name I had specifically spotted in both camps was Jan Schelhaas, who did a short stint with each band in the 76-81 time frame, but I don't know how much of a role he played in either one. Russ "Hell, kiddo, you're The Onion; I oughta be nervous about you. After all, an angry god's gonna strike both of us with a bolt of lightning, and we'll wind up side-by-side in hospital beds, silent and dumb as rutabagas, just for being such wiseasses." Harlan Ellison, in a really old Onion interview ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:16:53 EST From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage In a message dated 12/3/01 9:02:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, ocgiii@hotmail.com writes: > I like it > traditional in my house. I'm cornball as hell too. I love Bing Crosby, > Perry Como, Andy Williams, etc. I reminds me of being a kid and > listening to the stuff my dad played. I love choral and organ music. > And I've recently ordered 'Christmas with The George Shearing Quintet'. > He's the original 'comp tape' man, and I'm talking about reel to reel! > > There is one really old Christmas lp that I adored as a kid that you probably have. It was the Harry Simone Chorale? doing "The Little Drummer Boy," along with other traditional songs. At times it seemed almost baroque. I'd like to get that one again, on CD. I came across another from this group a few years back, but it wasn't the original recording I remembered. And, no matter how overexposed she is every holiday season, Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without Karen Carpenter. Mark, trying to remain conscious...I got my mom the Charlotte Church CD she wanted, and gave it to her early. Now I feel like perhaps this was a mistake. I feel like Ren trying to fight the powers of the "happy helmet." I must not give in to her siren-like voice...must REMAIN...IN...CONTROL!!! "Christmas is not only getting too commercial, it's getting too dangerous." (Linus Van Pelt, philosopher, 1965) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:58:14 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage All hail our own Dennis McGreevy's song called...uh, I forget what it's called, but the chorus goes "can I help you, can I help you?" maniacally, just as its author apparently was forced to, in a seasonal stint working retail at some upscale boutique... Also features some wicked guitar arpeggios I think w/slapback echo (it's buried on a cassette in my basement - have to dig it out again, I guess...). I think just about everything else I might name is from one of Steve H's justly renowned Christmas mixes, so I'll let him pick up that ball if he chooses... Death to: That Vince Guaraldi thing with the children's choir. Anything with a children's choir. Anything that's wall-to-wall '80s megashiny synths (I suspect it was the damnable M*nnh*m St*mr*ller I was hearing at Rose's office party the other day). Paul McCartney's icky "Have Yourself a Wonderful Christmas Time" or whatever it's called. The state of Wisconsin has just ruled that it's okay to put up religious ornaments (of various religions) on the state yule tree. Okay - I don't know exactly what the Church of Satan would put there, but it ought to go there, y'think. And hey - those wacky Wahhabi fundamentalist Muslims need to decorate too... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Solipsism is its own reward:: __Crow T. Robot__ np: Meat Beat Manifesto _Actual Sounds & Voices_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:08:18 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Christmas tunage Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > Okay - I don't > know exactly what the Church of Satan would put there, but it ought to go > there, y'think. Haven't you noticed all those pentagrams everywhere? They even hang them from the light poles and sell them in the Christmas sections in the stores. They just euphemistically call them "stars." Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #329 *******************************