From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #262 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, October 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 262 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] stripes that are white (ns)/eBay lemons [Vivebonpop@aol.c] [loud-fans] Scott content...almost ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie ["Andrew Hamlin" ] RE: [loud-fans] audio weenie/XTC ["Keegstra, Russell" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie ["Pete O." ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie [Michael Mitton ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie ["Chris Murtland" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 03:04:03 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] stripes that are white (ns)/eBay lemons In a message dated 10/10/01 3:00:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: > The White Stripes are on Letterman > tonight. Watch it. Tape it. Sell it on eBay in a few months. > > --dana > > Yeah, just don't market it as an official release, else instant karma's gonna get you. I understand getting burned on eBay purchases is fairly common, which made me think it would be a good idea for a thread. I got burned early this year buying what I thought was a Lush promotional video collection circa "Lovelife" era from 4AD which was in reality nothing more than someone's private taping off of MTV over the years duped. (not the only thing duped) The way the item was listed was very misleading in its descripion. I suppose I wouldn't have minded so much if the quality of the transfer was a bit better than 1940s television reception resolution, and I hadn't paid 20 dollars for it. Also bought a Smiths 12" once from a record store in Baltimore (beware of Normals records) and it was described as "near mint." I didn't realize a scratched record with a worn-out sleeve was "near mint." My bad. "Hi I'm Dave Kendall, and I talk this way even though I'm really from Ohio." Here's Lush on 120 Minutes." M np my tastebuds...just indulged in Ben and Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough...carbohydrate, smarbohydrate (also The Lilac Time "lilac 6") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:33:48 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] Scott content...almost ....well at least he was in the room. Check it out. Circa 1988 at Maxwell's in Hoboken. and 2 outta 4 are from NC http://groups.yahoo.com/group/paisley-pop/files/Holsapple%20at%20Maxwell %27s.jpg - -larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:12:53 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie At 02:53 PM 10/10/2001 -0400, Vallor wrote: >I also wanted to ask you folks for some information on CD's, can anyone tell >me if these releases ever appeared in CD? Anyone know where they might be >found? > > >Human Switchboard- Who's Landing In My Hanger Never on CD. Faulty Products was an offshoot of IRS, so assuming that the tapes still exist, they're the property of some multinational somewhere. >The Individuals- Fields Never on CD. The Wygals' "Honyocks In The Whithersoever" was released on Rough Trade, which was a one-way ticket to nowhere. >Jules Shear- The Eternal Return As far as I know, never on CD. A couple of tracks are on the "Horse Of A Different Color" comp put out by Razor & Tie. Lobbying Rhino Handmade to re-release Richard Lloyd's "Alchemy", Michael Bowen http://www.savemonroe.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:50:02 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie In a message dated 10/11/01 8:44:16 AM, mbowen@frontiernet.net writes: << >Jules Shear- The Eternal Return As far as I know, never on CD. A couple of tracks are on the "Horse Of A Different Color" comp put out by Razor & Tie. >> Released in Japan as a Capitol CD in 1994...and the "Watch Dog" reissue has two mixes of "When Love Surges" as bonus tracks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:43:08 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie >>The Byrds- Pre-Flyte (not the Sony alternate takes CD, but the original >>tracks) > >Didn't Poptones just reissue this? You mean the early tracks that came out >on vinyl in the mid-80s, right? PREFLYTE gets a mention in my ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ROCK, which came out circa 1977, so I'm inclined to think some version of the release must predate that date. >>XTC- Skylarking (the version before "Dear God" cocked it up) > >"Mermaid Smiled" (which is a fantastic song, much better than "Dear God") >is on RAG AND BONE BUFFET, I'd like to say that while I love XTC, "Dear God," is one of the bigger poop piles I've ever whiffed off a talented act. I'm all for bonking the Almighty, don't get me wrong, but I'm sticking with Gary Numan's EXILE (EXTENDED). Or Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumors." Or Warren Zevon's "The (Vast) Indifference Of Heaven." Or the Buzzcocks' "I Believe." Or Bruce Springsteen's "Reason To Believe." Or "Spooky" by Mr. Epp and the Calculations. Or hell, Elton John's "If There's A God In Heaven (What's He Waiting For?)," Andy There were models, too. A Personal Matter, the Kenzaburo Ok novel. It's one big situation: your wife has just given birth to a monster, and you're a Japanese male. Up until today you've been thinking, Maybe we can leave all this behind in Japan and go to Africa. Now people won't even show you the baby. They'll merely describe it  and they'll do so in almost comically horrible terms. That's it, the whole story: let's just watch what happens to him in the space of a week. I found that an incredibly compelling book even though there is no real development. The oft-cited Desperate Characters, same thing. A woman is bitten by a possibly-rabid cat. Let's watch what happens. It's very liberating for me to realize that I don't have to step up to the plate with a plot that involves the U.N. Security Council. - --Johnathan Franzen, discussing his new novel THE CORRECTIONS, from an interview with Dave Welch at http://www.powells.com/authors/franzen.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:51:17 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] audio weenie/XTC Andy, Stewart, and I don't remember who else: >>>XTC- Skylarking (the version before "Dear God" cocked it up) >> >>"Mermaid Smiled" (which is a fantastic song, much better than "Dear God") >>is on RAG AND BONE BUFFET, >I'd like to say that while I love XTC, "Dear God," is one of the bigger poop >piles I've ever whiffed off a talented act. Skylarking did, however, come out on Mobile Fidelity (although it was the version with Dear God). I find it difficult to pass up stuff I don't like on Mobile Fidelity, let alone stuff I like. Although the $30 Ultradisc II pretty much cured me of that habit. Russ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie - --- Andrew Hamlin wrote: > >>The Byrds- Pre-Flyte (not the Sony alternate takes CD, but the original > >>tracks) > > > >Didn't Poptones just reissue this? You mean the early tracks that came out > >on vinyl in the mid-80s, right? > > > PREFLYTE gets a mention in my ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ROCK, which came > out circa 1977, so I'm inclined to think some version of the release must > predate that date. > "Preflyte" was re-released this year by Poptones, having originally been released in 1969. Rhino took the tracks from the 1969 version and added several new tracks to their 1988 "In The Beginning" release. A number of tracks overlap between these two, but Rhino used different versions for their release. Essentially, they're two different collections. Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:04:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > I'd like to say that while I love XTC, "Dear God," is one of the bigger poop > piles I've ever whiffed off a talented act. I'm all for bonking the > Almighty, don't get me wrong, but I'm sticking with Gary Numan's EXILE > (EXTENDED). Or Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumors." Or Warren Zevon's "The In what is perhaps the funniest mondegreen (or whatever that word is) ever, having never actually paid attention to the lyrics of the verses, I heard the chorus of "Blasphemous Rumors" as "I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors, but I think that God's got a sixth sense of you / and when I die I expect to find him loving." Hey, I was pre-teen when that song came out. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:49:55 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie In a message dated 10/11/01 1:47:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zoom@speakeasy.org writes: > I'd like to say that while I love XTC, "Dear God," is one of the bigger poop > piles I've ever whiffed off a talented act. I'm all for bonking the > Almighty, don't get me wrong, but I'm sticking with Gary Numan's EXILE > (EXTENDED). Or Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumors." I'm not at all for bonking the Almighty, but I appreciate XTC's "Dear God," because to me it is about someone with a mind struggling with the concept of faith, and it is a document of that struggle, which I believe is God instilled. "You're always letting us humans down" is evidence to me that the writer (Partridge, I assume) DOES believe there is a God, and stating his unbelief at the end of the song to me seems like a child saying, (or in this case, singing) "You've let me down, and haven't given me what I've wanted, and you haven't lined up with what my expectations of what God should be, so I'm not going to believe in you." I find a similar thing happening in Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumors," only in this song God is acknowledged as existing, but is accused of being cruel. Again, I believe that one cannot struggle with God issues unless God puts that struggle there. As for the Gary Numan album you speak of, that album gave me some major bad energy, and I threw it out. It is not a struggle with God, like the first two. There isn't a struggle going on there. That record goes way beyond a struggle with belief or understanding God's ways and moves into the territory of, "I hate God; an enemy of God is a friend of mine." Now please let me have my say, and don't ridicule me (i.e. bringing up the Jupiter Affect thing from last year)...equal time for ALL points of view, Mark, who knows he isn't the only Christian on this list ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:07:20 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie Now if someone would just write the following songs: Dear Academy Dear Pop Culture Dear Social Contract Dear Art Dear Ego Validation Dear Progress Dear Revolution Dear Ex-Girlfriend (oh wait, that's surely been covered) Dear _Fill In The Blank_ God isn't the only one/thing that may disappoint. I always thought "Dear God" was a pretty catchy song, and I'm not even a big XTC fan (just a little too sugary for my tastes), but the sugar coating could never overcome my annoyance at the didactic lyrics. Instead, try the International Noise Conspiracy. Naive politics (although tempting), but it is oh so satisfying, especially at high volume. Dear Murt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:28:18 -0400 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Released On CD + some amazing news Well, I'll start off by thanking everyone for the wealth of information regarding CD releases, I have Alot! to say and I will go into that further but I must first put you onto something that has me elated. I'm not much of a fan of reunions, I enjoyed the Big Star and Soft Boys reunions immensely and was quite smitten by Buzzcocks and Stiff Little Fingers reunions I saw in the late 80's but have seen a load of bad ones too. That said, this leaves me pretty breathless. See here... http://www.missionofburma.com/ Back to the CD releases issue. I has asked about a bunch of titles, these ones remain a mystery... >Doctors Children- King Buffalo (Down There or any other label) >Giant Sand- Storm >Green On Red- Gravity Talks >Human Switchboard- Who's Landing In My Hanger >The Individuals- Fields >The Last- LA Explosion & Painting Smiles On A Dead Man >Miracle Legion- The Backyard EP & Surprise Surprise Surprise LP >Mission Of Burma- Let Them Be Burma (UK outtakes double album...stuff from >the Taaang records) >The Motorcycle Boy (UK band)- anything? >The Neats- first album >Rank And File- Sundown & Long Gone Dead >The Romans- anything? >Jules Shear- The Eternal Return >Nicki Sudden And The Jacobites- Texas Stewart had mentioned that >>Bee Gees- Odessa (complete version, not edited) >I am 95% certain that the Polydor CD is the full 17-track double album. >But it doesn't have the cool flocked velvet cover, so I never traded up >from my LPs. I had a 16 track CD that I bought long ago, but was disappointed that it dropped one song ("With All Nations") so I sold it. This was an American Polydor budget CD. The www.hmv.com site Steve put me onto regarding the XTC Skylarking has the 17 track version so I suppose I ought to find out if the current US versionis the same. I jumped to the conclusion that the 16 track might be all their was because that's the one that pops up on eBay now and then. >>The Byrds- Pre-Flyte (not the Sony alternate takes CD, but the original >>tracks) >Didn't Poptones just reissue this? You mean the early tracks that came out >on vinyl in the mid-80s, right? The vinyl album was issued on Together Records in the early 70's. There was CD issued on Rhino called In The Beginning... that was one of Rhino's slips. They culled a new collection in lieu of Pre-Flyte that includes tracks from the same sessions/era. These alternate versions change harmonies and tempos pretty dramatically in many cases. I have looked at the Poptones site and lo & behold, they have indeed reissued it. Thanks Stewart! Joe mentioned of Skylarking... >This was issued on CD, and can be found by scouting used CD stores or >eBay. I'll keep my eyes on the stores for this, or if anyone wants to swap an "Original Master Recording" Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab version that is clean for a clean version without Dear God, I'm up for that. Aaron asked... >> Bob Pfeifer- After Words >Is this the Human Switchboard guy? Yes it is, Pfeifer issued one solo album on PVC before going on to become a record executive for Epic and later the president of Hollywood Records. Not sure where he is now. Dana sez... >Yung Wu- Shore Leave >Also not on CD. Now that "The Good Earth" is out of print and beginning >to fetch collector's prices, I'm hoping that someone will reissue on CD >the Feelies' Coyote output, including Yung Wu (which is pretty much my >favorite Feelies album at this point), the Trypes' Explorers Hold (which >is not quite so great, but hey) and that EP that accompanied Good Earth. >What a great set that would make!! A Feelies boxed set would be brilliant, especially if it included a live disc. I'm not much of a live album fan but they were so much better live than in the studio...everything was triple speed. The Yung Wu album was indeed amazing, sadly Weckerman could never be enticed to sing live without being thoroughly lubricated. Speaking of The Feelies, I expect I never mentioned it here, but three of the Feelies (Glenn, Stan and Weckerman) reunited in 1998 and did a three song demo CDR with Trypes/Speed The Plough's John Baumgartner and Toni Paruta as Sunburst. Their pal and ex-Winter Hours guitarist Michael Carlucci is selling them out of his store and by mail, try him if your interested at ... http://www.strnyc.com/mercel.html he has them for $8.99. He's got some other great stuff too, check out the Sun Ra/Blues Project collaboration Batman and Robin album. He's also got Tom Verlaine's 1st solo album on CD... never seen that. Andrea mentioned... >> Kirsty MacColl- Desperate Character >This is the only one for sure that I know isn't on CD. This album is so rare >that Kirsty had said in interviews that she didn't have a copy. If you've got >one, you're very lucky. This came out twice on vinyl with different songs. The first time in 1981 and then again in about 1983 with some new inferior songs. The second was a budget release perhaps from Germany or France. >dc wrote: >> Christmas- In Excelsior Dayglo >then this seems to have been bootlegged at least once. i found it on CD >about six years ago, in the "import" section of a Seattle shop; the label >purports to be "IV Recordings" (catalog IVR-007). Is there an address on this one? I've never heard of it. What year did it appear? >From: steve >The Japanese XTC reissues all have the bonus tracks moved to the end. >You can get them cheap at www.hmv.ca. I can't figure out why they >didn't include Extrovert on Skylarking, but what the heck. This is a good site, seems like a good inexpensive source, thanks. Steve wrote; >> Flamin' Groovies- Shake Some Action >Reissued on CD by Aim (Australia). Cheap and easy to find too. >> Flying Color- Flying Color >Reissued on CD by Munster (Spain) in 1996, with three bonus tracks. Thanks for the tip, I'd be thrilled to get the bonus tracks from Flying Color. Their outtakes were often amazing. It's not on the Munster site but I've emailed them and after you mentioned this I saw the reissue listed in the Musnter catalog inserted in my Munster Flamin Groovies Gold Star CD set. >From: Jack Lippold >Captain Sensible's first 2 solo releases (on A & M - Europe): >"Women and Captain First" - 1982 >"Power of Love" - 1983 >I don't think they are on CD. There is a website that gives a pretty >complete discography and those two are not listed as being anything but >their original-year LP releases. >Anyone know differently? I've not heard of these on CD, I was not so fond of the second one (a bit overproduced for me) but the first one was real fine, especially the elsewhere unavailable Robyn Hitchcock song "Brenda". >*All* records should be reissued by Rhino on CD. If anyone wins the >lottery, or otherwise gains access to huge loads of cash, they ought to >endow Rhino with loads of money. I'm pretty sure Time-Warner is a parent to Rhino, so I expect their not hurting for funding as I think they sell pretty well. The management of Rhino and the talent behind the mastering is exceptional. I knew Gary Stewart back in the "Paisley Underground" days and he was a pure fan, being a business man came much later. I knew Bill Inglot, the man who does most of the fine mastering, through The Last...a great underappreciated proto "Paisley Underground" garage band whose only albums you can get now are some substandard SST releases. Bill was The Last's engineer and producer and worked with a number of other LA bands back then. Sorry for the length of this one, I'm a bit under the weather so I've got nothing to do. Hope you're all well. Kind regards- Dan Vallor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:58:14 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie Chris Murtland wrote: > > Now if someone would just write the following songs: > > Dear Academy "Academy Fight Song" isn't good enough for you? (Thanks, Dan, for the Mission of Burma info/teaser). Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:01:02 -0400 From: "Chris Murtland" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie Yeah, I love that song. I'll have to revisit the lyrics, though. > Chris Murtland wrote: > > > > Now if someone would just write the following songs: > > > > Dear Academy > > "Academy Fight Song" isn't good enough for you? > (Thanks, Dan, for the Mission of Burma info/teaser). > > Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:57:23 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC On Thursday, October 11, 2001, at 02:49 PM, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > I'm not at all for bonking the Almighty, but I appreciate XTC's "Dear > God," > because to me it is about someone with a mind struggling with the > concept of > faith, and it is a document of that struggle, which I believe is God > instilled. "You're always letting us humans down" is evidence to me > that the > writer (Partridge, I assume) DOES believe there is a God, and stating > his > unbelief at the end of the song to me seems like a child saying, (or in > this > case, singing) "You've let me down, and haven't given me what I've > wanted, > and you haven't lined up with what my expectations of what God should > be, so > I'm not going to believe in you." Andy has said many times that he's an atheist. Dear God started out as a b-side because he thought it was a minor effort, but it got a lot of air play and ended up replacing Mermaid Smiled on later pressings of Skylarking. I'm not sure about US releases, but at least the first Virgin CD release in the UK has the original track order. The XTC box set from Virgin is still on, and should come out in the first half of 2002. Considering past events, I'm not holding my breath. I think it's 4 discs, one of which will be home demos picked by Virgin. This is supposed to put an end to the dispute about the ownership of songs demoed by Andy and Colin while they were signed to Virgin, and the rest will eventually show up on the long aborning Fuzzy Warbles discs. The plea sent out to XTC fans via the Chalkhills list for copies of Colin's demos has evidently been heeded, so the FW releases won't be as totally Partridge as it was seeming. - - Steve __________ Moynihan's malicious insinuations to the contrary, Social Security can default only if the nation has collapsed in utter ruin or if right-wing politics cancels everyone's insurance policy. - William Greider ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:22:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, steve wrote: > On Thursday, October 11, 2001, at 02:49 PM, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > > > I'm not at all for bonking the Almighty, but I appreciate XTC's "Dear > > God," > > because to me it is about someone with a mind struggling with the > > concept of > > faith, and it is a document of that struggle, which I believe is God > > instilled. "You're always letting us humans down" is evidence to me > > that the > > writer (Partridge, I assume) DOES believe there is a God, and stating > > his > > unbelief at the end of the song to me seems like a child saying, (or in > > this > > case, singing) "You've let me down, and haven't given me what I've > > wanted, > > and you haven't lined up with what my expectations of what God should > > be, so > > I'm not going to believe in you." > > Andy has said many times that he's an atheist. Dear God started out as I think Partridge is playing with the paradox that leads Mark to assume a backdrop of belief - but I'll have to agree with Steve that if Partridge says he's an atheist, then he is. I've always read the song as in many ways directed more at believers than at "God": in other words, if you believe in God, why don't you act more like it? (And from an atheist's perspective, such action would be the only sort of "existence" God might have.) That perspective doesn't account for, say, natural disaster - but I think a lot of us might be able to understand Partridge's anguish at "God"'s unaccountability in the wake of the last month's events. Bonk! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I play the guitar. Sometimes I play the fool:: __John Lennon__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:24:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Chris Murtland wrote: > Now if someone would just write the following songs: > > Dear Academy > Dear Pop Culture > Dear Social Contract > Dear Art > Dear Ego Validation > Dear Progress > Dear Revolution > Dear Ex-Girlfriend (oh wait, that's surely been covered) > Dear _Fill In The Blank_ Okay, we've got some songwriters (or at least lyric writers) here - let's get crackin'. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::In terms of the conjunctures of cultures, [LA is] less like a salad bowl ::and more like a TV dinner with those little aluminium barriers keeping ::all the vegetables in their places. __Catherine Ann Driscoll__ ps: What ever happened to Matt Weber? He hasn't said anything after speculating aloud about people's interest in his sex life - perhaps he's gathering material? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:56:09 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC In a message dated 10/11/01 10:59:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > Andy has said many times that he's an atheist. That is such a difficult concept for me to understand, but I try. If I'm incorrect in my assumptions, it would not be the first time, but it seems to me it would take beaucoups more faith to NOT believe in God, than to believe in God. Like how many times have we heard stories on those supernatural phenomena tv programs of hospital cancer patients going through what physicians call "spontaneous remission" (disappearance of tumors off x-rays) when the patient and others have prayed for that person? Medical science has absolutely no explanation whatsoever. Or people who are quite respectable and sane and drug free who've testified to seeing angels in an emergency type situation? As for the events of last month, I have no answer for why God ALLOWED that to occur (in regards to Jeffrey's e-mail that just popped up and I read). This list always ends up going into politics and religion...the two big no-nos...why is that? (I'm not immune to this accusation). I visited a charismatic church the Wednesday evening after the WTC attacks, and the pastor discussed how when he attended a church in Brooklyn in the early 1960s, the pastor there prophesied about the events of last month...in detail (not a specific date was given, but the images we saw were described). It was also discussed during that evening's sermon (which was great, because this church was more interactive...he called on the congregation for their opinions and feedback) how ultimately the prize saught in this big battle is Israel, which ties in with the book of Revelation in the Bible, and events described therein. M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:05:00 -0400 From: "amy lewis" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC i never heard "dear god" as a struggle with faith -- completely cynical and disillusioned. go andy p.! faith, schmaith. does the almighty have a big cock? then i'm all for bonking him/her/it. amy magdalene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC > In a message dated 10/11/01 10:59:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > > > > Andy has said many times that he's an atheist. > > That is such a difficult concept for me to understand, but I try. If I'm > incorrect in my assumptions, it would not be the first time, but it seems to > me it would take beaucoups more faith to NOT believe in God, than to believe > in God. Like how many times have we heard stories on those supernatural > phenomena tv programs of hospital cancer patients going through what > physicians call "spontaneous remission" (disappearance of tumors off x-rays) > when the patient and others have prayed for that person? Medical science has > absolutely no explanation whatsoever. Or people who are quite respectable > and sane and drug free who've testified to seeing angels in an emergency type > situation? > > As for the events of last month, I have no answer for why God ALLOWED that to > occur (in regards to Jeffrey's e-mail that just popped up and I read). This > list always ends up going into politics and religion...the two big > no-nos...why is that? (I'm not immune to this accusation). I visited a > charismatic church the Wednesday evening after the WTC attacks, and the > pastor discussed how when he attended a church in Brooklyn in the early > 1960s, the pastor there prophesied about the events of last month...in detail > (not a specific date was given, but the images we saw were described). It > was also discussed during that evening's sermon (which was great, because > this church was more interactive...he called on the congregation for their > opinions and feedback) how ultimately the prize saught in this big battle is > Israel, which ties in with the book of Revelation in the Bible, and events > described therein. > M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 02:05:17 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > > Like how many times have we heard stories on those supernatural > phenomena tv programs of hospital cancer patients going through what > physicians call "spontaneous remission" (disappearance of tumors off x-rays) > when the patient and others have prayed for that person? Medical science has > absolutely no explanation whatsoever. First off, you're talking about TV! And secondly, cancer is a disease that can go into spontaneous remission (my painting instructor in college swears he cured his own cancer by getting lots of sunlight), and thirdly, it has been shown, though not understood exactly how, that people who have a strong belief system, of whatever basis, and great hope and faith in their recovery boost their own immune systems. So, while I'm not writing God off here, there are reasons to be skeptical and further examine what is going on. > This > list always ends up going into politics and religion...the two big > no-nos...why is that? Because they are interesting and drive a lot of human motives. > I visited a > charismatic church the Wednesday evening after the WTC attacks, and the > pastor discussed how when he attended a church in Brooklyn in the early > 1960s, the pastor there prophesied about the events of last month...in detail > (not a specific date was given, but the images we saw were described). I would take this with a grain of salt, as well. It's easy to fit past predictions to current events, often by molding generalities, or even what seem to be important details, in memory, to what has happened. Some of this is even done unitentionally, as the mind likes to make things conform to a pattern or explanation that "makes sense." And also, I don't think there are many people who couldn't have imagined a similar cataclysmic occurence (ie, a plane flying into a building), or else skyscrapers wouldn't have been built to withstand the impact of whatever planes were in use at the time of construction. If a person is of the nature or belief system to look for catastrophes caused by evil-doers, this sort of prediction, and it's coming true, isn't much of a stretch. Would you call me a prophet since I was thinking just a day or two before the attacks, while travelling by air, that airport security is so lax that it would be easy to take a weapon on a plane, or that one could use as a weapon something very simple and not conventionally thought of as a dangerous item, to coerce people and do great harm? > It > was also discussed during that evening's sermon (which was great, because > this church was more interactive...he called on the congregation for their > opinions and feedback) how ultimately the prize saught in this big battle is > Israel, which ties in with the book of Revelation in the Bible, and events > described therein. It doesn't take a religious person to see that the battle between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity over Jerusalem is a long-standing cause of much bloodshed and unrest. The book of Revelations was written by people involved in this cultural turmoil, so naturally it is going to figure largely in their predictions of the end of the world. Of course, these things all *could* be divinely wrought, but they also might not be. But I guess things like this aren't necessary to my morals or belief system or the way I live my life. Jen (sticking her neck out on the chopping block again) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:13:41 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: audio weenie / XTC On Thursday, October 11, 2001, at 10:56 PM, Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > This list always ends up going into politics and religion...the two big > no-nos...why is that? Because we're a bunch of over-educated pop geeks? It is a mistake to think that atheism is based on faith. But Andy P. didn't resolve anything in his 3 minute pop song, as he has noted, and Christian Apologists have failed to do so in 2000+ years. It's an argument that neither side can win, no matter how many adherents they might accumulate. - - Steve __________ Warning: This check is not a "rebate" of taxes you already paid. It's an advance on the refund you'll get when you file next April. If it's an advance, you ask, does that mean my refund in April will be $300 smaller than it would have been? And if I'm unlucky enough to owe taxes, does that mean my tax bill will be $300 higher? The answer to both questions is yes. - David Milstead, RMN ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #262 *******************************