From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #238 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, September 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 238 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response [steve ] Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response [Jon Tveite ] [loud-fans] Michael Moore ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore ["O Geier" ] Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore ["Aaron Milenski" ] Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore [Jon Tveite ] Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] Michael Moore [zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 07:56:50 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson of the right, and it's nice to see that he's pretty much trashed any small influence that remained. Sadly, Michael Moore and the NY Time's Frank Rich remain respected on the left, even after announcing that we deserved a terrorist attack for turning our backs on the Great Spirit of the Kyoto Treaty. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:51:09 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response On Wednesday, September 19, 2001, at 06:56 AM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson of the right, and it's nice > to see > that he's pretty much trashed any small influence that remained. The difference is that Falwell and Robertson actually believe what they say, and it's the retractions that are bogus. It would be more accurate to compare them to the Taliban. And they have plenty of fellow travelers. - - Steve __________ You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test. - George W. Bush ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:17:09 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response Tony Auth agrees: 'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' >From: steve >To: loud-fans@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response >Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:51:09 -0500 > >On Wednesday, September 19, 2001, at 06:56 AM, JRT456@aol.com >wrote: > >>Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson of the right, and it's >>nice >>to see >>that he's pretty much trashed any small influence that remained. > >The difference is that Falwell and Robertson actually believe what >they >say, and it's the retractions that are bogus. It would be more >accurate >to compare them to the Taliban. And they have plenty of fellow >travelers. > > > >- Steve > > >__________ >You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a >literacy >test. - George W. Bush [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ta010918.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:19:59 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response I'll try again: Tony Auth agrees: http://www2.uclick.com/client/nyt/ta/ 'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' >From: "O Geier" >To: steveschiavo@mac.com, loud-fans@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response >Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:17:09 +0000 > >Tony Auth agrees: > > > >'What does it mean, Number 6?' 'It means what it is' >From: steve >To: >loud-fans@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response >Date: Wed, >19 Sep 2001 08:51:09 -0500 > >On Wednesday, September 19, 2001, at 06:56 >AM, JRT456@aol.com >wrote: > >>Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson >of the right, and it's >>nice >>to see >>that he's pretty much trashed >any small influence that remained. > >The difference is that Falwell and >Robertson actually believe what >they >say, and it's the retractions that >are bogus. It would be more >accurate >to compare them to the Taliban. >And they have plenty of fellow >travelers. > > > >- Steve > > >__________ > >You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a > >literacy >test. - George W. Bush > >[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ta010918.gif] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:14:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson of the right, and it's nice > to see that he's pretty much trashed any small influence that > remained. I don't think that's fair to Jackson, who is certainly capable of hyperbolic excess but at least lives on Planet Earth, unlike Falwell. If you connect the dots, Falwell believes Teletubbies helped to cause the disaster last week. > Sadly, Michael Moore and the NY Time's Frank Rich remain respected on > the left, even after announcing that we deserved a terrorist attack > for turning our backs on the Great Spirit of the Kyoto Treaty. Speaking of credibility, you would help your own if you'd cite your source on Moore. I've read all his essays since 9/11 and I haven't seen any reference to Kyoto, or anything that suggests we "deserved" the attack. Turning our back on Kyoto is not the cause of anything. It is, rather, the effect of American arrogance, which, along with a thousand other things, has contributed to the bitterness and anger that many people around the world feel toward us. Let's all try not to oversimplify things. I know this is a stressful time. I know we have a lot of tough decisions to make, and that can seem easier if you reduce everything to black and white. But that won't ultimately serve us well. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:28:31 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: [loud-fans] Michael Moore I generally love the guy, but I have to agree that Moore has really gone off the deep end here. He posted several messages about the attack on his website. Here's the one from the day after, in which he makes a fool out of himself when he, among other things, finds it unlikely that the terrorists took over the planes and flew them. Posted 09.12.2001 Death, Downtown Dear friends, I was supposed to fly today on the 4:30 PM American Airlines flight from LAX to JFK. But tonight I find myself stuck in L.A. with an incredible range of emotions over what has happened on the island where I work and live in New York City. My wife and I spent the first hours of the day  after being awakened by phone calls from our parents at 6:40am PT  trying to contact our daughter at school in New York and our friend JoAnn who works near the World Trade Center. I called JoAnn at her office. As someone picked up, the first tower imploded, and the person answering the phone screamed and ran out, leaving me no clue as to whether or not she or JoAnn would live. It was a sick, horrible, frightening day. On December 27, 1985 I found myself caught in the middle of a terrorist incident at the Vienna airport  which left 30 people dead, both there and at the Rome airport. (The machine-gunning of passengers in each city was timed to occur at the same moment.) I do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still brings up too much despair and confusion as to how and why I got to live a fluke, a mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and I am still here, there but for the grace of Safe. Secure. Im an American, living in America. I like my illusions. I walk through a metal detector, I put my carry-ons through an x-ray machine, and I know all will be well. Heres a short list of my experiences lately with airport security: * At the Newark Airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. The counter cant find my seat. So I am told to just go ahead and get on  without a ticket! * At Detroit Metro Airport, I dont want to put the lunch I just bought at the deli through the x-ray machine so, as I pass through the metal detector, I hand the sack to the guard through the space between the detector and the x-ray machine. I tell him Its just a sandwich. He believes me and doesnt bother to check. The sack has gone through neither security device. * At LaGuardia in New York, I check a piece of luggage, but decide to catch a later plane. The first plane leaves without me, but with my bag  no one knowing what is in it. * Back in Detroit, I take my time getting off the commuter plane. By the time I have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers to the terminal has left  without me. I am alone on the tarmac, free to wander wherever I want. So I do. Eventually, I flag down a pick-up truck and an airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the terminal. * I have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion brought a hammer and chisel. No one stopped us. Of course, I have gotten away with all of this because the airlines consider my safety SO important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour to make sure the bad guys dont get on my plane. That is what my life is worth  less than the cost of an oil change. Too harsh, you say? Well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on American Eagle (the commuter arm of American Airlines) receives around $15,000 a year in annual pay. Thats right  $15,000 for the person who has your life in his hands. Until recently, Continental Express paid a little over $13,000 a year. There was one guy, an American Eagle pilot, who had four kids so he went down to the welfare office and applied for food stamps  and he was eligible! Someone on welfare is flying my plane? Is this for real? Yes, it is. So spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the FAA is taking. They, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing  the bottom line and the profit margin. Four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? My only response is  thats all? Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the terrorist threat and todays scariest dude on planet earth  Osama bin Laden. Hey, who knows, maybe he did it. But, something just doesnt add up. Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves today? Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause  but FOUR? Ok, maybe you can  I dont know. What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about this bin Laden guy except this one fact  WE created the monster known as Osama bin Laden! Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA! Dont take my word for it  I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that laid it all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained him and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the Soviet forces. It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques against us. We abhor terrorism  unless were the ones doing the terrorizing. We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in the 1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work. You and me. Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers! We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of innocent people, and we never let the human suffering THAT causes to interrupt our day one single bit. We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in Salvador) that I suppose we shouldnt be too surprised when those orphans grow up and are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause. Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted by a guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of ex-military guys who hated the federal government. From the first minutes of todays events, I never heard that possibility suggested. Why is that? Maybe its because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient in getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the all-important race card. Its much easier to get us to hate when the object of our hatred doesnt look like us. Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money for the military; one Senator on CNN even said he didnt want to hear any more talk about more money for education or health care  we should have only one priority: our self-defense. Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when the rest of the world isnt living in poverty so we can have nice running shoes? In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. He withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban conference on racism, insists on restarting the arms race  you name it, and Baby Bush has blown it all. The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous version of God Bless America. Theyre not a bad group of singers! Yes, God, please do bless us. Lets mourn, lets grieve, and when its appropriate lets examine our contribution to the unsafe world we live in. It doesnt have to be like this _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:42:25 +0000 From: "O Geier" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore <> He said no such thing. He doubts an airline pilot would fly them into buildings. He did not say 'the terrorists did not fly the planes'. He says that whomever flew them are not your typical 'willing to strap dynamite on their back and drive it into the compound' type. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:51:27 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore >He said no such thing. He doubts an airline pilot would fly them into >buildings. He did not say 'the terrorists did not fly the planes'. He >says that whomever flew them are not your typical 'willing to strap >dynamite on their back and drive it into the compound' type. Keep in mind that I've been a big fan of Moore for years. He was saying it was unlikely that four such people could exist, and, of course, in a few days he was proven very wrong. I just think the problem with him is that he often speaks without having all of the information he needs to form an opinion, and in so doing so I think he strains his own credibility, and ultimately the credibility of people like myself who believe in many of the same concepts he does. If someone is a spokesperson for certain points of view, they'll be taken seriously whether they've put thought into their comments or not (and those comments will be used by those who oppose them). As far as I can see, that's also one of the problems with Jesse Jackson, that he often says something on the spur of the moment, then rather than even admitting he might have made a mistake, pushes on with the error. I don't choose not to listen to people like Moore or Jackson, but I'm sure to put everything they say into context. By the way, does anyone here know what Ralph Nader has had to say about all of this? I'm curious. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:53:22 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path? Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves today? Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause  but FOUR? Ok, maybe you can  I dont know. >>>>>>>>> It's pretty badly written, but I'm reasonably sure that the point he's trying to make is that the training came ultimately from the US, hence the paragraphs that follow. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:31:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Tveite Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Michael Moore On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > It's pretty badly written, but I'm reasonably sure that the point he's > trying to make is that the training came ultimately from the US, hence > the paragraphs that follow. Yeah, that's the way I read it, too. If nothing else, it certainly expresses the disbelief at the whole situation which I'm sure many of us felt for days afterward. It still seems too unreal to fully grasp. Michael Moore has always been more of an agitator than a journalist. He aims to rile people up. I don't think anyone looks to him for his objectivity, or as a voice of authority. These essays he's been writing are basically personal e-mails to his fans -- not journalism. They get bounced around, chopped up, taken out of context, etc. He should be held accountable for his words, but not at the same level of somebody writing for a journal of record like the NY Times or CBS News. Speaking of the latter, has anyone else been sickened by Dan Rather's response to this series of events? I was already tired of his blatant war-mongering before Monday night, but his appearance on Letterman was still shocking to me. He said, "Wherever the President wants me to line up, I'm there," or words to that effect. He really should resign his post if he has no better sense of the vital role a strong, free press is supposed to play in our society. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:49:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Jon Tveite wrote: > hyperbolic excess but at least lives on Planet Earth, unlike Falwell. If > you connect the dots, Falwell believes Teletubbies helped to cause the > disaster last week. Well yeah, but that *does* seem plausible. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I play the guitar. Sometimes I play the fool:: __John Lennon__ np: A.R. Kane...forget the title... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:00:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Jon Tveite wrote: > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > > > Falwell has always been the Jesse Jackson of the right, and it's nice > > to see that he's pretty much trashed any small influence that > > remained. > > Sadly, Michael Moore and the NY Time's Frank Rich remain respected on > > the left, even after announcing that we deserved a terrorist attack > > for turning our backs on the Great Spirit of the Kyoto Treaty. > > Speaking of credibility, you would help your own if you'd cite your source > on Moore. I've read all his essays since 9/11 and I haven't seen any > reference to Kyoto, or anything that suggests we "deserved" the attack. What Moore says in the e-mail Aaron copied to the list is that if Osama bin Laden is behind the attacks, we should remember that he was once on the CIA payroll. We backed him during the Cold War to help fight the resistance against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That's something to remember when Dick Cheney starts talking about how we're going to have to pay some untrustworthy people to get info. (Also begging the question: if they're untrustworthy, why should we trust them? I sure hope no one's planning on giving those people any serious information or access...) While he does speculate (before knowing more) that the media was too quick to assume that radical Islam was responsible, mentioning OKC and Timothy McVeigh to support his point, that's not exactly the same thing as blaming the US. He's saying: until we know who did it, we do not know that it wasn't done by someone like McVeigh, who had US military training and used it at OKC. Unfortunately, that is a reasonable statement. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::flag on the moon...how'd it get there?:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:15:02 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel last week This just in from sonicnet.com's Music News Of The World: Songs by Alien Ant Farm, Drowning Pool, Led Zeppelin Deemed Questionable Clear Channel program directors consider sensitivity issues related to more than 150 tracks. "Things are different now," a news anchor commented last Tuesday while covering the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. Those words continue to resonate a week later, with sports, travel and entertainment all vastly affected by the East Coast tragedies. In the music industry, the biggest changes are occurring on the air as radio stations around the country alter their playlists to reflect the radically different context in which pop music is now heard as compared to when the music was originally written and recorded. As Bob Buchmann, program director at WAXQ in New York, put it, "The Steve Miller Band's 'Jet Airliner' doesn't evoke the same feeling it did last Monday." Radio stations are rethinking the music they play, removing songs dealing with violence and questioning just about everything else. Program directors at Clear Channel Communications, the country's largest owner of radio stations, compiled a list of more than 150 songs that might be considered questionable following the attacks and distributed it to the company's nearly 1,200 stations across the country. Tracks relating to explosions, terrorism, airplanes, skyscrapers, New York, the Middle East and even the day Tuesday comprise the list. The songs range from rock anthems such as AC/DC's "Shot Down in Flames" and Stone Temple Pilots' "Big Bang Baby" to oldies such as the Gap Band's "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" and Oingo Boingo's "Dead Man's Party." Other less obvious songs on the list include Frank Sinatra's "New York, New York," Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Tuesday's Gone" and Simon and Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water." Pam Taylor, a spokesperson for Clear Channel, stressed Monday that this list is not a corporate mandate and does not ban the songs from the company's airwaves. "It's something for programmers to consider," explained Jim Richards, general manager of several Clear Channel stations in San Diego, who helped assemble the list. While the radio and record industries seem to agree on the necessity for heightened sensitivity following the attacks, several musicians and their representatives are puzzled by the inclusion of songs on the list. Some even thought the list was a joke. "'Smooth Criminal' is like the funnest song out there," Alien Ant Farm singer Dryden Mitchell said. "We sing in falsetto," Mitchell continued. "It's supposedly about murder, but nobody really knows what that song is about, including me. The last thing we are is some serious band. We're just positive and funny." The Michael Jackson-penned song is among a batch of new metal tracks that includes P.O.D.'s "Boom," System of a Down's "Chop Suey!," Slipknot's "Left Behind" and "Wait and Bleed," Mudvayne's "Death Blooms," Fuel's "Bad Day," Bush's "Speed Kills" and everything by Rage Against the Machine. Adam Raspler, co-manager of 311, whose "Down" is on the list presumably because the song's title could imply airplanes or buildings coming down, echoed Mitchell's sentiments. "I realize this is a very sensitive time for many Americans and I'm definitely sympathetic to that," he said. "I really don't understand [including] 'Down.' The song is a thank-you note to 311's fans. The chorus says, 'We've changed a lot and then some/ But you know that we have always been down/ If I ever didn't thank you/ Please just let me do it now.' 311 have always prided themselves on having a positive message, one that promotes unity and tolerance. I really don't think there's anything insensitive or controversial about 'Down.'" Roy Laughlin, general manager of the Clear Channel-owned KIIS in Los Angeles, said the songs should be looked at as potentially provocative rather than questionable. Laughlin and Taylor said program directors know what music is appropriate for their respective markets. "Of course there are songs on there that could be construed as insensitive given the events. But does that mean all stations in all markets are going to think so? Of course not," Taylor said. Buchmann said the roster has had no impact on his playlist or that of most classic-rock stations he has talked to. Classic-rock songs on the list include Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven," Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust," Kansas' "Dust in the Wind," Elton John's "Rocket Man" and Jerry Lee Lewis' "Great Balls of Fire." "The program directors who made the list had good intentions," Buchmann said, "but we didn't follow much of it." In fact, WAXQ has been playing John Lennon's "Imagine," which is on the list, in heavy rotation since the September 11 attacks. Radio stations not owned by Clear Channel have also altered their playlists during the past week. Chicago alternative-rock station WKQX has not played the Drowning Pool's "Bodies," Saliva's "Click Click Boom" or the Foo Fighters' "Learn to Fly" since Tuesday's tragedies. The station's announcers have also stopped mentioning the title of Jimmy Eat World's "Bleed American" when they play it. "'Learn to Fly' doesn't seem offensive," Brian Paruch, of WKQX's programming department, said. "But when you consider the video, which is about breaking into a cockpit, it just didn't seem right. We had to do a lot of other adjusting after this happened. For instance, we're not playing funny songs such as 'Because I Got High' after serious PSAs [public service announcements]." WKQX also temporarily stopped spinning one of its most requested songs, Sugarcult's "Stuck in America," but started again after the band changed a line in the song from "Everyone's talking about blowing up the neighborhood" to "Everyone's talking about waking up the neighborhood." "'Stuck in America' is not a political song," Sugarcult said in a statement. "It is about being an adolescent from a small town, wanting to leave for a bigger city but feeling trapped in suburban life. It is simply a song about youthful boredom and rebellion. We are proud Americans and are overwhelmed with sorrow by the events that have taken place." WNNX, an alternative-rock station in Atlanta, has also ceased playing "Bodies," and program director Chris Williams said he couldn't imagine a time when it feels right to put it back on the air. "It's just too much," said Williams, who has seen the list and called most of the choices "silly." "Bodies" mostly repeats the chorus, "Let the bodies hit the floor," but also includes the verse, "Skin against skin, blood and bone/ You're all by yourself, but you're not alone/ You wanted in, now you're here/ Driven by hate, consumed by fear." "'Bodies' was never about violence," said Steve Karas, vice president of publicity for Wind-up Records, Drowning Pool's label. "It was rather a call for togetherness. As a New York-based company we are very sensitive, as we have all been affected by the tragedy. But that doesn't change the simple fact that from the beginning this song was always about the simple call for kids to mosh." Laughlin, one of the list makers, said he and other program directors are reassessing the need for heightened sensitivity on a day-to-day basis. "That's one of the advantages of radio," he said. "We can make changes at any moment."  Corey Moss, with additional reporting by Jennifer Vineyard [ Wed., September 19, 2001 7:57 AM EDT ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:21:43 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Falwell response Compare the outraged spewings of Michael Moore and Frank Rich to Jerry Falwell, and the only real difference remains that Falwell made his pronouncements as an expression of his religous beliefsband it's my understanding that we're supposed to be especially tolerant of religous beliefs nowadays. Also, it's going to be hard to source Michael Moore's statements. He complained, for example, that the terrorists didn't attack a city where they could have killed more Republicans. Moore doesn't bother to stand behind those statements, and he certainly doesn't apologize. He just scurries to then remove those words from his site. (And it's interesting that Moore assumes that people in the financial industry are good Democrats. I guess he musters a lot of delusion while checking to see how his investments are doing.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:26:01 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel last week And on this important issue, we might as well state the obvious: Clear Channel's intent with the song list isn't about censorship. It's about removing any opportunity for an oblivious chatty DJ to make some stupid glib comment and offend the listening public. And, considering most DJ's, that's an understandable corporate concern. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:27:50 -0700 From: rlewis@adnc.com (Russ Lewis) Subject: [loud-fans] Scramarama The Loons. Starting out as a high-powered Dutch-influenced R&B act, San Diego's Loons have evolved into a thoughtful and sometimes psychedelic ensemble, with great hooks and the visual delights of Mike Stax's electrocuted stage moves. A Loons show is always a treat, and it wouldn't be Scramarama without them. Yes, that's THE Mike Stax, annotator of the Nuggets boxes, publisher of _Ugly Things,_ and genuinely cool, nice guy. Knows more about '60s garage bands than the whole Loudfan brain trust. Scott Tissue El Cajon CA live on-line: KCR (Kill Corporate Radio) http://www.KCRlive.com Polluting the airwaves of otherwise beautiful San Diego. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:12:36 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel last week From Andy's fwd re: Clear Channel's list: "The program directors who made the list had good intentions," Buchmann said, "but we didn't follow much of it." In fact, WAXQ has been playing John Lennon's "Imagine," which is on the list, in heavy rotation since the September 11 attacks. <><><><><><><><> I just heard "Imagine" on WJFK, a Clear Channel owned oldies station here in Chicago. - --D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:54:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel last week On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > The station's announcers have also stopped > mentioning the title of Jimmy Eat World's "Bleed American" when they play > it. More hoaxing: in order to stop mentioning the title, they'd need to have mentioned it in the first place. Back-announcing is a lost art, as far as I can hear. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Sting, where is thy death?:: __Alan Gray_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 16:05:55 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] FYI: "Imagine" banned on Clear Channel lastweek JRT456@aol.com wrote: > > And on this important issue, we might as well state the obvious: Clear > Channel's intent with the song list isn't about censorship. It's about > removing any opportunity for an oblivious chatty DJ to make some stupid glib > comment and offend the listening public. And, considering most DJ's, that's > an understandable corporate concern. It will never be possible to remove every opportunity for DJ's to make stupid glib comments unless we remove DJ's from the picture entirely. My clock radio woke me a couple of days ago with Nazareth's song about "now you're messin with a son of a bitch," at the conclusion of which the DJ joyfully pronounced, "Yeah! Now you're messin with the red, white, and blue." Puleeeze. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 16:46:01 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] Jozef Becker sighting Graves Brothers Deluxe _Little Love Things_ www.gravesbrothers.com becker on three tracks. features other thin white rope alumni, roger kunkel, and band leader "stoo(ert) odom" played with stoo's other band, psych/drone/experimentalists subarachnoid space the other night; had a blast. becker's only on three tracks, definitely a livelier touch than the other drummer, bruce todd, not that he's bad or anything. sounds pretty good, riyl thin white rope, i suppose; reminds me a little of recent frank black in places too (esp. "the goddamned sky"). don't sound much like loudfam or anything. they're playing in october in oakland with a band called "here comes everybody" but i guess that counts more as a joyce reference than a scott reference?? still, kinda cute. does this count as on-topic? - -- d. - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:37:09 -0500 From: zkk46@ttacs.ttu.edu Subject: [loud-fans] Michael Moore Aaron Milenski: >I generally love the guy, but I have to agree that >Moore has really gone off >the deep end here. He posted several messages about >the attack on his >website. Here's the one from the day after, in which >he makes a fool out of >himself when he, among other things, finds it unlikely >that the terrorists >took over the planes and flew them. >> I don't even really like Michael Moore very much, but I'll defend him by saying that he too was probably very angry about the event, speculating before we had learned much about the hijackers, and typing in more of a Thoureau-type free verse fashion rather than a factual-type report. I do think he skirts around some interesting points, though, but maybe not in the way he had intended. First is that airport security basically worked. The terrorists didn't have bombs, guns, or much of anything that a person would really consider enough of a weapon to take over an airplane with more than 20 people on it. We will probably ban knives on airplanes after this, but it wouldn't have really changed the outcome. Broken bottles would have been enough. Even if the airlines / military had known about the hijackings, what could they have really done? What will have to change is the fundamental way that we deal with such attacks. The old way was that when terrorists took over planes, the usual thing they wanted was some money, or a comrade released. In that light, it is easy to see why the change of course was taken with less alarm than it maybe was. The new way is that they might be willing to use the plane as a weapon, and that thought will have to hang in the pilots' and the passengers mind. What the solution to this change is though, I don't even wish to speculate. Whether an air marshal, or vigilance on the part of the passengers, or extreme background checks on all passengers, or ground override controls on planes, or that all passengers sit encased in individual plastic bubbles during flights, we won't know until a situation happens again. The second thing is this statement, taken from about the middle of his message "We abhor terrorism unless we're the ones doing the terrorizing." I think that it was very easy to galvanize the entire US population against the entire middle east (figuratively, of course) because the terrorists never came out to say what we had done to them/ what they were doing this to prove. It makes this come off as not a retaliation, but just a simple cheap shot. That's why even Dan Rather is ready to pick up his M4 and go get somebody. In our defense though, the spirit and community shown by people in support of the victims of this tragedy have been the most comforting part of the whole event. I think that over just a little bit more time, people will start to want healing more, and bombing of the Taliban less. I work with a huge number of people from India, Israel, Turkey, and Pakistan, and Russia (consulting company based in Israel) and they have grieved along with those of us who are native Americans, so the small amount of hostility they have received has been quite refreshing. I wish it could have been none, but this has been much less than I was expecting. In other news, the Clear Channel stations in the DFW area didn't follow the executives' decision to not play the songs on the inappropriate list. I heard that horrid drowning pool song quite a few times, and alot of the others as well. I think I would have been willing to give up "Imagine" for a week or so, in exchange for not playing alot of those other songs, not because they weren't appropriate in light of the events, but because they aren't very good. VH1 and MTV on the other hand, were actually pretty good, after they back to relatively normal programming and away from CBS coverage. Jeff Buckley, REM, and some other really good artists showed up in video on both channels, and the aggro-rage thing, teen pop, and diva soul were at a minimum for 3 or 4 days. Another random point, it has been disturbing how many cd covers, movie posters, movies, etc have been redone in light of the recent events. Apparently the world trade centers were icons of America as much as the White House was... Finally, I was watching teletubbies the other day, and one was having a birthday party, and they were all wearing hats. The purple one (supposedly homosexual) knocked off one of the other one's hat, and it bent over to pick up its hat. The purple one then took one of those party blower things (the thing that rolls out when you blow into it) and started blowing it at the bottom of the other teletubby. the one that was bent over getting its hat stayed bent over and started bouncing up and down while the tip of the party blower thing moved up and down on its bottom. Quite a strange scene, really, like something out of a bad porn. I have to wonder if they do stuff like that to mess with old Jerry, or if i just have a dirty mind in the mornings. hmmmm.. all right (oh yeah) Andrew np: milton mapes: the state line ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #238 *******************************