From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #240 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, September 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 240 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [loud-fans] Tori? (ns) ["Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett" ] Re: [loud-fans] Swell Maps Query [Stewart Mason ] [loud-fans] Helene Grimaud ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] Swell Maps Query [Chris Prew ] Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Dennis_M] RE: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Overall_] RE: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Dennis_M] Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Roger Wi] [loud-fans] courage, happy thoughts, cake, ophelia (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Vivebonp] Re: [loud-fans] courage, happy thoughts, cake, ophelia (ns) [jenny grover] Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek [Vivebonp] Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek ["Joseph ] RE: [loud-fans] Tori? (ns) ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] [loud-fans] Dan Rather and Michael Moore ["Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Tori? (ns) Dana: > Apologies if this has been discussed. Has anyone heard the new Tori Amos > covers album? I often find that artists who I > respect-but-don't-actually-like are best appreciated when they're doing > other people's songs, and the guy at the record store (who isn't a great > Tori-lover) seemed to think it was terrific. He also likes the new > Sparklehorse (haven't heard it yet) and the new Mercury Rev (it's > wonderful). The latest Mojo (feature article 100 top punk singles!) has an advert for the album with Tori made up in 4 postcards in a sort of not-quite Cindy Sherman way to reflect 4 of the songs - Happiness Is A Warm Gun, I Don't Like Mondays, Strange Little Girl and raining Blood - and looking just stunningly wonderful. Album gets a pretty OK review... Must dash Ian PS Any opinions on The Strokes? Getting loadsa hype over here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:03:09 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek In a message dated 9/19/01 4:04:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: > "Yeah! Now you're messin with the red, > white, and blue." Puleeeze. > > Jen > That's so embarassing to me. This new wave of gender specific? patriotism (on sale at Wal-Mart...in the "seasonal" merchandise section) is kind of disturbing to me. If I see one more pickup truck with an American flag strapped to it while driving by the Hooters parking lot.... Mark "KILL 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT" (a bumper sticker that sent me into rage some years back...on a pickup truck...of course) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:26:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 Vivebonpop@aol.com wrote: > disturbing to me. If I see one more pickup truck with an American flag > strapped to it while driving by the Hooters parking lot.... I guess you've gotta stop driving around the Hooters parking lot. A lot of the waitresses have been complaining - they think you're one of those stalker types. A new toy Yoda! - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::In terms of the conjunctures of cultures, [LA is] less like a salad bowl ::and more like a TV dinner with those little aluminium barriers keeping ::all the vegetables in their places. __Catherine Ann Driscoll__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:58:17 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek <> Where I live, you have to drive past one to get to Sears or Circuit City, and it's unavoidable. At least this puts the whole Dale Earnhardt (sp?)/Ahyylliyhaayhh (sp!!?) in their respective places. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:15:40 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek >At least this puts the whole Dale Earnhardt >(sp?)/Ahyylliyhaayhh (sp!!?) in their respective places. Ahyylliyhaayhh - wasn't that a Donnie Iris tune? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:08:47 -0400 From: Cyndy Patrick Subject: [loud-fans] Swell Maps Query "Let's Build A Car" was one of my favorite tracks on the recent Rough Trade compilation, and I would like to delve deeper into the Swell Maps. Other Music has two SM discs at their Cambridge store: "Sweep the Desert" (I seem to recall reading a review when this came out indicating that it is more noisy than melodic) and "Jane From Occupied Europe". Will I be disappointed with "JFOE" if I am smitten with "Let's Build A Car"? - -Cyndy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 12:17:30 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Swell Maps Query At 02:08 PM 9/20/01 -0400, Cyndy Patrick wrote: >"Let's Build A Car" was one of my favorite tracks on the recent Rough >Trade compilation, and I would like to delve deeper into the Swell Maps. >Other Music has two SM discs at their Cambridge store: "Sweep the >Desert" (I seem to recall reading a review when this came out indicating >that it is more noisy than melodic) and "Jane From Occupied Europe". >Will I be disappointed with "JFOE" if I am smitten with "Let's Build A >Car"? It's probably been close to 15 years since I've heard JANE FROM OCCUPIED EUROPE, but my memory is that it's not a very good record at all, really haphazard and noisy, but not haphazard or noisy enough to be actually interesting. (Given that I like haphazard and noisy more now than I did in 1986, it's entirely possible that I'd like this record a lot more these days.) However, it's not terribly melodic and doesn't sound a thing like "Let's Build A Car." Stewart NP: Jennifer Goree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:27:57 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] Helene Grimaud Heard her again on the radio, playing Brahms. She is great. Anybody ever SEEN her?? Wow! A stunner. 'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:39:35 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Swell Maps Query > At 02:08 PM 9/20/01 -0400, Cyndy Patrick wrote: >> "Let's Build A Car" was one of my favorite tracks on the recent Rough >> Trade compilation, and I would like to delve deeper into the Swell Maps. >> Other Music has two SM discs at their Cambridge store: "Sweep the >> Desert" (I seem to recall reading a review when this came out indicating >> that it is more noisy than melodic) and "Jane From Occupied Europe". >> Will I be disappointed with "JFOE" if I am smitten with "Let's Build A >> Car"? > > It's probably been close to 15 years since I've heard JANE FROM OCCUPIED > EUROPE, but my memory is that it's not a very good record at all, really > haphazard and noisy, but not haphazard or noisy enough to be actually > interesting. (Given that I like haphazard and noisy more now than I did in > 1986, it's entirely possible that I'd like this record a lot more these > days.) However, it's not terribly melodic and doesn't sound a thing like > "Let's Build A Car." > > Stewart > > NP: Jennifer Goree Swell Maps are, by definition, haphazard and noisy. You kind of have to take to punky gems with the difficult arty stuff, as they switch from one to the other on a dime. They can be a tough listen, but I think they're worth it. I'd look for "A trip to marineville," their first album. "Sweep the Desert" is a retrospective, and not a very good one--last years "International Rescue" wasn't much better, although it picked from a stronger batch of songs. They're both very haphazard. You may want to buy "Jane" -- I think its out of print on CD. If you don't like it, its fairly good E-bay bait. Hell, I'd buy it off you. Chris Np: Team Dresch - personal best ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:39:56 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek Mark sez: "KILL 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT" (a bumper sticker that sent me into rage some years back...on a pickup truck...of course) <><><><><><><> "Kill them all. God will know His own." - --Contemporary english translation of a likely apocryphal quote attributed to some archbishop or another when asked how soldiers during the Cathar Crusade should distinguish the heretics from the faithful. "Kill 'Em All" - --Title of Metallica's first album, chosen after someone decided that the original title, "Metal Up Your Ass", might be offensive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:51:30 -0400 From: Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek > That's so embarassing to me. This new wave of gender > specific? patriotism > (on sale at Wal-Mart...in the "seasonal" merchandise section) > is kind of > disturbing to me. If I see one more pickup truck with an > American flag > strapped to it while driving by the Hooters parking lot.... > > Mark What I want to know is why you keep driving by the Hooters parking lot? -julianne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:48:33 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek Mark, then julianne: > That's so embarassing to me. This new wave of gender > specific? patriotism > (on sale at Wal-Mart...in the "seasonal" merchandise section) > is kind of > disturbing to me. If I see one more pickup truck with an > American flag > strapped to it while driving by the Hooters parking lot.... > What I want to know is why you keep driving by the Hooters parking lot? <><><><><><><><> I can't speak for Mark, but I only hang out there for the articles. - --D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:49:12 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com on 2001/09/20 Thu PM 04:48:33 MDT wrote: > Mark, then julianne: > > That's so embarassing to me. This new wave of gender > > specific? patriotism > > (on sale at Wal-Mart...in the "seasonal" merchandise section) > > is kind of > > disturbing to me. If I see one more pickup truck with an > > American flag > > strapped to it while driving by the Hooters parking lot.... > > > > > What I want to know is why you keep driving by the Hooters parking lot? > > <><><><><><><><> > > I can't speak for Mark, but I only hang out there for the articles. Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. Don't you know the standard response is "I only go there for the tasty Hot Wings"? Of course, I also go there to watch Bobby Brown (with his bodyguards) make an ass out of himself with the waitresses while Whitney is in the hospital having a miscarriage, but that's just me. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:43:36 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] courage, happy thoughts, cake, ophelia (ns) >Of course, I also go there to watch Bobby Brown (with his bodyguards) >make an ass out of himself with the waitresses while Whitney is in the >hospital having a miscarriage, but that's just me. >>>>>>>>>>> I have to salute Roger for having the courage to post that, knowing full well that it's entirely possible that we'll all be killed in the impending war at any time, and that that post could constitute his final words to the world. Me, I'm only thinking nice thoughts. Not sure if it's worth mentioning, but Cake is/are on Jay Leno tonight, or so I heard. Also, I *finally* found a copy of the Ophelias' self titled album, with the version of "Mr. Rabbit" on it, that they used to play to death at the Vassar radio station when I was attending. Strangely, it sounds every bit as good as I'd remembered it, which came as a nice surprise. Anyways, does anyone happen to know anything much about this strange band, whose releases seem to be all over the map? Allmusic wasn't too helpful, and everything they did appears to be out of print. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:25:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > Of course, I also go there to watch Bobby Brown (with his bodyguards) > make an ass out of himself with the waitresses while Whitney is in the > hospital having a miscarriage, but that's just me. On the bus to work from the park & ride today, I was subjected to the radio playing America's fave crack addict bellowing our national anthem as if it were written in a language she didn't understand - all bombast, all the time - even though, remember, it's actually a question. Time again to point to Tris McCall's wonderful essay on that anthem - I couldn't find it online, so I've attached it as a text file. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::The dog-eared pages, the highlighted passages, the margin ::notations...this book has actually been read: it can't be a student's! __Jose Chung__ It's not an easy song, and it isn't meant to be. It's a series of open questions, and an anonymous, urgent request to the listener that she find answers to those questions for herself. It's a historical narrative, a documentary record of a moment of spectacular national fragility. It's a challenge and a riddle, inscribed in convoluted but penetrating and unforgettable syntax. Unluckily for us, as anybody who's ever been to a ballgame can attest, "The Star-Spangled Banner" has suffered through years of torment by operatic bozos who are plainly not thinking about the words they're singing. I can't remember the last time I heard a performance of our national anthem that was genuinely *communicative*; i.e., one where the performer was committed to posing the questions in the song to the audience. It's been converted into a purely athletic phenomenon, a hurdle that we all must leap simultaneously in order to get to the first pitch, and the singers bombastically hold the high notes and screech out the middle eight, giving no thought whatsoever to the fragility and tenuousness implied by the lyrics, and the very potent and still unanswered questions embedded in the verses. Like all hit songs, from "Yankee Doodle" to "I Want it That Way," "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written at a particular place and time, and that historical context informs (or ought to) our understanding of the lyrics. Now, "I Want it That Way" masks its context, and therefore its cultural meaning, behind relatively generic love lyrics, so we are perhaps pardoned for taking it at face value. But with "The Star Spangled Banner" we have no such luxury--the song was written, and is set during, the most desperate hours of the War of 1812; specifically, during the British siege of Baltimore. At the moment of inscription, smart money would certainly have had it that the American experiment was about to come to a premature end in a flash of fury from Liverpool gunboats. That's not hidden: the presence of risk and threat, the difficulty and vexation inherent in nation formation, is vested in every syllable of the verses. Let's get more specific about the conditions of production of our national anthem: At the time of Francis Scott Key's writing, British soldiers had captured Washington, looted and burned the city, and sent President Madison fleeing into the countryside. The question of national civic authority was very much an open one. The war effort was faring badly on all fronts, and the British Navy had made it evident that any coastal city was susceptible to immediate capture and destruction. Stop and imagine that for a second, New Yorkers. America was comprised of three distinct and only vaguely interdependent regions (northeast, south, and west), and while reasons for hanging together were no doubt evident, equally articulate reasons for hanging separately were more than ambient. To that end, delegates from New England states, most of whom favored immediate settlement with Lord Castlereagh and the British government, met at Hartford to discuss secession from the union. The house of cards was tottering. If not for the defense of Fort McHenry (that's the precise event depicted in "The Star-Spangled Banner"), the British army would have captured Baltimore and delivered a savage blow to American autonomy that would have shaken the commonwealth to its foundation In his documentation of the action in Baltimore Harbor, Key inscribes the indeterminacy of the historical moment into his verse, and, like many literary works forged in the heat of great political and national crisis, the vehicle fashioned there and then proved both durable and farsighted. The first verse is generally rendered like this: O say can you see By the dawn's early light What so proudly we hailed At the twilight's last gleaming, Omitting the final question mark (and perhaps there's good reason to: the question, after all, seeps into the second verse), we trip over the syntax, but it isn't impenetrable. Look closely, think for a second, and the question he's asking is readily manifest: we saluted the flag last night, can you see it this morning? Here, as elsewhere, the onus is placed on the listener; he is asked to "say" if he can see the flag. Key doesn't tell us whether *he* can see the flag or not, and it's probably immaterial. The author posits a condition where we proudly saluted the nation before nightfall, and now, in the dawn's early light, he wants to direct our attention, which may have been wandering, back to the flag and its evident meaning. We continue: Whose broad stripes and bright stars Through the perilous fight O'er the ramparts we watched Were so gallantly streaming? This is the most convoluted piece of syntax in the lyric, and it's the verse most usually mangled by the blunderbusses who sing "The Star-Spangled Banner" before sporting events. The ramparts aren't streaming, and the stars and stripes aren't fighting; rather, the lyric places the listener in the foxhole during the bombardment, peering out over barricades of our own construction. Our access to the flag and its synecdochal power is mediated not only by the peril on the other side of the divide, but by the ramparts we've thrown up to defend ourselves from threat. We're straining to see the flag and the gallantry it represents; but what we have to contend with is the actual material conditions of conflict and struggle. Key goes on to imply that it's that very conflict and struggle that makes realization of the flag, and nationhood, most manifest--but still, even at these instances, the flag isn't tangible, it's floating over the battle at some distance: And the rockets' red glare, The bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night That our flag was still there. Proof through the *night*, that is. But as Key makes clear in the first verse, it isn't night anymore. It's morning, and the fact that we could see the flag when illuminated by battle-rockets does not necessarily mean we can see it now. Key knows this; that's why the final line of the middle eight is written in the past tense, and the rest of the song in the present. Poor singers misinterpret this verse as a reassuring answer to all the troubling open questions--but look, the flag *was* still there; it's not clear at all whether it's there anymore as the first rays of sunlight peek over the ramparts we've thrown up. Now that the battle is over, can you see the flag? Can you conceptualize America? Or is it only visible to us when enemy rockets are exploding overhead? Is nationhood dependent on outside threat, or can we come together for the greater good during peacetime to achieve the objectives our founding patriots fought for? At a moment of great immediate crisis, Key has the balls to look to the future, and he asks us: O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free And the home of the brave? Again, the challenge is put to us to "say"; to speak out loud our answer to this elastic, nagging question in a genuine communicative discourse and exchange. Key's articulation of the situation, multifaceted as always, contains a trap for the unrigorous--the same flag that flew over Fort McHenry now flies over the American Legion Hall on Boulevard East, so in some important and irreducible way, answering "no" doesn't make sense-but can the American Legion Hall on Boulevard East, or, in fact, the constellation of towns represented by American Legion Halls scattered throughout the country, be called, poetically, the land of the free or the home of the brave? Do we see the flag at all--and if so, does the flag we see fly over a different sort of nation? Key wants *you* to say. Possible answers might include: - --no, we're a nation where millions of people, disproportionately black and Hispanic, languish in prison over petty offenses, so calling America "the land of the free" is currently meaningless; - --yes, here in America, we don't suffer the kind of restrictions on business practices and personal enterprise that have fettered the growth of the more socialized European countries that have proven less free and less brave; - --no, our politas suffers from a kind of collective cowardice where, though the rockets' red glare has long since faded, we keep the ramparts up against anybody suggesting any kind of collective action; - --yes, we have the strongest economy in the world, we produce the greatest amount of cultural meaning, we export ideas and practices throughout the globe, we're a model for forces of insurgents working against totalitarian governments in repressive countries, and we aid those brave insurgents where and we can; - --no, we see the flag only when we need to, when history tests ask us to, when the DMV asks us to, and generally we disregard our history and our nationhood, and we turn our attention elsewhere during the dawn's early light; - --yes, unlike Soviet Russia, we don't have a caretaker state: we have a community of consequence, where our actions have ramifications and we acquire reward only through risk, and this assures our vibrancy and the ascendancy of only the "brave"; - --no, the laborer working slave-hours in the maquiladora factories here in the heart of Union City is not free; the black man stopped and detained by police officers doing a "random" search on the turnpike is not free; the pot smoker who is thrown in prison for lighting up a bone on St. Mark's Place is not free; the gay man who gets beaten up, or merely ostracized, for kissing his boyfriend in public is not free; the policemen who shot Amadou Diallo may have *gone* free, but Diallo himself was at the mercy of the vagaries of an increasingly police, and policed, state; - --play ball. Notice that it is the last of these answers that is most frequently given, and I can't truly blame the crowd at Yankee Stadium today for refusing to take the opportunity given by a performance of the national anthem to ask themselves, and more importantly, "say" their own answers to the questions so urgently and eloquently posed by Francis Scott Key. They will be hot, impatient, and not particularly interested in political discourse, they're going to fidget through the anthem in anticipation of a strong outing by David Cone, and a possible victory over the Orioles. But if "The Star-Spangled Banner" were consistently rendered with *any* attention to the meaning of the words, I wager that it would prove thought-provoking, and thus I implore anthem singers to approach the lyric with sensitivity, clarity, and some modicum or vestige of patriotism. It is perpetually dispiriting to me that singers who have a genuinely captive audience of tens of thousands, and are charged with the performance of a song with tremendous importance and meaning, regularly fritter away their opportunity to communicate any of that meaning in a disgusting display of vulgar trills and pyrotechnic bosh. One final note, and then you can go and enjoy your hunks of barbecued meat: Periodically, there are movements mounted to replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" with a song that is "easier to sing." These movements are invariably hailed as democratic by misguided pundits who confuse egalitarianism with a universal desire to have everybody be exactly as stupid as they are, and the songs they nominate to replace "The Star-Spangled Banner" reflect their wholesome dimwittedness. I have nothing but respect for Woody Guthrie, but "This Land Is Your Land" is a hopeful, utopian song that would not reflect current American conditions and would thus become little more than a parody; and about the pastoral, acquisitive mess that is "America the Beautiful," the less said the better ("may God thy gold refine," indeed). These movements mistake the complicated reach of our current anthem, de-emphasize its fragility and elasticity, and shunt its perennial suitedness for its task. In its ambiguity and indeterminacy the listener finds its strength, and this American would argue that any anthem that does not emphasize the indeterminacy and fragility of nationhood is not an anthem at all--it's no more than a damned fight song. - --Tris McCall "a revolution always seems hopeless and impossible the day before it breaks out, and indeed never does break out until it seems hopeless and impossible ; for rulers who think it possible take care to insure the risk by ruling reasonably." -- bernard shaw, preface, *back to methuselah* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:32:32 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek At 08:25 PM 9/20/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Time again to point to Tris McCall's wonderful essay on that anthem Or, as Laurie Anderson said far more succinctly (paraphrasing): "Every other country's anthem is a 4/4 march that goes 'We're number ONE, this is the BEST place,' and 'The Star-Spangled Banner' basically boils down to, 'Hey, what's that over there? Isn't that a flag?'." Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:35:08 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] Saber rattling...or is this the real thing?? I'm watching the President (the one who lost) and, frankly, I'm scared. However we feel about Michael Moore, his letter today was really scary, talking about WAR, the new buzz word. He said things along the lines of, if we want war, we should know what it is, not the surgical strikes of that last 10 years, it's us killing people, and then waiting for another plane to crash into the Sears tower. At worst, it will be a devastatingly horrendous thing to live through, and it may be too real for many of us to take, which should repulse us into forcing it to end. 'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:37:06 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: [loud-fans] How is 'terror' pronounced?? Is he condemning Scarlett O'Hara's plantation. He keeps harping about 'Tara'. 'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:07:19 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek In a message dated 9/20/01 4:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Overall_Julianne@isus.emc.com writes: > What I want to know is why you keep driving by the Hooters parking lot? > > -julianne > > > > Well, I've heard the food is outstanding (wink wink, nudge nudge). I drive by, intending to go in, then, at the last minute, I chicken out. Seriously, it is at the intersection of two major streets where I live, and I have to pass it on the way to my night job and back. Mark np Talk Talk "The Party's Over" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:30:39 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] courage, happy thoughts, cake, ophelia (ns) Dana L Paoli wrote: > > Also, I *finally* found a copy of the Ophelias' self titled album, with > the version of "Mr. Rabbit" on it, that they used to play to death at the > Vassar radio station when I was attending. Strangely, it sounds every > bit as good as I'd remembered it, which came as a nice surprise. > Anyways, does anyone happen to know anything much about this strange > band, whose releases seem to be all over the map? Allmusic wasn't too > helpful, and everything they did appears to be out of print. All I know is that they are from CA, I always liked them, and you are probably the first person I've ever heard mention them outside of WPRB radio and whatever record store I found their stuff in way back when. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:50:54 EDT From: Vivebonpop@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek In a message dated 9/20/01 10:25:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: > How strange. Shari and I just finished blissing out to "Spirit of Eden" > followed by "Laughing Stock." I wonder if there's something in the air? > > --dana > > > Well, I'll tell you. Now, I've been guilty in the past of getting too personal on list I know, and I mention the following to you and everybody because I'm mourning a friend, and I was hoping that everyone could think a kind thought or prayer for him. My best friend from childhood, Steven, is in the final stages of AIDS, and I was listening to Talk Talk because it always makes me think of him. He turned me on to them back in '84 when he bought "It's My Life." He also turned me on to the Plimsouls and the Payolas and some others. His taste is eclectic. In high school, it wasn't unusual to hear Prince followed by Talk Talk followed by Andreas Vollenweider in his bedroom. Steven was the most gifted artist in my high school, and won several awards, and went on to be accepted to F.I.T. (Fashion Institute of Technology) in New York when we were young to study menswear. Steven taught me much about style and music (I turned him on to Game Theory). Because of him, I know how to dress without looking like I resorted to having to match Garanimal labels. Steven has gone into seclusion and is only seeing his partner of the last 12 years and his parents. He won't see me or anyone else, and I was just thinking about him and reminiscing and really wanting to see him, but he's very proud, and doesn't want to be seen in his present condition. Again, I mention all of this not to be a drama queen, but because I was hoping that everyone could think a kind thought or prayer for him. I'm a firm believer in the power of prayer. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:07:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Stewart Mason wrote: > At 08:25 PM 9/20/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > >Time again to point to Tris McCall's wonderful essay on that anthem > > Or, as Laurie Anderson said far more succinctly (paraphrasing): "Every > other country's anthem is a 4/4 march that goes 'We're number ONE, this is > the BEST place,' and 'The Star-Spangled Banner' basically boils down to, > 'Hey, what's that over there? Isn't that a flag?'." Which is the exact opposite of what Tris' essay says, to wit "Is there a flag? There was one last night." J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:09:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Tori? (ns) On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Ian Runeckles & Angela Bennett wrote: > PS Any opinions on The Strokes? Getting loadsa hype over here. Second-rate new-wave punkettes with more hype than talent. Surprise x 2. J. Mallon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Dan Rather and Michael Moore Having read the Salon article, I agree with almost all of it. Watching both David Letterman and Dan Rather break down Monday night helped me understand just how real and terrible the devastation is. While I knew intellectually how horrible the tragedy of last week was, since I don't live in NYC or DC, and no one I knew personally was involved, my grief (what of it I am entitled to) was more abstract: "How awful, and everything will be different now..." Seeing the man I consider most responsible for inspiring the sheen of irony and detachment with which I (and, I would venture to say, many of the people on this list) coat most of my perceptions of the outside world break down, so affected by the horror that he was unable to maintain that detachment, brought home the gravity of the situation to me in a way that all the images of the tower collapsing weren't able to. Shame on me for not being able to feel the misery of others more keenly. Shame on anyone who would take Dan Rather to task for responding in a human way to that misery. To those who claim he should've maintainted his composure, or that he was too jingoistic, I say "Go to the blast site and stand there for a few hours. Think about how many people have died, that each of them has a family that will never see their loved one again. Tell me then that you don't feel like crying and lashing out." Let Michael Moore and his callow ilk bash away at the government for the lack of security and wag their fingers at the US, claiming we've reaped what we've sown. The latter is most likely true, and the action in which we are engaging will probably generate more hatred. There are few actions anyone can take that do not engender that response in someone in the world. As for Moore's post being his own diary aimed at his fans, if it's on the Web, it's in the public domain, and deserves comment. For the jingoistic "America rules" contingent, there is an equally knee-jerk reaction from the "America is a pit of venality" contingent who have used the tragedy as a reason to disparage America. What a surprise that all three of the alt-weeklies in this area are full of teeth-gnashing over the warmongering US...oh, and yes, the incredible loss of life. Should America reconsider its cultural imperialism? Yes. Is it still a pretty good country to live in? Yes. Do I want to go to war? No. Does anyone? I don't think answering violence with violence is always, or even often, the right answer, but some actions demand response, and causing the death of 5000+ of one's innocent countryfolk is one of them. - -mongering, J. Mallon ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #240 *******************************