From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V1 #206 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, August 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Seeking home electronics advice [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music At 04:41 PM 8/21/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Chilton and Dickinson were only able to agree on a running order >for four songs (the first three and the last one). > > "The whole thing made sense, at one point, on paper," stated >Dickinson. "It was very cyclic. 'Thank You Friends' is supposed to be >first, and 'Take Care' is supposed to be last." The fact that, despite this statement appearing in the liner notes, the Ryko disc starts with "Kizza Me" alone proves that the disc has some fundamental sequencing flaws. (It also seems weird that "Dream Lover" is a bonus track for no other reason than the liner notes acknowledge that the album was originally supposed to be called BEALE STREET GREEN, a line in this song.) Oh, well, this album is why CD players are programmable. I still think this is the best version of the disc simply because it's the most complete. S - -- "Cows are _not_ goats, thus they are not worth milking." --Steve Durben, 8/20/01 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:00:18 -0400 From: Dan Schmidt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music Stewart Mason writes: | The fact that, despite this statement appearing in the liner notes, the | Ryko disc starts with "Kizza Me" alone proves that the disc has some | fundamental sequencing flaws. (It also seems weird that "Dream Lover" is a | bonus track for no other reason than the liner notes acknowledge that the | album was originally supposed to be called BEALE STREET GREEN, a line in | this song.) I dunno, Guided By Voices albums often seem to be named after songs that don't make it onto the album. | Oh, well, this album is why CD players are programmable. I | still think this is the best version of the disc simply because it's the | most complete. Do you have a preferred sequence? - -- http://www.dfan.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:04:29 EDT From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Top 10 Distractions from Real Life In a message dated 8/21/01 2:13:45 PM, jenor@csd.uwm.edu writes: << At this point I feel compelled to mention that I'm not suggesting these characters should be holing up with Shakespeare and Joyce, discussing postmodernism while sipping lattes, pinkies extended. But the ongoing notion that if one *is* interested in Shakespeare and Joyce, one cannot also be socially skilled, have a sense of humor, and enjoy popular culture (whether in its more polished or overtly trashy forms) still seems prevalent. (Which is why I felt compelled to mention it.) >> hmmmm.....certainly wasn't the case when I was an English major at a midwest university in the mid-70s...... However, since I have been somewhat away from academia for some time, and I have two young children....what can *I* do to make sure they do not succumb to this prevalent pressure????? Left ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:28:24 -0500 From: Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Top 10, Books this time Michael proffers a list, doug comments: > 8. Daughter of Silence, Morris West > 9. The Edge of Sadness, Edwin O'Connor don't know a thing about either, which doesn't mean i'll assume they were good. <><><><><><><> I'm unfamiliar with the title charting here, but I believe Morris West is famous as the author of a portentuous piece of literary horseshit entitled _The Shoes of the Fisherman_, wherein the pope went undercover to find out how the common folk wised. The other guy played Archie Bunker on "All In The Family". goddamn irish all smell the same, - --DMc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:43:41 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Top 10, Books this time In a message dated 8/21/01 6:23:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dennis_McGreevy@praxair.com writes: > > 9. The Edge of Sadness, Edwin O'Connor > > don't know a thing about either, which doesn't mean i'll assume they were > good. > > <><><><><><><> > > I'm unfamiliar with the title charting here, but I believe Morris West is > famous > as the author of a portentuous piece of literary horseshit entitled _The > Shoes > of the Fisherman_, wherein the pope went undercover to find out how the > common > folk wised. > > The other guy played Archie Bunker on "All In The Family". > Don't know Morris West or Edwin O' Conner, but it was Carrol O' Conner who was on All In The Family. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:45:58 -0400 From: Richard Gagnon Subject: [loud-fans] Seeking home electronics advice glenn wrote: >Michael's two book-lists (which are particularly evocative for me since the >1961 one happens to include one of my favorite books in the world) made me I'd say 99.9% likelihood that it's Franny and Zooey and a billion-to-one odds that it's Tropic of Cancer. Just read Hornby's article in the New Yorker to get up to speed on what you've all been yammering about. It doesn't offend me at all, come to think of it (I'm generally not that keen on Hornby's writing). I certainly don't feel too bad about a little humor for the self-mutilating fan who shares her pain on amazon.com; maybe I'm too selective about parceling out my empathy. ;) I have a couple of technical questions for you well-informed folks... One: I picked up, on the cheap, a "digital video cd" Video Collection of Bryan Ferry + Roxy Music. It seems legit, having been released by Virgin (in the US) a couple of years back. The jacket isn't a laser copy or any such thing, and it doesn't hail from Hong Kong, but it's surprisingly (and perhaps suspiciously) poor in technical details, such as system requirements or some sort of instructions. My disc drive reads it, but the data is suffixed .dat, .vcd, .dyv and .c8 Does anyone know what I need to read this thing? Which leads me to my next question: Since my cd player conked out a few months ago and I'm reluctant to replace it with yet another basic player, I thought I'd upgrade to a dvd/cd/cr-r/mp3 player for my budding home entertainment console. I've spoken to friends, asked for recommendations, and I've come away with some confident thumbs-up for RCA models, so far. I don't want anything fancy, really, since I suspect that dvd players are something of a parity products once you rise above the truly low-range cheapie knockoff models. Any recommendations? I'm sure there's less of a moral dilemma involved in this than thornier issues such as cultural imperialism and rapper naming.;) Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:44:33 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Seeking home electronics advice At Tuesday 8/21/2001 08:45 PM -0400, Richard Gagnon wrote: >One: I picked up, on the cheap, a "digital video cd" Video Collection of >Bryan Ferry + Roxy Music. It seems legit, having been released by Virgin >(in the US) a couple of years back. The jacket isn't a laser copy or any >such thing, and it doesn't hail from Hong Kong, but it's surprisingly (and >perhaps suspiciously) poor in technical details, such as system >requirements or some sort of instructions. My disc drive reads it, but the >data is suffixed .dat, .vcd, .dyv and .c8 Does anyone know what I need to >read this thing? Hmmm, sounds like it might be a Video CD (VCD), which are popular in Asia. Some DVD players will play them, especially the cheapie players that come from Asia. My chinese-made Apex one will. It should be pretty easy to find out from the literature if a particular player will play them or not. Be aware that the picture quality/resolution on VCDs is about equal to that of VHS tapes, not DVDs. >Which leads me to my next question: Since my cd player conked out a few >months ago and I'm reluctant to replace it with yet another basic player, >I thought I'd upgrade to a dvd/cd/cr-r/mp3 player for my budding home >entertainment console. I've spoken to friends, asked for recommendations, >and I've come away with some confident thumbs-up for RCA models, so far. I >don't want anything fancy, really, since I suspect that dvd players are >something of a parity products once you rise above the truly low-range >cheapie knockoff models. I don't know of anyone who has an RCA, so I can't say anything about them. I've had good luck with Toshiba's, both low and high end. I don't think they have any that will play VCDs or MP3s though. I think it's still fairly rare to find one that will, though my cheapie Asian Apex one (again) will. I don't like Pioneer players, and I once had a bad experience with a rented Panasonic eating my Blue Oyster Cult Live 1976 DVD and not coughing it back up for days, so I tend to stay away from them too. Also, you might want to make sure that whatever you get plays CD-RWs as well as CD-Rs. I wouldn't be afraid to buy almost any low-end player, though if you have a really good TV you should probably stay away from the real cheapo ones, because the picture quality isn't as good on them. My favorite source for home theater info is the Home Theater Forum: http://www.hometheaterforum.com Check the Hardware Forum. Though keep in mind that most of the people there are even more rabid about this stuff than I am. For equipment reviews, check out http://www.audioreview.com, as well as the old http://www.cnet.com. Be having fun. Later. --Rog - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:52:42 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] post re list-approved music > So that's why I find it mysterious that Ryko labeled "Dream Lover" a bonus > track: how can there be bonus tracks to an album whose official tracks > were never established There can be only one answer: Ryko decided to call everything left off the 1978 and 1986 releases "bonus tracks." Seems to me this approach, which grants a certain legitimacy to the PVC album just because it was there first, is as valid as any other, given that there wasn't quite enough authoritative information for Ryko to proclaim a "director's cut." > and by what criteria would "Dream Lover" be > considered one of those bogus bonus tracks - since the album's own liner > notes show the producer of the sessions designating it as one of the > tracks recorded for the album? But I've always presumed that all five of the "bonus tracks" were recorded as part of the sessions for the album. I believe "Downs" is also mentioned during Dickinson's discussion of the sessions. I would imagine that, if THIRD had actually gotten a release, all 19 tracks wouldn't have been included. As far as I know, there's no info on which would have been dropped, probably because Chilton and Dickinson never got that far. > Yep - but he did agree on the opening tracks and the ending. Curiously, > despite Dickinson's comments above, the intended second and third tracks > aren't mentioned, and the sequence does not begin with "Thank You > Friends." I know many don't agree, but to my mind starting the album with "Thank You Friends" would have been a Chiltonian act of cynical self-sabotage. It's the song on THIRD that most anticipates the snarky attitude of LIKE FLIES ON SHERBERT. > > Generally, I like the PVC > > sequencing (much much better than the Ryko sequencing), and tend to give > > it a certain historical legitimacy for that reason alone. - Dan > > You mean because Chilton said he liked it? No, just because I like it. I really don't know anything about who put the PVC release together, in what spirit it was done, and which artists were consulted, if any. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:41:09 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck Whoops, I forgot that I needed to wish a Happy Birthday to the Man Who Knows Everything There Is To Know About Pop Music, Mr. Steve Holtebeck. Happy Birthday, Steve!! I hope you had a good one, sparky. Also, allow me to Toast Mr. John Butland, since it's his birthday too. Here's to you, spanky. And I see that a certain mr. aaron mandel should've celebrated his birthday yesterday... Hmmm, it doesn't appear that he posted anything today. I hope you overdid the celebrating, spunky! Happy Birthday, one and all, including those I may've missed... Later. --Julie, your cruise director - -- When toads are not enough: http://www.reignoffrogs.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:46:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Roger Winston wrote: > Whoops, I forgot that I needed to wish a Happy Birthday to the Man Who > Knows Everything There Is To Know About Pop Music, Mr. Steve > Holtebeck. Happy Birthday, Steve!! I hope you had a good one, sparky. > > Also, allow me to Toast Mr. John Butland, since it's his birthday > too. Here's to you, spanky. > > And I see that a certain mr. aaron mandel should've celebrated his birthday > yesterday... Hmmm, it doesn't appear that he posted anything today. I hope > you overdid the celebrating, spunky! I would second all these birthday wishes, but isn't it obvious that birthdays used to be a whole lot better than they are nowadays? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:57:50 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck In a message dated 8/22/01 12:42:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rwinston@tde.com writes: > Whoops, I forgot that I needed to wish a Happy Birthday to the Man Who > Knows Everything There Is To Know About Pop Music, Mr. Steve > Holtebeck. Happy Birthday, Steve!! I hope you had a good one, sparky. > > Also, allow me to Toast Mr. John Butland, since it's his birthday > too. Here's to you, spanky. > > And a happy B-Day from me, too. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:58:47 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Man-But and Beck In a message dated 8/22/01 12:42:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rwinston@tde.com writes: > And I see that a certain mr. aaron mandel should've celebrated his birthday > yesterday... Hmmm, it doesn't appear that he posted anything today. I hope > you overdid the celebrating, spunky! > > And one to you Andy. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:09:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] what would Jellybean Benitez do? a/k/a a parade of nails avoiding a hammer Question for informed Loudfans (like, in this case, probably Aaron Mandel): what is the origin of the band name Nothing Painted Blue? Also: said band have a new album completed, unfortunately without label currently, while leader Franklin Bruno has a new one coming out on Absolutely Kosher (source of this info) in March called _A Cat May Look at a Queen_. un dos tres cuatro! - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: The possibility of Klingon slash fiction :: fills me with mild apprehension. __ Michael Quinion __ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:13:54 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] what would Jellybean Benitez do? a/k/a a parade of nails avoiding a hammer At 12:09 AM 8/22/01 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Question for informed Loudfans (like, in this case, probably Aaron >Mandel): what is the origin of the band name Nothing Painted Blue? A particularly unfathomable line Ann-Margret snarls in the generally unfathomable KITTEN WITH A WHIP. Or maybe it just strikes me as unfathomable because I spent the entire screening staring at Ann-Marget's ass. I got my priorities, Stewart - -- "Cows are _not_ goats, thus they are not worth milking." --Steve Durben, 8/20/01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:51:48 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Seeking home electronics advice OK, this thing doesn't burn CDs, but it does just about everything else - http://www.avdeals.com/malata_dvd.htm Made in China, of course. - - Steve __________ Two leaders of the offshore drilling industry who serve as officers of the International Association of Drilling Contractors were among 16 recently appointed by President George W. Bush to the Commission on Ocean Policy, a national group charged with evaluating ocean and coastal activities and reporting recommendations to the President and Congress in 18 months. - Oil and Gas Online, 07/24/01 ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V1 #206 *******************************