From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #266 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Sunday, October 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 266 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC [Cardinal007@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC [Cardinal007@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] not to shortchange religion... [Aaron Mandel ] [loud-fans] pop diva lee roth? (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] RE: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC [Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com] RE: [loud-fans] Scott Miller and Jesus [Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC ["Chris Murtland" ] Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) ["Andrew Hamlin" ] [loud-fans] two quick ps' [dmw ] Re: [loud-fans] bookbookbook [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] bookbookbook [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC [Dan Sallitt > That depends on how many people you're saying have been given cancer by this frost giant. Or are you suggesting the space cow is at fault? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 08:29:04 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC In a message dated 10/12/01 9:35:44 PM, mbowen@frontiernet.net writes: > . . . what you do with your >genitals [is] *very* important to "God". So I guess God was pretty pissed at me last night? I thought the Book of Job taught us we *were* supposed to tie it into a pretzel ... ... and I guess He's responsible for my need to wear contacts? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 08:41:12 EDT From: Cardinal007@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC I can settle this God thing once and for all . . . there *is* a God. It's sharples. [he told me so himself] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] not to shortchange religion... On Fri, 12 Oct 2001, jenny grover wrote: > 3- Thingy- Mayday > Interesting meters. Dark, bass-heavy undertones. Complex. I like > this. More info? Jon already provided the lowdown. I want to also mention my favorite Rob Crow project, Pinback. They have an album and EP out now, and another album coming soon. They tend to be groovier than Thingy; in fact, Cyndy P. was surprised I liked them on account of my usual lack of interest in things that have a soothing or drony quality. But they're great. Like most (all?) of Rob's bands, there are legit mp3s available at www.mp3it.com. While you're there, listen to the (unrelated) Jud Jud. aaron - -- to raise your intake of aaron, consider -- - -- fiction on demand -- free fast figments -- - -- read/request @ www.bantha.org/~trap/ltd -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:40:17 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] not to shortchange religion... On Friday, October 12, 2001, at 10:23 PM, jenny grover wrote: > 4- The Danielson Famile- Big Baby > Lo-fi, eccentric, silly at times. Reminds me of Devilhead (and that's a > compliment). Tell me something about this group. Maybe they wouldn't take to the comparison - http://www.newjerusalemmusic.com/danielson/ And - > DANIELSON FAMILE > Fluevog and Danielson Famile Join Forces > A partnership between John Fluevog shoes and the Danielson Famile has > brought about a Danielson Famile Fluevog shoe known as the "Familevog" > and a song by the Famile about... well... feet. The song "Flip Flop > Flim Flam" will be given away at all John Fluevog stores with a > purchase, and later will appear on a Danielson Famile release. The shoe > and cd is now available at the John Fluevog stores and the web site > www.fluevog.com. - - Steve __________ A New York Times investigation into overseas ballots that helped George W. Bush win the presidency found that Florida election officials, facing intense GOP pressure to accept military votes, counted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:10:26 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC On Friday, October 12, 2001, at 08:05 PM, Chris Murtland wrote: > I'm not saying I can present physical evidence of God's existence, but > I wonder what the alternative theory for meaning and commonality among > humans really is. Here's one - http://www.aeu.org/ - - Steve __________ HALTON, England  President Bush said Thursday he is having a hard time selling a missile defense plan to skeptical allies in Europe because he has only "vague notions" about what it would entail. - Ron Fournier, AP, 07/19/01 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:15:13 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] pop diva lee roth? (ns) No music reviews in the new New Yorker, but they continue to puzzle me. But before I get to that, there's also a very arresting Absolut ad on the back cover, featuring David Bowie and a bottle of Absolut. Not really worth seeking out, but it was kind of fun. Anyway, in an article on Susan Batson, acting coach, the following appears [the author of the article is speaking]: "The piece we were required to perform at the end of the session was an eleven-line tantrum that Batson had written, based on one that a pop diva had thrown at her road manager. "We need to feel that her fear is heartfelt," Batson advised, as she handed out the script. "Really obligate yourself, really drop into the character's need to be understood." After a few minutes of study, each of us acted out what we remembered of the speech. It read, in part: 'Val -- Val -- this is catastrophic! Do you SEE what has been placed before us here -- I can't believe the disgrace. I SAID -- before we booked this place, before you made the phone calls to CONFIRM our dates here -- that there should be no green M&M's in the fucking assortment...'" Now, I can think of all sorts of ways to wiggle around this, but doesn't it seem that, fundamentally, someone has goofed? Or perhaps it is I who have goofed? In another article, some guy refers to "the Swans" in 1990 as a noise band, but it would probably be excessively cranky to quibble with that. - --dana np: Leonard Cohen/"Field Commander Cohen" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:29:10 -0400 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC > i like to gather all the available evidence before i make a decision, > especially an important one. I'm a big ol' "P" on ye olde > meyers-briggs. Based on the rest of your message, I 'believe' you may also be a big ol' "N" on the meyers-briggs, as well. > if this is mere sophistry to you, fine. i'm going to retire from the > discussion and go see a rock'n'roll band that i have > irrational faith in. > > -- d., from the fence > > ps. what about purple people eaters? surely you don't discount the > existence of THOSE?? They exist only in the minds of the purple people. Diving back in... -julianne, ENFP ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:49:27 -0400 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Scott Miller and Jesus Thank you for a beautifully written essay that relates spirituality back to Scott Miller - something we can all relate to! I enjoy being 'moved' - whether by music, paintings, prose, or simply a moment where I 'connect' with another human. How do we measure that scientifically? Personally, I don't care. It's good enough for me to have the experience - I'm no longer compelled to convince others that I had the experience. Here and Now, baby! That said, we must remember that the laws of physics don't cover everything - thus, quantum physics. But, wait... quantum physics don't cover everything either. Some smaller particle always seems to show up and overturn the latest evidence that we can explain everything scientifically. Wasn't it Fox Mulder who said, "I want to believe." Maybe it's all a matter of choice. Well, that's what I chose to believe. -julianne - Born Again Agnostic > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Murtland [mailto:chris@studiomoxie.com] > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:02 PM > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Subject: [loud-fans] Scott Miller and Jesus > > > Okay, here is a bit of anecdote that illustrates concepts > I've been struggling with for some time, and it may serve to > give a sense of what religious faith is like from the point > of view of those who may have it. > > I like Scott Miller's music. In fact, it's fair to say I have > been obsessed with it for about 15 years. It is and has been > part of my life. But in recent times, I have had big > "philosophical" problems with music and art and human effort > in general (i.e., my faith in these things has been shaken). > I agonize over it, usually to my own detriment. The basic > problem is: does it *mean* anything? On one hand, music is > simply some mathematically arranged sonic frequencies that > travel through the air and hit the ear drum and get > interpreted by the brain. That's kind of cold, mechanistic. > It's true, but not very heartening. On the other hand, there > is an entire world of feeling, emotion, memory and thought > that accompanies listening to music, especially music you > have loved for a long time. This part seems equally true to > me, on a different level. Although this obviously takes place > in the brain, there is no complete scientific explanation > that I know of for this rich set of related e! > xperiences (and oddly enough going on in multiple brains at > the same time) that go along with the cold rational truth of > some mathematic frequencies. And if there were such an > explanation, I would probably give up on music (and novels.. > and life) as merely a delusion and a trick played out by > bio-electro-chemical fireworks in my soft gray matter, or > worse, a meaningless trick on a meaningless being played by > arbitrary culture that self-organizes from a complex system. > > I like science. I believe there are natural laws governing > the universe and that we can know them with increasing > clarity. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive and (R)omantic, but if > that is the total sum of human existence, if that's all > listening to the Loud Family is, then it seems pointless to > me. But, in better moments, I have some faith that there is > something good and valuable there and that there is some > unquantifiable and unobservable "essence" of music that > embodies human emotion, experience and communication. And > perhaps I am constructing these things willfully because I > fear the dark truth that I created them. But if that really > is the dark truth (in life; music is a microcosm to > illustrate), then I can imagine no argument that would > convince me that chaos, destruction or even suicide is not > just as "right" as working, loving, playing, etc--since right > and wrong would then have no delimiters. So, faith, to me, is > that hope that the essences of being alive are just as imp! > ortant as the mechanics. And just as humans create music and > novels (I cannot, within reason, accept that Interbabe > Concern would spontaneously appear, without Scott Miller, in > the universe, regardless of how long those little amino acids > went at it)--these things that have such a rich set of > accessories-- it seems that a rich set of experiences on a > broader scale also requires a source. > > The theological concept of the Trinity has sometimes been > explained by using H2O as an example--it can be ice, water, > or steam, but it's still H2O. For me, science and faith are > like this--different aspects, with different qualities, of an > overall reality. > > Anyway, sorry to be so gushy and personal and imposing. I > just thought that might shed some light on what faith can be > to some (a struggle though it may be). In any case, > discussing these matters sure is making me tired. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:54:10 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC Thanks, Steve, I am devouring it now. Here's one part I found: ......... Ethical Humanism is commitment to a way of life, to a creative relationship to others and thereby to ourselves, in which metaphysical and theological arguments are set aside. Whether or not God exists may be an interesting question. But the answer to that question--if answerable at all--should make no crucial difference in how we ought to live, how we ought to treat our fellow beings. My ethical obligations and potentialities--and yours--remain exactly the same, whether God exists or does not exist. Our shared task is to live decently, compassionately, and caringly in the world we inhabit. Albert Einstein said it best on behalf of all Ethical Humanists when he commended the New York Society for Ethical Culture on the occasion of its seventy-fifth anniversary year. He noted that the idea of Ethical Culture embodied his personal conception of what is most valuable and enduring in religious idealism. Humanity requires such a belief to survive, Einstein argued. "Without 'ethical culture' there is no salvation for humanity," the great physicist and Humanist observed. ......... I suppose what I am looking for is the sociological theory of how ethics developed in human culture in the first place. What brought us to the point where we believe that our shared task is to live decently? And why do we need such a belief to survive? I suppose it is time to brush up on my Sumerian. > On Friday, October 12, 2001, at 08:05 PM, Chris Murtland wrote: > > > I'm not saying I can present physical evidence of God's existence, but > > I wonder what the alternative theory for meaning and commonality among > > humans really is. > > > Here's one - > > http://www.aeu.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:59:11 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Scott Miller and Jesus You're welcome. And you make a good point (especially for me). Philosophy is something you tackle in your twenties, and I'm really too old for it now. I should just enjoy the time I have left! Chris > Thank you for a beautifully written essay that relates spirituality > back to Scott Miller - something we can all relate to! > > I enjoy being 'moved' - whether by music, paintings, prose, or > simply a moment where I 'connect' with another human. How do we > measure that scientifically? Personally, I don't care. It's > good enough for me to have the experience - I'm no longer > compelled to convince others that I had the experience. > > Here and Now, baby! > > That said, we must remember that the laws of physics don't > cover everything - thus, quantum physics. But, wait... quantum > physics don't cover everything either. Some smaller particle > always seems to show up and overturn the latest evidence that > we can explain everything scientifically. > > Wasn't it Fox Mulder who said, "I want to believe." Maybe it's > all a matter of choice. Well, that's what I chose to believe. > > -julianne - Born Again Agnostic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:20:44 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC >Oh, and by the way, you do know that you can't be omnipotent and omniscient >at the same time, right? One of my college professors offered an argument against God's omniscience, based on evidence from the book of Job. Specifically, were God actually omniscient, he would have known that Job would not have budged no matter what the poor bastard had thrown at him--and therefore would not have put Job's feet to the fire in the first place. Unless of course, the Almighty did that purely for shits and grins. (See Tom Waits: "There ain't no Devil, just God when he's drunk.") Admittedly, the above argument says nothing specifically about God's capacity or non-capacity for simultaneous omnipotence and omniscience. It simply points out that according to available evidence, he doesn't possess the latter. As to that other burning theological matter, I refer all to "Man Of Steel, Woman Of Kleenex": http://www.blueneptune.com/~svw/superman.html Esto es mas serio de lo que parece, Andy "In the early days I would stand with one part of my foot on the amplifier and my eyes pinned downwards. Using Dianetics technology, I became more and more freed up. I used to play one note with one finger and now There [sic] are no limits. I came out of a shell. And that happened as a result of Dianetics." - --Billy Sheehan, bassist for Diva Lee Roth, Mr. Big., and others; from a Dianetics flyer I found two days ago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:21:14 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) Assumption: Reading novels is valuable, if only because I find it "enjoyable" Being completely isolated from the Academy, and for that matter other people who like reading as much as I do, I sometimes find it hard to discover new (to me) writers that are worth reading. Here are some recent and not-so-recent discoveries that may illuminate my tastes. Please send a couple of names my way so I can discover more. * Umberto Eco. My most recent find (a couple of years ago). I quickly devoured his three novels and will probably read them again. Being a bit obsessive when I find something I like, I even jumped into "Semiotics and the Philosophy of Language," but novels are the best. * Borges. * Nabokov. I've read practically all of them, some several times. Vlad is pretty much my standard and baseline in this arena. Barth and Pynchon seem to always want to go on this list, but I just don't find them as enchanting as my top three. For lighter fare, I have enjoyed books by William Gibson and even (no need to start this one up again) Douglas Coupland. In fact, I find I have to even balance things (must hold on to a clear mind) by reading the standard vulgar (older sense) supermarket writers like Stephen King, Anne Rice, Michael Crichton, John Grisham, etc. But what I am looking for now are a few more I can add to the enchanters list. I promised to avoid spiritual and philosophical content, and I am trying really hard. But I must mention that a current book I'm in, "From Dawn to Decadence," by Jacques Barzun, is a fun read that illuminates how our recent discussions have played out in science, politics and culture for the past 500 years. I am not an historian, and I have seen that some folks elsewhere enjoy blasting Barzun for being less-than-modern and perhaps stodgy, but his work seems to me to be valid historical analysis without moving into the realm of judgement. C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:51:44 -0400 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: [loud-fans] If the shoe fits (ns) > From: jenny grover [mailto:sleeveless@citynet.net] > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:03 PM > Cc: Bucky...Firewoman...and John Cameron Swayze.... > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Faith in XTC > > > Chris Murtland wrote: > > > > But isn't there compelling evidence to suggest that I will > have a more rewarding relationship with my girlfriend than > with my shoe? > > Depends on the girlfriend. And quite possibly the shoe. If the girlfriend is a spike-heel variety (a.k.a CFM shoes) you're likely to be 'on your toes' and uncomfortable most of the time - in spite of how your legs might appear longer. On the other hand, if the girlfriend is like a clog you'll be more comfortable but most men will think she's butt-ugly. -julianne, Giant Space Cow tipping ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:58:47 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] smeared by sloan (ns) Shari and I were out doing the yard sale thing today (going to them, that is) and we happened upon someone who was ditching a bunch of great stuff for $1 a disc. I'm not going to annoy everyone by listing all the wonderful things we got, but among them was Sloan's "Smeared." I've never actually bought anything by them, 'cause they're not really my kind of thing these days, but Shari loves it, and I have to admit that it's sort of catchy. I know that I've seen them pop up frequently on this list, but if it's not a horrible thing to ask: does anyone have any words of advice about what's good by them. It also dawns on me that I'd really like to know more about what was going on at DGC in the early '90s. Was it all Sonic Youth's influence, or was there someone else there with interesting musical taste? Between Sloan, Sonic Youth, Sammy, Sugarplastic (hmmm, do I detect a pattern) and even Boss Hog, there were some pretty neat folks on the label. Anyway, off to a party with a bunch of psychologists. Oh, and if anyone wants a free copy of the Nightblooms' self titled debut CD (also one of my favorite albums) feel free to email me off-list. You know who you are is excluded, for fairness' sake. It's out of print, though not all that hard to find. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 16:56:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) - --- Chris Murtland wrote: > Being completely isolated from the Academy, and for that matter > other people who like reading as much as I do, I sometimes find it > hard to discover new (to me) writers that are worth reading. Here > are some recent and not-so-recent discoveries that may illuminate > my tastes. Please send a couple of names my way so I can discover > more. Has anyone here read hot-book-of-the-moment THE CORRECTIONS? I'm on the waiting list at my library -- thank goodness I got on before Oprah picked it, since the number of holds on it immediately jumped from 30 to over 100. The Oprah recommendation scares me a bit, since I tend not to be a huge fan of her choices. Here are a few book recommendations from someone who reads quite a lot. Most of what I read is forgotten pretty quickly, but here are some books that have stayed with me: John Kennedy Toole, A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES: This is one of the funniest books ever written, and the author's ear for dialogue is just astonishingly good. One wonders what else he might have accomplished had he not committed suicide at such a young age. Michael Chabon, WONDER BOYS & THE AMAZING ADVENTURES OF KAVALIER AND CLAY: I think he's the best American novelist working today. Tom Wolfe, A MAN IN FULL: I read this when it came out and thoroughly enjoyed every page of it. It's about 500 pages long, but I thought they flew by. Michael Zadoorian, SECOND HAND: I recommended this "HIGH FIDELITY in a thrift shop" novel a few months ago on the list, and know at least two people who subsequently read & enjoyed it. Nick Hornby, HIGH FIDELITY & ABOUT A BOY: I assume everyone here has read these by now, but you never know :) Bill Pronzini, the Nameless Detective series: I read all 25+ books in this series last year, and think it's one of the finest private eye series ever written. Unfortunately, most of them are out of print and they really should be read in order, but I was finally able to track them all down via interlibrary loan. Martha Lawrence, Elizabeth Chase series: One of the most underrated talents in contemporary mystery fiction. The series is about a private investigator with psychic abilities, which probably turns a lot of people off, but it's really well done, and, no, she can't just get a psychic vision of "whodunit." Again, I recommend reading in order, but all five books are in print and easy to find (the first four are available in paperback). The first one is called MURDER IN SCORPIO. Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:03:04 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] smeared by sloan (ns) At 06:58 PM 10/13/01 -0400, Dana L Paoli wrote: >I'm not going to annoy everyone by listing all the >wonderful things we got, but among them was Sloan's "Smeared." I've >never actually bought anything by them, 'cause they're not really my kind >of thing these days, but Shari loves it, and I have to admit that it's >sort of catchy. I know that I've seen them pop up frequently on this >list, but if it's not a horrible thing to ask: does anyone have any >words of advice about what's good by them. SMEARED is not very representative of Sloan at all -- later albums don't have the distorto guitars all over them and they're much more overtly poppy. As albums go, I think I like ONE CHORD TO ANOTHER and NAVY BLUES the best, but while TWICE REMOVED (the direct follow-up to SMEARED and their only other DGC release) is *really* inconsistent, it does have my all-time favorite Sloan song, "People of the Sky." (Others claim that TWICE REMOVED is the band's all-time pinnacle, so what do I know.) Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:12:26 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) >John Kennedy Toole, A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES: This is one of the >funniest books ever written, and the author's ear for dialogue is >just astonishingly good. One wonders what else he might have >accomplished had he not committed suicide at such a young age. Well, he did complete one other novel, THE NEON BIBLE. Hey, that one's actually been filmed! Also, though I haven't read it, I've heard good things about IGNATIUS RISING, the recently-published biography of Toole. >Michael Chabon, WONDER BOYS & THE AMAZING ADVENTURES OF KAVALIER AND >CLAY: I think he's the best American novelist working today. Read both, liked CLAY much better than WONDER, but yes, a worthy author. >Michael Zadoorian, SECOND HAND: I recommended this "HIGH FIDELITY in >a thrift shop" novel a few months ago on the list, and know at least >two people who subsequently read & enjoyed it. Color me one of two! >Nick Hornby, HIGH FIDELITY & ABOUT A BOY: I assume everyone here has >read these by now, but you never know :) Also, onlist grousing notwithstanding, I just finished HOW TO BE GOOD and found it hysterical. Also, read SPEAKING WITH THE ANGEL, the collection Hornby put together as a benefit for his autistic son's school, and while I don't know that I'll read it again, I will say I found everything in the book worth reading once. Hey Sue, did you ever pick up THE TOY COLLECTOR? Oprah never mentions John Fante... Andy Anthrax In Name-Change Dilemma Thrash-metallers Anthrax are considering changing the name of their band after the recent biological warfare scares in America. The rockers, who recently appeared on the soundtrack of John Carpenter's Ghosts Of Mars, have become more than a little uncomfortable since the disease after which they are named has become the country's number one fear. Lead singer Scott Ian says, "It's as though it's 1937 and I'm a bandleader named Freddie Hitler. Maybe we should change the name now. A friend suggested Basket of Puppies." Ian, who came up with the name 20 years ago in a high school biology class, continues, "People keep coming up to me and saying, 'Hey, wouldn't it be funny if you got anthrax?' I'm like, 'Oh, that would be hilarious.'" He's even stocked up on Cipro, the antidote for the germ, and adds, "I will not die an ironic death." - --from today's Celebrity News at the Internet Movie Database ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:34:52 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) At 04:56 PM 10/13/01 -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: >Bill Pronzini, the Nameless Detective series: I read all 25+ books in >this series last year, and think it's one of the finest private eye >series ever written. Unfortunately, most of them are out of print and >they really should be read in order, but I was finally able to track >them all down via interlibrary loan. Pronzini fans should also check out a pair of books he wrote called GUN IN CHEEK and SON OF A GUN IN CHEEK, which are about his fondness for what he calls "alternative crime fiction," or books and stories so amateurishly written, bizarrely plotted or just plain freakishly weird that they're in some ways more interesting than some of the supposed classics of the genre. (It's kinda like a genre fiction equivalent of Phil Milstein's MSR Madness albums.) I think they're both out of print, but I see them in remainder book stores a lot. And of course, any time crime fiction shows up on-list, I have to bring up Donald E. Westlake and LAwrence Block, particularly their Dortmunder (Westlake) and Rhodenbarr (Block) series. Don't be dissuaded by the string of really spectacularly bad films that have been made from these books -- Martin Lawrence's WHAT'S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN was even worse than the version of JIMMY THE KID that starred Gary Coleman, and Whoopi Goldberg's BURGLAR sucked harder than both of those put together -- because the books themselves are really great. And my own vote for best private eye series has gotta go to Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe books. They're no great shakes in terms of suspense or tight plotting -- in fact, they're all pretty much exactly alike and the ones that divert from the standard are often the weakest of the lot -- but Stout was better than any other mystery novelist I have ever read in creating a perfect little alternative universe for his characters. You really only read them because it's so much fun to hang out with Wolfe and Archie for a couple of hours. Andy: THE NEON BIBLE is really really *really* bad. He wrote it when he was like 15, and it shows. However, A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES is really quite possibly my favorite novel ever, and I highly recommend it for anyone. (If someone has to film it, I suggest John C. Reilly as Ignatius, hometown boy Randy Newman to score and perhaps Ang Lee to direct, but it really should be a multi-part high budget miniseries, because the novel is so ingeniously plotted that if you cut out any of the subplots or the subsidiary characters, much of the rest of it won't make sense anymore.) Ditto on the Chabon, although I'm not much at all on his first novel, THE MYSTERIES OF PITTSBURGH, which is mostly just okay until the last 30 pages or so, which are pointlessly melodramatic and completely over the top. Both books of short stories are pretty good, though, although A MODEL WORLD reads more like sections of a scrapped first novel. I also highly recommend Jill McCorkle. She's a southern novelist who I once heard described as "Anne Tyler's snotty kid sister." CAROLINA MOON is my personal favorite, although it seems like most people think FERRIS BEACH is the masterpiece. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 20:36:07 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC > Sorry, JR, Mark, etc., but there's no getting around the problem of pain. > "God" cannot be benign and omnipotent. What if God is benign but doesn't think that pain is important, and we can't grasp this because we haven't got a broad enough perspective? The above statement isn't exactly where I'm coming from these days, but I don't think your syllogism (A benign and omnipotent being wouldn't allow pain/Pain exists/Therefore there cannot be a benign and omnipotent being) is airtight. Just want to throw out one idea, which Chris Murtland came pretty close to. Most everyone has a feeling that something mystical is going on inside their own heads: namely, that some sort of being seems to be in there, a being not of the same genre as a rock or a stick. It may be that this is a strange illusion, and that we are exactly like rocks and sticks. Nonetheless, this weird-ass thing going on inside our heads is probably the strongest argument, in an emotional sense, for the world being shot through with supernaturalism. The existence of God doesn't seem much weirder. In the last five years or so, I've fallen prey to materialism, and I now fear that nothing special is happening in our heads. But I always think it's strange when people talk about there being no support for the existence of the supernatural, when our very existence is so bizarre. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:35:11 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] bookbookbook i have something of a bias toward surrealism/magic realism, but with eco, borges and nabokov on the list i feel in comfortable territory Milan Kundera -- almost anything Julio Cortazar, since you like Borges, try one of the short story collections (my favorite is _All Fires the Fire_ but _The Blow Up_ might be easier to find and is very good as well.) Jonathan Carroll -- _Land of Laughs_ is back in print after too many years, with more I think to follw(?) and a good starting point. Or hunt down a used copy of _Outside the Dog Museum_ I don't know that anything of Jean Echenoz's is currently in print in English, but I thought _Cherokee_ was really delightful and _Double Jeopardy_ was no let down. A bit surprised that Sue didn't mention Tom Perrotta, since she introduced him to me -- I like _Wishbones_ best of the ones of ride, in part for the tangential music content -- a more realistic portrayal of a rock band is a rare thing in literature (well, i haven't read ANdrea's book yet). Since mystery fiction was mentioned: Dorothy Sayers! Lord Peter Wimsey! hard to go wrong. SF writer Connie Willis seems to be getting better and better, speaking of Lord Peter, and I thought _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ was a delightful romp. Matt Ruff, _Public Works Trilogy_ (with some reservations, but basically more good than annoying) Angela Carter (of what I've read _THe Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. Hoffman_ was my favorite) Katherine Dunn, _Geek Love_ John Crowley I could go on and on. See if you find any hits therein. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:38:25 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] two quick ps' Richard Powers! esp. The Gold Bug Variations Dana: re noisy DGC if you left out the dirt merchants because you don't know of them, keep an eye peeled when usedbin trolling. about as certain as i can be that you'd find them appealing. i think i like the non-DGC stuff even better, but it's harder to come by. - -- d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:44:20 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] bookbookbook In a message dated 01-10-14 00:36:29 EDT, dmw@radix.net writes: > A bit surprised that Sue didn't mention Tom Perrotta, since she introduced > him to me -- I like _Wishbones_ best of the ones of ride, in part for the > tangential music content -- a more realistic portrayal of a rock band is a > rare thing in literature (well, i haven't read ANdrea's book yet). Thanks! I'm honered. I was a little surprised that Perfotta wasn't mentioned too. Joe College is a geat book and a worthy follow up to Election. If you went to college, or high school in the early 80s/late 70s, this is the book for you. One writer I want to recomend in all seriousness in JK Rowling. Harry Potter isn't just for kids, adults can get a lot of the series too. She has created a very real world, filled with people who are ordnary in every way except they can do magic. That's also the appeal of it. Can't wait for book five, or the movie. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:47:00 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] bookbookbook In a message dated 01-10-14 00:36:29 EDT, dmw@radix.net writes: > A bit surprised that Sue didn't mention Tom Perrotta, since she introduced > him to me -- I like _Wishbones_ best of the ones of ride, in part for the > tangential music content -- a more realistic portrayal of a rock band is a > rare thing in literature (well, i haven't read ANdrea's book yet). I agree about The Wishbones too. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:46:31 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Book recs needed (no spiritual or philosophical content!) The book that I've had the most success with (as far as lending it to other people and having them tell me they liked it) isn't exactly new, but "The Adversary" by Emmanuel Carrere is one of the most compelling things I've come across. Theoretically it's a true crime novel, but the author is also a biographer of Philip Dick and a very good, very french writer: it's not your average true crime novel. I think the English translation came out late last year. It's nonfiction, but has a lot of the qualities of fiction, partly because the events it describes are so bizzarre. It concerns itself with a succesful French docter who murdered his wife, children and parents. Subsequently, it was discovered that he had not actually been a doctor, had never finished medical school, held no job, and had in fact been driving to a parking garage or cafe every day and basically doing nothing or reading magazines, before returning home at the end of each day to his seemingly normal life. He managed to keep this up for well over a decade (!) before the threat of discovery finally prompted him to kill his entire family. The book is pretty chilling (apparently this was the crime of the decade in France in the 90's) and very, well, philosophical and spiritual. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:24:49 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC At Saturday 10/13/2001 08:36 PM -0400, Dan Sallitt wrote: >But I always think >it's strange when people talk about there being no support for the >existence of the supernatural, when our very existence is so bizarre. - How so? Bizarre compared to what? What's the frame of reference? Maybe life developed the way it has because that's just the way it works. All other paths lead to dead ends. Why must there be some outside force guiding that? If you have infinite possibilities, something eventually has to click. Life is random. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 02:06:54 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC > >But I always think > >it's strange when people talk about there being no support for the > >existence of the supernatural, when our very existence is so bizarre. - > > How so? Bizarre compared to what? What's the frame of reference? Bizarre compared to the existence of God. I'm not trying to make a proof or anything - just making the emotional argument that consciousness is an uncanny thing, and sort of opens the door to other uncanny thoughts. - Dan ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #266 *******************************