From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #273 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, October 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 273 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books [dmw ] [loud-fans] RE: Burma single ["Brett Milano" ] Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books [Tim_Walters@digidesign.com] Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] smithery [jenny grover ] Re: [loud-fans] (The Angels Wanna Wear) My White Chucks (non-religious content) [Don Tillman ] Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) [Dan McCarthy ] [loud-fans] Preflyte (NS) ["West Moran" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:28:17 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books >I'm not much of a Science-Fiction fan either, though I love a handful >of writers who wrote within the genre; most of them were there for >lack of a better pigeonhole, really. Philip K. Dick's musings on the >nature of reality, R.A. Lafferty's really weird and often profound >tall tales, Manly Wade Wellman's folksy mountain lore, the kind of >stuff you love to read aloud; Theodore Sturgeon and Fritz Leiber's >weird fiction (as opposed to *science* fiction...the kind of stuff >that would turn up in Weird Tales) is about well-delineated people, >not machines or cyphers. At the risk of appearing monomaniacal, I feel compelled to point out that every one of those authors except for Wellman (whose career came too early) has won at least one Hugo award, and was read only by SF fans for years before being discovered outside the genre. (Note that the Hugo is a fan award, the Nebula being the more "literary" writers' award.) All are mainstays of the SF canon, not some kind of fringy exception. I can understand why people don't like SF, or only like the occasional book, but I can't understand why people cling to a stereotypical view of SF ("machines and ciphers") that hasn't had any validity for at least fifty years, and never had that much in the first place; nor why they refuse the pay the genre the minimal courtesy of judging it by its best examples. No one would claim that Raymond Chandler didn't really write mysteries just because he concentrated on his characters and settings as much as on crime, but the equivalent claim is downright fashionable when it comes to SF. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:51:04 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > I can understand why people don't like SF, or only like the occasional book, but > I can't understand why people cling to a stereotypical view of SF ("machines and > ciphers") that hasn't had any validity for at least fifty years, and never had > that much in the first place; nor why they refuse the pay the genre the minimal > courtesy of judging it by its best examples. No one would claim that Raymond > Chandler didn't really write mysteries just because he concentrated on his > characters and settings as much as on crime, but the equivalent claim is > downright fashionable when it comes to SF. Oh, I think anything marketed (and i think that is the key) as "genre" literature, regardless of genre (sf/mystery/romance/horror/whatever) is subject to similar snobbery from a great many institutions. Eg., the _Washington Post_ will generally only review a 'speculative fiction' novel in its monthly SF feature section, *unless* the book doesn't say "science fiction" or "fantasy" on the spine (e.g. _House of Leaves_, _Infinite Jest_, etc.) or unless it's by someone critically recognized as a 'real author' (Kurt Vonnegut and damned few others) -- but this is equally true of mystery/suspense offerings -- I think the recent re-issue of some long out-of-print Dashiell Hammett stuff got treated like a "real" book, but that's very definitely the exception, not the rule. the same snobbery often seems to apply to anything derived from a creative culture that was popularist, rather than exclusivist, any time in this century, regardless of the level of technical sophistication or artistic ambition. Eg., still plenty of places around that consider "classical" music serious, "pop" music trivial -- and there are plenty that still try to shoehorn "jazz" into "pop!" i aint' defending these viewpoints nohow -- they're historically untenable, and are highly unreliable crap filters -- but i think more than the sf fans in the audience can bristle about them. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:05:29 -0400 From: "Brett Milano" Subject: [loud-fans] RE: Burma single The TAANG! reissue of _Forget Mission of Burma_ makes vague mention of Clint Connely and Roger miller pairing up at some point to answer Pearl Jam's lifting of the album title _Vs._ with a single entitled _Ten_ Did this ever happen? Details? Yes. The single was released under the name The Wrong Pipe in March 1995. The songs are "Blue Story" by Conley and "Kuchkah Tay Zod" by Miller. ("Ten" was just a name they attached to the record and doesn't relate to the songs). Don't think there were too many copies pressed. The songs are pretty Burma-type, but the sound of the disc is much more low-fi, with them overdubbing the percussion. They even played one show behind the single, at the Middle East...To a lot of people's chagrin (esp. mine), they went onstage around 9:30, before most of us had shown up. Ah, nostalgia...Now I'm just living in hope of Salem 66 getting back together. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:07:08 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books >Oh, I think anything marketed (and i think that is the key) as "genre" >literature, regardless of genre (sf/mystery/romance/horror/whatever) is >subject to similar snobbery from a great many institutions. Snobbery, certainly. But when a mystery crosses over, the haughty claim is something like "it's a mystery, but it's good anyway." With science fiction, it's often "this isn't really science fiction--it's about people." At least, that's what I've seen. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:45:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Books, books, books On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 Tim_Walters@digidesign.com wrote: > that much in the first place; nor why they refuse the pay the genre the > minimal courtesy of judging it by its best examples. No one would claim > that Raymond Chandler didn't really write mysteries just because he > concentrated on his characters and settings as much as on crime, but the > equivalent claim is downright fashionable when it comes to SF. As an SF fan, you're not doubt familiar with (SF writer Theodore) Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. Herewith, 2 Fs' Addendum to Sturgeon's Law: The reputation of "serious" genres is judged on the 10%; the reputation of "popular" genres by the 90%. Like, when I say I like rock, I get this look, like "how can you like that Korn crap?" - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::SCENE 2: ::Aunt Fritzi applies lipstick in the mirror. In the next room, Sluggo ::removes his ever-present cap and blows his nose in a red handkerchief. ::Nancy enters the room and accuses Sluggo of stealing the donuts that ::Aunt Fritzi made for her. Sluggo looks at the clock, which reads 8:54, ::and says he'd better hurry or he'll be late for his trombone lesson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:47:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: Burma single On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Brett Milano wrote: > Yes. The single was released under the name The Wrong Pipe in March 1995. > The songs are "Blue Story" by Conley and "Kuchkah Tay Zod" by Miller. ("Ten" > was just a name they attached to the record and doesn't relate to the > songs). Don't think there were too many copies pressed. The songs are pretty > Burma-type, but the sound of the disc is much more low-fi, with them > overdubbing the percussion. They even played one show behind the single, at > the Middle East...To a lot of people's chagrin (esp. mine), they went > onstage around 9:30, before most of us had shown up. I remember reading a review of this when it came out (in _Option_, probably), immediately whipping out my checkbook and sending off a check to the address given for the record company...and having the whole thing come back a few weeks later as incorrectly addressed. Did some research; never came up with anything...never seen the record (not here in Milwaukee). Grrr. Aaargh. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Time provides the rope, but love will tie the slipknot, ::and I will be the chair you kick away. __Stephin Merritt__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Fat Girl Has anyone seen this movie yet? Apparently, there's a big spoiler at the end, and I want to know what it is, since I won't be seeing it. Please send me the answer *off-list*. Spoiler, J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:33:59 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] smithery This may interest some of you: Elliott Smith- Fri 11/09/01 Los Angeles, CA Wiltern Theatre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Tillman Subject: Re: [loud-fans] (The Angels Wanna Wear) My White Chucks (non-religious content) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:44:01 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com If you've ever been a fan of Converse All Stars, (the old style, not the space shoes of now...gack) you probably know they are becoming like hen's teeth. I'm sure there's some bizarre story to this. What I could piece together is that the company filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy at the beginning of the the year. (Huh? Converse going bankrupt? How is that possible? It's not like those shoes are expensive or difficult to make. And it's not like they're unpopular. And it's not like there's any competition; when somebody goes into a shop to buy a pair of Chuckie Tees the chances are pretty slim that they'd be drawn to the Nike's at four times the price.) Apparently the company performed some stupid business dealings, bought a company or some such and got into a big dept, closed down their plant, filed for bankruptcy and announced that they were only going to import the shoes. Since then it appears that the company has been bought out by some people who care and the Chuckies are going back into production. A Google search for the obvious stuff will give you some pieces of the story as well as lots of places to buy the shoes. I don't know any links with the full story though. -- Don n.w. -- White Chucks - -- Don Tillman Palo Alto, California, USA don@till.com http://www.till.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:48:03 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] New Order The new New Order is very very good listening. Some tracks remind me of songs from "Low-Life," but different in that they seem bigger, slicker. Partly it is the advances in recording technology and budgets I'm sure, but regardless, the band's sound is more in your face. Imagine "Low-Life" as a faded red Volkswagen Karmann Ghia stock hardtop. Nice. Some tracks on "Get Ready" are more like a Karmann Ghia convertible with a fresh red paintjob, dual Weber carbs, Blaupunkt CD stereo and Pirelli tires. How's that for a description? Kind of like when Andy Partridge described "Oranges and Lemons" just before its release as a "slick, psychedelic dragster." Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:32:35 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Square Pegs People.com (there was a link on AOL) is doing one of those "where are they now" things, including the stars of early eighties sitcom "Square Pegs." They mention where all the female stars are today, but what about the guy who played Johnny Slash? (drove the Day-Glo Nash Metropolitan) A favorite moment of that show was a scene in the high school language lab. Instead of listening to his French homework, JS is playing the B-52's "Wild Planet." My hero. He's probably about 35, bitter, and working at Foot Locker or something. Mark np: Slowdive "Souvlaki" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:41:56 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Square Pegs At 01:32 AM 10/18/01 EDT, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: >People.com (there was a link on AOL) is doing one of those "where are they >now" things, including the stars of early eighties sitcom "Square Pegs." >They mention where all the female stars are today, but what about the guy >who played Johnny Slash? (drove the Day-Glo Nash Metropolitan) A favorite >moment of that show was a scene in the high school language lab. Instead of >listening to his French homework, JS is playing the B-52's "Wild Planet." My >hero. > >He's probably about 35, bitter, and working at Foot Locker or something. Actually, the actor, Merritt Butrick, died of AIDS in about 1988 or 1989. Makes working at Foot Locker seem downright appealing. Stewart "Men: We drank a lot of beer, then we stole 700 lbs. of explosives" --headline at www.obscurestore.com (Or, as we called it in Portales, NM: Tuesday) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:57:19 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) If I'm not too late, let me throw in two of my favourite sci-fi authors, Steve Aylett and Jonathan Lethem (who actually isn't always a sci-fi author). The former hails from England and is probably what you'd get if you crossed Mark Leyner with William Gibson- frantically- paced cyberpunk laced with biting social commentary and an absolutely off-the-wall sense of humour. I recommend the now out-of-print "Bigot Hall" or, failing that, "Slaughtermatic". Jonathan Lethem wrote a great sci-fi detective novel called "Gun, With Occasional Music" that effectively blends the style of Raymond Chandler with that of Philip K. Dick. If you're not particularly in the sci-fi mood, I would then suggest you check out Lethem's "Motherless Brooklyn", another detective novel of a sort, whose protagonist has Tourette's Syndrome. Not as cardboard a subject as you might think; it is handled quite deftly, and the character is one of the more believable ones I've come across in modern fiction. Lethem's got a great sense of humour but also manages to imbue his creations with a realism that you wouldn't think likely considering his topics and settings. (the other) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:07:37 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) >And of course, any time crime fiction shows up on-list, I have to bring up >Donald E. Westlake and LAwrence Block, particularly their Dortmunder >(Westlake) and Rhodenbarr (Block) series. Don't be dissuaded by the string Agreed. The Bernie Rhodenbarr books are great fun. The only criticism I have of them is the same criticism you voice later in your post vis-a-vis the Nero Wolfe novels- namely, you read one, you read 'em all, plot-wise. In both cases, I don't really care, because I read them for the fascinating characters, and could care less who the murderer is. May I also suggest- though you've probably already read it, Stewart- another Lawrence Block novel, "Hit Man", which I think is probably his masterpiece. I can think of few more entertaining premises than that of a hit man going through a mid-life crisis. Structurally the book is also very sound; each chapter is an episode that could stand on its own as a short story, but read in the proper order they form a through-line for the entire book, like a novel and a short story collection combined into one. Methinks it's a bit early, but it might also be the right time for me to toot my own horn a bit, as I'm writing a comedy/mystery series called "Vincent Park and His Demon" that I hope to soon post on my currently-devoid-of-content website, www.endtransmit.com . More on that later, I hope. (the other) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:17:26 -0400 From: Dan McCarthy Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) >Personally I'd rate Block's Matt Scudder books above the Bernie books but I >love both series(es?). Both are New York located but completely different >in tone - the Bernie books are wonderful confections and, like Stewart's >recommendation of Stout's Nero Wolfe, are all plotted in pretty much the >same way but they are huge fun and I tend to pull one off the shelf if I'm >feeling a bit out of sorts - the Scudder books are much darker but the >characters who float in and out of the books are brilliantly realised and >the dialogue marvellous. Yes they are mysteries but that doesn't really >seem to be the point of the books... I prefer the Rhodenbarr books just for that warm-cuddly feeling, but I agree there's much substance to be had in the Scudder books, substance that completely negates the very pulpy-looking facade presented by some of the covers. I particularly enjoyed "When the Sacred Ginmill Closes", which has one of the most surprising and satisfying endings of any mystery novel I've read. >goes a bit Buchan-esque at times) - a great page turner. Also CODEBREAKERS, >accounts by the people who worked at Bletchley Park (where ENIGMA is set) >during WWll on breaking the German Enigma cyphers. And, because I like rock Aha! Which brings to mind another fascinating but enormously-long book, "Cryptonomicon" by Neal Stephenson. I am racking my brain before I make this next statement... Okay, nope. I have never, ever in my life read a book with as much scope as this one. From 1940s wartime code-breaking to modern cryptographic theory to sunken treasure to... any of a million topics, all told via three expertly-interwoven narratives through three different generations. The book is so sprawling and ambitious that I was shocked that it could even be written. I would actually use the word "brilliant". (the other) Dan P.S. - I've just read further posts on the list, and I see two other mentions of Cryptonomicon. Nonetheless, I press on in sending this message, because I feel the gospel must be spread. Apologies to those who feel that I am needlessly clogging up their mail server. -D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:46:41 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Square Pegs In a message dated 10/18/01 1:41:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, flamingo@rt66.com writes: > Actually, the actor, Merritt Butrick, died of AIDS in about 1988 or 1989. > Makes working at Foot Locker seem downright appealing. > > That's awful. Of course, People conveniently left him and all that out. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 02:15:32 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] jane cd, mugged (ns) Hey all, Just got back from the emergency room, having found out after a six hour wait that the two guys who tried to rob me tonight didn't manage to cause any more damage than a puffy cheek and a sore knee. I was very close to home, and all excited about the free CD in the November issue of Jane magazine, and happily listening to Stereolab's new album on headphones. So, I didn't notice the two guys behind me. I also didn't hear what they said when one of them put his fingers to my side (gun-like) and said, presumeably, "give me your money." No, with Stereolab in my ears, I obliviously turned into them, thinking that it was someone I knew playing a stupid joke. Instead I found myself suddenly trying to fight off two pretty big guys. I'm pleased to say that I remembered to yell "Fire" instead of "Help" which succeeded in drawing a crowd. Not that anyone actually helped, but they did call 911 and apparently by their presence convinced the would-be muggers to go mug someone else. I took a few punches to the left cheek and seem to have strained my knee. For all the fuss, they didn't get the $8.00 that I had in my pocket, didn't take my CD walkman, and basically ended up with jack, so I'm in reasonably good spirits, despite having to wait 6 hours in the emergency room at my own hospital. At least the doctors were nice to me, after finding out that I work for the legal department. Anyways, the news I was planning on posting to loud-fans: in the November Jane magazine (Sassy for the '00's, but not as cool) there's a pretty neat CD, and given that the mag's cover price is $2.95 it's well worth getting. Check to make sure your copy has a CD: they only put them into 100,000 issues. Tracks are all either exclusive or hard-to-find (how hard to find, I don't know) and include a song from Wilco's forthcoming album as well as tracks by Sonic Youth (the presently unreleased "Plastic Sun"), Sigur Ros, Mary Timony, Silver Jews, The Beta Band and (ironically) Stereolab. The Stereolab song is "Canned Candies" which isn't on the new album. Is it on a recent single? Stewart? If you can't find Jane, you can send them $3.95 at: Andrea Rosengarten, 7 West 34th Street, New York, NY 10001 and they'll send you a CD with even more tracks (or so they say). So, Brendan, you were asking me about nice neighborhoods in NY... : ) - --dana np: "Listen to What the Man Said" which is as good as JRT said it was. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:17:03 -0700 From: "West Moran" Subject: [loud-fans] Preflyte (NS) Just a couple of weeks ago, I believe that someone here was asking about The Byrds' "Preflyte" being released on CD. I got the new issue of Ice today, and there is an article -- and a full-page ad -- about "The Preflyte Sessions", a 2 CD collection of all the tracks on the original album, along with a mess of others, 40 in all. It's due from Sundazed on November 20. Won't that be nice? West ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #273 *******************************