From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #295 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, November 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 295 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Mulholland Drive (no spoilers, really) ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Mulholland Drive ["Aaron Milenski" ] [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album ["Pete O." ] [loud-fans] [ns] you learn something new every day [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] lolita times two [Stewart Mason ] RE: [loud-fans] lolita times two [Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com] Re: [loud-fans] lolita times two [Dana L Paoli ] [loud-fans] continental thrifters ["Brandon J. Carder" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mulholland Drive (no spoilers, really) >Okay, this puzzles me; What makes it more voyeuristic than usual >onscreen lovemaking? Is it the fact that it's sapphic? Does feel like >this way during hetero sex scenes? Gay male sex scenes (like, say, >Velvet Goldmine?). No, it's got nothing to do with the genders of the participants. If anything, it's certainly good filmmaking--the feeling is that we're watching two people actually having an intimate moment not meant for viewing, as opposed to two actors doing something purely intended to appeal to the film audience. Of course, the effect is that it actually turned on the male audience more than something more traditional (by Hollywood standards), so we're not trying to guess what Lynch's intent was. *I* felt very uncomfortable during the audition scene, actually. Lynch definitely did an admirable job of creating powerful sexual/romantic situations in this film. The audition scene also happened to be something that would have played uncut if this had ever been shown on TV, which shows that even within certain limits there's a lot of power to the way Lynch directed and to Watts' acting. Maybe this was the point, but I thoguht that the constant sex scenes in WILD AT HEART had absolutely the opposite effect; they distanced the viewer from what was happening on the screen. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:12:01 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mulholland Drive >I think some theorists of >fiction note that one way to construct a convincing reality is a >superfluity of detail: in the real world, we notice, take in, and >sometimes weirdly linger and circle around things of little or no >significance, with no particular connection to anything else. Why >shouldn't movies work along similar lines? (And who says such things might >not be followed up later, in other films?) I've often argued that the two-ish hour standard for film has limited the art form in many, many ways. It's arguable that a viewer gets more satisfaction out of a long running TV show, due to the connection with the characters, long-term character development, knowledge of past events, long-running storylines, etc... than from even the best film. What just may be the finest achievement in all of film, Kieslowski's DECALOGUE, is both longer and shorter than your typical film. Each one-hour film is complete on its own and as tight as can be, and should open any viewer's mind up to the thought that a great film can be shorter, not longer, than the standard. The full ten-hour collection of films in the DECALOGUE also serves the function of putting together some minor pieces (and leaving plenty of loose ends) in the context of a length far beyond the standard. On the other hand, the CD era has convinced me that the 40-minute rock and roll LP standard is, with some obvious exceptions, far superior to the lengthier alternative. As to the comment about following up in future films, that's one of the problems I have viewing MULHOLLAND DRIVE. As a TV pilot, it was intended to be the beginning of a long-running series of events, and that's a huge part of why the last half hour of the film was unsatisfying to me. Despite the lack of conventional narrative, it did try to tie up a lot of ends that I think should have either been left loose, or at least did not necessarily have to relate to each other. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:33:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape Swap Review: Isomorphism (Jeff Norman) - --- Jeff Brenneman wrote: > Tape Swap Review: Isomorphism (Jeff Norman) > > The Loud Family  Were For The Dark ` Cool, a Loud Family song I havent > heard. As expected, wonderful! > It's a Badfinger cover from the excellent "Come And Get It" tribute album from a few years ago. - - Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:22:23 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] string theory (ns) Someone sold their collection of everything that Journey ever recorded to my local used record store. "Don't bother looking through the pile" said the owner, but I always have to check. Somewhere in the middle I found the first (not the *real* first) album by String Driven Thing. And it's great, I loved it, I laughed, I cried... A very strange, schizo album that veers between rock and folk and back again, and sounds like a compilation. I swear, '72 was a very good year. In a way this record reminds me of "Ram" as recorded by, say, Fairport Convention, but I'm not sure that I could prove my case in court. I checked allmusic, and they seem to think that Machine That Cried is the one to get. But I kind of like all the folk elements on the first album, and I read elsewhere that Machine is more rock. Anyone have any thoughts? I love the "Famous Charisma Label" label with the Mad Hatter. I hope it's reproduced on the CD. - --dana np: The Dandy Warhols/"13 Tales..." which is holding up disturbingly well. Damn those talented poseurs. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:12:15 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album This is one of the funniest mainstream music reviews I've read in a long time: http://www.suntimes.com/output/show/cst-ftr-brit06.html Aaron, not surprised that the first fan quoted is rushing to buy the thing at Wal-Mart, where terrorists shop. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:27:32 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album This bit made my day: > On dkrzyston's list of all-time favorite albums, "Britney" comes in > at No. 11, based solely on the strength of first single "I'm a Slave 4 U." Ah, to be so young again that I could only think of ten albums that could possibly be better than one I hadn't even heard yet... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:59:59 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album Aaron sez: >This is one of the funniest mainstream music reviews I've read in a long >time: > >http://www.suntimes.com/output/show/cst-ftr-brit06.html Where the people who manage Britney miscalculate is in thinking they're going to sell men outside her teenybopper demographic copies of Britney's albums. No matter how many barely-legal come-ons they put on the album, or how scantily she's clad on the cover, it's not going to sell me a CD unless the music's better.* I mean, I've never bought an album by the infinitely more talented and jaw-droppingly oglesome Shania Twain, so how is Britney going to sell me a CD? Maybe they haven't figured out that looking is free... In other Britney news, this past summer Regal Cinemas has changed its pre-movie Pepsi ad from that frightening little Pepsi Girl (in a western-themed twofer combining product pushing with the "don't smoke, don't talk on the cell phone, look for the emergency exits" warning) to the long version of Britney's TV commercial for said soft drink. This was a *huge* improvement. I no longer have to cover my eyes *before* the movie starts. Well, unless they're running the SHALLOW HAL trailer. In other random thoughts, I've often wondered if Coke and Pepsi might realize enormous cost savings by discontinuing advertising altogether. Everyone in the US, if not the world, has had the opportunity to taste both, so it's most likely that Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, Britney Spears, and Cal Ripken Jr. aren't really going to sway people more than their own taste buds. later, Miles *though I'll concur somewhat with Bradley about "Baby, One More Time" being an ably constructed pop single, and I'll wholeheartedly agree with aaron mandel that disposable dance-pop is way better than the dreary, portentous Sons of Pearl Jam that occupy the few non-dance/R&B spaces in the top 40. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:03:51 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album Anyone who's seen the advertising for Britney's upcoming "Live From Vegas" special will at least concede there's cultural greatness in her sexy adaptation of Elvis' legendary jumpsuit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:30:49 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] Rule Britney (ns) No, I'm not going to say she rules. And I'm not going to be buying her new CD. But, I was interested enough to check out the sound samples. I don't really hear it as any worse than anything else that's out there. There's a cover of "I Love Rock and Roll" which is kind of funny. What struck me most is how much she sounds like Michael Jackson on some of the tracks. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album - --- glenn mcdonald wrote: > This bit made my day: > > > On dkrzyston's list of all-time favorite albums, "Britney" comes in > > at No. 11, based solely on the strength of first single "I'm a Slave 4 U." > > Ah, to be so young again that I could only think of ten albums that could > possibly be better than one I hadn't even heard yet... Maybe he/she has only heard 10 other albums. If that was true in my case, it would definitely be #11. - - Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:12:08 -0800 From: "Douglas Stanley" Subject: [loud-fans] I said SCRAM The weather here in Southern California offers few chances for pizza delivery boys to take their lives into their own hands while speeding a pie to your door. For that reason, Friday nights just aren't as fun. Not being able to "play God" left me empty and wanting this past Friday, so I decided to fill up my life with a tour of early 20th century architecture - Los Angeles style. Braving the previous reports regarding the safety of driving, I hopped into my gas-guzzling hulk of an SUV and headed north. First stop: 630 S. Broadway - The Palace Theatre Coincidentally, the Palace (built circa 1911 as the local branch of the Orpheum vaudeville circuit) was hosting a little get-together lovingly referred to as "Scramarama". Scheduled to appear: one Scott Miller. The Palace looks like it was a beautiful venue at one point, but those days are long past. Being located in downtown LA sure doesn't help. The fact that Scott took the stage at 10:00pm (still early by LA standards) meant that there would be ample opportunity to find a good seat for his set. Another plus that deserves mentioning is that they had Redhook on tap for $3. Mr. Miller appeared shortly after 10:00 dressed in black with his trademark Telecaster slung over his shoulder. Since this was a solo gig and I had expected an acoustic performance. Instead we were treated to Scott in all his electric glory. I also was looking forward to his patented "big hair", only to find a more streamlined, well-shorn Scott. The set: - - An aborted Italian song from Scott's youth - - A song from Nico/Jackson Browne (I don't know the title) - - Dee-pression - - Way Too Helpful - - Carol and Alison - - Either "Saturday's Gone" or "Saturday's Child" or both (I went to use the restroom and was detained by some guy who couldn't believe that Scott Miller was actually the guy from Game Theory). Maybe someone else knows which song he played. http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=A168096 http://members.tripod.com/~colli/debut/saturdays.html - - Inverness - - Tell Me When It's Over (Dream Syndicate) - - Just Gone Encore: - - 24 - - Like a Girl Jesus Some song with the line "tongue of fire", but it wasn't Dylan. - - Dripping With Looks All in all, it was a nice performance. A few times, Scott had technical problems with his effects box, causing the guitar volume to fluctuate. This culminated in the last half of "Dripping..." being done a cappella. However, both his voice and fingers were in fine form. A short conversation with Scott revealed that this is a one-off gig and not meant to be a return to public performance, but he did seem to enjoy himself. While he was playing, there was an air of reverence in the room, with most people thoroughly entertained. I would imagine that your average SCRAM magazine reader has pretty good taste. Lord knows they're an attractive bunch. Scott was followed by some crappy psychedelic band from San Diego (that's redundant, isn't it?) that I paid no attention to. The band in the slot prior to Scott was called Red Planet and they were quite good. I made the mistake of telling their singer that I liked their set and ended up talking/drinking with him the rest of the night. Fans of affected British punk would do well to seek them out. http://www.redplanetrock.com/rpmain.htm Doug S. SoCal Bureau Chief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:39:42 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] [ns] you learn something new every day I was listening to the BBC World Service, where a business reporter just quoted the "afternoon gold fix." So the Church's GOLD AFTERNOON FIX is a play on words? Is "gold fix" a commonplace in the world of commodities, or is this something you'd only hear in Britain and Australia? Funniest moment of the morning: before I left the house, Melissa had on one of the morning shows, and a son of Mohammed Reza Shah (the last ruling Shah of Iran) was being interviewed. He complained about the "corruption" of Iran's current rulers. It's gonna be a Buffy-ful evening -- the second FX rerun is Faith's debut, and then the musical episode... wondering if anyone pitched Cabaret Voltaire's "24-24" or even "I Wanna Be Sedated" as theme music for Fox's _24_, (which starts tonight as the musical BUFFY is ending), Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:11 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] lolita times two BTW, for those Lolita Nation CD seekers out there, a copy of the CD "with 2 minor scuffs that don't affect play" went for under $35.00 on eBay yesterday. Signs of the weakening economy, or just a fluke? I don't know. Also, Britney is on Letterman tonight, but you knew that. Will Dave's sexual frustration manifest itself via leers or insults? Will she wear her Elvis outfit. Will she have sideburns with her Elvis outfit? Will they be fake or real. Sadly, I'll never find out. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:29:14 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] lolita times two At 04:19 PM 11/6/01 -0500, Dana L Paoli wrote: >BTW, for those Lolita Nation CD seekers out there, a copy of the CD "with >2 minor scuffs that don't affect play" went for under $35.00 on eBay >yesterday. Signs of the weakening economy, or just a fluke? I don't >know. The days of LN going for astronomical amounts on eBay look to be pretty much over. I check occasionally, and not only do there seem to be a lot more copies on there (I think people have heard how rare the disc is), but I don't think I've seen one go for more than thirty or forty dollars in over a year. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:41:08 -0500 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] lolita times two > Also, Britney is on Letterman tonight, but you knew that. Will Dave's > sexual frustration manifest itself via leers or insults? > Will she wear > her Elvis outfit. Will she have sideburns with her Elvis > outfit? Will > they be fake or real. Sadly, I'll never find out. I'd like to see Britney as the fat, twinkie and PB&Banana sandwich eatin' Elvis. Oh, yeah - with REAL sideburns. -julianne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:11:32 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] lolita times two I've seen Lolita go for big bucks not that long ago. Oddly, the price of Real Nighttime seems to have crashed, while Distortion of Glory and especially Big Shot Chronicles are on the rise. Two Steps remains unpopular. And no one wants vinyl. Your eBay reporter, signing off. - --dana On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:29:14 -0700 Stewart Mason writes: > At 04:19 PM 11/6/01 -0500, Dana L Paoli wrote: > >BTW, for those Lolita Nation CD seekers out there, a copy of the CD > "with > >2 minor scuffs that don't affect play" went for under $35.00 on > eBay > >yesterday. Signs of the weakening economy, or just a fluke? I > don't > >know. > > The days of LN going for astronomical amounts on eBay look to be > pretty > much over. I check occasionally, and not only do there seem to be a > lot > more copies on there (I think people have heard how rare the disc > is), but > I don't think I've seen one go for more than thirty or forty dollars > in > over a year. > > Stewart > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:51:10 -0800 From: "Brandon J. Carder" Subject: [loud-fans] continental thrifters At Paul Bunyun's Thrift Store in sunny Fort Bragg: special on short-lived, mediocre eighties acts- Lone Justice _Shelter_ Blancmange _Mange Tout_ Both records on vinyl for one dollar apiece any takers? np Okutama Story "kon" Isogawa Shin-Ichi (fully japanese cd from above palaise de thrift purchased for interesting cover.) Turns out to be traditional atmospheric Appalachian mountain music with emphatically untraditional time signatures. Some the finest instrumentals I've heard since early Tortoise and Arial M. Anyone well-versed in japanese music knows the lowdown? Cypress House/QED/Lost Coast Press Publishers of Exotic Paper Airplanes by Thay Yang and Tales From the Mountain by Pulitzer Prize nominee, Miguel Torga We don't rent pigs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:45:35 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape Swap Review: Isomorphism (Jeff Norman) On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jeff Brenneman wrote: > The Caribbean  Front Row At The Rodeo ` From the title of the track, I > expected the next big thing in alt-country (a genre which Ive come to > love!) I was very pleasantly surprised by what The Caribbean (of course > another band that Ive never heard of) delivered. GREAT TRACK! I'm glad you weren't too disappointed that this track contains no pedal steel. I strongly recommend _Verse by Verse_ by this band, if you liked this track - their self-titled EP from last year is also worth checking out. The Caribbean arose from the ashes of two bands - The Townies and Smart Went Crazy, about whom I know little. The Townies' track on the other side, whose provenance Stewart asked about, is from a tribute album to Tom Rapp and Pearls Before Swine that Aaron Mandel sent me in my own CD swap, entitled _For the Dead in Space_. > (Bonus Unlisted Track)  Poodle Man? ` Sounds very much like The Residents. > Whoever it is, it rocks! Joe correctly named this - I just couldn't resist putting this little bit on at the end. > The Idle Race  Imposters of Lifes Magazine ` This is what music should be! > >From the opening riff, I was hooked (pun intended.) I must find more from > The Idle Race. Hmm...good luck there. They have two tracks on the (indispensable) Nuggets 2 box set - but the rest of their output is, I believe, very hard to find. Turns out this version - which I got on a tape swap from Stewart (him again) - is a demo on the version that's on the Nuggets set. Stewart couldn't recall where it came from - so I guess we'll just consider it rare. > excellent. Although, Jeff listed this was from the CD, I could swear it > sounds SLIGHTLY different(?!) Zumpano does have any release, dont they? How It's from the CD - must be my tape! If you're asking whether Zumpano has any other releases, yes: _Look What the Rookie Did_. If you like this one, you'll like that one, i think. > The Wrens  Ruth ` I love this song! I hear a little Weezer in the chorus. > Is the rest of their stuff as good as this track?! Yes. Of course, I'm biased - I'm always trying to sell the Wrens on this list. Again, somewhat hard to find: I think only their second CD _Secaucus_ is in print, which I think is their best. Their first one, _Silver_, finds them a bit too Pixies-ish but is still an excellent CD (source of "Ruth"). THey also have an EP, _Abbott 1135_, and a track or two on a lame pop-punk compilation called _You'll Never Eat Fast Food Again_. Rumors persist of a split single on Milwaukee-based label No Karma - I tend to get all the label's press releases, so if it ever is actually released (the band is notorious for taking its time...), I'll probably be praising it skyward on the list. > Ivory Library  Black-eyed Dog ` Beautiful. I love it! Reminds me of one of > my faves, The Revolutionary Army Of The Infant Jesus. Jeff, you mention that > this was from a cassette only release. Any CDs? Don't think they're still available, but they did release two CDs: _Dissolve_ (which sanded down too many rough edges) and _Parasite_. I should probably get off my ass and exploit my tangential connection to the band (my brother for a time did some work with IL's songwriter) to see if they can make CD-Rs for me.... So: tell me about The Revolutionary Army of I'm Tired Typing This Long Band Name. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Californians invented the concept of the life-style. ::This alone warrants their doom. __Don DeLillo, WHITE NOISE__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:47:27 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] further diplaying pop culture ignorance Okay, someone on here must know what that ubiquitous dance song is that goes, "Get up, put the body in motion." I seem to hear it in commercials, stores, etc., everywhere, but I don't know who or what it is. Jen np: Slot- "Fiver" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:49:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] string theory (ns) On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > I love the "Famous Charisma Label" label with the Mad Hatter. I hope > it's reproduced on the CD. Old farts who bought Genesis albums in the '70s know it well... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. ::That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! __Thomas Pynchon, VINELAND__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:50:50 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] further diplaying pop culture ignorance On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, jenny grover wrote: > Okay, someone on here must know what that ubiquitous dance song is > that goes, "Get up, put the body in motion." I seem to hear it in > commercials, stores, etc., everywhere, but I don't know who or what it > is. I assumed it was Fatboy Slim for a long time, but it's not: it's the Wiseguys, and it's called "Start The Commotion". a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:51:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Anyone who's seen the advertising for Britney's upcoming "Live From Vegas" > special will at least concede there's cultural greatness in her sexy > adaptation of Elvis' legendary jumpsuit. That's an unusual usage of "cultural" there... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Being young, carefree, having your whole life ahead of you, ::dancing the night away to celebrate... ::oh, and the untimely death of Jackson Pollock. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:52:19 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > In other random thoughts, I've often wondered if Coke and Pepsi might > realize enormous cost savings by discontinuing advertising > altogether. Everyone in the US, if not the world, has had the opportunity > to taste both, so it's most likely that Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, > Britney Spears, and Cal Ripken Jr. aren't really going to sway people more > than their own taste buds. Negativland made almost exactly this point in their notes to the (WARNING: FORBIDDEN TITLE ABOUT TO BE NAMED!!) _Dyspepsi_ CD a few years back... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. ::I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! __"raus"__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:38:00 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album At 05:52 PM 11/6/01 -0600, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > >> In other random thoughts, I've often wondered if Coke and Pepsi might >> realize enormous cost savings by discontinuing advertising >> altogether. Everyone in the US, if not the world, has had the opportunity >> to taste both, so it's most likely that Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, >> Britney Spears, and Cal Ripken Jr. aren't really going to sway people more >> than their own taste buds. > >Negativland made almost exactly this point in their notes to the (WARNING: >FORBIDDEN TITLE ABOUT TO BE NAMED!!) _Dyspepsi_ CD a few years back... I dunno, marketing types and soda historians usually point to Moxie's choice to discontinue advertising at a time when it was one of the most popular soft drinks in the country as one of the more colossally boneheaded moves in corporate history. Although it could certainly be argued that suddenly everyone who drank Moxie took a swig of the stuff and said "Holy crap! What were we thinking? Let's go down to the drugstore and see if we can find something that actually tastes good!" That doesn't explain why folks in New Hampshire are still so fond of it, but then, nothing explains folks in New Hampshire. It's often argued that advertisements, especially for products like soft drinks, sell lifestyles more than they sell actual products. (Look at the difference between Mountain Dew back in the days when it had a down-home hillbilly image, right down to letting individual bottlers put their own names and messages on the bottles, and today, when it's marketed exclusively to teenage extreme sports doodz. Same product, totally different demographics.) Pepsi only made inroads against Coke in the early '60s, when it stopped trying to compete on price and repositioned itself as "The Choice of a New Generation," which has been the basic sales point of its advertising ever since. Meanwhile (especially since the New Coke fiasco), Coke stands for tradition, family and stability, as in those really quite good "Life Tastes Good" ads they've been running for the last few months. The Pepsi/Coke advertising split has less to do with taste than it does with "edgy, young and new" against "familiar, solid and comfortable." It doesn't have much to do with taste because, really, most people will drink either Coke or Pepsi quite happily. Yes, I know there are diehards for one or the other -- as often noted, I think Pepsi tastes really nasty - -- but how many times have you heard this exchange at a fast food place: Customer: ...and a Coke. Cashier: Pepsi okay? Customer: Whatever. And while I would never drink a Pepsi, I'm just as likely to drink a root beer or a ginger ale or an orange soda as I am a Coke. Market share is a highly elastic thing, and if you're not out there flogging it (erm, the product, I mean), all but your most loyal customers will forget you even exist. Coke and Pepsi would be screwed if they cut their advertising budgets. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:40:09 -0000 From: "md.robbins" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tape Swap Review: Isomorphism (Jeff Norman) Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote- > On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jeff Brenneman wrote: > > > The Idle Race  Imposters of Lifes Magazine ` This is what music should be! > > >From the opening riff, I was hooked (pun intended.) I must find more from > > The Idle Race. > > Hmm...good luck there. They have two tracks on the (indispensable) Nuggets > 2 box set - but the rest of their output is, I believe, very hard to find. > Turns out this version - which I got on a tape swap from Stewart (him > again) - is a demo on the version that's on the Nuggets set. Stewart > couldn't recall where it came from - so I guess we'll just consider it > rare. > As a big Idle Race fan the definitive [and now probably deleted] CD comp I'd recommend hunting down would be 'Back To The Story', UK released in '96, on the EMI Premier label, inc all 3 lps [ inc the 3rd non Lynne duffer] and a few unreleased alt. takes, though curiously only one version of this track [which was originally a single/non lp track] which does puzzle me. Worth hunting down just for a handful of glorious tracks from the 1st [and best] lp alone but definitely NOT for the post Lynne band versions of 'In The Summertime' and 'Neanderthal Man', by which time desperation had clearly taken hold. md. np - Tyranny and Mutation. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:47:50 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album In a message dated 11/6/01 4:36:49 PM, flamingo@rt66.com writes: << .........Meanwhile (especially since the New Coke fiasco), Coke stands for tradition, family and stability, as in those really quite good "Life Tastes Good" ads they've been running for the last few months. The Pepsi/Coke advertising split has less to do with taste than it does with "edgy, young and new" against "familiar, solid and comfortable." >> interesting.... Now, can you explain to me the HORRIBLE 7-up commercials.... first with the "taste test" where things like antifreeze and sour milk are proven inferior to 7-up..... and the latest with the horrible crash on the Nascar-type racetrack??? Just to whom are THOSE things supposed to appeal? Frankly, for a "lemon-lime" drink, I've always preferred Sprite. Left ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:55:30 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album Now, can you explain to me the HORRIBLE 7-up commercials.... first with the "taste test" where things like antifreeze and sour milk are proven inferior to 7-up..... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? I thought that that one was kind of funny. Why do you think it's horrible? - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:58:01 -0500 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album >Now, can you explain to me the HORRIBLE 7-up commercials.... > >first with the "taste test" where things like antifreeze and sour milk >are >proven inferior to 7-up..... >>>>>>>>>>. Ah, just as I hit the send button, my wife informs me that there's more than one of those "taste test" commercials, and that some are less funny than others. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:04:18 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album In a message dated 11/6/01 5:02:41 PM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << Ah, just as I hit the send button, my wife informs me that there's more than one of those "taste test" commercials, and that some are less funny than others. >> hahahahahahahahaha.... THAT was gonna be my exact response to your first email.....I think there have been at least THREE in that format..... Left ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:30:25 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 LeftyZ@aol.com wrote: > Just to whom are THOSE things supposed to appeal? me! i think Orlando Jones is perfect for them, and the whole campaign is quite entertaining. yes, they're ads that take the form of parodies of ads, and are thus conceptually loathsome, but they're funny and i'm no danger of starting to drink 7-Up. so they're jake with me. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:39:07 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > In other random thoughts, I've often wondered if Coke and Pepsi might > realize enormous cost savings by discontinuing advertising > altogether. Everyone in the US, if not the world, has had the opportunity > to taste both, so it's most likely that Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, > Britney Spears, and Cal Ripken Jr. aren't really going to sway people more > than their own taste buds. Economists have debated for years over whether Coke and Pepsi (or insert a multitude of other industries) if they discontinued advertising. The issue is whether advertising actually creates demand that otherwise would not have been there, or it simply shifts demand around from one company to another. As you note, there is no information in a Coke or Pepsi commercial, so if they're simply trading around their own customers, then yeah, Coke and Pepsi would save a lot (something like 150 million per year for Coke Classic alone). If the advertising is generating new demand however, then it's not so clear. What is clear, though, is that increasing your advertising will increase your sales. This leads to a prisoner's dilemma problem. Even if it's true that both Coke and Pepsi would be better off by eliminating advertising, they would never stay in that situation, since there is a clear incentive to advertising given that your competitor isn't. One interesting case is the self-agreed ban on television advertising for alcohol. They can spin it as a matter of public health, but it probably had as much to do with saving money on advertising. With sales of hard alcohol dropping, they recently decided to end their self-imposed ban (believing, now, that advertising would create demand instead of simply shifting it around). The major networks, though, in need of points with "media watchdog" politicians, have agreed not to accept advertising for hard alcohol. Always ready to contribute to a pop culture list, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:16:15 -0700 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album At 07:58 PM 11/6/01 -0500, Dana L Paoli wrote: >>Now, can you explain to me the HORRIBLE 7-up commercials.... >> >>first with the "taste test" where things like antifreeze and sour milk >>are >>proven inferior to 7-up..... >>>>>>>>>>>. > >Ah, just as I hit the send button, my wife informs me that there's more >than one of those "taste test" commercials, and that some are less funny >than others. I dunno, even the really gross ones -- which clearly are supposed to appeal to 12 year old boys of all ages and genders -- have a certain giddy quality that keeps them just this side of completely icky. Like when the taste test competitor is "bile" and Jones says with a certain quiet pride, "Fresh squeezed this morning!" I think that's really funny. Yes, I am 12. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:03:32 -0500 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Just in case anyone had high hopes for the new Britney Spears album >In other random thoughts, I've often wondered if Coke and Pepsi might >realize enormous cost savings by discontinuing advertising >altogether. Everyone in the US, if not the world, has had the opportunity >to taste both, so it's most likely that Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, >Britney Spears, and Cal Ripken Jr. aren't really going to sway people more >than their own taste buds. Negativland propose just such a thing- a cessation of all soda-pop advertising- in the liner notes of their album "Dispepsia". It comes off as a sort of Jonathan Swift, "Modest Proposal" type thing. (the other) Dan ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #295 *******************************