From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #207 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, August 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 207 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck [John F Butland ] Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music [Steve Holtebeck ] [loud-fans] Tris McCall did not write a song about me [Jeffrey with 2 Fs ] Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall did not write a song about me [Chris Prew ] Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... [John Cooper ] [loud-fans] eat my tuna, star kisser [dmw ] [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) [Dana L Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck At 11:46 PM 01-08-21 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > >> Whoops, I forgot that I needed to wish a Happy Birthday to the Man Who >> Knows Everything There Is To Know About Pop Music, Mr. Steve >> Holtebeck. Happy Birthday, Steve!! I hope you had a good one, sparky. >> >> Also, allow me to Toast Mr. John Butland, since it's his birthday >> too. Here's to you, spanky. >> >> And I see that a certain mr. aaron mandel should've celebrated his birthday >> yesterday... Hmmm, it doesn't appear that he posted anything today. I hope >> you overdid the celebrating, spunky! > >I would second all these birthday wishes, but isn't it obvious that >birthdays used to be a whole lot better than they are nowadays? > Thank y'all for the good wishes (puns included). And I think that Jeff's right - *I* certainly don't get nearly as much good shit as I used to on my birthday. Although Beth did spring for Chinese delivery last night in honor of my birthday. best, jfb John F Butland O- butland@nbnet.nb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:23:01 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music Dan Sallitt wrote: > > So that's why I find it mysterious that Ryko labeled "Dream Lover" a bonus > > track: how can there be bonus tracks to an album whose official tracks > > were never established > > There can be only one answer: Ryko decided to call everything left off > the 1978 and 1986 releases "bonus tracks." Seems to me this approach, > which grants a certain legitimacy to the PVC album just because it was > there first, is as valid as any other, given that there wasn't quite > enough authoritative information for Ryko to proclaim a "director's > cut." The initial 1978 release of the album on Aura in the UK (which came out about the same time as the PVC release in the US), contained "Downs" and "Whole Lotta Shakin'", but didn't contain three songs from the PVC release ("Big Black Car", "For You", "Take Care"), and there were other albums from other countries with different track listings, so the PVC album was only definitive for those of us in the USA. Aura also released two Big Star singles in 1978 (with non-LP B-sides) Jesus Christ/Big Black Car and Kizza Me/Dream Lover, so the Ryko release combined all the songs from all the different releases. Also, thank you friends for the birthday wishes. I made it through most of the day yesterday without anyone making notice of it, which would have been just fine for me. Birthdays, just like top ten songs and books, used to be a lot better in the old days. - -Steve Happy to share a birthday with Kenny Rogers, Joe Strummer, and Jackie deShannon, as well as fellow loud-fan jfb. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:22:30 -0700 From: "Douglas Stanley" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Seeking home electronics advice Here's a nifty site that has way more info that you'll ever use. http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php You can sort the players alphabetically if you want. I've got a Sony S560D which I love. I've got a buddy that patches his Digital satellite into his computer and captures the feed to his hard disk. He can then burn to SVCD which plays on my Sony. The quality of SVCD is very good, much better than VCD or tape. That's how we captured my now-infamous Man Show appearance. If I was getting a new player today, however, I'd make sure it would play MP3s. BTW - Consumer Reports is not so hot on the RCA products. They report a higher than average failure rate. Doug S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:24:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... http://www.wordsmyth.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi?matchent=decimate&matchtype=exact but see http://www.bartleby.com/61/35/D0073500.html They do all sixteen dances! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I'M ONLY AS LARGE AS AN ANT AND I'M HIDING INSIDE YOUR CAR:: __cryptic placemat phrase, Madison WI, 1986__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:34:09 -0700 From: bbradley@namesecure.com Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck wow... all in the same week!??!? that's kinda cool. are loudfans just more likely to be whatever sign august is? hang on - researching - as it turns out, you are all at the ass-end of leo. let's see... this says: Warm, generous, open spirit; strong leaders, readily noticed whenever they enter a room; enjoy being center stage; regal appearance and often a dramatic personality; strong pride and occasionally arrogant; susceptible to flattery and easily embarrassed; good follow-through, will see a project to its conclusion; often artistic and creative; natural understanding of children; loyal and ardent lovers; may make fun of themselves, but won't appreciate others doing so. yup. that'd be a loudfan.... other stuff here: http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm - -- brianna ass-end of feces, er, pisces Intuitive, emotional, imaginative, artistic or musical; flows easily between the realms of the conscious and unconscious mind, dream life vivid and informative; naturally mystical; deep need to remain connected to spiritual life, though often not attached to traditional forms of worship; temptation to dependencies on others or on chemical substances; compassionate and strongly affected by color and the emotional environment; must learn how to protect the self from manipulators; adaptable, flexible, and creative. and somewhere else - really kinda freaky how dead-on this is: http://www.astrology-online.com/pisces.htm - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Winston [mailto:rwinston@tde.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 9:41 PM To: the ink that pongs Subject: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck Whoops, I forgot that I needed to wish a Happy Birthday to the Man Who Knows Everything There Is To Know About Pop Music, Mr. Steve Holtebeck. Happy Birthday, Steve!! I hope you had a good one, sparky. Also, allow me to Toast Mr. John Butland, since it's his birthday too. Here's to you, spanky. And I see that a certain mr. aaron mandel should've celebrated his birthday yesterday... Hmmm, it doesn't appear that he posted anything today. I hope you overdid the celebrating, spunky! Happy Birthday, one and all, including those I may've missed... Later. --Julie, your cruise director - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:52:13 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Seeking home electronics advice Doug S.: > That's how we captured my now-infamous Man Show appearance. Details, please. Does Fox use those phony stage mugs to drink beer so fast? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:33:18 -0700 From: Tim_Walters@digidesign.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music >I know many don't agree, but to my mind starting the album with "Thank >You Friends" would have been a Chiltonian act of cynical self-sabotage. >It's the song on THIRD that most anticipates the snarky attitude of LIKE >FLIES ON SHERBERT. It never even occurred to me that "Thank You Friends" might be sarcastic. What a depressing thought. I remember Jim Dickinson saying in an interview something along the lines of "I can't believe they left off 'Dream Lover'--that song is what the album's *about*." I'm also a big fan of the original PVC vinyl order, but I don't know if it's because it's better or if I'm just used to it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:22:29 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: [loud-fans] for wellwater fans WELLWATER WEBCAST ON 8/24 Log onto dcn.com to watch a LIVE webcast of Wellwater Conspiracy at 11:45 PST from The Casbah in San Diego, CA. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:37:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Tris McCall did not write a song about me On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 bbradley@namesecure.com wrote: > as it turns out, you are all at the ass-end of leo. let's see... this > says: > > Warm, generous, open spirit; strong leaders, readily noticed whenever they > enter a room; enjoy being center stage; regal appearance and often a > dramatic personality; strong pride and occasionally arrogant; susceptible to > flattery and easily embarrassed; good follow-through, will see a project to > its conclusion; often artistic and creative; natural understanding of > children; loyal and ardent lovers; may make fun of themselves, but won't > appreciate others doing so. > > other stuff here: http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm Well, I'm a Sagittarius...which purports to make me optimistic and freedom-loving, jovial and good-humored, honest and straightforward, intellectual and philosophical, but also blindly optimistic and careless, irresponsible and superficial, tactless and restless. I am supposed to have a "positive outlook on life, [and be] full of enterprise, energy, versatility, adventurousness and eagerness to extend experience beyond the physically familiar." Whether I know it or not, I "enjoy travelling and exploration" because my mind is "constantly open to new dimensions of thought." (Hey - I have that record!) It goes on, saying I'm ambitious, idealistic, trustworthy, and passionate about misspellings, verb tenses, and obscure linguistic issues - sorry, I meant passionate about justice. I'm supposed to be modest and religious. It goes on... /sagittar.htm, if anyone else was born near that time. (Rose is a Leo, btw - her birthday was Monday.) - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:58:16 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall did not write a song about me >> other stuff here: http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm Multi-F'd Jeffrey: > > Well, I'm a Sagittarius...which purports to make me optimistic and > freedom-loving, jovial and good-humored, honest and straightforward, > intellectual and philosophical, but also blindly optimistic and careless, > irresponsible and superficial, tactless and restless. > I'm a textbook Gemini -- or so my wife keeps telling me. I don't put much stock in Astrology (just another way of putting people in their stereotyped boxes IMHO), but the weird thing is, after reading this site, that Geminis are supposed to be prone to "pulmonary disorders such as...bronchitis". I'm a severe asthmatic. Cue Twilight Zone music... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:16:44 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... On 8/22/01, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >http://www.wordsmyth.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi?matchent=decimate&matchtype=exact > >but see > >http://www.bartleby.com/61/35/D0073500.html > >They do all sixteen dances! > >--Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Well, that's an easy game to play. Find a dictionary or dictionaries whose purpose is to describe the language as it is used rather than to prescribe how it should be used, and any usage documented there can be justified as "in the dictionary." The American Heritage dictionary referenced at bartleby.com can thus be used to support using the word "literally" to mean "figuratively." A better use of online and electronic dictionaries can be found at . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:33:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, John Cooper wrote: > On 8/22/01, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > > >http://www.wordsmyth.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi?matchent=decimate&matchtype=exact > > > >but see > > > >http://www.bartleby.com/61/35/D0073500.html > Well, that's an easy game to play. Find a dictionary or dictionaries > whose purpose is to describe the language as it is used rather than > to prescribe how it should be used, and any usage documented there > can be justified as "in the dictionary." Which is not at all what I'm saying. The suggestion, in posting an URL, is to read what's there - not to just blindly assume that I'm saying something is "in the dictionary" and therefore okay. The first entry notes that the primary meaning of "decimate" is the general one and that the older, more literal meaning is considered (by that dictionary) to be archaic. The second URL, however, notes that many readers (a significant minority) consider the more general usage of "decimate" to be a problem. A hell of a lot more nuanced than saying "it's in the dictionary." And no dictionary is intended to prescribe how the language should be used: that would be the function of style guides or handbooks. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Watson! Something's afoot...and it's on the end of my leg:: __Hemlock Stones__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:18:03 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey on 2001/08/22 Wed PM 02:33:24 MDT wrote: > And no dictionary is intended to prescribe how the language should be > used: that would be the function of style guides or handbooks. Really? Don't you think that sort of thing should be left to the parents? I wouldn't want MY kids learning to talk and/or write from some wandering style guide on a street corner. BTW, I don't believe in astrology, but I am a stereotypical textbook example of my sign (Virgo). Must go reorganize my CD collection, Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:52:14 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sorry Charlie... On 8/22/01, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Which is not at all what I'm saying. The suggestion, in posting an URL, is >to read what's there - Did that. Both links. >not to just blindly assume that I'm saying >something is "in the dictionary" and therefore okay. Well, since you didn't say anything at all explicitly, just posted two links and a "sorry Charlie" message title, I had no choice but to guess at what point you were trying to make. >The first entry notes >that the primary meaning of "decimate" is the general one and that the >older, more literal meaning is considered (by that dictionary) to be >archaic. The second URL, however, notes that many readers (a significant >minority) consider the more general usage of "decimate" to be a problem. No, it doesn't. The AH refers to its "Usage Panel" of celebrities and academics, who vote their opinions and/or gut feelings about what is correct usage. Readers as a whole are neither queried nor tabulated. Specifically, the second URL says: "Sixty-six percent of the Usage Panel accepts this extension in the sentence 'The Jewish population of Germany was decimated by the war,' even though it is common knowledge that the number of Jews killed was much greater than a tenth of the original population...." So in this example, the majority of the panel have no problem with the more general usage. Since you didn't elucidate your point, there was no way to tell whether you were approving the opinion of the majority or the minority. And since I find the opinion of the majority of the panel here very surprising, I guessed that this was the opinion you were pointing out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:25:37 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] eat my tuna, star kisser On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Roger Winston wrote: yeah, i started having the descriptive/prescriptive arguscussion about fifteen years ago, when dictionaries started listing "supercede" as a variant spelling of "supersede." > BTW, I don't believe in astrology, but I am a stereotypical textbook > example of my sign (Virgo). i'll balance all the positive correlations by noting that while some stuff from my sign (cancer, the eater of flesh) was generic enough to be applicable, some of it was so laughably awry that i guffawed aloud. (organized? prone to switching loyalties to follow fashionable trends?? like puting a "c" in the word "supersede???") i find it very interesting, though, that a couple of the smartest people i know take at least some aspects of astrology more seriously than i would have expected. i'm still an empiricist, though. - -- d. np dire straits _making movies_ - ------------------------------------------------- Mayo-Wells Media Workshop dmw@ http://www.mwmw.com mwmw.com Web Development * Multimedia Consulting * Hosting ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:56:49 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) Ok, his name wasn't John. His last name was "Monde" or "Mond" maybe...the album was produced by Adam Schlesinger (probably misspelled) of Fountains of Wayne, of whom I am not a fan. I think that it just came out, or is about to come out, but I'm not sure. This album was pretty mainstream sounding, but also very good, from what I heard in the record store. By "mainstream" I mean "mainstream like Semisonic." Not "mainstream like Korn." Anyway, anyone know what the album might be? My memory isn't what it used to be. BTW, I was reading YM while waiting for my haircut yesterday. I look like a businessman now, but that's ok. Anyway, an ad disguised as an article touts some MP3 player, "listen to Korn and the Donnas." Not "Korn or the Donnas" but "Korn and the Donnas" so I conclude that they share a fan base. But what is that fan-base, I wonder. I thought all the Donnas' fans were 40 year old guys who still live with their moms. Do they like Korn too?? I wonder. I also wonder, since I now live in a cocoon without television or mainstream radio, if "I Still Live With My Moms" is a nationwide hit? Is it on MTV? Are the kids digging it? If ever there was a song that oughta be a breakout hit, "Moms" is it. I'd heard it on my little speakers at work, while listening to WFMU, but didn't comprehend its greatness until I got my CD from WFMU for my fundraiser donation and got to blast it in the basement. It's kind of like Young MC meets Basehead, which strikes me as a match made in heaven, now that I think about it... - --dana, Sag. like Jeff np: India Adams/"Comfort Me With Apples" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:12:01 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) In a message dated 8/22/01 4:01:52 PM, dana-boy@juno.com writes: << Ok, his name wasn't John. His last name was "Monde" or "Mond" maybe...the album was produced by Adam Schlesinger (probably misspelled) of Fountains of Wayne, of whom I am not a fan. I think that it just came out, or is about to come out, but I'm not sure. >> Schlesinger (spelled correctly) also produced the new Verve Pipe album (to no real advantage), so at least he's staying busy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:28:20 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) >Ok, his name wasn't John. His last name was "Monde" or "Mond" >maybe...the album was produced by Adam Schlesinger (probably misspelled) >of Fountains of Wayne, of whom I am not a fan. I think that it just came >out, or is about to come out, but I'm not sure. Adam-mon also plays guitar on the now-out Ivy album, LONG DISTANCE, just so you know. No relation to Operation Ivy, Andy "I have a reputation to suppress." - --Ely Zero III ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Dana L Paoli wrote: > Ok, his name wasn't John. His last name was "Monde" or "Mond" > maybe...the album was produced by Adam Schlesinger (probably > misspelled) of Fountains of Wayne, of whom I am not a fan. I think > that it just came out, or is about to come out, but I'm not sure. A google search on "adam schlesinger produced" suggests it's David Mead. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:18:00 -0400 From: Dana L Paoli Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) A google search on "adam schlesinger produced" suggests it's David Mead. >>>>>>>>>>>> Eureka!!! That's it. Thank god for google. (recently I managed to google search the author/title of "The Adversary" based only on my half-remembered memory of a plot summary that I'd read a month ago. I think that googling: "french parking garage murder doctor" got it, though it might have been something similar.) Anyway, yes, David Mead. A little mainstream (esp. in the vocals) but quite nice. I think that many list members might like it. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:29:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John somebody (ns) On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Schlesinger (spelled correctly) also produced the new Verve Pipe album (to no > real advantage), so at least he's staying busy. Well. This message shoots to shit my theory that JRT and Mark Staples were actually the same person - or more accurately, that Staples was a fictitious creation of JRT whose fit of pique somehow transferred to its creator, causing JRT to be silent as well. Then again, perhaps Mark Staples created J.R. Taylor...has anyone ever seen them in a room together? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::To be the center of the universe, don't orbit things:: __Scott Miller__ ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #207 *******************************